This is on the basis that all MMORPGs' end game are just a social network system. I am reducing MMORPG end game to one word: Facebook.
That's all WoW raids are. It's just facebook in game form.
Worst analogy ever.
Yeah it's a poor analogy. If the OP's desire is for a solo progression with tough challenges and comparable rewards to raid rewards, then that I could understand.
Especially with group-based games predating Facebook by more than a decade, the analogy just doesn't make sense.
Except, that the OP really isn't against grouping, what he's looking for is puggable group content a la early DAOC that doesn't require you master the social side of MMO's to be competitive in PVP. Outside of DAOC and he also brought up Guildwars, can't think of too many other games in the genre that were like this.
I dunno, basically all of WOW's content except the last 2 raids (at any given moment) is PUGgable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Bah....perhaps OP should look into a few F2Ps like Dungeon Fighter or Vindictus. If you are good enough, it's possible to solo from start to end-game, but it requires skills obviously. Also pretty easy to find PUGs, should you need it.
I'm surprised by Vindictus being in here. I would have thought that game would be extremely group oriented. You can really solo all of the content? Haven't played it myself so I am actually curious about this and not trying to be a smartass.
Sorry to digress a bit here, guys.
Yes, the content in Vindictus is completely soloable. However, having played the beta myself, I can easily say that it is not easy in any way possible, especially against bosses (when you're the only target, it sort of makes harder to stun him so you can get in your spike damage, and you'll probably die against raid bosses. A lot.).
It's also very easy to find PUGs. The golden question is, however: is your PUG skilled at playing the game or not? It usually tends to be more of the latter than the former in F2Ps, due to the sheer amount of players involved.
Do you remember when you were in school how some people would have friends while making no real effort even to keep them because they are popular. Others have real difficulty even getting one person to be their friend or still others who work hard to keep the ones they have ?
It is possible you are that person who has to try very hard to have even one friend. What you need is tools to keep friends and making friend's lists is one such tool and sending those friends tells is another tool and making sure you are invited to groups another. You need to make an effort whether you like it or not if you want to be part of the game. The game will not change for you just like when 'you were in school and were unpopular. I am using 'you' here generally not specifically.
So irrespective of what you think you should not be required to do even after paying for that privilege unfortunately MMOs are not single player games so either adapt or quit.
Even back in the good ole days of EQ1 you needed to be in a guild and have a "list" of friends in order to compete in dungeons, raids, and finally the planes. It's an aspect of MMOs. You do have to relate to the other people and generally be in groups/guilds. GW2 seems to be diverging from this by allowing you to pick up with other people as you enter an area but theres still a chance that the end game content is going to require coordination and tatics that can only be found by people who have been proven that work well together (ie Guilds)
It's not so much that games are becoming like facebook but that facebook took the idea from games and just added to their own (so to speak, not literally of course)
There are some cases where you can PUG all the way but there will be equally and in some cases more where you'll just have to have that friends list. It's how these sorta games go.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Youll get what you want in cata. Hell i might resub for cata just for the rated bgs. Full pvp sets exclusively drom bgs? The rivers od tears from the e-sport kids is almost worth reinstalling heh.
What? I'm sorry you can hate on wow all you want, but saying you need to be in a guild to do anything is just plain stupid. Right now you can pug ICC25 (last major raid in wow) and very well I must add. I see it all the time on my main server (which is Whisperwind Alliance, meaning it's very populated). On very low populated servers I can see it as a problem, but if people won't invite you to a raid in those, it likely means you are a bad player, as extremely low pop servers tend to have close communities, and are very friendly to new players who otherwise have no reputation.
I'm sorry, but if can't handle wow, one of the least guild required MMO's out there, then maybe you shouldn't be playing MMO's.
It's one thing to be social, and totally another thing to try to overcome the enemy (PvP or PvE enemy) by making a deal between a closed group of players under which they should act their best for the common good of this specific team. The latter is not social - it has nothing to do with being social.
And, additionally to that, when we are talking about faction/realm based games, where by the game's definition you belong as well to a larger (and open) group of players, and yet you choose to favor your closed group over the game's defined one, you are actually antisocial. When you don't heal the random guy that fights on your side (i.e. same faction/realm) just because he is not part of your closed group, you are antisocial. And you are a bad player as well.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
What? I'm sorry you can hate on wow all you want, but saying you need to be in a guild to do anything is just plain stupid. Right now you can pug ICC25 (last major raid in wow) and very well I must add. I see it all the time on my main server (which is Whisperwind Alliance, meaning it's very populated). On very low populated servers I can see it as a problem, but if people won't invite you to a raid in those, it likely means you are a bad player, as extremely low pop servers tend to have close communities, and are very friendly to new players who otherwise have no reputation.
I'm sorry, but if can't handle wow, one of the least guild required MMO's out there, then maybe you shouldn't be playing MMO's.
All I'm hearing from this is that something can be pugged by facebooking people that decided to all PUG with people from other guilds.
Basically your whole point boils down to you need a group(but don't want to socialize) in order to accomplish goals. Socializing via vent/ts is a no go for you either.
I'm sorry but what is wrong with getting on vent so the raid organizer can bark out orders? You don't have to have a working mic, you just have to listen. You require zero friends.
What the hell does facebook got to do with anything? That makes no sense at all. Do you live in your parents basement in a darkened world with no outside friends to speak of? Do you hate the world or something?
My friends list in games is about 5 people long if that. Joining a guild does not mean they are friends, and I could even sum up in the hardcore guilds that your only a number to fill a role, not a person. Once "11" stops fulfilling their obligation to the guild, they are removed and replaced.
You want all the rewards it sounds, but don't want to put any social type(be it getting on a vent to listen, or joining a guild to more easily find groups) that actually require very little social aspect at all. I've been in groups and guilds where a few of the members say basically this, "I'll go" and after we are done "Later" They don't type, speak on a mic. They do one thing: their professions well to get through the encounters we face. Will I take that person over a numbskull idiot guy who can't shut the hell up? Everyday of the week.
Games aren't about friends list. Its about COMMUNICATION. Holycrap you got to express yourself. You know, like Mommy taught you to not whine and point that you want something, but to say, "Mommy I want that gijoe right" You can obviously come on these forums and expression your dislike, but hey being negative about something is easier than seeing a positive for people it seems.
I find the end game to MMORPGs to be unfun and to not make sense.
Negative statement
This is on the basis that all MMORPGs' end game are just a social network system. I am reducing MMORPG end game to one word: Facebook.
Negative statement
That's all WoW raids are. It's just facebook in game form.
Negative statement
You don't have to like facebook to like wow raiding. They're different games. The concept is still the same though. Guilds are just a friends list that you build up and whoever has the biggest friends list can acquire the best rewards of the end game the fastest.
Negative statement
Whoever doesn't get a facebook account in the massive MMORPG world becomes one shotted by the people who do. This is why I hate MMORPGs and MMOs in general and find myself going back to non-MMO games.
Negative statement
I don't see why MMOs have to be 100% about the community. Hey, I'm part of the community too. I pay a subscription like everyone else. I just don't get recognized because I don't play facebook with everybody. I think community should be supported and be given satisfactory amounts of things to do, but I don't believe in it having the best rewards.
Negative statement
The attraction to playing an MMO solo is that it's like playing in a real world. MMOs shouldn't only have to be played by making a huge friends list. MMOs should be open to however anyone wants to play. Only rewarding the biggest friends list people is NOT.
Negative statement
So at what point have you posted a non-negative comment in your post? You complaining, which by default is negative. At no point do you counter by offering a positive. You talk about life being solo. So you were an orphan thrown out then I take it? Real life is about as non-solo as you can get. Unless your a self-made millionaire(which I highly doubt you are) and are retired no receiving any help from anyone, life is not a SOLO game.
So at what point have you posted a non-negative comment in your post? You complaining, which by default is negative. At no point do you counter by offering a positive. You talk about life being solo. So you were an orphan thrown out then I take it? Real life is about as non-solo as you can get. Unless your a self-made millionaire(which I highly doubt you are) and are retired no receiving any help from anyone, life is not a SOLO game.
The overwhelming majority of discussion, by its nature, tends to be either negative or disagreement. Get over it?
The "real life" comments aren't particularly applicable either, since we're talking about a videogame whose purpose is to entertain. Part of how videogames entertain is by specifically not being real life.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Plasmicredx, I'm sorry you don't like me interfering with your MMORPG's, but I think you are in the wrong here my friend. I think I've done a great job in the MMORPG industry. I bring people together. I allow people to connect to each other in ways they have never connected before. I have brought a new level of communication to the genre and if you can't see this than you my friend are blind. You my friend are behind the times and you my friend need to get with the program or take a seat somewhere else because you're sitting in the driver's seat and obiviously you don't know how to...well...drive.
Comments
I dunno, basically all of WOW's content except the last 2 raids (at any given moment) is PUGgable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sorry to digress a bit here, guys.
Yes, the content in Vindictus is completely soloable. However, having played the beta myself, I can easily say that it is not easy in any way possible, especially against bosses (when you're the only target, it sort of makes harder to stun him so you can get in your spike damage, and you'll probably die against raid bosses. A lot.).
It's also very easy to find PUGs. The golden question is, however: is your PUG skilled at playing the game or not? It usually tends to be more of the latter than the former in F2Ps, due to the sheer amount of players involved.
TGWTETIPTNMAITC! -Gary Whitta
Do you remember when you were in school how some people would have friends while making no real effort even to keep them because they are popular. Others have real difficulty even getting one person to be their friend or still others who work hard to keep the ones they have ?
It is possible you are that person who has to try very hard to have even one friend. What you need is tools to keep friends and making friend's lists is one such tool and sending those friends tells is another tool and making sure you are invited to groups another. You need to make an effort whether you like it or not if you want to be part of the game. The game will not change for you just like when 'you were in school and were unpopular. I am using 'you' here generally not specifically.
So irrespective of what you think you should not be required to do even after paying for that privilege unfortunately MMOs are not single player games so either adapt or quit.
Seriously, do not tell this guy to play EVE, it's the most guild (they are called corporations in EVE) centric game there is.
SteamID: Sertii
Help spread PC gaming dominance, sign up on Steam!
Even back in the good ole days of EQ1 you needed to be in a guild and have a "list" of friends in order to compete in dungeons, raids, and finally the planes. It's an aspect of MMOs. You do have to relate to the other people and generally be in groups/guilds. GW2 seems to be diverging from this by allowing you to pick up with other people as you enter an area but theres still a chance that the end game content is going to require coordination and tatics that can only be found by people who have been proven that work well together (ie Guilds)
It's not so much that games are becoming like facebook but that facebook took the idea from games and just added to their own (so to speak, not literally of course)
There are some cases where you can PUG all the way but there will be equally and in some cases more where you'll just have to have that friends list. It's how these sorta games go.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Youll get what you want in cata. Hell i might resub for cata just for the rated bgs. Full pvp sets exclusively drom bgs? The rivers od tears from the e-sport kids is almost worth reinstalling heh.
What? I'm sorry you can hate on wow all you want, but saying you need to be in a guild to do anything is just plain stupid. Right now you can pug ICC25 (last major raid in wow) and very well I must add. I see it all the time on my main server (which is Whisperwind Alliance, meaning it's very populated). On very low populated servers I can see it as a problem, but if people won't invite you to a raid in those, it likely means you are a bad player, as extremely low pop servers tend to have close communities, and are very friendly to new players who otherwise have no reputation.
I'm sorry, but if can't handle wow, one of the least guild required MMO's out there, then maybe you shouldn't be playing MMO's.
-I want a Platformer MMO
It's one thing to be social, and totally another thing to try to overcome the enemy (PvP or PvE enemy) by making a deal between a closed group of players under which they should act their best for the common good of this specific team. The latter is not social - it has nothing to do with being social.
And, additionally to that, when we are talking about faction/realm based games, where by the game's definition you belong as well to a larger (and open) group of players, and yet you choose to favor your closed group over the game's defined one, you are actually antisocial. When you don't heal the random guy that fights on your side (i.e. same faction/realm) just because he is not part of your closed group, you are antisocial. And you are a bad player as well.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
All I'm hearing from this is that something can be pugged by facebooking people that decided to all PUG with people from other guilds.
Basically your whole point boils down to you need a group(but don't want to socialize) in order to accomplish goals. Socializing via vent/ts is a no go for you either.
I'm sorry but what is wrong with getting on vent so the raid organizer can bark out orders? You don't have to have a working mic, you just have to listen. You require zero friends.
What the hell does facebook got to do with anything? That makes no sense at all. Do you live in your parents basement in a darkened world with no outside friends to speak of? Do you hate the world or something?
My friends list in games is about 5 people long if that. Joining a guild does not mean they are friends, and I could even sum up in the hardcore guilds that your only a number to fill a role, not a person. Once "11" stops fulfilling their obligation to the guild, they are removed and replaced.
You want all the rewards it sounds, but don't want to put any social type(be it getting on a vent to listen, or joining a guild to more easily find groups) that actually require very little social aspect at all. I've been in groups and guilds where a few of the members say basically this, "I'll go" and after we are done "Later" They don't type, speak on a mic. They do one thing: their professions well to get through the encounters we face. Will I take that person over a numbskull idiot guy who can't shut the hell up? Everyday of the week.
Games aren't about friends list. Its about COMMUNICATION. Holycrap you got to express yourself. You know, like Mommy taught you to not whine and point that you want something, but to say, "Mommy I want that gijoe right" You can obviously come on these forums and expression your dislike, but hey being negative about something is easier than seeing a positive for people it seems.
Removed.
So at what point have you posted a non-negative comment in your post? You complaining, which by default is negative. At no point do you counter by offering a positive. You talk about life being solo. So you were an orphan thrown out then I take it? Real life is about as non-solo as you can get. Unless your a self-made millionaire(which I highly doubt you are) and are retired no receiving any help from anyone, life is not a SOLO game.
The overwhelming majority of discussion, by its nature, tends to be either negative or disagreement. Get over it?
The "real life" comments aren't particularly applicable either, since we're talking about a videogame whose purpose is to entertain. Part of how videogames entertain is by specifically not being real life.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Plasmicredx, I'm sorry you don't like me interfering with your MMORPG's, but I think you are in the wrong here my friend. I think I've done a great job in the MMORPG industry. I bring people together. I allow people to connect to each other in ways they have never connected before. I have brought a new level of communication to the genre and if you can't see this than you my friend are blind. You my friend are behind the times and you my friend need to get with the program or take a seat somewhere else because you're sitting in the driver's seat and obiviously you don't know how to...well...drive.
Facebook
AKA "thefacebook"...BITCH!!!!