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My (not really) FFXIV "Rant"
Shiymmas
Member UncommonPosts: 587
To start; this is a long post. Frankly it probably looks longer thanks to the inclusion of pictures (yay for visuals), but if you don't care to read, don't bother to post. No TL;DR here. I'm writing this up and posting this here because of what I've seen (and as importantly, haven't seen) from FFXIV. Combine that with the vitriolic nature of the posts on this game's forum and the constant battle of 'Fanboi vs. Hater' and it's just gotten ridiculous. Both sides are wrong, and quite frankly pointless. Neither side tries to understand the other, and the rest of everyone else in the middle very likely just gets turned off and doesn't bother. It's absurd, and folks need to work on their rapport here a bit. After all, we're all gamers, so no sense in all the disrespect.
In that spirit, I decided to go back and post my initial experiences in FFXI. Partially, it's to show the people who've likely viewed me as a hater of FFXIV where I'm coming from, and partially to explain why I'm still here, interested in FFXIV. It's quite clear that there are those of us around here that at least share love for FFXI, and if nothing else are disappointed right now with how FFXIV turned out and are watching and waiting for it to improve. While I can't speak for the rest of everyone else, there's plenty of others that are interested for their own, non-spiteful reasons that are also disappointed. Labeling all of us as 'haters' or 'trolls' is as ridiculous as calling anyone who is enjoying FFXIV in its current state a 'fanboi'. Clearly, when logic is thrown out the window on either side and logical discussion ceases to exist, people have let themselves fall into one of those types, but feeding and responding to them in kind certainly doesn't help. People just need to chill out in general. So, if you got this far, and loved FFXI, are enjoying FFXIV, or are just bored, then read on...
_______________________________________________________________
FFXI was my first MMORPG. I'd just finally cancelled my Planetside sub due to SOE's poor handling and decisions, and joined FFXI with a sizable group from my outfit (there were about 8 of us). Most of them had gone out and gotten their copy on release day for NA, but I was a couple days late due to having no local stores to purchase from short of just over a 1hr round trip that couldn't be taken immediately. To be more exact, the game released on a Tuesday, and I picked up my copy that Friday evening. After a somewhat awkward trip into the mall's Electronics Boutique (I live in the middle of nowhere, Mississippi.. I was almost emberassed to buy the title at that time), I was happily on my way home with a fresh copy of FFXI.
When I first cranked the game up, even though it was less my taste back then, the FFXI intro music put me in a certain place for sure, and it was nice. I hadn't set the graphics up yet, but regardless of looking like a console game at character creation, it wasn't bad (even on my shoddy old 19" CRT back then). Going through the various races, it was kinda neat to see the avatars move around as you chose options. I ended up going with a mithra, primarily because my buddies had told me noone had chosen thief, and I knew from a scant amount of research that mithra had the best starting stats for the job, and I'll be frank - I thought the thing was too damn cute not to play. After giving her a name and getting a code from my outfit for the server to join (Bismarck), and which town everyone started in (San d'Oria) I finished up character creation.
Getting into the world, the initial cutscene almost caught me off-guard. I quickly paid attention and started reading as quickly as I could. Cool stuff, but I still can't remember what that damned thing said. Once in control of my character, I was dead lost. Moving my mouse around was futile - there was nothing to click. Using usual keyboard controls did nothing. WSADQE etc. seemed to have no effect whatsoever. After laughing at me on vent for a moment, my outfit mates finally explained what I needed to do. After a few awkward moments of trying to figure out moving the camera while running as my left hand sat practically useless - for a change - I started to get a sense of things. It wasn't long before I was getting my first quest and heading out to West Ronfaure.
Just outside the gates, I was greeted by a rabbit.
Errrrr no, that's not right....
Yeah, that's more like it! I found myself laughing initially, making fun of the little runts I saw around me. I'd already been bet that a bunny would kick my ass, and now seeing them in the game, I thought surely that was a joke! No freakin' way. Suffice to say; I almost got my ass handed to me by one of the little bastards. As I fought through a handful - resting and listening to the others discuss the game - I started to get a little tired and realized a couple hours had passed and it was getting late, so off to bed I went.
Finally, it's the weekend. I logged in - excited no less - and pop up in my mog house. I have to say; mog houses and moogles were a bit of a stretch for me at first, but grew on me fast. Anyway, back to my adventuring, I decided to explore San d'Oria while I was still in town. I went store-to-store, talking to NPCs, learning what was what, and just checking the place out.
I was in awe of it all, really. I hadn't touched a single-player game in a year or so at the time; basically sticking to multi-player shooters and, of course, Planetside which I'd beta-tested and played right through release. The graphics - while not the most jaw-dropping in the world - were appealing somehow and the game ran well on my old PC. The art design and thought that clearly went into building what I was running around in was just awesome. You could easily see the effort to create a truly virtual world. The walkways busy with other players, the sounds of it all, the look of the whole thing; it just all fit together perfectly.
The weekend flew by. I can't really recall how far I got, or how fast (I guess 6 years and 11 months does that...), but the game grew on me much faster than anything I'd played before. The music; the world; the monsters; the difficulty; the feeling of being completely and utterly lost in a strange new world; the entire ambiance of the game drew me in very quickly. From being blown up for the first time by a goblin, to being chased around campfires by bats, orcs, and of course, rabbits, to my first trip into Ghelsba Outpost; it was a pretty magical experience. Obviously, I was hooked.
It wasn't long before I found myself out of the sometimes dreary Ronfaures and into La Theine Plateau. What an awesome change of scenery! Done with baby orcs, bats, and the occasional goblin, I was somewhere around level ten and looking for some fresh mobs to hunt with a buddy. It wasn't long before we found ourselves at a really interesting area near a pond where some fellow adventurers were fighting.
After killing a few worms and some sheep, we decided it was all too easy, and observed the small group of three for a few minutes. It wasn't long before they noticed us and struck up a conversation as they rested. We were asked to join their group, and for the first time I was in an exp party! How awesome it was just to see the five of us plow through the little crabs at that pond, raking in the experience! Eventually, tired from fighting, and getting late into the evening we all went our seperate ways, excited to have met new people and to have had such a good time talking, killing, and doing our jobs in a slightly more proper group than we'd had before.
Clearly, having had my first taste for grouping, I wanted more. The next day, I heard about a place that was just right for my level and was supposedly where everyone goes at that point; Valkurm Dunes. I made the long journey from San d'Oria to Valkurm, where as soon as I entered I saw groups of people fighting monsters. As I made my way through, watching groups as I passed, I couldn't get over some of the fights I saw (or some of the deaths!). It wasn't long before I was asked to join a group that had noticed me there alone and had just come into the area. I happily accepted and we made our way further in. As we neared the spot we'd soon set up camp - dodging giant flies, mean-looking goblins, and even some skeletons - I was asked if I knew how to renkei. I had absolutely no clue what this guy was talking about, and he could tell from my lack of a sub-job and proper gear that I was pretty new. He explained to me what I needed to do in the party: where to stand, how to time my weapon skill to link with my team, and how the group would work together in general.
As time passed, my original circle of friends dwindled. Some of them quit to look for something new. Some just stopped logging in. Some returned to Planetside. After a short few weeks, I found that I was not alone, but not with the folks that brought me to the game. My friend list had grown, I'd joined a linkshell, and had recently met a fella that guided me on my first trip to Jeuno, however. My trip there, through Jugner Forest and Batallia Downs had followed my completion of the sub-job quest, as well as reaching level 18 and leveling my new sub to 9. I no longer looked as much like a noob, and I certainly felt like I'd made some serious progress to have finally arrived at the game's central city. Albeit bittersweet given the steady detachment of my former friends, it was nevertheless exciting.
_______________________________________________________________
Honestly, I could go on and on about the whole time I played that game. To this day, I still remember the names of zones, some of the quests, and some of the more challenging NM's. However, that'd make this post obscenely long, possibly boring, and I've already got enough here to get to the point.
One of the most disappointing things about FFXIV so far - IMO - is that not only did I not get any degree of those feelings when I was in OB (aside from a nostalgia rush hearing the music, seeing the races, and enjoying the opening cutscene), but I've yet to see any type of impressions (obviously reviews are still to come) that come even close to the way I felt about FFXI. However, I didn't make this post to debate the flaws or strengths of the game, but to see how other folks feel about it, or even how much they enjoyed FFXI. All I've seen in the past month is "this game is awesome!" or "this game sucks" and while the latter has listed many reasons, the former hasn't given much in the way of positives aside from the usual arguing points. Personally, I miss going through what I did when I started up fresh in that game, and while a couple games since have certainly given me similar feelings, I was definitely hoping that FFXIV would be the latest, especially given that I'm no more a fan of dumbed-down instant gratification than anyone else. So let's hear more than just "FFXIV rocks!" or FFXIV sucks!".
Oh, and btw; while the screens I used above were found through google, my avatar here is in fact my toon from back then, and just to share, here's a couple other 6 y/o screens that are still sitting around on my HD.
And of course, my old forum sig from back then...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Comments
I just read everything through. I don't feel like explaining once again the various "good" or "bad" aspects of FF XIV, as I've pretty much said about anything I had to say on it--until it evolves. Two things, though:
- Albeit from a different game, my coming into MMO had a relatively common taste as yours, or so it seems as I read your post. Which is why I totally agree (or relate) with pretty much all you say here. Believe me when I say "I hear you".
- Thank you. Really. That was a really nice read. For a change on this forum. We Mogs thank you very much, Sir. Oh and please do keep writing! : )
You directed me over to this from the other thread, so I guess you want a reply on it.
Most of your thread is discussing that you had a great experience in Final Fantasy XI. It didn't last forever, but you know, nothing does.
Finally, you get to the point you had to say about Final Fantasy XIV:
One of the most disappointing things about FFXIV so far - IMO - is that not only did I not get any degree of those feelings when I was in OB (aside from a nostalgia rush hearing the music, seeing the races, and enjoying the opening cutscene), but I've yet to see any type of impressions (obviously reviews are still to come) that come even close to the way I felt about FFXI. However, I didn't make this post to debate the flaws or strengths of the game, but to see how other folks feel about it, or even how much they enjoyed FFXI. All I've seen in the past month is "this game is awesome!" or "this game sucks" and while the latter has listed many reasons, the former hasn't given much in the way of positives aside from the usual arguing points. Personally, I miss going through what I did when I started up fresh in that game, and while a couple games since have certainly given me similar feelings, I was definitely hoping that FFXIV would be the latest, especially given that I'm no more a fan of dumbed-down instant gratification than anyone else. So let's hear more than just "FFXIV rocks!" or FFXIV sucks!".
What I'm getting from this is you're saying here is Final Fantasy XIV didn't "click" for you like Final Fantasy XI did. And that's tricky. How can you, as a developer, make a game "click?" And I think the answer is that this will be subjective, you have to hope you can make it click.
Did Final Fantasy XIV click for me? I'm going to say yes, not as strongly as some games have, I don't think any game will "click" as much as one's first will because there's more to learn the first time, but there have been many sights in Final Fantasy XIV that took my breath away. Walking into the central bazaar of Ul'dah and Gridania the first time - there's great architexture to be found everywhere, but these scenes are really set up well. Coming across a pond or river in The Great Shroud. Crossing those big bridges on the way in and out of Gridania. The initial interactive cutscenes when you start the game (any of the three are rather remarkable). If these things are just a sample of what is to come, I'm looking forward to what we've yet to see.
I'll put it this way, Geldon; I went into FFXI having just left a game that I both beta tested, and paid for to beta test. I had nothing but love for Planetside, but when SOE decided to dump an expansion on us barely 5 months into release while bugs, balance issues, and stability were still major issues for everyone, my friends and I were done. It's also worth a mention that I'd been gaming at that point for over 5 years on the PC, and that covered a pretty broad spectrum of titles and genres. So why is that noteworthy? Because while FFXI popped my MMORPG cherry, it wasn't even close to my first game. I'd played RPG's before, so I had some vague concept of what to expect.
Regardless, there were no inherent flaws that ruined the fun. I didn't notice the UI after a day in-game. I almost never felt the combat to be "slow" or "clunky" because I ran my character with bound macros and played the busiest job in the game (bard). In fact, the only time I'd have a complaint about combat is when soloing and if you knew much about FFXI, you'd know bard had practically no ability to kill -anything-. Even with my joyeuse and scorp harness+1 (owned mostly for my thief) I couldn't really kill anything. Of course, that didn't matter because I rarely did anything at all without at least a partner, or a group.
The point is to give a little bit of perspective towards FFXIV. I mean, maybe there are people that are just as awed by it as I was FFXI. I want to see that if they are. There's plenty of other threads to discuss why it isn't as awe-inspiring, so that's why I request it be left out.
Edit: I guess in a way, I'm almost challenging people to show me the good that isn't
necessarily subjective opinion, but more the actual nature of the game. The only things thus far that are universally agreed upon is that the game has good graphics, nice music, and good animation. I guess that leads to some potential for interest, but where's the part that makes you sit back and go "damn, that's cool" besides a nice-looking vista. FFXI's group mechanics were pretty fantastic and ground-breaking for its time, and the depth of quests was awesome. People talk about horizontal progression; well, FFXI kept me from hitting cap for months and not just because of a leveling curve. There was just so much to do between unlocking sub-jobs, getting your chocobo license, your airship pass, your artifact quests, farming NM's for gil, working on faction quests, and the list goes on.
Hell, just getting an exp party and going to a dungeon was thoroughly entertaining and never felt like a grind. One of my favorite memories was while leveling in Garlaige Citadel killing beetles in the lower area. It was pretty late that night and it was my first time in there. Party was going great, and out of nowhere Serket popped up and started killing everyone in the area. Talk about awesome. I mean this massive scorpion just starts jumping around, kicking ass galore. I didn't even mind the lost exp. Even more fun was watching - from a very safe distance - a high-level alliance take him down over the course of about 45 minutes or more. Seeing that fight was just more motivation to get further in the game.
Again, I know it hasn't been long since FFXIV hit head-start, but where's the stuff that stands out as memorable?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I don't think it's too difficult for a developer to figure out how to make a game "click" with most players. After you read the OP's entire post you can get a feel for what his favorite game had and what the current one didn't.
I agree with the fact that something is missing from the game. It's called immersion.
Once a player feels immersed in an MMO's game world nothing else matters. It is difficult to explain what immersion in an MMO is which is why the best way to communicate it is through giving examples like the OP did here.
We all need to get inside the skin of our avatar. We need to be given a feeling that we are in a real world. We need to feel that the world we are in is a wondrous, mysterious and dangerous place.
Elements that take away from immersion:
most adventure is only found though missions - takes away from the incentive to explore
trash mobs - when most of everything you encounter is a trash mob (ph) it just feels like a grind
"mission only mobs" that only your group can see and/or kill is just plain fake
auto-teleporting after missions reduced the game world and makes it feel alot smaller than it is
awkward game user interface becomes tedious and reminds you that you are playing a game and not really the moogle you thought you were.
when you are not unique - every other player can be anything and everything. Who wants to be just a number in their virtual world? We already feel like that enough in RL
Nice post Shiymmas, thanks for taking the time to put it out here.
I basically consider what i'm experiencing right now to be the base product of whats coming later on.
I wouldn't say the game itself has grabbed me say in the way the original EQ did (my first MMO) but its got my interests up and i'm enjoying what has so far been implemented, its not perfect but its playable. I really want to see where the game goes from here and thats why i'll be continuing my subscription at the end of my 30 days.
I consider this right now to be my investment into my future entertainment, if I didn't feel that way I wouldn't be extending my playtime.
I actually think I like SE for trying something a little different with this game and thats why i'm hoping the best for it. They could have just made a FFXI version 2.0 but they didn't, they could have also tried to go with say a WoW feeling type of game like so many others have and yet they didn't do that either, they kind of went off on their own and I personally find that quite appealing.
I'm not saying the game is "innovative" or "ground breaking" in any way. Just that I consider it to be different from the games I've been playing lately.
They could have gone the easy way and put an AH in at release and yet they put their own spin on the bazaar at least for now. (I'm still not entirely convinced they'll be putting an AH in later on, impression i'm getting is they want to develop their current system further but who knows)
They could have gone with a "rested/bonus" type exp system in and instead they put in the fatigue system.
Crafting/gathering could have been reduced to a single click of a button like alot of the other games instead they chose to make it interactive and more engaging (or tedious
depending on how you see it).
They could have put markers up for quest givers and instead they mostly localized where the quests are given out.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they were all the "right" descisions or "wrong" descisions but its the way they've chosen to do things and as a consumer I can either accept that and play or not agree with it and decide to not play or the 3rd option of waiting until later on to make the descision after the game has had some time to grow.
I'm very much bored with most of the crap I see on these forums and the only real reason I felt compelled to comment is because you obviously took a lot of time and put alot of thought into what you where posting. At this point I don't really feel like coming here to discuss the game itself but instead if i'm going to comment I try to keep it to the content of the thread. People can decide for themselves at this point if they want to play or not or if they should wait its not my place to justify or condemn and while I have my own opinions I feel there is far to much opinion on here and not enough actual information.
very well done indeed and a very good example of what is missing in FF XIV. Sure FF XI too was no way near a perfect game at the start and it could be extremely frustrating and, yes, boring at times. The Interface was clunky, the traveling was obscene but in the end we sendured this, because there was a certain charme or "magic" about the whole experience. And this is exactly what FF XIV is sorely lacking. Everyone will endure bad performance or sub-par interfaces as long as that certain spark is in there. FF XIV however is as soulless as the next F2P copy/paste game like "Runes of Magic" or whatever that junk is called, just sugarcoated with a big budget. Same as FF XIII btw but at least i was able to sell that.
I can agree wholeheartedly with the OP on this. ffxi was love in first sight in many things for me and as i have stated before. when i got into closed beta for ff14 all it did was ugre me to play good ol ffxi. 14 just didnt strike the chord yet on me which is why im going to wait.
big reason why. i was aware ffxi was released in japan for a darn while and when it hit na it already came out with an expantionpack.
the game was solid , smooth and basicly bug free, interface didnt suffer lag ect. This is why im gonna wait those 6 months before i plunge into the game. by then many immersion breaking factors will be fixed.
I've read mmorpg forums for quite a few years now, and I've never felt the urge to post anything until I read this (hence this being my first and only post.) I understand the whole "the game is only a week old" argument, however... I completely agree with the OP. The graphics are wonderful, and the cut-scenes are absolutely beautiful... but I feel like I'm wearing horse-blinders, grinding my way to the next installment of the one single quest-line they have laid out for you. Sure, you can pick up levequests in between... every day and a half... but they're all mindless grinding. There's no story involved. As you level, you get sent to a further camp, which just turns out to be a mirror of the camp you were just in... and when you run out of battle levequests, you have to turn to harvesting or crafting. Honestly, I like how they implemented mining and synthesizing, I really do... and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death... but the interface delay is so horrible..... I can honestly only get through about 10 pieces of whatever I'm making, be it bronze plate or sheep leather, before I start to fall asleep. I'm already to the point where I tried to log in today, but all of my levequests are completed...... so I just logged right back out. Am I missing something? Am I wrong for expecting a little more than a bunch of grinding and crafting/trading?
I'll give it a little more time... but so far, I can't help but feel disappointed.
You had mentioned that FFXI was your first mmorpg. That's almost nuff said. The spark of adventure and discovery that the true newbie has is something that's hard to reproduce for gamers that have been playing the genre for a substantial period of time. I have fond memories of EQ(my first 3d mmorpg) for reasons similar to yours. I also have fond memories of AO, AC, & SWG. They had nearly the same effect on me as EQ all for different reasons but none were perfect. Problem is we as players have become jaded. We expect and in some cases demand a lvl of development that has never really existed(content is subject to change). So we throw our money at new titles looking for the complete package trying to find that spark we once experienced. It's likely not going to happen for 95% of the player community. Luckily for the communities and developers there is that 5% with fresh interest in the product. Sometimes those newbs can make the community worth participating in. Hopefully they havent read some of the garbage on these and other forums.
The Black Company UNLEASH TEH HOUNDS!
TL:DNR
Sharess Dragonstar - Midgard
Grievance is recruiting.
These were my feelings exactly. It seems almost like they took the worst, most arduous and tedious parts of any given older-style mmo and left out the rest. People can defend it any way they want, but they're really isn't much more to the game then what you listed, at least not yet. The graphics, music, and story (the bit I was able to see anyway) are really the only aspects I enjoyed.
Also, great post Shiymmas - I was also an avid FFXi player and aside from EQ (my first mmo) I spent more time playing it consistently than any other. The poster saying, "All I had to see was that it was your first, nuff said" is pretty far off as far as I'm concerned. I played about 4 or 5 mmos before FFXI, and it was the one of the only to immerse me in the way it did. It was and is and excellent game and If I still had the same kind of time on my hands, I'd most likely still be playing.
All that said, I really, really wanted to like FFXIV, but in it's current state, I just don't see myself spending a monthly fee to play it.
I'd have to agree with Zed. I could take that story, change the names places and pictures and it would be basically what i felt.
Thats not to demean yours in anyway. It's more of to say this is how MMOs are. The first one is the greatest. Everything is new, everything is fresh and everything feels great. Your basically just in a wonderland of sorts. Then you get used to it. It's still nice but the shine of it wears off. The problem is after you get tired of your first (which happens eventually) you start looking for others to rekindle that first flame or keep it lite if you are still with your first.
This is where the problem is. From my experience most MMOs are repetative in nature (not that EQ wasn't but by the time i noticed it was it didn't matter) but other games were even more repetative compared to how my first MMO , why? because i'm not really learning anything new, i already know most of this stuff and it feels like i move backwards whenever i move to a new MMO. (not just progression but the friends as well) I have to start all over from scratch, rebuild the character, rebuild my friend network, rebuild everything. Sure the land looks nice but it's still inventory, equipment, stats, kill monsters to level. Do quests to get xp yadda yadda. This I think is the core problem unless the WOW factor (the expression not the game ;P) returns we get bored. Not really the games fault it's just the buzz wears off and we see MMOs for what they really are. Grind feast with quests. Theres no variety.
I can show you an example of this shine. I played EQ, it was everything i wanted, the worlds were cool, the places were cool. Fighting monsters was great. I left because of a dispute in the guild. I tried to come back later and remake my character hoping for that rekindle, it worked the first time, surely the design of the game will grab me again, it did the first time. So i reloged back into EQ and remade my barbarian shaman everything was the same, even the graphics, how i remembered that 5 years later i don't know but anyway. I played for a little bit. Then saw exactly what i saw in other games. grinding and doing quests. Gathering materials. The spark of the game was essentially gone. I don't recommend trying this yourself it's not a happy thing.
So i'm not sure if it's the core mechanics that are wrong or if it's the players themselves just getting used to the genre. Something needs to happen to take us by surprise like the first game did and give us the WOW factor back, i think thats what hooked us in the first place.
How to get that WOW factor back is a good question, one i've yet to come up with an answer to. I'm hoping these latest crop of games will do it. I'm not sure though. The games are nice but it's gotta have that charm to do it. It's easy to over look bugs or problems when your enjoying yourself. But if all you see is, landscape, creatures, levels, stats, monsters, same thing in every other MMO the bugs become readily more apparent and a bigger problem. Of course this is all just my opinion but thats how i see it personally.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I also agree with others, your story could with a few slight tweek's be my first weeks in WOW and I vouch that many others would say the same thing about their first MMO. This is just the wonder of a new experience that only happens once, my solution to this is to not have any expectations of whatever I am venturing into, be objective about what you find interesting in a games design before you spend your money and then just let the experience open up as you play and if things feel different in the game try to ask yourself why did they do these things this way, put yourself in the developers shoes so to say. I find that I enjoy many more things this way be it music, films, video games ect... I see far too much expectation put on these things that ruin the experience as those expectations will never be met and with that people allow PR to be more a powerful tool than it should be by letting the media control these expectations through hype.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I'll start by saying thanks for the replies so far. Glad to see folks taking the time to read and give some thoughtful replies.
For those of you speaking about expectations and being jaded; while relevant to the topic, understand that it's irrelevent to my point. I posted my initial experience in FFXI in the hopes that others would be able to do so with FFXIV. Surely not everyone who passes this way is a 'jaded gamer with expectations'. I was wanting to see if anyone had gotten those feelings from FFXIV and thus far, noone has responded in that way. Maybe they're too busy being engrossed by the game to post right now? Maybe noone that comes here has managed to feel that way? Whatever the reason, it's still what I've not seen, and that has no bearing own my own status as jaded or burned-out.
At any rate, I'm glad several of you have felt this way about the post because it gives me the opportunity to specifically address that personally. It wasn't necessarily my intention to reflect the potential first experiences of other players, but it's cool to see that people can (and have) relate to it that way. It's unfortunate, however, that the urge to respond for a few of you (not necessarily directed at anyone inparticular) was based on the need to point out this issue.
The reality is that - yes - many gamers are jaded. They do go into anything new with expectations that are way too high to ever be met. To assume, however, that any player who has ever set foot into an MMO - be it their first, their second, their last or their favorite - will automatically hold their next to the same standards would be folly. It's self-projection at its best in the way I see it used in posts on these forums in a lot of cases. Sure, the poster may have had some epiphany at one point or another that changed the way they view things (which is why I quoted Cal. rather than others) but some may still feel that way, regardless of knowing that about themselves. At the same time, it's probably a good thing to put out there from time to time to help others realize those things themselves.
As for me personally; I don't consider myself jaded - by any of its definitions - at all. I'm not burnt-out, either. I haven't had an MMO that I've been dedicated to for well over a year - when I played EQ2 for several months. Since then, I've hopped into Aion for just about 6 weeks, Darkfall for about 5 weeks, and Fallen Earth for just over 3 weeks when MMORPG.com passed out free copies of the game back in March this year. I'd say at this point I'm starving for something decent to play. I've always managed to find and enjoy the good in any MMO that grabbed me for more than the initial "well this looks interesting" or "this looks like crap" phases, and I've always been the type to give practically any game a chance. Not that it's relevant, but I'm the same with music and enjoy songs from most genres out there. More to the point; I've spent serious time in games like Space Cowboys (the original release), RFO (was there on release day from Codemasters), and Atlantica Online (spent about 4 or 5 months in that game, breaking 110 on my main spending a bare min in cash shop). I go into each game that serves as more than a passing interest and enjoy it on its own merits. In fact, the only real 'expectations' I hold for any game is that it runs well on my PC, stimulates me visually, and is fun. To look back at the games I've enjoyed through the years, none of them are very similar. I mean, in spite of dumping it 5 weeks in (said 'No, thanks' to the life-devouring grind), Darkfall suited my tastes just as well as FFXI and I could make a similar post to my OP above for it, or any other game I can list. To wrap it up, it doesn't really matter for me whether I see the 'wizard behind the curtain' - so to speak - or not. Understanding the mechanics of a game is always something I strive to do as I want to get better at a game as I play. For me, knowing the ins and outs of the stats, inventory and getting down to becoming effecient with it all doesn't kill the fun. I can see where it might for some, though (whilan).
"I could take that story, change the names places and pictures and it would be basically what I felt. Thats not to demean yours in anyway. It's more of to say this is how MMOs are."
Wanted to address this specifically. I think that it's more of how people are, and it goes beyond games. What you're describing is more what I'd call first-kiss syndrome. It's that excitement you get when you try something new. That thrill and nervousness of it all (kinda covered in my bit about being lost in a new game). It's really down to the individual and how they view things. If you take an experience in life and only view it through the rosiest of tinted goggles, then surely no similar experience will excite you. If you can take that same experience and view it for what it is, then reset yourself for the next, you'll enjoy life in general far more. I legitimately got the feelings I had for FFXI the other night as I wrote this and searched the net for appropriate pictures that fit the story and its mood (hope someone caught how those worked together :P). I can do the same for each game as I think about them. I can say the same for anything in life, in fact. It's more than just remembering the positives of an experience. It's about being able to take the good and the bad and truly understanding what you got from something. People in general have a tendency to only remember the good of things and forget the bad, never having taken the time to really analyze what things meant to them. It's at that point they lose their perspective and become jaded, whether through negative or positive experiences, and can no longer be refreshed by that thing, whatever it may be. At any rate, that's how I manage to get that WOW! feeling back and keep my expectations in check. Sure, I'll never have that experience I had in FFXI again, but it'd be dumb for me not to open myself up for a new experience that might be even better.
Anyway, I'm obviously veering pretty far off-course of my own OP at this point, and I definitely don't want to steer this away from FFXIV, but I felt that needed to be put out there. Still looking for indications that FFXIV might be a place to find that kind of experience be it now, or in time after fixes and updates.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I stand corrected, your right it's probably more about the people then the game. I'll agree with you on that. I'm also really hoping i can get that new WOW experience back myself (i'm glad you have) in TOR.
But to get back more on topic. the reason i didn't get that great feeling of the game was simply because i felt i was coming in the middle of a good book. I missed something in 7 that for some reason (my own entirely) that would have helped me better understand 14. I don't think it's the games fault i think it's that i didn't fit into that community. I was someone on the outside trying to see what it was like.
The game was fun to me. I enjoyed my caster and everything was smooth (for me) and it looked great. I really liked that conjurer. It's just for me i felt like i was coming in at act 5 of 10 instead of 1. That and i wasn't planing on starting the game right back up which tends to kill alot of the joy of playing an OB. I did play 11 a bit but i didn't really care for it too much ( simply couldn't get past that akward camera controls, call me lazy but i hate reverse controls and trying to navigate that menu with a keyboard/mouse. thats me though and not really a fault with the game)
Anyway those are my thoughts and i won't keep partially derailing your threads with my rambling. I'll let others speak up now :P
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think the OP has put everyone is the mood to play FFXI again! Certainly got me excited! lol
I never played FFXI, but I can describe what I think about FFXIV so far. First let me just say I have never been a big Final Fantasy fan. The first ff game I played was FFX and I hated it(not going into the details right now only because it would be to long of a rant). From that point on I completely wrote of all FF games.
I have always been more of a western gamer; I love western style RPG like the Ultima series, Diablo, NeverWinter Nights, Fallout(yes even 3), and Dragon Age Origins(just to name a few well known ones). Ultima Online was the first MMORPG I ever played and I enjoyed it, but felt it was just to simplistic(at the time) for my tastes.
Then WoW came out. Wow what a game. Did the 14 day trial (when it came out) and never subbed. I even tried SWG for awhile.
To keep this short I am going to speed passed all the rest and come straight to FFXIV. I had no interest in this game whatsoever (the memory of FFX made sure of that). I did not even follow it. Then Pax rolled around and I watched Spoonies review of the FFXIV presentation; I felt vindicated for my general disdain for FFXIV, but I did think the graphics looked good and I heard that it was in OB.
So three days after I started downloading it(seriously SE fix the damn Patcher !), I got to try it out. I was blown away. this was what I had been looking for. So here is the short review I did to sum up how I first felt about this after playing for a few days.
First off let me state I really do like this game, so I am going to start with my likes then move to my dislikes.
What I Like!
The Graphics: Yes I had to say the obvious this game looks really good. I don't have a high end PC, but my three year old laptop has no problem running this game on standard. It really does look good.
The Sound: It really makes you feel like you are really there. From the chirping of the birds during the day to thy whining of the crickets at night it really sounds authentic.
The Music: I did this separate from the sound only because it is in a class of its own. I can not think of a MMO with better music; It really is wonderful.
The Gameplay: It is slow and to me that is a good thing. It allows me to really become absorbed into the world around me. Naturally I am the type of guy who tries to hit max in a week, but this game makes me sit back and actually appreciate the world around me.
The Combat: Just like the rest of the game it is slow, so it takes a bit of thinking to be good at it
What I don't like!
The Graphics: Because the game is so graphic intensive it takes some tweaking to make it play smoothly on older machines. I hope they put a system optimizer in the game in the future.
The Music: While I do love the music and there is a great deal of it in the game, so far I have only been able to hear a small portion of it in-game and it does get a bit repetitive.
Chat: What can I say it just does not work real well and lacks any real customization options. While this is not a game-breaker it certainly needs some work.
The UI: Yes it is clunky at first and I can understand why people don't like it, but since they added the option for the hardware cursor it has reduced lag exponentially. Hopefully over time SE will find ways to make this better.
The Lack of Tutorials: This game is not forgiving to the lazy. It takes allot of time to learn the different aspects of combat and crafting. Honestly I think they could do a better job in this area.
Over all I am having a great time playing this. If I was to rate this game a 1 out of 10 it would be a 7.9 in my opinion. It is allot of fun, but does have a steep learning curve. The game will make you read all the quest information, because it really does not give you any type of map markers(for the exception of Guildleves, they do have an arrow to point you in the direction you need to go). But in all fairness this is not a bad game. Does it need some work? Yes, but what MMORPG does not need work.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
I love your text, OP! Especially the writing of how tiresome the fanboi versus hater wars are.
Nice writeup.
I agree completely OP.
XIV has a long, freaking way to go to just appeal in a general sense towards new and experienced MMO players. Me and a buddy have been playing MMO for years, which includes XI, and XIV really is at the bottom of the pile to introducing a game. Even with my XI experience, it just felt amateurish.
I've been playing Vindictus along with XIV lately, and I definitely have more fun in the former. And with the DCUO beta starting soon enough, that game will probably kill what little enthusiasm I have left of XIV.
Seriously little fanboys. Ask yourselves this. After over 5 years of development, and having a MMO development experience that's probably one of the deepest in the industry, what exactly has SE accomplished with XIV? Even the most hardcore of XI players I know have mixed views with XIV. I do too. There isn't really an identity with XIV.
And you cannot ignore the amount of contraversy and hot topics that XIV managed to garner. There is a reason for that. It's easy to see what...what exactly has SE done for the past 5 years to bring us this MMO that feels lack luster overall?