I mean come on buddy, what did you think, seriously?
To give a moment for the idea of WoW killer. The only possible move to kill WoW is in the hands of Blizzard and even then it would not die totally since the certain fanbase is immovable as we have seen in many games, and especially in SWG(CU/NGE) since I dont recall ever a dev team F&%king over a playerbase so purely and still it didn't kill the game.
Oh joy, a WoW-killer thread. I fully admit that I am a GW2 fanboy, but seriously, these types of threads get old. Does it matter if it kills WoW? Not really, will it? Probably not because of its payment type. C'mon people, there is room for more than 1 big MMO, can't we all just coexist? Plenty of room in the market.
But WOW has one trick left up its sleeve. Once Cata hits it will be big. But after that Blizzard will begin to focus on their upcoming Next Gen MMO. 6 months to a year from Cata hitting At least 3 big AAA titles wil be released. WOW is very long in the tooth now and we will finally begin to see its users migrate to some of the other bigger better games. I never thought WAR or AOC or LOTRO would ever dent WOW. WOW was in its prime. Being all WOW like. But after all these years their dominance is waning. They dont have nearly the subs in the west they once did. In Asia? hell it may stay popular for years more to come.
They have leveled off around 11.5 million subs for the last couple of years, but will likely have more subscribers than they have ever had once Cata comes out.
You say that WoW doesn't have nearly the subs they used to have in NA. Since you have zero evidence to back this claim up, I'll assume that it's untrue.
A lot of people thought the exact same way that you did before Wrath of the Lich King hit. There were a bunch of AAA titles that came out and they all flopped. People kept playing WoW and everything looks fine for them. They actually increased their long term subscription numbers. I don't see any evidence of what you are saying anywhere.
But WOW has one trick left up its sleeve. Once Cata hits it will be big. But after that Blizzard will begin to focus on their upcoming Next Gen MMO. 6 months to a year from Cata hitting At least 3 big AAA titles wil be released. WOW is very long in the tooth now and we will finally begin to see its users migrate to some of the other bigger better games. I never thought WAR or AOC or LOTRO would ever dent WOW. WOW was in its prime. Being all WOW like. But after all these years their dominance is waning. They dont have nearly the subs in the west they once did. In Asia? hell it may stay popular for years more to come.
They have leveled off around 11.5 million subs for the last couple of years, but will likely have more subscribers than they have ever had once Cata comes out.
You say that WoW doesn't have nearly the subs they used to have in NA. Since you have zero evidence to back this claim up, I'll assume that it's untrue.
A lot of people thought the exact same way that you did before Wrath of the Lich King hit. There were a bunch of AAA titles that came out and they all flopped. People kept playing WoW and everything looks fine for them. They actually increased their long term subscription numbers. I don't see any evidence of what you are saying anywhere.
and since you linked data that is false, everything you have said must be untrue as well.
But WOW has one trick left up its sleeve. Once Cata hits it will be big. But after that Blizzard will begin to focus on their upcoming Next Gen MMO. 6 months to a year from Cata hitting At least 3 big AAA titles wil be released. WOW is very long in the tooth now and we will finally begin to see its users migrate to some of the other bigger better games. I never thought WAR or AOC or LOTRO would ever dent WOW. WOW was in its prime. Being all WOW like. But after all these years their dominance is waning. They dont have nearly the subs in the west they once did. In Asia? hell it may stay popular for years more to come.
They have leveled off around 11.5 million subs for the last couple of years, but will likely have more subscribers than they have ever had once Cata comes out.
You say that WoW doesn't have nearly the subs they used to have in NA. Since you have zero evidence to back this claim up, I'll assume that it's untrue.
A lot of people thought the exact same way that you did before Wrath of the Lich King hit. There were a bunch of AAA titles that came out and they all flopped. People kept playing WoW and everything looks fine for them. They actually increased their long term subscription numbers. I don't see any evidence of what you are saying anywhere.
and since you linked data that is false, everything you have said must be untrue as well.
Oh, you think, for whatever reason, the number of subscribers WoW releases to it's shareholders every year is false. More power to you. It's all a conspiracy.
Edit: Anyway, that graph looks like it only goes up to the very beginning 2010. I'm sure we'll hear more about subs when they get all fat and happy on Cata. Here is a release from late 2008 right after Wrath hit:
Yeah this has been said multiple times throughout this thread... But no ONE game is going to kill WoW. They have a set playerbase that will keep playing it until Blizzard stops making content for it. That's the ONLY way WoW will fade. I'm not saying GW2 won't be good, but I do know that if I personally had to choose between GW2 and WoW I'd stick with WoW. I haven't followed GW2 or had the urge to follow it since I wasn't into the first one, and I'm sure there's alot of WoW players that are in the same boat.
You say that WoW doesn't have nearly the subs they used to have in NA. Since you have zero evidence to back this claim up, I'll assume that it's untrue.
A lot of people thought the exact same way that you did before Wrath of the Lich King hit. There were a bunch of AAA titles that came out and they all flopped. People kept playing WoW and everything looks fine for them. They actually increased their long term subscription numbers. I don't see any evidence of what you are saying anywhere.
There's no hard data, but there are the following food-for-thought arguments:
- since 2008, Blizzard stopped releasing separate sub numbers for the several regions.
- a few surveys and reports pointed out towards a drop in MMO gamers playing WoW in NA region, and a drop in WoW's market share (something from 62% to 54% a while ago, and in the surveys the number of MMO gamers playing WoW dropped to 30% or something). I think a few of those reports were posted on Massively.com and/or gamasutra.com.
This gives viable cause for the reasoning that the subs in US/EU could have gone down, but being compensated by the China subs. Ofc, this is pre-Cata.
Ontopic: come on, enough of the nonsense of this thread. Christ.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's pretty easy to resist, imo. Having so few skills on your bar sucks, and isn't interesting to play. Every sword warrior will have more than half of the same skills as every other sword warrior. Every staff elementalist will have more than half of the same skills as every other staff elementalist. (5 from weapon, then the heal). Likely there will be a handful of preferred elites, the rest being considered inferior or very specialized, so skill number 7 will be from a short list. This leaves 3 skills to play around with. Gee, three whole skills, all for me? Oh goodie goodie.
Gonna leave this game in the kindergarten yard where it belongs. It's pretty, but the crap skill selection is a total killer for me, and I was very into the original for a long time (still play once in a while, even). In spite of the lack of a monthly fee, I don't find this game to be worth the initial purchase price, no matter how much hype it gets (which, frankly, is beyond me why someone would hype this thing anyway).
Men the numbers will jump when the morons that play wow resub for the expansion. As seen in a youtube vid "They are just releasing another crappy expansion to be sold to idiots like you"
Also GW doesn't work on subscriptions. Least the first one so you can't compare numbers, since all u need to to buy the game and thats it. I seriously doubt any mmorpg will beat wow in subscription numbers, might be a better game yes, but in subs? probally not. Alot of mmorpg players of this current generation were intro'ed to mmo's by wow, and they have little to no idea what a real mmo was like. The problem here? They expect every mmo to be like wow, which actually is killing the mmo market. If people wanted to play WoW, they'd play WoW not some crappy clone. Devs need to stop trying to copy wow and do their own thing. Everytime I hear a dev say "its like wow" I just wanna shoot that dev team. FF14 may not be all that great but at least square didn't make yet another WoW clone wannabe, they targeted their own market and are doing fine, market being REAL mmo players and not the current gen wow instant gratification with no real work type that exist.
I hate WoW, not because its a bad game, but more so the fact the community sucks, Ex-WoW players are usually annoying when they play other mmo's (tend to whine how the game is not like wow and try to get it changed to be like wow) and also for the overall decline mmo's have taken since WoW's release. I don't remember the last time I played a good mmo since wow came out, closest would probally be FF11 but that I *think* came out before it.
I haven't really followed GW2 much, I personally though the first Guild war's sucked, just wasn't my kind of game I guess.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Originally posted by miagisan I am pretty sure....
we have seen topics like this for a lot of games.
seriously....100k or 100 million...does it really matter?
Not really, as long as the team is making a profit and keeps delivering content... to me, thats a success.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
seriously....100k or 100 million...does it really matter?
Not really, as long as the team is making a profit and keeps delivering content... to me, thats a success.
exactly my point. if they can have a thriving game with 100k players, 50k players, etc.... to have a good community and make profit then its a success. if a game has 1 million subs but is still losing money and has to shut its doors...it isnt. simple enough
When Cata hits it will be huge. The numbers will go up for WoW not down. I am willing to bet my shoe collection on it. There is no way the people who play WoW now not buying it and it will bring those who left back too since they are reinventing it.
It's fool's gold for you to hope for it to fall. Any one with any sense can see that WoW never behaved like anything before it in terms of success and it will continue in this way until Blizzard makes another MMO to take over. That is fine actually because there is obviously a market for that type of game. Hopefully other developers will realise this and stop trying to keep going after the WoW subscriber and make games that attract their own niche of a comfortable number like 300 k players.
I must say the total uproar and inability for the WoW player to play FFXIV is why WoW should stay successful so that those players stay in that game while the rest of us get to enjoy other games that do not try to be another WoW. I played WoW and I have no problem with it but I want variety and I welcome games like FFXIV because it opens people to other types of game play and hopefully make some fans of it even if they are kicking and screaming all the way there.
So please do not predict the failure of WoW but instead rejoice that their community and players stay there and far away from your game of choice. I am not saying this because I dislike WoW. No I like the game I just do not think I want their community on my other games.
When Cata hits it will be huge. The numbers will go up for WoW not down. I am willing to bet my shoe collection on it. There is no way the people who play WoW now not buying it and it will bring those who left back too since they are reinventing it.
It's fool's gold for you to hope for it to fall. Any one with any sense can see that WoW never behaved like anything before it in terms of success and it will continue in this way until Blizzard makes another MMO to take over. That is fine actually because there is obviously a market for that type of game. Hopefully other developers will realise this and stop trying to keep going after the WoW subscriber and make games that attract their own niche of a comfortable number like 300 k players.
I must say the total uproar and inability for the WoW player to play FFXIV is why WoW should stay successful so that those players stay in that game while the rest of us get to enjoy other games that do not try to be another WoW. I played WoW and I have no problem with it but I want variety and I welcome games like FFXIV because it opens people to other types of game play and hopefully make some fans of it even if they are kicking and screaming all the way there.
So please do not predict the failure of WoW but instead rejoice that their community and players stay there and far away from your game of choice. I am not saying this because I dislike WoW. No I like the game I just do not think I want their community on my other games.
Actually it seems a fair amount of current wow players arent getting the xpac. I know I'm not. The xpac looks decent enough. If I wasnt just plain tired of the game I would get it. But there are a few like me who have been playing since launch that are just plain tired of the game. Granted its changing alot of old content that make my eyes bleed but games just get stale after a while.
That said I'm lookin forward to GW2 but I'm also half expecting it to not deliver on half of what they are saying.
Shut up with the wow killer stuff ... its getting old.
Yes GW2 will be a great game, and I am sure it will draw alot of ppl from other mmo's. 2011 will be a good year for us that are waiting for the next MMO to play.
You're all dumb as hell and need to stfu. EQ>AC>WoW>common UI. Go outside for 5 minutes, I think the internet is rotting your brains or you really are very not good at life and have nothing better to do but argue about the word clone for pages on the internet. GG YOU WINZ THE INTERNET. Bunch of failboat 3000s looking for any excuse to flex epeens and how quick they can wikipedia words.
seriously....100k or 100 million...does it really matter?
Not at all. That number is broken up by servers anyway. Does it really matter how many people are playing on other servers when yours is capped? Such a broken argument, but the "numbers = truth" argument is always thrown out there by insecure people. Ke$ha sold a ton of albums, does that make her good?
Either way, GW2 will either be good or it won't be. That's how it always breaks down. The dev team can spin whatever they like and people can think whatever they like, but bottom line it's all rumours and spin. Every MMO goes through the same hype/hate cycle and you'd think people would learn but alas, screaming like children in line for the next tickle me elmo is human condition anymore.
seriously....100k or 100 million...does it really matter?
Not at all. That number is broken up by servers anyway. Does it really matter how many people are playing on other servers when yours is capped? Such a broken argument, but the "numbers = truth" argument is always thrown out there by insecure people. Ke$ha sold a ton of albums, does that make her good?
Either way, GW2 will either be good or it won't be. That's how it always breaks down. The dev team can spin whatever they like and people can think whatever they like, but bottom line it's all rumours and spin. Every MMO goes through the same hype/hate cycle and you'd think people would learn but alas, screaming like children in line for the next tickle me elmo is human condition anymore.
Actually.....no. It's not an "either or" situation. Some people will undoubtedly think GW2 is amazing....others....will not. Just like with WoW, EQ2, Aion, and every other game under the sun.
For someone giving other people shit about being stupid...I have to say that thinking in such black and white only terms....doesn't show a great degree of intelligence either. Whether a game is "good" is a pretty subjective judgment call when it comes to what players think.
I'm going to try GW2, but so far nothing is so uber awesome about it that will make me not play wow. It's B2P, so it doesn't interfere with wow's subscription, it is fantasy and not even a differentish fantasy game at that: just a typical world were some dominating evil unites everyone. It doesn't seem to have an interesting enough story. Character Development really doesn't seem that different (yes a class based game can have different character development). Its early so all those desires (and tons more) maybe answered, but as of now...no.
Comments
Big deal about "WoW killers" everything has an end why focus so much on it??
I'm pretty sure it won't...
I mean come on buddy, what did you think, seriously?
To give a moment for the idea of WoW killer. The only possible move to kill WoW is in the hands of Blizzard and even then it would not die totally since the certain fanbase is immovable as we have seen in many games, and especially in SWG(CU/NGE) since I dont recall ever a dev team F&%king over a playerbase so purely and still it didn't kill the game.
p.s. troll?
Oh joy, a WoW-killer thread. I fully admit that I am a GW2 fanboy, but seriously, these types of threads get old. Does it matter if it kills WoW? Not really, will it? Probably not because of its payment type. C'mon people, there is room for more than 1 big MMO, can't we all just coexist? Plenty of room in the market.
Disagreement Heirarchy
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png
They have leveled off around 11.5 million subs for the last couple of years, but will likely have more subscribers than they have ever had once Cata comes out.
You say that WoW doesn't have nearly the subs they used to have in NA. Since you have zero evidence to back this claim up, I'll assume that it's untrue.
A lot of people thought the exact same way that you did before Wrath of the Lich King hit. There were a bunch of AAA titles that came out and they all flopped. People kept playing WoW and everything looks fine for them. They actually increased their long term subscription numbers. I don't see any evidence of what you are saying anywhere.
and since you linked data that is false, everything you have said must be untrue as well.
Oh, you think, for whatever reason, the number of subscribers WoW releases to it's shareholders every year is false. More power to you. It's all a conspiracy.
Edit: Anyway, that graph looks like it only goes up to the very beginning 2010. I'm sure we'll hear more about subs when they get all fat and happy on Cata. Here is a release from late 2008 right after Wrath hit:
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/press/pressreleases.html?081121
Yeah this has been said multiple times throughout this thread... But no ONE game is going to kill WoW. They have a set playerbase that will keep playing it until Blizzard stops making content for it. That's the ONLY way WoW will fade. I'm not saying GW2 won't be good, but I do know that if I personally had to choose between GW2 and WoW I'd stick with WoW. I haven't followed GW2 or had the urge to follow it since I wasn't into the first one, and I'm sure there's alot of WoW players that are in the same boat.
There's no hard data, but there are the following food-for-thought arguments:
- since 2008, Blizzard stopped releasing separate sub numbers for the several regions.
- a few surveys and reports pointed out towards a drop in MMO gamers playing WoW in NA region, and a drop in WoW's market share (something from 62% to 54% a while ago, and in the surveys the number of MMO gamers playing WoW dropped to 30% or something). I think a few of those reports were posted on Massively.com and/or gamasutra.com.
This gives viable cause for the reasoning that the subs in US/EU could have gone down, but being compensated by the China subs. Ofc, this is pre-Cata.
Ontopic: come on, enough of the nonsense of this thread. Christ.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's pretty easy to resist, imo. Having so few skills on your bar sucks, and isn't interesting to play. Every sword warrior will have more than half of the same skills as every other sword warrior. Every staff elementalist will have more than half of the same skills as every other staff elementalist. (5 from weapon, then the heal). Likely there will be a handful of preferred elites, the rest being considered inferior or very specialized, so skill number 7 will be from a short list. This leaves 3 skills to play around with. Gee, three whole skills, all for me? Oh goodie goodie.
Gonna leave this game in the kindergarten yard where it belongs. It's pretty, but the crap skill selection is a total killer for me, and I was very into the original for a long time (still play once in a while, even). In spite of the lack of a monthly fee, I don't find this game to be worth the initial purchase price, no matter how much hype it gets (which, frankly, is beyond me why someone would hype this thing anyway).
Men the numbers will jump when the morons that play wow resub for the expansion. As seen in a youtube vid "They are just releasing another crappy expansion to be sold to idiots like you"
Also GW doesn't work on subscriptions. Least the first one so you can't compare numbers, since all u need to to buy the game and thats it. I seriously doubt any mmorpg will beat wow in subscription numbers, might be a better game yes, but in subs? probally not. Alot of mmorpg players of this current generation were intro'ed to mmo's by wow, and they have little to no idea what a real mmo was like. The problem here? They expect every mmo to be like wow, which actually is killing the mmo market. If people wanted to play WoW, they'd play WoW not some crappy clone. Devs need to stop trying to copy wow and do their own thing. Everytime I hear a dev say "its like wow" I just wanna shoot that dev team. FF14 may not be all that great but at least square didn't make yet another WoW clone wannabe, they targeted their own market and are doing fine, market being REAL mmo players and not the current gen wow instant gratification with no real work type that exist.
I hate WoW, not because its a bad game, but more so the fact the community sucks, Ex-WoW players are usually annoying when they play other mmo's (tend to whine how the game is not like wow and try to get it changed to be like wow) and also for the overall decline mmo's have taken since WoW's release. I don't remember the last time I played a good mmo since wow came out, closest would probally be FF11 but that I *think* came out before it.
I haven't really followed GW2 much, I personally though the first Guild war's sucked, just wasn't my kind of game I guess.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
I am pretty sure....
we have seen topics like this for a lot of games.
seriously....100k or 100 million...does it really matter?
Not really, as long as the team is making a profit and keeps delivering content... to me, thats a success.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
exactly my point. if they can have a thriving game with 100k players, 50k players, etc.... to have a good community and make profit then its a success. if a game has 1 million subs but is still losing money and has to shut its doors...it isnt. simple enough
When Cata hits it will be huge. The numbers will go up for WoW not down. I am willing to bet my shoe collection on it. There is no way the people who play WoW now not buying it and it will bring those who left back too since they are reinventing it.
It's fool's gold for you to hope for it to fall. Any one with any sense can see that WoW never behaved like anything before it in terms of success and it will continue in this way until Blizzard makes another MMO to take over. That is fine actually because there is obviously a market for that type of game. Hopefully other developers will realise this and stop trying to keep going after the WoW subscriber and make games that attract their own niche of a comfortable number like 300 k players.
I must say the total uproar and inability for the WoW player to play FFXIV is why WoW should stay successful so that those players stay in that game while the rest of us get to enjoy other games that do not try to be another WoW. I played WoW and I have no problem with it but I want variety and I welcome games like FFXIV because it opens people to other types of game play and hopefully make some fans of it even if they are kicking and screaming all the way there.
So please do not predict the failure of WoW but instead rejoice that their community and players stay there and far away from your game of choice. I am not saying this because I dislike WoW. No I like the game I just do not think I want their community on my other games.
Actually it seems a fair amount of current wow players arent getting the xpac. I know I'm not. The xpac looks decent enough. If I wasnt just plain tired of the game I would get it. But there are a few like me who have been playing since launch that are just plain tired of the game. Granted its changing alot of old content that make my eyes bleed but games just get stale after a while.
That said I'm lookin forward to GW2 but I'm also half expecting it to not deliver on half of what they are saying.
Shut up with the wow killer stuff ... its getting old.
Yes GW2 will be a great game, and I am sure it will draw alot of ppl from other mmo's. 2011 will be a good year for us that are waiting for the next MMO to play.
But kill wow .... not a chance.
You're all dumb as hell and need to stfu. EQ>AC>WoW>common UI. Go outside for 5 minutes, I think the internet is rotting your brains or you really are very not good at life and have nothing better to do but argue about the word clone for pages on the internet. GG YOU WINZ THE INTERNET. Bunch of failboat 3000s looking for any excuse to flex epeens and how quick they can wikipedia words.
Dumb thread begets dumb people though I suppose.
Not at all. That number is broken up by servers anyway. Does it really matter how many people are playing on other servers when yours is capped? Such a broken argument, but the "numbers = truth" argument is always thrown out there by insecure people. Ke$ha sold a ton of albums, does that make her good?
Either way, GW2 will either be good or it won't be. That's how it always breaks down. The dev team can spin whatever they like and people can think whatever they like, but bottom line it's all rumours and spin. Every MMO goes through the same hype/hate cycle and you'd think people would learn but alas, screaming like children in line for the next tickle me elmo is human condition anymore.
Actually.....no. It's not an "either or" situation. Some people will undoubtedly think GW2 is amazing....others....will not. Just like with WoW, EQ2, Aion, and every other game under the sun.
For someone giving other people shit about being stupid...I have to say that thinking in such black and white only terms....doesn't show a great degree of intelligence either. Whether a game is "good" is a pretty subjective judgment call when it comes to what players think.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'm going to try GW2, but so far nothing is so uber awesome about it that will make me not play wow. It's B2P, so it doesn't interfere with wow's subscription, it is fantasy and not even a differentish fantasy game at that: just a typical world were some dominating evil unites everyone. It doesn't seem to have an interesting enough story. Character Development really doesn't seem that different (yes a class based game can have different character development). Its early so all those desires (and tons more) maybe answered, but as of now...no.
-I want a Platformer MMO
Problem is WOW has such a good and much, advertisement. So everyones playing WoW.
I play it due to my IRL friends playing it.. I don't really want to, but its not fun playing an mmo, irl mates isn't playing
Silly OP is silly.
------------------------------
No game kills another game. It's not how it works. Move along, nothing to see here.
Shadus
As much as I hate wow the truth is there is nothing in development that will KILL IT.