It seems that some people can only think in binary terms, good-bad, for-against, fans-cynics.
If you're a fan, you apparently can't have criticism of some aspects a game, because criticism+enjoyment don't mix.
Because if you have criticism, that makes you a non-fan, a cynic, and those aren't apparently allowed to also be able to enjoy the game.
Really nice way of thinking: so in the same binary thinking, that means that everything that isn't a full success - on a WoW standard base, that is - is automatically a major fail. Nice to know.
People think this way because people like geldonytch were on this site everyday shooting down viable complaints saying we were all over reacting, and that everything would be okay at launch. It's obvious that it's not, seeing as even HE is here complaining about the game now. And he also has a viable complaint. Requiring mats higher up the tree then the item you're making is ridiculous and shoddy planning. But what do I know, I'm just a "hater".
It seems that some people can only think in binary terms, good-bad, for-against, fans-cynics.
It's more like, "hey, I hate the game, oh look there's somebody who's been largely for the game now pointing out some problems as he sees them.... PROOF! I HAVE PROOF! YOU SHOULD HATE THE GAME AS MUCH AS ME! I AM VINDICATED! "
Uh, no, I still think the game is great and worth playing, I'm just not such a blind fanboy as to not see its faults.
I think this is unfair, Geldonyetich.
Believe it or not, many, if not most, of the people complaining about this game on this forum are FFXIV fans who really wanted to like this game. In many cases, they have even supported SE, and the game, by purchasing the game and subscribing to it. The only difference being, that whereas a portion of the fan base is willing to be tolerant and accept it's short comings, standing loyally by the brand despite it's flaws, others are not so forgiving. They expected much more from a brand as highly thought of and polished as the Final Fantasy franchise.
I could see this as being the case, but there's a fundamental diffrence that the label "FFXIV fan" is a tad too inclusive for me.
For example, there's the "FFXIV fan" who has a massive amount of expectations about the game and is disappinted when the game doesn't live up to them. You see, the trouble there is that expectations are easy, while creating games is hard, and inevitably if you hold a ton of expectations up against a game, you will be disappointed the overwhelming majority of hte time.
On the other hand, here's the "FFXIV fan" who went into the beta/retail without these expectations, gave them what they consdier a fair shake on a relatively neutral set of expectations and found that, despite the fact that the game is as imperfect as most things wrought by human hands, they still enjoy the game, and therein is how they decided to become a fan.
I sympathise with dashed hopes, I really do, but I have to say that I've seen in just about any game that it's just not a good policy to count your chickens before they've hatched. I encourage anyone who has found FFXIV disappointed them by not living up to their expectations to let those expectations go and try again, and in the event that they can still not enjoy the game, find a game they can enjoy, instead.
If I've learned anything from skimming some books on Zen, it's that self-delusion is the default state of the mind. As the Buddha said, misery comes from within, our own egos developing desires and finding it frustrating that reality falls short of meeting them. It's only when these desires are critically evaluated and dissolved under the realization that we've invented them that one can find satisfaction in life.
That's certainly a familiar pattern, I can't think of an MMORPG that has ever evaded it, but I'll keep my predictions in the nature of game mechanics, not people.
Well I quoted a wrong part of your post, my reply to you was based on the first paragraph where you assume things about me being hater etc and I shouldn't edit my quote failure now that you also replied to it.
I don't hate or care much about FFXIV, I am however very annoyed with the genre ever since I quit Everquest over 5 years ago.
In those 5 years I haven't found another MMO able to keep me longer then 2 months ( I did stayed subed to EVE for 3+ years but only played it off and on) and I'm not really demanding on features, I'm casual gamer these days and easy to entertain, I'm not one dimensional either, I can enjoy every style, PVE PVP crafting trading you name it.
And yet a genre that is supposed to have a long term appeal fails to keep me for more then 2 months and I'm probably not alone in this.
So obviously MMO developers are doing something wrong and when I see a crapy game I will drop by on their forums to acknowledge it, that's not hating that's feedback to all developers in hope that some day they start making great games again.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
It seems that some people can only think in binary terms, good-bad, for-against, fans-cynics.
It's more like, "hey, I hate the game, oh look there's somebody who's been largely for the game now pointing out some problems as he sees them.... PROOF! I HAVE PROOF! YOU SHOULD HATE THE GAME AS MUCH AS ME! I AM VINDICATED! "
Uh, no, I still think the game is great and worth playing, I'm just not such a blind fanboy as to not see its faults.
I think this is unfair, Geldonyetich.
Believe it or not, many, if not most, of the people complaining about this game on this forum are FFXIV fans who really wanted to like this game. In many cases, they have even supported SE, and the game, by purchasing the game and subscribing to it. The only difference being, that whereas a portion of the fan base is willing to be tolerant and accept it's short comings, standing loyally by the brand despite it's flaws, others are not so forgiving. They expected much more from a brand as highly thought of and polished as the Final Fantasy franchise.
I could see this as being the case, but there's a fundamental diffrence that the label "FFXIV fan" is a tad too inclusive for me.
For example, there's the "FFXIV fan" who has a massive amount of expectations about the game and is disappinted when the game doesn't live up to them. You see, the trouble there is that expectations are easy, while creating games is hard, and inevitably if you hold a ton of expectations up against a game, you will be disappointed the overwhelming majority of hte time.
On the other hand, here's the "FFXIV fan" who went into the beta/retail without these expectations, gave them what they consdier a fair shake on a relatively neutral set of expectations and found that, despite the fact that the game is as imperfect as most things wrought by human hands, they still enjoy the game, and therein is how they decided to become a fan.
I sympathise with dashed hopes, I really do, but I have to say that I've seen in just about any game that it's just not a good policy to count your chickens before they've hatched. I encourage anyone who has found FFXIV disappointed them by not living up to their expectations to let those expectations go and try again, and in the event that they can still not enjoy the game, find a game they can enjoy, instead.
If I've learned anything from skimming some books on Zen, it's that self-delusion is the default state of the mind. As the Buddha said, misery comes from within, our own mind clawing against its own desires and finding it frustrating that reality falls short of them. It's only when these desires re critically evaluated and dissolved that one can find satisfaction in life.
And they will ... but now is not the time.
We are not at that stage yet ... but we are trying to get there.
Which is exactly why dissent is sometimes necessary.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
I am really confident this isn't going to happen. FFXIV will persevere and will have a good sized fan base. The only question is, how fast can they fix it so we can begin enjoying the game to it's fullest.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Yea, besides, you also get the feeling someone is watching you while reading his posts.
I am really confident this isn't going to happen. FFXIV will persevere and will have a good sized fan base. The only question is, how fast can they fix it so we can begin enjoying the game to it's fullest.
Well I guess it wont fail no.
Listen to yourself lol.
You are already admiting the game is broken but will NOT vote with your wallet and you will still be sending your hard earned money SE's way, playing broken game you don't enjoy and all because you have a hope that they will eventually fix it.
No wonder the genre is at all time low and no wonder companies keep launching unfinished products, even the japs started doing it now lol that's what amazes me the most with this game.
Sure, they'll fix it dude, in the meantime keep paying for a sub, SE is poor indy company that needs your money to survive and fix this game heh.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
They're on a crusade. Sure, some are bored trolls and just looking up the conflict for kicks as long as it isn't about a MMO they really like, but others are actually genuinely convinced they're fighting the good fight, warning other people of the wrongdoings and corruption of evil game companies so those people steer away from it.
Although, whether someone is a dragonslayer at heart or just Don Quichote is hard to say sometimes. In my opinion, it's often the latter than the former the case.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
Sounds like the typical pattern of building a brand new game world and game economy. What's the problem? You want a mature game world in a game still in head start? It will take a good year to fully develop the game economy. Welcome to a new MMO that actually has enough depth to have staying power.
Enjoy being part of "bridging" that gap, or just wait a year. I am enjoying the hell out of it, challenges and all.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
Wrong. I could still ride a bike missing spokes with a flat tire and a missing pedal. It's just unnecssarily hard since I can afford a new bike.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
Wrong. I could still ride a bike missing spokes with a flat tire and a missing pedal. It's just unnecssarily hard since I can afford a new bike.
I would really like to see you try and post a video for us while you are at it.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
Wrong. I could still ride a bike missing spokes with a flat tire and a missing pedal. It's just unnecssarily hard since I can afford a new bike.
I would really like to see you try and post a video for us while you are at it.
As soon as I find a bike as terrible as this game, I will. I need to go to a junkyard apparently.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
Wrong. I could still ride a bike missing spokes with a flat tire and a missing pedal. It's just unnecssarily hard since I can afford a new bike.
I would really like to see you try and post a video for us while you are at it.
As soon as I find a bike as terrible as this game, I will. I need to go to a junkyard apparently.
Like i said stupid analogy, you are still making no sense at all.
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
I suppose this would be related to a couple threads I started with pictures and explanation as evidence of sloppy/bad development by the SE team. What's funny is everything has been documented and no counter-argument has been provided to dispute these things which have now come to widely be accepted as facts.
I think there are a goup of folks who apply the term "troll" improperly.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Judging by the actual accepted meaning of the term "troll", posting negative feedback for a game is not trolling. Posting blatant insults towards people in a thread that have nothing to do with the topic is in fact trolling. Just because you don't like what someone else thinks doesn't mean it's open season to post insults.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
I suppose this would be related to a couple threads I started with pictures and explanation as evidence of sloppy/bad development by the SE team. What's funny is everything has been documented and no counter-argument has been provided to dispute these things which have now come to widely be accepted as facts.
I think there are a goup of folks who apply the term "troll" improperly.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Judging by the actual accepted meaning of the term "troll", posting negative feedback for a game is not trolling. Posting blatant insults towards people in a thread that have nothing to do with the topic is in fact trolling. Just because you don't like what someone else thinks doesn't mean it's open season to post insults.
I don't see a single insult in my post unless you call 'exaggerating' insults? and yes in every post you like to over dramatize everything. You are currently not even playing the game or have any interest to spend any time in it. Most of your information comes for third party websites or other posts on these forums. So please excuse me if i don't take anything you say seriously. You have been proven wrong on my ocassions in past but you just don't know how to move on in life. You will probably be here after a month or year still flaming SE and the game on basis of your out dated information. I have seen it all before, trust me.
Originally posted by Benjola
Ouch lol.
Chill dudes, all of you are way too serious, we are discussing a fucking video game it's not an UN summit.
It IS kinda fun watching how fans of games get butthurt so easily when you attack "their" game.
Children will be children.
Very ironic. You sure you can call others children?
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
I suppose this would be related to a couple threads I started with pictures and explanation as evidence of sloppy/bad development by the SE team. What's funny is everything has been documented and no counter-argument has been provided to dispute these things which have now come to widely be accepted as facts.
I think there are a goup of folks who apply the term "troll" improperly.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Judging by the actual accepted meaning of the term "troll", posting negative feedback for a game is not trolling. Posting blatant insults towards people in a thread that have nothing to do with the topic is in fact trolling. Just because you don't like what someone else thinks doesn't mean it's open season to post insults.
You know who you are? Have you seen the movie "The Incredibles?" Early in the movie, the red haired kid is Mr. Incredibles biggest fan, after the kid does something wrong, MR. Incredible disassociates himself from the kid. The kid takes it to heart and devotes his entire life to the point where he can destroy Mr. Incredible.
You're the kid. Mr. Incredible is SE. You had some unreasonable expectations of FFXIV. Because it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to turn out, you've developed a hatred for SE and have made it your mission to discredit them. Take a look at your Sig... that's all anyone needs to look at. After doing so, you're easily dismissed.
Sadly, I'm POSITIVE you are either playing FFXIV as we speak or will be doing so shortly. This level of fanatacism (one way or another) is not healthy and self-destructive.
I am really confident this isn't going to happen. FFXIV will persevere and will have a good sized fan base. The only question is, how fast can they fix it so we can begin enjoying the game to it's fullest.
Well I guess it wont fail no.
Listen to yourself lol.
You are already admiting the game is broken but will NOT vote with your wallet and you will still be sending your hard earned money SE's way, playing broken game you don't enjoy and all because you have a hope that they will eventually fix it.
No wonder the genre is at all time low and no wonder companies keep launching unfinished products, even the japs started doing it now lol that's what amazes me the most with this game.
Sure, they'll fix it dude, in the meantime keep paying for a sub, SE is poor indy company that needs your money to survive and fix this game heh.
Huh?
Well, I can't admit it is broken because I haven't played it yet. But by following the game it is fairly evident that the game has many flaws, especially with the UI since it is pretty much agreed by everyone that it is currently problematic. As a result, even though I want to eventually play it, I have not yet sent money SE's way.
So I'm not sure It's fair to blame the current state of the genre on little ol' me, but I am flattered that I could be attributed to have made such an impact.
In any case, I feel a lot more important now, than I did this morning when I woke up. And for that, I do thank you
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
I suppose this would be related to a couple threads I started with pictures and explanation as evidence of sloppy/bad development by the SE team. What's funny is everything has been documented and no counter-argument has been provided to dispute these things which have now come to widely be accepted as facts.
I think there are a goup of folks who apply the term "troll" improperly.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Judging by the actual accepted meaning of the term "troll", posting negative feedback for a game is not trolling. Posting blatant insults towards people in a thread that have nothing to do with the topic is in fact trolling. Just because you don't like what someone else thinks doesn't mean it's open season to post insults.
You know who you are? Have you seen the movie "The Incredibles?" Early in the movie, the red haired kid is Mr. Incredibles biggest fan, after the kid does something wrong, MR. Incredible disassociates himself from the kid. The kid takes it to heart and devotes his entire life to the point where he can destroy Mr. Incredible.
You're the kid. Mr. Incredible is SE. You had some unreasonable expectations of FFXIV. Because it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to turn out, you've developed a hatred for SE and have made it your mission to discredit them. Take a look at your Sig... that's all anyone needs to look at. After doing so, you're easily dismissed.
Sadly, I'm POSITIVE you are either playing FFXIV as we speak or will be doing so shortly. This level of fanatacism (one way or another) is not healthy and self-destructive.
......and this is the mindset of the SE/FFXIV fanbase. Equating everything to a cartoon. Just admit your game has flaws, especially the ones that are pretty much universally agreed upon, and maybe people will stop flaming you. Until then, they'll get their fun from making you flip out and espouse your zealotry for a badly made game.
Comments
People think this way because people like geldonytch were on this site everyday shooting down viable complaints saying we were all over reacting, and that everything would be okay at launch. It's obvious that it's not, seeing as even HE is here complaining about the game now. And he also has a viable complaint. Requiring mats higher up the tree then the item you're making is ridiculous and shoddy planning. But what do I know, I'm just a "hater".
I could see this as being the case, but there's a fundamental diffrence that the label "FFXIV fan" is a tad too inclusive for me.
For example, there's the "FFXIV fan" who has a massive amount of expectations about the game and is disappinted when the game doesn't live up to them. You see, the trouble there is that expectations are easy, while creating games is hard, and inevitably if you hold a ton of expectations up against a game, you will be disappointed the overwhelming majority of hte time.
On the other hand, here's the "FFXIV fan" who went into the beta/retail without these expectations, gave them what they consdier a fair shake on a relatively neutral set of expectations and found that, despite the fact that the game is as imperfect as most things wrought by human hands, they still enjoy the game, and therein is how they decided to become a fan.
I sympathise with dashed hopes, I really do, but I have to say that I've seen in just about any game that it's just not a good policy to count your chickens before they've hatched. I encourage anyone who has found FFXIV disappointed them by not living up to their expectations to let those expectations go and try again, and in the event that they can still not enjoy the game, find a game they can enjoy, instead.
If I've learned anything from skimming some books on Zen, it's that self-delusion is the default state of the mind. As the Buddha said, misery comes from within, our own egos developing desires and finding it frustrating that reality falls short of meeting them. It's only when these desires are critically evaluated and dissolved under the realization that we've invented them that one can find satisfaction in life.
Well I quoted a wrong part of your post, my reply to you was based on the first paragraph where you assume things about me being hater etc and I shouldn't edit my quote failure now that you also replied to it.
I don't hate or care much about FFXIV, I am however very annoyed with the genre ever since I quit Everquest over 5 years ago.
In those 5 years I haven't found another MMO able to keep me longer then 2 months ( I did stayed subed to EVE for 3+ years but only played it off and on) and I'm not really demanding on features, I'm casual gamer these days and easy to entertain, I'm not one dimensional either, I can enjoy every style, PVE PVP crafting trading you name it.
And yet a genre that is supposed to have a long term appeal fails to keep me for more then 2 months and I'm probably not alone in this.
So obviously MMO developers are doing something wrong and when I see a crapy game I will drop by on their forums to acknowledge it, that's not hating that's feedback to all developers in hope that some day they start making great games again.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
And they will ... but now is not the time.
We are not at that stage yet ... but we are trying to get there.
Which is exactly why dissent is sometimes necessary.
Without it, we may never get there.
There should be more than enough evidence to already make accurate predictions how this game is going to go. Playing this game is like riding a bicycle with the back tire flat, the front tire missing 18 spokes and the right foot pedal missing. Sure you can probably take it for a ride, but who would want to? It's 2010, there is no excuse for this kind of thing. Who would spend money to fix a beat up bike when you can ride better bikes for cheaper or wait for a bunch of new/better bikes to come along in a few months? Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
This being an example of one of those "over-the-top falsehoods" I tend to be polarized as a fanboy by refuting.
I'd like to improve this analogy, but it's so very off from the reality it's probably better to scrap it and start over. Suffice to say, FFXI had many of these same issues at release, and things turned out fine, it even outperformed EverQuest, so I guess Final Fantasy fan power is going to disappoint you when it comes to hoping people will just move along and let the game fall over lost and broken on the street.
I am really confident this isn't going to happen. FFXIV will persevere and will have a good sized fan base. The only question is, how fast can they fix it so we can begin enjoying the game to it's fullest.
Don't take him seriously. Choujiofkono is our version of Jester. He likes to exagggerate a lot and is quite obsessed with FFXIV even though he has no intereste in playing it. Every video game/company has one obsessed individual. SOE got Jester, Cryptic has Hangbok and SE has Choujiofkono.
Why these people are so obsessed over a company and wishing for it to fail is just anybodys guess.
Yea, besides, you also get the feeling someone is watching you while reading his posts.
Very creepy
Well I guess it wont fail no.
Listen to yourself lol.
You are already admiting the game is broken but will NOT vote with your wallet and you will still be sending your hard earned money SE's way, playing broken game you don't enjoy and all because you have a hope that they will eventually fix it.
No wonder the genre is at all time low and no wonder companies keep launching unfinished products, even the japs started doing it now lol that's what amazes me the most with this game.
Sure, they'll fix it dude, in the meantime keep paying for a sub, SE is poor indy company that needs your money to survive and fix this game heh.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
They're on a crusade. Sure, some are bored trolls and just looking up the conflict for kicks as long as it isn't about a MMO they really like, but others are actually genuinely convinced they're fighting the good fight, warning other people of the wrongdoings and corruption of evil game companies so those people steer away from it.
Although, whether someone is a dragonslayer at heart or just Don Quichote is hard to say sometimes. In my opinion, it's often the latter than the former the case.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
His post was acurate, you just forgot to say that the missing spokes/pedals and flat tire aren't "holding your hand" and that it "adds a level of difficulty" to riding the bike, and that he should go back to "riding a tricycle, noob"!
Sounds like the typical pattern of building a brand new game world and game economy. What's the problem? You want a mature game world in a game still in head start? It will take a good year to fully develop the game economy. Welcome to a new MMO that actually has enough depth to have staying power.
Enjoy being part of "bridging" that gap, or just wait a year. I am enjoying the hell out of it, challenges and all.
Let his dumb analogy die.
We can start a new one about him. He's exactly like the old man yelling at the clouds. I'm guessing this analogy will go over the trolls' heads.
This is the most stupid analogy i have ever seen. The game is not broken its missing few features. According to this analogy the game is utterly broken and unplayable out of the box which is not the case. Its more like bicycle is missing paint or comfy grips to hold the handle.
Wrong. I could still ride a bike missing spokes with a flat tire and a missing pedal. It's just unnecssarily hard since I can afford a new bike.
I would really like to see you try and post a video for us while you are at it.
As soon as I find a bike as terrible as this game, I will. I need to go to a junkyard apparently.
Like i said stupid analogy, you are still making no sense at all.
I suppose this would be related to a couple threads I started with pictures and explanation as evidence of sloppy/bad development by the SE team. What's funny is everything has been documented and no counter-argument has been provided to dispute these things which have now come to widely be accepted as facts.
I think there are a goup of folks who apply the term "troll" improperly.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Judging by the actual accepted meaning of the term "troll", posting negative feedback for a game is not trolling. Posting blatant insults towards people in a thread that have nothing to do with the topic is in fact trolling. Just because you don't like what someone else thinks doesn't mean it's open season to post insults.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Ouch lol.
Chill dudes, all of you are way too serious, we are discussing a fucking video game it's not an UN summit.
It IS kinda fun watching how fans of games get butthurt so easily when you attack "their" game.
Children will be children.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
I don't see a single insult in my post unless you call 'exaggerating' insults? and yes in every post you like to over dramatize everything. You are currently not even playing the game or have any interest to spend any time in it. Most of your information comes for third party websites or other posts on these forums. So please excuse me if i don't take anything you say seriously. You have been proven wrong on my ocassions in past but you just don't know how to move on in life. You will probably be here after a month or year still flaming SE and the game on basis of your out dated information. I have seen it all before, trust me.
Very ironic. You sure you can call others children?
You know who you are? Have you seen the movie "The Incredibles?" Early in the movie, the red haired kid is Mr. Incredibles biggest fan, after the kid does something wrong, MR. Incredible disassociates himself from the kid. The kid takes it to heart and devotes his entire life to the point where he can destroy Mr. Incredible.
You're the kid. Mr. Incredible is SE. You had some unreasonable expectations of FFXIV. Because it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to turn out, you've developed a hatred for SE and have made it your mission to discredit them. Take a look at your Sig... that's all anyone needs to look at. After doing so, you're easily dismissed.
Sadly, I'm POSITIVE you are either playing FFXIV as we speak or will be doing so shortly. This level of fanatacism (one way or another) is not healthy and self-destructive.
Huh?
Well, I can't admit it is broken because I haven't played it yet. But by following the game it is fairly evident that the game has many flaws, especially with the UI since it is pretty much agreed by everyone that it is currently problematic. As a result, even though I want to eventually play it, I have not yet sent money SE's way.
So I'm not sure It's fair to blame the current state of the genre on little ol' me, but I am flattered that I could be attributed to have made such an impact.
In any case, I feel a lot more important now, than I did this morning when I woke up. And for that, I do thank you
......and this is the mindset of the SE/FFXIV fanbase. Equating everything to a cartoon. Just admit your game has flaws, especially the ones that are pretty much universally agreed upon, and maybe people will stop flaming you. Until then, they'll get their fun from making you flip out and espouse your zealotry for a badly made game.