Originally posted by KyngBills Well... First off just wanna say I appreciate what you did as a volunteer over there...All respect due and such.../deepbow Granted the GCW needed a re-vamp...No question about it...But it was not going to be the be-all, end all that you invision because with all due respect you see the game through PvP colored glasses...I played on Your Server since the beginning of the CU...I was a Council Member and Co-Founder of what became the largest Reb Guild on Flurry during the NGE (You know...that "Carebear/City Building" Guild...lol)...What killed SWG for Me, My Guild and My close Friends was not necessarily the lack of GCW content...Especially because the GCW had become nothing more than a code-name for PvP...What killed the Game for Me and My Guild was the lack of new end Game content like Hoth and the Instances along with SWG's absolute LOVE for taking earned things AWAY from us in game...We LOVED Hoth when it came out (dispite the bugs)...Ran multiple Groups daily...One of Our Council Members became know Server wide for His Hoth runs...No one I talked to daily seemed too concerned with Hoth's relevance to the War, infact most Folks in My Guild LOVED the fact they were getting decent GCW by running a PvE Instance...The tokens got them items they desired at the time...But that only lasts for a while...On a Game like LOTRO (and others) they are coming out with new and exciting Instances monthly...On SWG it's one a Year if we were lucky...Then finally they did the 90-Day Pack up garbage and that was that...They lost the PvE crowd by the masses (that's the casual crowd that keeps the gears moving and keeps the cash flowing...ie the non-vocal majority) because we were tired of having things taken away from us dating back to to the NGE, through the 1st GCW (that's right, I had not one but two Colonels stripped of their Ranks and returned to Private because according to SWG I could have purchased Faction from a Smuggler to Rank-up in a Day or two...That of coarse was a shock to me and just about everyone I knew...Basically I was told those countless, and I mean countless hours grinding Faction were all for nothing...notta...zip...That REALLY pissed a lot of Folks off...but I digress), and up until now...Plus we just got bored...we wanted more Heroics and End-Game content that was simply not coming any time soon if at all... Not enough new and exciting STAR WARS PvE content, taking away Our Cities through that rediculous pack-up that in some cases (like my City on Talus) were more than 3 Years Old, and Zombies???? Those are the reasons I heard for Folks quitting for good...Sure they would have liked a GCW re-vamp that saw some meaningful PvE content...But that was only a piece of the puzzle...Not the main solution... Just saying...
Kill All Imps huh?!?
Hey, your guild never got flamed by me mate. I didn't like the arrogance some of the members had, especially during the server transfers, but for the few a-holes that were vocal posters, you also had some unbelievably generous mayors who did offer their cities and overall, you had a very solid guild with some fantastic people!
Let me dispel your view of me first...I was NOT just a "PvP" monger as so many assume. True, I enjoyed PvP immensely and I did my best to represent PvPers during the PvP Update (fail!). PvP was the only truly dynamic combat SWG had. The only system where more than 8 players could "group" and do it together (until BF's ruined even that). The only activity that didn't have a "system" to beat it and the only activity where I really didn't know what I'd be facing each and every night (until BF's ruined that). The challenge of PvP was what drove ME to enjoy it.
For as vocal as I was about the PvP Update, I would have been equally, or MORE, vocal for the GCW Update. When I said the GCW needed to be the FOCUS, I meant for the GAME! Don't confuse GCW as being PvP...GCW is the Galactic Civil War...Imps vs Rebs. As a Rebel Mayor, you should have had the right to refuse Imperial usage of your shuttle port and vendors. If the planet fell under Imperial control, there should have been a "penalty" for your disloyalty to the Empire. While under Rebel control, you could have been granted a vendor in the NPC cities. There needed to be "perks" to you for being on the controlling side...and a penalty for being on the losing side. When I say "GCW", I really do mean a game wide system...not just PvP.
You mentioned how your guild loved Hoth because of the easy GCW points...SoE never realized how much those points worked. GCW points were the voluntary grind of the NGE - the "repeatable" content that so many want. Pilots, PvPers, Crafters, PvEers, Base Clubbers...they ALL wanted and had some interest in GCW points. SoE had a working system...but they squandered it. Rather than expanding the system to include ALL playstyles, they stuck by their thinking that "GCW points should come primarily from PvP".
The pace at which they're currently "developing" is sick. Hoth took 9 months, after Hoth, they began work on "the next big system" they said (verifiable in Producer Note)...that has taken a YEAR to release and isn't even finished. No rewards on TC yet, no space aspect, no ability to share, just another long ass boring grind added to the game. WTF!?!?!?! A YEAR?! To develop what is essentially a Storyteller update?! HOLY BUCKETS! When I read that Chronicles was in development since the release Hoth it made me laugh. ONE YEAR to develop Chronicles...ONE year. Wow...
So...while you may think I advocated just PvP, I assure you, that was not the case. GCW needed to include Entertainers, Crafters, Pilots, Politicians, Combat toons...everyone! Had the GCW been the main mini-game of SWG from the start, I highly doubt they would need to close 12 servers.
Yep You got it!!! The KAI part that is...
And I hear ya...I don't necessarily disagree with you either...At least not 100%...Just think there was a LOT more to it...Like I said a GCW re-vamp was definitely one of the necessary improvements...But i don't think that, in itself, would have saved anything...But who knows? You know that inner workings of that Dev thing better than I do...All I can comment on is what I know from the Folks I know and what I saw with My own two eyes...That's all...
Oh and I hope You did not think I was saying you flamed Us or anything like that...This is just a discussion Bro...Nothing more...All due respect OK?
Originally posted by TUX426 Kill All Imps huh?!? Hey, your guild never got flamed by me mate. I didn't like the arrogance some of the members had, especially during the server transfers, but for the few a-holes that were vocal posters, you also had some unbelievably generous mayors who did offer their cities and overall, you had a very solid guild with some fantastic people! Let me dispel your view of me first...I was NOT just a "PvP" monger as so many assume. True, I enjoyed PvP immensely and I did my best to represent PvPers during the PvP Update (fail!). PvP was the only truly dynamic combat SWG had. The only system where more than 8 players could "group" and do it together (until BF's ruined even that). The only activity that didn't have a "system" to beat it and the only activity where I really didn't know what I'd be facing each and every night (until BF's ruined that). The challenge of PvP was what drove ME to enjoy it. For as vocal as I was about the PvP Update, I would have been equally, or MORE, vocal for the GCW Update. When I said the GCW needed to be the FOCUS, I meant for the GAME! Don't confuse GCW as being PvP...GCW is the Galactic Civil War...Imps vs Rebs. As a Rebel Mayor, you should have had the right to refuse Imperial usage of your shuttle port and vendors. If the planet fell under Imperial control, there should have been a "penalty" for your disloyalty to the Empire. While under Rebel control, you could have been granted a vendor in the NPC cities. There needed to be "perks" to you for being on the controlling side...and a penalty for being on the losing side. When I say "GCW", I really do mean a game wide system...not just PvP. You mentioned how your guild loved Hoth because of the easy GCW points...SoE never realized how much those points worked. GCW points were the voluntary grind of the NGE - the "repeatable" content that so many want. Pilots, PvPers, Crafters, PvEers, Base Clubbers...they ALL wanted and had some interest in GCW points. SoE had a working system...but they squandered it. Rather than expanding the system to include ALL playstyles, they stuck by their thinking that "GCW points should come primarily from PvP". The pace at which they're currently "developing" is sick. Hoth took 9 months, after Hoth, they began work on "the next big system" they said (verifiable in Producer Note)...that has taken a YEAR to release and isn't even finished. No rewards on TC yet, no space aspect, no ability to share, just another long ass boring grind added to the game. WTF!?!?!?! A YEAR?! To develop what is essentially a Storyteller update?! HOLY BUCKETS! When I read that Chronicles was in development since the release Hoth it made me laugh. ONE YEAR to develop Chronicles...ONE year. Wow... So...while you may think I advocated just PvP, I assure you, that was not the case. GCW needed to include Entertainers, Crafters, Pilots, Politicians, Combat toons...everyone! Had the GCW been the main mini-game of SWG from the start, I highly doubt they would need to close 12 servers.
I remember the GCW update. Lost rank myself and knew plenty of people that left the game, on Kauri, because of it and their dropping to 0 with just a chip to get you one rank back. Only one of the few contants in SWG is "There will be less subscriptions after the CHANGE than there was before the CHANGE". Like others have said, when you kill off in-game accomplishments, there is bound to be some trouble because of it.
However, I have to disagree with your version of the GCW, also. There were plenty in SWG that just did not want to pvp due to the 3rd party programs, exploits, gank -fests, and all the l33t speaking kiddies that haunted this part of the game. (It seemed to be worse, I guess, on Bria than many other servers). Myself, what killed PVP for me, was blixtev's nightmare of "LS = pve (tank)". That was taking an entire profession (as DS really became it's own profession in that CHANGE) and by DESIGN, limiting LS's gameplay to JUST pve, again by DESIGN. There is no DPS to kill before being killed, no way for a LS to "tank" all the spike damage GU-Whatever introduced into the game, and PVP was just not fun, anylonger. 32,000 smuggler hits, Mando 3 set of DoTs ticking before Hermatic Touch came around again (post NERF/CHANGE), and the other 2 NERFS that LS had to endure (Glanceing Blow and Block - all defence stat NERFs with DR) killed pvp for one of the most so-called iconic professions in SWG, period. This is further compounded by haveing people remember what jedi "used to be" before a bunch of other damn SOE CHANGES.
So, if I was still in the game, so many penalitys for other parts of the game, due to being on the losing side of GCW, and really being able to do NOTHING about it due to my class (LS jedi, 4 traders, and 1 ent), this would be just another magical cancel button CHANGE for me, (and very probably will be for many others). If they are going to center GCW around PVP, then at the least, all the combat classes should be PVP viable. And until that happens, all they're going to do by making the GCW haveing other mini-game penalitys, is tick people off.
This will not result in getting PVPers more red dots to kill. Why? Because it still does nothing about 3rd party programs, exploits, gank-fests, l33T speaking kiddies, professions not DESIGNED for PVP, etc, etc, etc.
Originally posted by Esquire1980 I remember the GCW update. Lost rank myself and knew plenty of people that left the game, on Kauri, because of it and their dropping to 0 with just a chip to get you one rank back. Only one of the few contants in SWG is "There will be less subscriptions after the CHANGE than there was before the CHANGE". Like others have said, when you kill off in-game accomplishments, there is bound to be some trouble because of it. However, I have to disagree with your version of the GCW, also. There were plenty in SWG that just did not want to pvp due to the 3rd party programs, exploits, gank -fests, and all the l33t speaking kiddies that haunted this part of the game. (It seemed to be worse, I guess, on Bria than many other servers). Myself, what killed PVP for me, was blixtev's nightmare of "LS = pve (tank)". That was taking an entire profession (as DS really became it's own profession in that CHANGE) and by DESIGN, limiting LS's gameplay to JUST pve, again by DESIGN. There is no DPS to kill before being killed, no way for a LS to "tank" all the spike damage GU-Whatever introduced into the game, and PVP was just not fun, anylonger. 32,000 smuggler hits, Mando 3 set of DoTs ticking before Hermatic Touch came around again (post NERF/CHANGE), and the other 2 NERFS that LS had to endure (Glanceing Blow and Block - all defence stat NERFs with DR) killed pvp for one of the most so-called iconic professions in SWG, period. This is further compounded by haveing people remember what jedi "used to be" before a bunch of other damn SOE CHANGES. So, if I was still in the game, so many penalitys for other parts of the game, due to being on the losing side of GCW, and really being able to do NOTHING about it due to my class (LS jedi, 4 traders, and 1 ent), this would be just another magical cancel button CHANGE for me, (and very probably will be for many others). If they are going to center GCW around PVP, then at the least, all the combat classes should be PVP viable. And until that happens, all they're going to do by making the GCW haveing other mini-game penalitys, is tick people off. This will not result in getting PVPers more red dots to kill. Why? Because it still does nothing about 3rd party programs, exploits, gank-fests, l33T speaking kiddies, professions not DESIGNED for PVP, etc, etc, etc.
I'm not sure why you quoted my reply for this, but...I agree with you. GCW does ---> NOT <--- = PvP. PvP is a playstyle, just like space, just like crafting...nothing more. Forcing players to PvP does not = more PvPers, just like that stupid Legacy Quest mission to space doesn't make more pilots. Incentivising PvP, IMO, is how you get more PvPers (ie more GCW, possibly better loot drops if you're SF). Encouraging SF/Overt play > forcing it.
The part about l33T speak kiddies, meh...they're in any game and most of the time they are the biggest non-factor players. Anyone who really did PvP knew that without you (you being an opponent) , there was no PvP. The tools who run up AFTER a fight where you were outnumbered 30-4 and yell "pwnd" are the ones who look like fools mate. Don't ever let some a-hole bug ya because of what he says.
The problems with LS Jedi (aside from them being in the game :P) was another issue altogether...having never once been a Jedi, I wasn't qualified to speak for them. I agree with you though...the change seemed to cripple them. Arkon (former Jedi Senator at the time) was instrumental in getting a DS/LS difference...but his vision was NOT what we have.
Originally posted by KyngBills Yep You got it!!! The KAI part that is... And I hear ya...I don't necessarily disagree with you either...At least not 100%...Just think there was a LOT more to it...Like I said a GCW re-vamp was definitely one of the necessary improvements...But i don't think that, in itself, would have saved anything...But who knows? You know that inner workings of that Dev thing better than I do...All I can comment on is what I know from the Folks I know and what I saw with My own two eyes...That's all... Oh and I hope You did not think I was saying you flamed Us or anything like that...This is just a discussion Bro...Nothing more...All due respect OK? Peace
Well, at this point, I don't know if they can fix the game...GCW Update or not. IMO, the GCW had to be the foundation - not just a point system. Dynamic and player changing with penalties and rewards, risk and consequence.
What I fear the GCW Update will be is little more than static base terminals placed in NPC cities that spawn NPCs...and that'll be the "new GCW Update". Hopefully I'm wrong.
And I know you didn't flame me mate, I didn't mean to imply you had - sorry if that's how it read >.< ...text sux for clarity at times Like I said, I had great respect for many of your members. I never let the few influence my opinion of the whole
I'm not sure why you quoted my reply for this, but...I agree with you. GCW does ---> NOT <--- = PvP. PvP is a playstyle, just like space, just like crafting...nothing more. Forcing players to PvP does not = more PvPers, just like that stupid Legacy Quest mission to space doesn't make more pilots. Incentivising PvP, IMO, is how you get more PvPers (ie more GCW, possibly better loot drops if you're SF). Encouraging SF/Overt play > forcing it. The part about l33T speak kiddies, meh...they're in any game and most of the time they are the biggest non-factor players. Anyone who really did PvP knew that without you (you being an opponent) , there was no PvP. The tools who run up AFTER a fight where you were outnumbered 30-4 and yell "pwnd" are the ones who look like fools mate. Don't ever let some a-hole bug ya because of what he says. The problems with LS Jedi (aside from them being in the game :P) was another issue altogether...having never once been a Jedi, I wasn't qualified to speak for them. I agree with you though...the change seemed to cripple them. Arkon (former Jedi Senator at the time) was instrumental in getting a DS/LS difference...but his vision was NOT what we have.
My point, about your post, was to disagree with the penalities for GCW "losers" in specific mini-games other than PVP. With SWG PVP what it is now, imposing a penalty on non PVPers in an attemp at incentive for them to PVP will probably do nothing except lead them to that magical cancel button. The main issues that not many PVP in the 1st place, will still all be there with no CHANGE made to or for them.
Way back when, on Kauri, the l33t speaking kiddies were the minority and most enjoyed PVP gameplay very much, including myself. And, there was a time when SWG did not lend itself to the younger set, with ADD. As the game was made easier (some say "dumbed-down") this type of player was made more prevelant in SWG gameplay and certainly became the NGE "target" audience. SOE got exactly what they were going after, altho I'm sure they were looking for alot more of the l33t speaking kiddies to show than actually did.
I doubt, very much, if a complete GCW revamp, centering the game around the galactic civil war will have the effect that you wish it to have. Maybe, if it was done that way from the start, but how it will be looked at now is, just another complete system CHANGE that effects subs in yet another negative manner.
Arkon, did an excellant job of comeing out against GU-3 (NJE). So much so, that I doubt he could of gotten another term as senator. SOE Austin just does not like to be told they screwed up. But after all of Arkon's trying, many (many) other posts about the system (with a bunch just begging to be left alone at that point) was to no avail. Blix wrote the code, so it must be correct and must be implimented. (all hail, mighty toilet-boy) With the orginal jedi system, I didn't see any problem at all with having jedi in the game, even with cannon. (see this in the flightless bird) But once SOE had it in, there was no going back, even with ALL the CHANGES. However, I agree that jedi who are weaker than every other combat profession, and only designed for PVE, should not be in the game. To be perfecly honest, LS could be deleted and hardly any other profession would notice.
What, do they think we don't talk to each other? Do they think people don't watch how a company operates before handing them their Visa number?
I certainly do now - thanks to SoE of course
You know, if gamers are more wary of who they trust with their credit card, and if game companies see that they can't take customers for granted, a lot of this posting will have served a useful purpose =D
Well, there you go. The only inconveniance for not getting in before October 15 is a bit of "stupid tax"
LOL, how you can argue this is beyond me. $50 for me to activate my toon PLUS $15 is GOING to cost them players. No way around it.
Why would you have the audacity to call the players "stupid"? How are they stupid? What did they do? Are you calling them "stupid" because they took a break or got bored of the current game? Maybe they were waiting for a coming Update?
I have to assume you get "stuff" or favors from SoE, because there is no way in hell any rational person could justify the $50 fee to move a toon. If I go back, I don't have to pay the $50 to access my stuff...why should someone on a closed server??? It's a database...not like a Dev has to actually go in there and move my gear. I have several other accounts that were not active at all during the FCTS. Oct 16th, I can log in and play those toons for just $15...even though they have been inactive as long as anyone else's on a "dead" server. As one poster put it, the $50 is simply extortion.
That $50 fee just ensures none of the missing Vets from that server NEVER return. The only ones you can call "stupid" for the $50 is SoE...or maybe this is their plan.
They're not players, they're ex-players. I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub. THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off. Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago). If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.
I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them. My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you )
If SOE had announced that they were closing servers when they started the FCTS in Dec/Jan, or maybe even about 3 months ago, then you may have a point, but calling people stupid with the way SOE has handled things is unacceptable, and for SOE to think that the players or explayers will even pay the $50 now, then SOE are the stupid ones.
Most players transferred off as soon as the FCTS strated, and they are now regretting the choices they made, as the servers they transferred to are now becoming more dead than the servers they transferred off from. People who did not take the opportunity are not stupid at all, as the smart thing to do was to wait and see what the best server will be to transfer to.
The $50 is just another reason for players not to come back at all ,,, ever, and increases the chance that SWG will get closed sooner.
Well, there you go. The only inconveniance for not getting in before October 15 is a bit of "stupid tax"
LOL, how you can argue this is beyond me. $50 for me to activate my toon PLUS $15 is GOING to cost them players. No way around it.
Why would you have the audacity to call the players "stupid"? How are they stupid? What did they do? Are you calling them "stupid" because they took a break or got bored of the current game? Maybe they were waiting for a coming Update?
I have to assume you get "stuff" or favors from SoE, because there is no way in hell any rational person could justify the $50 fee to move a toon. If I go back, I don't have to pay the $50 to access my stuff...why should someone on a closed server??? It's a database...not like a Dev has to actually go in there and move my gear. I have several other accounts that were not active at all during the FCTS. Oct 16th, I can log in and play those toons for just $15...even though they have been inactive as long as anyone else's on a "dead" server. As one poster put it, the $50 is simply extortion.
That $50 fee just ensures none of the missing Vets from that server NEVER return. The only ones you can call "stupid" for the $50 is SoE...or maybe this is their plan.
They're not players, they're ex-players. I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub. THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off. Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago). If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.
I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them. My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you )
Also, there was only really one opportunity where players had a free reactivation. I have quite a load of accounts, and only a couple of accounts got reactivated for free during the house pack up event, as those were reativated after Empire Day 2008, and did not qualify for the free reactivation in Nov 2008. All accounts were reactivated during Nov 2008, but there was no free cts then, and because all the accounts (except the two I reactivated after Empire Day 2008) got reactivated then, they did not qualify for the free reactiavtion in Jan/Feb for the house packup event. Only the couple of accounts that got reactivated in August-September and were not reactivated for free in Nov got the free reactivation in Jan/Feb. Then in July 2009 all accounts got reactivated again, so there was only one opportunity. They offered serveral free reactivations tru, but not all qualified for each one as the November one and Jan/Feb one were too close together.
I am a vet player, and my characters are all on closed server. Since I will not pay $50 to move each of them off the closed server, SOE has removed any chance I would ever resub.
As far as doing it in the past, why would I pay $15 to activate my sub to move my characters on a game that I was not currently playing?
I am not faulting SOE for doing this, as a business it makes good sense to make as much money as possible from your subscribers. I just question how this practice would actually entice anybody to come back to the game? Anybody that actually does their homework before re-subbing should be full aware of the costs, and anybody that blindly reactivates a SOE game without at least taking its pulse in these forums or the official forums is a fool given SOE's history.
I am a vet player, and my characters are all on closed server. Since I will not pay $50 to move each of them off the closed server, SOE has removed any chance I would ever resub.
As far as doing it in the past, why would I pay $15 to activate my sub to move my characters on a game that I was not currently playing?
I am not faulting SOE for doing this, as a business it makes good sense to make as much money as possible from your subscribers. I just question how this practice would actually entice anybody to come back to the game? Anybody that actually does their homework before re-subbing should be full aware of the costs, and anybody that blindly reactivates a SOE game without at least taking its pulse in these forums or the official forums is a fool given SOE's history.
My question is: Have you contacted SOE and CONFIRMED that, yes, it will cost you $50 to move your characters from a closed, non-existing server to an active one? Or are you just going by the ramblings found here?
Comments
Kill All Imps huh?!?
Hey, your guild never got flamed by me mate. I didn't like the arrogance some of the members had, especially during the server transfers, but for the few a-holes that were vocal posters, you also had some unbelievably generous mayors who did offer their cities and overall, you had a very solid guild with some fantastic people!
Let me dispel your view of me first...I was NOT just a "PvP" monger as so many assume. True, I enjoyed PvP immensely and I did my best to represent PvPers during the PvP Update (fail!). PvP was the only truly dynamic combat SWG had. The only system where more than 8 players could "group" and do it together (until BF's ruined even that). The only activity that didn't have a "system" to beat it and the only activity where I really didn't know what I'd be facing each and every night (until BF's ruined that). The challenge of PvP was what drove ME to enjoy it.
For as vocal as I was about the PvP Update, I would have been equally, or MORE, vocal for the GCW Update. When I said the GCW needed to be the FOCUS, I meant for the GAME! Don't confuse GCW as being PvP...GCW is the Galactic Civil War...Imps vs Rebs. As a Rebel Mayor, you should have had the right to refuse Imperial usage of your shuttle port and vendors. If the planet fell under Imperial control, there should have been a "penalty" for your disloyalty to the Empire. While under Rebel control, you could have been granted a vendor in the NPC cities. There needed to be "perks" to you for being on the controlling side...and a penalty for being on the losing side. When I say "GCW", I really do mean a game wide system...not just PvP.
You mentioned how your guild loved Hoth because of the easy GCW points...SoE never realized how much those points worked. GCW points were the voluntary grind of the NGE - the "repeatable" content that so many want. Pilots, PvPers, Crafters, PvEers, Base Clubbers...they ALL wanted and had some interest in GCW points. SoE had a working system...but they squandered it. Rather than expanding the system to include ALL playstyles, they stuck by their thinking that "GCW points should come primarily from PvP".
The pace at which they're currently "developing" is sick. Hoth took 9 months, after Hoth, they began work on "the next big system" they said (verifiable in Producer Note)...that has taken a YEAR to release and isn't even finished. No rewards on TC yet, no space aspect, no ability to share, just another long ass boring grind added to the game. WTF!?!?!?! A YEAR?! To develop what is essentially a Storyteller update?! HOLY BUCKETS! When I read that Chronicles was in development since the release Hoth it made me laugh. ONE YEAR to develop Chronicles...ONE year. Wow...
So...while you may think I advocated just PvP, I assure you, that was not the case. GCW needed to include Entertainers, Crafters, Pilots, Politicians, Combat toons...everyone! Had the GCW been the main mini-game of SWG from the start, I highly doubt they would need to close 12 servers.
Yep You got it!!!
The KAI part that is...
And I hear ya...I don't necessarily disagree with you either...At least not 100%...Just think there was a LOT more to it...Like I said a GCW re-vamp was definitely one of the necessary improvements...But i don't think that, in itself, would have saved anything...But who knows? You know that inner workings of that Dev thing better than I do...All I can comment on is what I know from the Folks I know and what I saw with My own two eyes...That's all...
Oh and I hope You did not think I was saying you flamed Us or anything like that...This is just a discussion Bro...Nothing more...All due respect OK?
Peace
I certainly do now - thanks to SoE of course
I remember the GCW update. Lost rank myself and knew plenty of people that left the game, on Kauri, because of it and their dropping to 0 with just a chip to get you one rank back. Only one of the few contants in SWG is "There will be less subscriptions after the CHANGE than there was before the CHANGE". Like others have said, when you kill off in-game accomplishments, there is bound to be some trouble because of it.
However, I have to disagree with your version of the GCW, also. There were plenty in SWG that just did not want to pvp due to the 3rd party programs, exploits, gank -fests, and all the l33t speaking kiddies that haunted this part of the game. (It seemed to be worse, I guess, on Bria than many other servers). Myself, what killed PVP for me, was blixtev's nightmare of "LS = pve (tank)". That was taking an entire profession (as DS really became it's own profession in that CHANGE) and by DESIGN, limiting LS's gameplay to JUST pve, again by DESIGN. There is no DPS to kill before being killed, no way for a LS to "tank" all the spike damage GU-Whatever introduced into the game, and PVP was just not fun, anylonger. 32,000 smuggler hits, Mando 3 set of DoTs ticking before Hermatic Touch came around again (post NERF/CHANGE), and the other 2 NERFS that LS had to endure (Glanceing Blow and Block - all defence stat NERFs with DR) killed pvp for one of the most so-called iconic professions in SWG, period. This is further compounded by haveing people remember what jedi "used to be" before a bunch of other damn SOE CHANGES.
So, if I was still in the game, so many penalitys for other parts of the game, due to being on the losing side of GCW, and really being able to do NOTHING about it due to my class (LS jedi, 4 traders, and 1 ent), this would be just another magical cancel button CHANGE for me, (and very probably will be for many others). If they are going to center GCW around PVP, then at the least, all the combat classes should be PVP viable. And until that happens, all they're going to do by making the GCW haveing other mini-game penalitys, is tick people off.
This will not result in getting PVPers more red dots to kill. Why? Because it still does nothing about 3rd party programs, exploits, gank-fests, l33T speaking kiddies, professions not DESIGNED for PVP, etc, etc, etc.
I'm not sure why you quoted my reply for this, but...I agree with you. GCW does ---> NOT <--- = PvP. PvP is a playstyle, just like space, just like crafting...nothing more. Forcing players to PvP does not = more PvPers, just like that stupid Legacy Quest mission to space doesn't make more pilots. Incentivising PvP, IMO, is how you get more PvPers (ie more GCW, possibly better loot drops if you're SF). Encouraging SF/Overt play > forcing it.
The part about l33T speak kiddies, meh...they're in any game and most of the time they are the biggest non-factor players. Anyone who really did PvP knew that without you (you being an opponent) , there was no PvP. The tools who run up AFTER a fight where you were outnumbered 30-4 and yell "pwnd" are the ones who look like fools mate. Don't ever let some a-hole bug ya because of what he says.
The problems with LS Jedi (aside from them being in the game :P) was another issue altogether...having never once been a Jedi, I wasn't qualified to speak for them. I agree with you though...the change seemed to cripple them. Arkon (former Jedi Senator at the time) was instrumental in getting a DS/LS difference...but his vision was NOT what we have.
Well, at this point, I don't know if they can fix the game...GCW Update or not. IMO, the GCW had to be the foundation - not just a point system. Dynamic and player changing with penalties and rewards, risk and consequence.
What I fear the GCW Update will be is little more than static base terminals placed in NPC cities that spawn NPCs...and that'll be the "new GCW Update". Hopefully I'm wrong.
And I know you didn't flame me mate, I didn't mean to imply you had - sorry if that's how it read >.< ...text sux for clarity at times
Like I said, I had great respect for many of your members. I never let the few influence my opinion of the whole 
My point, about your post, was to disagree with the penalities for GCW "losers" in specific mini-games other than PVP. With SWG PVP what it is now, imposing a penalty on non PVPers in an attemp at incentive for them to PVP will probably do nothing except lead them to that magical cancel button. The main issues that not many PVP in the 1st place, will still all be there with no CHANGE made to or for them.
Way back when, on Kauri, the l33t speaking kiddies were the minority and most enjoyed PVP gameplay very much, including myself. And, there was a time when SWG did not lend itself to the younger set, with ADD. As the game was made easier (some say "dumbed-down") this type of player was made more prevelant in SWG gameplay and certainly became the NGE "target" audience. SOE got exactly what they were going after, altho I'm sure they were looking for alot more of the l33t speaking kiddies to show than actually did.
I doubt, very much, if a complete GCW revamp, centering the game around the galactic civil war will have the effect that you wish it to have. Maybe, if it was done that way from the start, but how it will be looked at now is, just another complete system CHANGE that effects subs in yet another negative manner.
Arkon, did an excellant job of comeing out against GU-3 (NJE). So much so, that I doubt he could of gotten another term as senator. SOE Austin just does not like to be told they screwed up. But after all of Arkon's trying, many (many) other posts about the system (with a bunch just begging to be left alone at that point) was to no avail. Blix wrote the code, so it must be correct and must be implimented. (all hail, mighty toilet-boy) With the orginal jedi system, I didn't see any problem at all with having jedi in the game, even with cannon. (see this in the flightless bird) But once SOE had it in, there was no going back, even with ALL the CHANGES. However, I agree that jedi who are weaker than every other combat profession, and only designed for PVE, should not be in the game. To be perfecly honest, LS could be deleted and hardly any other profession would notice.
I certainly do now - thanks to SoE of course
You know, if gamers are more wary of who they trust with their credit card, and if game companies see that they can't take customers for granted, a lot of this posting will have served a useful purpose =D
LOL, how you can argue this is beyond me. $50 for me to activate my toon PLUS $15 is GOING to cost them players. No way around it.
Why would you have the audacity to call the players "stupid"? How are they stupid? What did they do? Are you calling them "stupid" because they took a break or got bored of the current game? Maybe they were waiting for a coming Update?
I have to assume you get "stuff" or favors from SoE, because there is no way in hell any rational person could justify the $50 fee to move a toon. If I go back, I don't have to pay the $50 to access my stuff...why should someone on a closed server??? It's a database...not like a Dev has to actually go in there and move my gear. I have several other accounts that were not active at all during the FCTS. Oct 16th, I can log in and play those toons for just $15...even though they have been inactive as long as anyone else's on a "dead" server. As one poster put it, the $50 is simply extortion.
That $50 fee just ensures none of the missing Vets from that server NEVER return. The only ones you can call "stupid" for the $50 is SoE...or maybe this is their plan.
They're not players, they're ex-players. I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub. THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off. Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago). If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.
I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them. My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you
)
If SOE had announced that they were closing servers when they started the FCTS in Dec/Jan, or maybe even about 3 months ago, then you may have a point, but calling people stupid with the way SOE has handled things is unacceptable, and for SOE to think that the players or explayers will even pay the $50 now, then SOE are the stupid ones.
Most players transferred off as soon as the FCTS strated, and they are now regretting the choices they made, as the servers they transferred to are now becoming more dead than the servers they transferred off from. People who did not take the opportunity are not stupid at all, as the smart thing to do was to wait and see what the best server will be to transfer to.
The $50 is just another reason for players not to come back at all ,,, ever, and increases the chance that SWG will get closed sooner.
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LOL, how you can argue this is beyond me. $50 for me to activate my toon PLUS $15 is GOING to cost them players. No way around it.
Why would you have the audacity to call the players "stupid"? How are they stupid? What did they do? Are you calling them "stupid" because they took a break or got bored of the current game? Maybe they were waiting for a coming Update?
I have to assume you get "stuff" or favors from SoE, because there is no way in hell any rational person could justify the $50 fee to move a toon. If I go back, I don't have to pay the $50 to access my stuff...why should someone on a closed server??? It's a database...not like a Dev has to actually go in there and move my gear. I have several other accounts that were not active at all during the FCTS. Oct 16th, I can log in and play those toons for just $15...even though they have been inactive as long as anyone else's on a "dead" server. As one poster put it, the $50 is simply extortion.
That $50 fee just ensures none of the missing Vets from that server NEVER return. The only ones you can call "stupid" for the $50 is SoE...or maybe this is their plan.
They're not players, they're ex-players. I call it "stupid tax" because they've had THREE opportunities to transfer off those servers for free now, without having to resub. THREE chances to avoid having to pay $50 to move off. Regardless of if the servers were closing down or not, there was a dead line set on that free transfer period and it was set to expire at the end of September (which was announce many months ago). If people have chosen to ignore the THREE free opportunities to move off those servers then I think it's relatively safe to say they have little interest in returning to the game.
I'm sure if I worked for SOE this type of reply wouldn't be endorsed by them. My patience for people willing to blame everyone but themselves has growen shorter over the last years (that's what getting into IT will do to you
)
Also, there was only really one opportunity where players had a free reactivation. I have quite a load of accounts, and only a couple of accounts got reactivated for free during the house pack up event, as those were reativated after Empire Day 2008, and did not qualify for the free reactivation in Nov 2008. All accounts were reactivated during Nov 2008, but there was no free cts then, and because all the accounts (except the two I reactivated after Empire Day 2008) got reactivated then, they did not qualify for the free reactiavtion in Jan/Feb for the house packup event. Only the couple of accounts that got reactivated in August-September and were not reactivated for free in Nov got the free reactivation in Jan/Feb. Then in July 2009 all accounts got reactivated again, so there was only one opportunity. They offered serveral free reactivations tru, but not all qualified for each one as the November one and Jan/Feb one were too close together.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
From May 14th SOE are now charging people again to transfer off closed servers
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/279445/SOE-charges-again-to-transfer-off-closed-servers.html
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I am a vet player, and my characters are all on closed server. Since I will not pay $50 to move each of them off the closed server, SOE has removed any chance I would ever resub.
As far as doing it in the past, why would I pay $15 to activate my sub to move my characters on a game that I was not currently playing?
I am not faulting SOE for doing this, as a business it makes good sense to make as much money as possible from your subscribers. I just question how this practice would actually entice anybody to come back to the game? Anybody that actually does their homework before re-subbing should be full aware of the costs, and anybody that blindly reactivates a SOE game without at least taking its pulse in these forums or the official forums is a fool given SOE's history.
My question is: Have you contacted SOE and CONFIRMED that, yes, it will cost you $50 to move your characters from a closed, non-existing server to an active one? Or are you just going by the ramblings found here?
Go to the source, my friend.