Collision detection is a sweet feature but it also uses resources.
I really like how AoC is handling this, which also includes the mechanics that if your sword don't touch the enemy it wont be a hit. Best thing in AoC together with the music.
But on the other hand if it means that fewer people could be in the same place without lag I am not so sure it is worth it. It really depends on how much it actually takes.
The third issue is that the game needs to be designed so that a jerk or 2 can't block places. Anyone remember when people in AoC blocked the auction house with Mammoths? Lineage solved this by allowing PvP in the areas where that was possible even on PvE servers. Some kind of mechanics for this problem must also exist.
I voted that I don't care if it is in or not but the truth is that I am more uncertain if it is worth it or not. I don't know how it would affect the game or not, but I am sure ANET has thought about it.
If it poses no problem and uses no reasons everyone would want it but it is not quite that easy.
But on the other hand if it means that fewer people could be in the same place without lag I am not so sure it is worth it. It really depends on how much it actually takes.
darkfall had 10k players on their world, and EVERYTHING was checked against collision, even mobs, and there was no lag. If they removed CD because of technical limitations they should take their blog down and rather code crap and innovate before it's too late and the title becomes WoW/WAR 2.0.
GW2's main feature is mass pvp so having this option would be a bad idea. Now if the fights were on a smaller scale, then yea it's a sweet option.
But I'm not sure if the Havoc engine could support it anyway.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
GW2's main feature is mass pvp so having this option would be a bad idea.
nonsense. again, darkfall has mass PvP and CD. there is absolutely no reason to NOT implement CD other than being lazy a la blizzard/mythic. the removal of CD completely ruins the game.
darkfall had 10k players on their world, and EVERYTHING was checked against collision, even mobs, and there was no lag. If they removed CD because of technical limitations they should take their blog down and rather code crap and innovate before it's too late and the title becomes WoW/WAR 2.0.
Don't take this the wrong way but DF don't exactly have good looking graphics.
And collision detection isn't exactly innovative, MMOs have had them for a long time. Not having them isn't more innovative either of course but that is kinda besides the point here.
Don't take this the wrong way but DF don't exactly have good looking graphics.
neither has GW2 or GW1 for that matter. the difference here is that in GW1 and GW2 (as arena.net addmitted in their design manifesto) use their artits power to make shitty gfx look good. and there's nothing wrong with that, mind you.
it begs the question though what graphics have to do with CD?
And collision detection isn't exactly innovative, MMOs have had them for a long time. Not having them isn't more innovative either of course but that is kinda besides the point here.
well then there's even less of absolutely no reason not to have CD in the game!
Originally posted by rwittmaack neither has GW2 or GW1 for that matter. the difference here is that in GW1 and GW2 (as arena.net addmitted in their design manifesto) use their artits power to make shitty gfx look good. and there's nothing wrong with that, mind you. It begs the question though what graphics have to do with CD?
Gw1 have very dated graphics true. GW2s is average but with good art. But the animations of GW2 is pretty advanced. DFs graphics and GW2 still isn't near eachother, DF is a few years old and was not top even at release. GW1 were really good at release but they cut other corners to make that happen like no jumping to mention one thing.
Still, if you want large scaled PvP battles you do need to to cut the number of information you need to send some way. CDs is one possibility to do this since it do cuts down the information you need to send.
Also GW2 have no monthly fees so cutting down on all information they can makes sense for that.
As I said, I am not really against CDs but I would like to hear ANETs reason before judging if they should be in the game or not.
As I said, I am not really against CDs but I would like to hear ANETs reason before judging if they should be in the game or not.
fair enough, however I don't think that's even relevant. removing the CD from PvP is removing the substantial from PvP, as in there won't be any competitve matches, no money, no tourneys, no serious PvPing etc. like in GW1 simply because of this little feature missing.
fair enough, however I don't think that's even relevant. removing the CD from PvP is removing the substantial from PvP, as in there won't be any competitve matches, no money, no tourneys, no serious PvPing etc. like in GW1 simply because of this little feature missing.
I am not so sure about that.
For one thing you have no healer to take out first, that fact is actually pretty important in this case.
What I want to hear is how much it would affect the RvRvR. How many more players can you get into an area before lag with or without CDs?
Before I know that I can't really answer if it is a good idea to cutting it or not, and that is the reason I voted that I didn't care (there were no unsure, need more info option).
fair enough, however I don't think that's even relevant. removing the CD from PvP is removing the substantial from PvP, as in there won't be any competitve matches, no money, no tourneys, no serious PvPing etc. like in GW1 simply because of this little feature missing.
I am not so sure about that.
For one thing you have no healer to take out first, that fact is actually pretty important in this case.
What I want to hear is how much it would affect the RvRvR. How many more players can you get into an area before lag with or without CDs?
Before I know that I can't really answer if it is a good idea to cutting it or not, and that is the reason I voted that I didn't care (there were no unsure, need more info option).
and i'm saying you're working this case from the wrong side. CD should be tantamount and the game build around it. the question shouldn't be "what can we do to reduce lag" but "what can we pull off with cool stuff (including cd) enabled?" that's what's called innovation. stripping a game down to it's bare sceleton and then declare victory is something every 10 y old can do and something we see in about every game that was released the past decade. +
apart from that, seeing that darkfall can pull it of, i see no reason for GW2 not to, except the coders being lazy.
If you think ANet coders are lazy then you're simply out of your mind.
They've completely revamped the field in a number of typical MMO areas with their new and different features. Laziness would have been doing it as everybody does. Besides, GW had CD, it was a design decision to not implement it for GW2, simple as that.
GW2 will have enormous battles with 1000+ people running around in an area, I doubt you'll see that in DF.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you think ANet coders are lazy then you're simply out of your mind.
They've completely revamped the field in a number of typical MMO areas with their new and different features. Laziness would have been doing it as everybody does. Besides, GW had CD, it was a design decision to not implement it for GW2, simple as that.
GW2 will have enormous battles with 1000+ people running around in an area, I doubt you'll see that in DF.
WHY can't we have a CD system that only blocks ENEMY units?...That would be easy. Easy to use, you can still hide behind the blockers* in pvp even if you where in front of them (they simply let you trough ofcours, but without the animations...=P).
-There would be no problems in towns. We are all friendly units in towns after all. (no blocking the doorway too)
-No problems with masses. Friendly units can move freely when they are around friendly units.
-Should be not too hard to implement, if you make it work like the attack system (you normally can't attack friendly units), and if the CD system itself works decently.
-No problems attacking mobs because someone is in your way, since said friendly unit isn't CD'ed.
Only downside, it is slightly less realistic then full CD...^.^, but i think it's a good compromise.
It's kinda cruel to kill the innocent monsters standing in the fields picking daisies. -GW2-
After playing Elder Scrolls I got hooked on no tab targeting combat system.
After playing AoC I got hooked on no tab targeting, collision detection and splash melee damage.
After playing Darkfall I got hooked on no tab targeting, collision detection, splash damage and FRIENDLY FIRE!
Especially friendly fire adds so much to PVP that I dont know if I get ever get back to targeting, running through characters with no friendly fire, that kind of PVP feels very shallow and childish atm so I'm not sure I'll enjoy GW2 PVP combat system, we'll see.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
CD always looks awful in games, you either have two players running against each other face to face and no one moving forward, or you have players slidding off each other like they have a glass box around them.
If they need to have CD then have it so it slows the speed at which you move by 50% but still allows you to run through other players, add in some abilities such as knock backs that can only be used in this situation and you have a system that better IMHO.
If you think ANet coders are lazy then you're simply out of your mind.
They've completely revamped the field in a number of typical MMO areas with their new and different features. Laziness would have been doing it as everybody does. Besides, GW had CD, it was a design decision to not implement it for GW2, simple as that.
GW2 will have enormous battles with 1000+ people running around in an area, I doubt you'll see that in DF.
its exactly what happened in DF
I seriously doubt that DF even has 1000+ active players on a server, let alone 1000+ players actively participating in a siege or massive battle without lag.
On topic: regarding collision detection, I don't think it's fully absent, as far as I read their statements it was about character collision/body block that was absent. I mean, you also have projectile collision detection, and blindside crits that are present in GW2.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I love collision detection for PvP, the problem is that it allows players to grief each other through bottlenecks in pve, whether that be a doorway, or some sorta natural terrain.
The prob with body block is that it's just as unrealistic as moving through mobs/players. While you realistically can't expect to run through creatures you'll have an equally hard time to remain stationary and block a 350 pound Charr in battlearmor that has decided he wants to go past you or an asura dodging around you. So thanks, but no thanks.
I agree with this. I know many players like it because it adds strategy or seems more realistic, but it really has to be done right, otherwise it is just more trouble than it's worth and nothing more than a means to grief other players, in my opinion. How many times have you seen a tank tank in PvP games? Ever had tanks line up so that nobody can get around them? It's either too hard to keep players from just going around you or you have to sit in a doorway most of the time. I enjoy collision detection in games like TF2, but for MMORPGs with open world PvP, it seems kind of silly to me.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If they can make CD work where it doesn't allow friendlies to grief or cause performance issues, I'm all for it. It adds an element of strategy to pvp and pve. Even if the CD was something of a movement decrease as you run through an enemy, I'd be ok with that.
Honestly I am for it everywhere with in reason. I really dont want to get stuck in door ways but at the same time runing through everything has never been much fun to me. i rather deal with the con of collision than walk through everything.
We already know there won't be in PvE now (at least, according to the vids). Haven't seen any clues as for PvP yet tho.
then what about the shield block?....it's a skill i know....but, it might be CD-ish.
Things like the effects of Shield Block seem to imply that there is limited collision detection, at least when it comes to certain effects. If you look at some of the videos out there as El Lion said it doesn't really appear to be present. Wartower Spotlight's first video comes to mind actually, there is a scene early on with a lot of Charr battling a lot of monsters in an arena setting. I suggest looking for that since I cant really recognize how much of that borders on CD and how much is just normal skill targeting. And no idea on PvP.
Comments
Collision detection is a sweet feature but it also uses resources.
I really like how AoC is handling this, which also includes the mechanics that if your sword don't touch the enemy it wont be a hit. Best thing in AoC together with the music.
But on the other hand if it means that fewer people could be in the same place without lag I am not so sure it is worth it. It really depends on how much it actually takes.
The third issue is that the game needs to be designed so that a jerk or 2 can't block places. Anyone remember when people in AoC blocked the auction house with Mammoths? Lineage solved this by allowing PvP in the areas where that was possible even on PvE servers. Some kind of mechanics for this problem must also exist.
I voted that I don't care if it is in or not but the truth is that I am more uncertain if it is worth it or not. I don't know how it would affect the game or not, but I am sure ANET has thought about it.
If it poses no problem and uses no reasons everyone would want it but it is not quite that easy.
GW2's main feature is mass pvp so having this option would be a bad idea. Now if the fights were on a smaller scale, then yea it's a sweet option.
But I'm not sure if the Havoc engine could support it anyway.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Don't take this the wrong way but DF don't exactly have good looking graphics.
And collision detection isn't exactly innovative, MMOs have had them for a long time. Not having them isn't more innovative either of course but that is kinda besides the point here.
Collision detection is problematic.
Every MMO up to now that had collision detection had its lag increased by 50%.
Its simply too strenious for the system.
And honestly it is not worth the price.
AOC, WAR ... after 10 minutes you dont even notice C.D. and its almost totaly useless.
so, PLEASE NO
Gw1 have very dated graphics true. GW2s is average but with good art. But the animations of GW2 is pretty advanced. DFs graphics and GW2 still isn't near eachother, DF is a few years old and was not top even at release. GW1 were really good at release but they cut other corners to make that happen like no jumping to mention one thing.
Still, if you want large scaled PvP battles you do need to to cut the number of information you need to send some way. CDs is one possibility to do this since it do cuts down the information you need to send.
Also GW2 have no monthly fees so cutting down on all information they can makes sense for that.
As I said, I am not really against CDs but I would like to hear ANETs reason before judging if they should be in the game or not.
fair enough, however I don't think that's even relevant. removing the CD from PvP is removing the substantial from PvP, as in there won't be any competitve matches, no money, no tourneys, no serious PvPing etc. like in GW1 simply because of this little feature missing.
I am not so sure about that.
For one thing you have no healer to take out first, that fact is actually pretty important in this case.
What I want to hear is how much it would affect the RvRvR. How many more players can you get into an area before lag with or without CDs?
Before I know that I can't really answer if it is a good idea to cutting it or not, and that is the reason I voted that I didn't care (there were no unsure, need more info option).
and i'm saying you're working this case from the wrong side. CD should be tantamount and the game build around it. the question shouldn't be "what can we do to reduce lag" but "what can we pull off with cool stuff (including cd) enabled?" that's what's called innovation. stripping a game down to it's bare sceleton and then declare victory is something every 10 y old can do and something we see in about every game that was released the past decade. +
apart from that, seeing that darkfall can pull it of, i see no reason for GW2 not to, except the coders being lazy.
If you think ANet coders are lazy then you're simply out of your mind.
They've completely revamped the field in a number of typical MMO areas with their new and different features. Laziness would have been doing it as everybody does. Besides, GW had CD, it was a design decision to not implement it for GW2, simple as that.
GW2 will have enormous battles with 1000+ people running around in an area, I doubt you'll see that in DF.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
its exactly what happened in DF
OK..... I don't get it. -.-
WHY can't we have a CD system that only blocks ENEMY units?...That would be easy. Easy to use, you can still hide behind the blockers* in pvp even if you where in front of them (they simply let you trough ofcours, but without the animations...=P).
-There would be no problems in towns. We are all friendly units in towns after all. (no blocking the doorway too)
-No problems with masses. Friendly units can move freely when they are around friendly units.
-Should be not too hard to implement, if you make it work like the attack system (you normally can't attack friendly units), and if the CD system itself works decently.
-No problems attacking mobs because someone is in your way, since said friendly unit isn't CD'ed.
Only downside, it is slightly less realistic then full CD...^.^, but i think it's a good compromise.
It's kinda cruel to kill the innocent monsters standing in the fields picking daisies. -GW2-
I guess my question is-how is a collision detection put into the software program of the game?
After playing Elder Scrolls I got hooked on no tab targeting combat system.
After playing AoC I got hooked on no tab targeting, collision detection and splash melee damage.
After playing Darkfall I got hooked on no tab targeting, collision detection, splash damage and FRIENDLY FIRE!
Especially friendly fire adds so much to PVP that I dont know if I get ever get back to targeting, running through characters with no friendly fire, that kind of PVP feels very shallow and childish atm so I'm not sure I'll enjoy GW2 PVP combat system, we'll see.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
CD always looks awful in games, you either have two players running against each other face to face and no one moving forward, or you have players slidding off each other like they have a glass box around them.
If they need to have CD then have it so it slows the speed at which you move by 50% but still allows you to run through other players, add in some abilities such as knock backs that can only be used in this situation and you have a system that better IMHO.
I seriously doubt that DF even has 1000+ active players on a server, let alone 1000+ players actively participating in a siege or massive battle without lag.
On topic: regarding collision detection, I don't think it's fully absent, as far as I read their statements it was about character collision/body block that was absent. I mean, you also have projectile collision detection, and blindside crits that are present in GW2.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree with this. I know many players like it because it adds strategy or seems more realistic, but it really has to be done right, otherwise it is just more trouble than it's worth and nothing more than a means to grief other players, in my opinion. How many times have you seen a tank tank in PvP games? Ever had tanks line up so that nobody can get around them? It's either too hard to keep players from just going around you or you have to sit in a doorway most of the time. I enjoy collision detection in games like TF2, but for MMORPGs with open world PvP, it seems kind of silly to me.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If they can make CD work where it doesn't allow friendlies to grief or cause performance issues, I'm all for it. It adds an element of strategy to pvp and pve. Even if the CD was something of a movement decrease as you run through an enemy, I'd be ok with that.
If there is no CD, so be it.
Honestly I am for it everywhere with in reason. I really dont want to get stuck in door ways but at the same time runing through everything has never been much fun to me. i rather deal with the con of collision than walk through everything.
We already know there won't be in PvE now (at least, according to the vids). Haven't seen any clues as for PvP yet tho.
Eaglix
then what about the shield block?....it's a skill i know....but, it might be CD-ish.
It's kinda cruel to kill the innocent monsters standing in the fields picking daisies. -GW2-
Things like the effects of Shield Block seem to imply that there is limited collision detection, at least when it comes to certain effects. If you look at some of the videos out there as El Lion said it doesn't really appear to be present. Wartower Spotlight's first video comes to mind actually, there is a scene early on with a lot of Charr battling a lot of monsters in an arena setting. I suggest looking for that since I cant really recognize how much of that borders on CD and how much is just normal skill targeting. And no idea on PvP.