Look, if you're going to go f2p, don't rob people, and don't ignore your vets. Have a brain in your skull and don't say stupid idiotic bull like "Just trust us, we won't screw you over" like a slimy car salesman trying to sell me a lemon disguised as a ferrari.
And if it's someone named Smedley saying it... run the other way. Fast.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sure, the game was dying. But SOE just put a bullet in the heart of the real EQ2 servers, and for what end? Why cancel our free trials? Why prevent transfers? In either direction? Why "hide" our existence on the extended servers?
Put down the kool aid for a minute and answer these questions, if you would. I have no problem with SOE offering the "free" servers - but why drive a stake through the real ones?
Honestly? I think they plan to get rid of the live servers eventually. Why didn't they just turn the live servers into ftp? probably because it resulted in less risk in case the ftp idea failed.
I absolutely agree. So, essentially, those of us who have supported this game for years are expendable. We can either give up all we have earned over the years and head on over to the new free servers, or wait out the inevitable demise of our servers.
They did it to all those original SWG players. No reason to think they wouldn't do it again to EQ2 players. SOE does *not* care about their players beyond how much money they can squeeze out of them. All players are to SOE are $$$. Period. And if they think they can get $$$$$$ by sacrificing $$$... they will do so in a heartbeat.They've already done it before, and they'd do it again if they thought it meant more $$$ for them.
I view anything SOE - especially John Smedley - says anymore with 100% skepticism.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I was really bored beginning of this week, frustraited on what to play. Ive been pottering about on EQ2X on and off as a bronze member for a bit but like most say if you want to play more than casual you need to upgrade. Ive recently got a spanking new rig and been staring at my Vanguard DVD box thinking "hmm shall i install" because id like to see Telon working on high end graphics. I came to decide that if i just open a new SOE account i can play Isle of Dawn but then thought well thats not really gonna test my rig , i want to test it in New TG! so decided to sub Station Access (which ive said id never sub again). So obviously with station access ive got my access back to Vanguard, SWG (which i am deffo not logging into) Gold in EQ2X then i noticed i had a sub for EQ2 Live. Now the strange thing is i dont recall ever buying a copy of EQ2 because ive never played it before EQ2X, only thing i can put it down to is buying after a few too many beers . So first thing i did was go on EQ2 Live, the fact i had all the races didnt interest me as i pretty much always play humans. I chose my server and logged in, after wandering about a bit the first thing that struck me was the lack of other peeps about, i kept on doing a few more quests and then i just thought hmm this is lonley and boring and im not going to find many peeps until im like what lvl 60+, so tbh i logged out and went back on EQ2X. We can say well EQ2 Live is never going to get populated in lowbie areas aslong as peeps stay on EQ2X so it doesnt help the live servers.But how many other old games have a good stream of new players buying their game? not many. So for me personally ill keep my Station Access open until GW2 and SWTOR come along but i think ill stay on the EQ2X mainly because of the population
When i think of a game going free to play and the benefits the first thing that comes to mind is an increase in player population.
With this model the Extended players are on their own servers, how is the f2p model benefiting the normal subscribers?
Wouldnt it be better to fill the normal servers so the game feels alive and in turn make more people subscibe.
I know for a fact that a big reason why people leave a game is due to dead feeling servers.
I honestly feel SoE should rethink this seperate server model they have because you lose a big benefit when you do this.
I feel that the EQ2X model is about getting a full blown cash shop into the EQ2 games more than it is making EQ2 have some ala carte optional payment model.
Most of the things you point out suggest that is the real case. EQ2X is just a glorified trial of the game and it certainly isn't designed to draw in new players to the servers that desperatly need more players.
I suspect the real hope for soe is that they can somehow get this cash shop on every eq2 server. That might just be the reason why they are dragging their feet on merging servers. It would not be surprising to see some sort of consolidation of the old servers in combination with the opening of new EQ2X servers and giving players some sort of incentive to make the transition.
Soe most certainly wants this style of cash shop on all their servers, because they think it will make them the most money. I'm not certain how they are going to try to do it, but I am certain that they are working towards that goal.
I have to agree Daffid011, it's all smoke and mirrors to get where they really want to be, It has to be. No company could be this oblivious to what would work and what wouldn’t. Very few people like their model, a few fanbois defend it, the biggest evidence is that they go live and the free server is devoid of players???
LOTRO just announced "Lord of the Rings Online doubles revenue in one month – by going free" REALLY, like no one saw this coming, of course it was coming they by comparison have very good package in place and earning point whi9le you play is a very big incentive to play.
EQ2X tried to force subs in a free to play game??? This is the F2P model they come up with, no one is this naive. They are starving live server until players can’t take it no more, then will go cash shop at the minimum, and possible F2P on all servers.
Then people whom have been with SOE for so long complain and you get Joe new mmo every week or the fanbois call people SOE haters. lol
I think many people bring up LOTRO so much and the EQ2 die hards hate it, HELLO: dudes they are only mentioning a model which works over and over to try and get the message to SOE, look at today’s new DOUBLE Rev for LOTRO, and players can’t understand why SOE would not go this route, one simply cannot wrap their head around this, but I think Daffid011 s probably correct, anything else just doesn’t add up, I’ll say it again No Company could be this naive, just no way.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
I have to agree Daffid011, it's all smoke and mirrors to get where they really want to be, It has to be. No company could be this oblivious to what would work and what wouldn’t. Very few people like their model, a few fanbois defend it, the biggest evidence is that they go live and the free server is devoid of players???
Devoid of players? Are you serious? You've obviously never been on the EQIIX server. 9-12 instances of Frostfang Sea does NOT equal "devoid of players" and you really should know what you are talking about before making ignorant comments.
LOTRO just announced "Lord of the Rings Online doubles revenue in one month – by going free" REALLY, like no one saw this coming, of course it was coming they by comparison have very good package in place and earning point whi9le you play is a very big incentive to play.
Read - grinding out deeds ad nauseum
And if LotRO *just* announced this, I fail to see how this RECENT announcement is what birthed EQIIX. EQIIX, believe it or not, has been going now, including beta, for at least 2 months. It'd been on the SOE dev table being considered and talked about since BEFORE E3 and that was in June. Again, ignorant comments with no facts to back it up.
Here's your facts, LotRO F2P model didn't go live until last month so their "recent announcement" has no bearing on EQIIX, it's release, nor its reasoning for coming about since EQIIX was already being devised by the devs since BEFORE June.
EQ2X tried to force subs in a free to play game???
Force? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. EQIIX Bronze is a very viable playing model. Just because it might not be for you whom might want more out of the game than casual play doesn't mean it's not playable nor that it's forcing you to do something you don't want to do.
And LotRO doesn't have a subscription based membership plan I suppose? You even reading the same membership matrix everyone else is? Who's being naive now?
Then people whom have been with SOE for so long complain and you get Joe new mmo every week or the fanbois call people SOE haters. lol
I think many people bring up LOTRO so much and the EQ2 die hards hate it, HELLO: dudes they are only mentioning a model which works over and over to try and get the message to SOE, look at today’s new DOUBLE Rev for LOTRO, and players can’t understand why SOE would not go this route, one simply cannot wrap their head around this, but I think Daffid011 s probably correct, anything else just doesn’t add up, I’ll say it again No Company could be this naive, just no way.
What I hate is people who misrespresent the FACTS to defend their stance that EQIIX F2P is a bad model. It's not, as I pointed out with logical facts above. You can ignore them all you like and continue to spew your ignorant POV, but to sit here and scream that LotRO has a better model or that people like me, defending EQIIX, are fanbois for doing so is what I call jaded and uninformed. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
I quit playing EQII for nearly a year, it took EQIIX to bring me back and renew my desire to play. It was the wonderful population of the Freeport server that excited me enough to resub (my CHOICE, I was not "forced"). Playing EQII with an actual population is a total spin! The Live servers really had no population and new blood was few and far between. I do, in a way, wish that they would have put the F2P model onto the Live servers but then I doubt the Live servers would have had nearly the feeling of life that the one F2P server has since people would be so spread out and I wouldn't of met the great people I have in my guild now.
Seriously, before you so heavily, and ignorantly, bash a game, walk a mile in it. You might educate yourself and be able to come here and really make a point instead of making no point at all other than you have no idea what you're talking about.
When i think of a game going free to play and the benefits the first thing that comes to mind is an increase in player population.
With this model the Extended players are on their own servers, how is the f2p model benefiting the normal subscribers?
Wouldnt it be better to fill the normal servers so the game feels alive and in turn make more people subscibe.
I know for a fact that a big reason why people leave a game is due to dead feeling servers.
I honestly feel SoE should rethink this seperate server model they have because you lose a big benefit when you do this.
I feel that the EQ2X model is about getting a full blown cash shop into the EQ2 games more than it is making EQ2 have some ala carte optional payment model.
Most of the things you point out suggest that is the real case. EQ2X is just a glorified trial of the game and it certainly isn't designed to draw in new players to the servers that desperatly need more players.
I suspect the real hope for soe is that they can somehow get this cash shop on every eq2 server. That might just be the reason why they are dragging their feet on merging servers. It would not be surprising to see some sort of consolidation of the old servers in combination with the opening of new EQ2X servers and giving players some sort of incentive to make the transition.
Soe most certainly wants this style of cash shop on all their servers, because they think it will make them the most money. I'm not certain how they are going to try to do it, but I am certain that they are working towards that goal.
In comment to the first post quoted above, I think SoE felt that opening up a separate cash shop server was better than putting the cash shop on all servers and having all of the vets bitch about it. They are in between a rock and a hard place on this one. I don't think either decision wouldn't have made vets leave, maybe the decision to open up a separate server was the one they felt was the less risky to player retention? I have read a lot of comments about when the milder version of the cash shop was opened up and I don't think most of the older EQ2 players would support any cash shop changes at all that would have been necessary to making a F2A extended trial. You might ask, why open up a cash shop at all in the first place? That's a very good question, but I suppose the answer would be that SoE felt they weren't making enough on traditional subscriptions, probably as the result of the playerbase decreasing overall.
In comment to the second, you're just resaying what I said before. It's clearly advertized as an extended trial. As I also said before, it seems to me that it's very possible that SoE will consolidate the Live servers and perhaps eventually open up new Extended servers, not so much with the intent to rip people off with a cash shop as to open up fresh servers that draw people to playing their game. In my eyes, it's the fresh server that has drawn a lot of people back, as opposed to the cash shop/F2A.
I have no idea if SoE plans to open up a cash shop on all of the servers. Why wouldn't they have opened up one on all servers by now if that was the case?
What I hate is people who misrespresent the FACTS to defend their stance that EQIIX F2P is a bad model. It's not, as I pointed out with logical facts above. You can ignore them all you like and continue to spew your ignorant POV, but to sit here and scream that LotRO has a better model or that people like me, defending EQIIX, are fanbois for doing so is what I call jaded and uninformed. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
I quit playing EQII for nearly a year, it took EQIIX to bring me back and renew my desire to play. It was the wonderful population of the Freeport server that excited me enough to resub (my CHOICE, I was not "forced"). Playing EQII with an actual population is a total spin! The Live servers really had no population and new blood was few and far between. I do, in a way, wish that they would have put the F2P model onto the Live servers but then I doubt the Live servers would have had nearly the feeling of life that the one F2P server has since people would be so spread out and I wouldn't of met the great people I have in my guild now.
Seriously, before you so heavily, and ignorantly, bash a game, walk a mile in it. You might educate yourself and be able to come here and really make a point instead of making no point at all other than you have no idea what you're talking about.
It is not a "fact" that soes model is better. That is your opinion which is fine. It is a fact that in polls and opinion threads that more people find turbines model to be better. It is a fact that EQ2X only has 1 server, despite being open for longer than LOTRO. It is a fact that Turbine doubled their revenue and attracted a million new players (paying or staying is debatable).
Things that are heavily restricted in eq2x: classes, races, trade, chat, itemization/rewards, crafting, etc. Great that players can go anywhere and get all the quests, but it seems obvious that people find access to classes & races of their chosing to be more important. Being able to actually use all the rewards for quests or crafting to be very important. The ability to talk to the community and listen to the community in general channels was important. The lack of ability to buy and trade items between players being replaced with direct cash shop purchases for items. Lastly it seems that most people find that the only way to remove most of the games restrictions is a full subscription (plus maybe some additional fees).
In the end most people either don't find the EQ2X approach very good, the game very good or a combination of both.
As for your last paragraph, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they have not tried EQ2X.
Originally posted by MurlockDanceIn comment to the second, you're just resaying what I said before. It's clearly advertized as an extended trial. As I also said before, it seems to me that it's very possible that SoE will consolidate the Live servers and perhaps eventually open up new Extended servers, not so much with the intent to rip people off with a cash shop as to open up fresh servers that draw people to playing their game. In my eyes, it's the fresh server that has drawn a lot of people back, as opposed to the cash shop/F2A.
I have no idea if SoE plans to open up a cash shop on all of the servers. Why wouldn't they have opened up one on all servers by now if that was the case?
I wouldn't say it is clearly advertised as a simple extended trial. It seems more like soe is playing both sides of the street on it being a trial and a free to play game that somehow presents players with multiple payment choices found in most free to play games. It is a bit fast and loose, but not a huge issue.
If you look at the history of eq2 you will see that soe has clearly tried to put cash shops on the live servers several times. Station exchange was the first attempt and players fought against it hard. Legends of norrath was the second attempt. Station cash was the third attempt. The problem is that none of those are direct or huge enough for soe and I think each initiative has only cost them more players than it has found success. That is why they are "experimenting" with eq2x on a new server and putting pressure on the live servers. It really feels like a power move to pressure the legacy servers into submitting to the cash shops. Removing the free trials to the legacy servers and dragging their feet on the much needed and long overdue mergers is a pressure tactic.
It is obvious that soe wants to sell anything and everything through real money transactions, but so far they just have not found a way to do so without harming their own playerbase. If anything, that is why they are screwing around with a half hearted free to play effort and keeping the legacy servers on the back burner as a fall back plan.
Either way, it will be most intersting to see what the next move by soe is going to be. I suspect it will shock some long time players and just be another "I told you so" to others.
If you think about the model SOE seems to be sticking with instead of something which turbine has proven works (twice - ddo and lotro). SOE's model is so heavily structured around SUBS i feel is a prelude to what they are going to bring to all live servers, as it would be the least obtrusive model for the live players, it's nowhere near a F2P model. This is the "Experiment" they continually refer the EQ2X server as.
I've stopped playing live and EQ2X, i checked out EQ2X in alpha, canceled my accounts which i have had running non stop for 6 years and switched over to EQ2X the day beta opened and have pretty much stopped playing as EQ2X server is dead, devoid of players, sure the starter zones have a few instances but once you start to move into the later game it's a ghost town proving no one is sticking around. Snowdonia come here and preach when you get into your 70's and have a better idea about the whole game and not just the starter/newbie zone.
My reason for not sticking around is i feel F2P is coming to all servers, and now I'm in two places, investing in Freeport Server, and 6 year investment on a live server and the evidence is there, one only has to read what Daffid011 writes and is easily backed up by reading forums. SOE is starving the live servers until they scream for F2P which comes equipped with full cash shop (how convenient), and at that point i can return to my 6 year investment.
I don't feel spending any time on either live or EQ2X is worth it, you spend all this time on X and a couple months later they go F2P on live servers, what a waste as I'll go straight back to where i have been for 6 years, and i refuse to pay for any live until there is a solid plan in place, and we all know what that is, full cash shop and F2P on all servers, just waiting for it to come into fruition. Not sure about anyone else but Investing into a future on a server they continually refer to as an experiment doesn't instill me with any confidence.
One good thing is i rediscovered how awesome LOTRO is and what an amazing confident company Turbine is and how refreshing it is to have a company which treats their customers with respect.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
If you think about the model SOE seems to be sticking with instead of something which turbine has proven works (twice - ddo and lotro). SOE's model is so heavily structured around SUBS i feel is a prelude to what they are going to bring to all live servers, as it would be the least obtrusive model for the live players, it's nowhere near a F2P model. This is the "Experiment" they continually refer the EQ2X server as.
I've stopped playing live and EQ2X, i checked out EQ2X in alpha, canceled my accounts which i have had running non stop for 6 years and switched over to EQ2X the day beta opened and have pretty much stopped playing as EQ2X server is dead, devoid of players, sure the starter zones have a few instances but once you start to move into the later game it's a ghost town proving no one is sticking around. Snowdonia come here and preach when you get into your 70's and have a better idea about the whole game and not just the starter/newbie zone.
My reason for not sticking around is i feel F2P is coming to all servers, and now I'm in two places, investing in Freeport Server, and 6 year investment on a live server and the evidence is there, one only has to read what Daffid011 writes and is easily backed up by reading forums. SOE is starving the live servers until they scream for F2P which comes equipped with full cash shop (how convenient), and at that point i can return to my 6 year investment.
I don't feel spending any time on either live or EQ2X is worth it, you spend all this time on X and a couple months later they go F2P on live servers, what a waste as I'll go straight back to where i have been for 6 years, and i refuse to pay for any live until there is a solid plan in place, and we all know what that is, full cash shop and F2P on all servers, just waiting for it to come into fruition. Not sure about anyone else but Investing into a future on a server they continually refer to as an experiment doesn't instill me with any confidence.
One good thing is i rediscovered how awesome LOTRO is and what an amazing confident company Turbine is and how refreshing it is to have a company which treats their customers with respect.
In quick response to Daffid's post above, how is it I figured out at day 1 that it was a trial? It says Extended in the title, and Free Adventures. Neither are misleading and give a clear indication what it's about. In SoE's FAQ, it's absolutely clear this is considered an extended trial... the thing that sucks about SoE's model is that you can't play exclusively a la carte without restrictions that can never be lifted, not even through paying money.
Now to poster above, so far, I've seen lots of players in the level 1-60 zones. I'm not quite sure how you're seeing no one unless you copied a higher level toon directly from Live at a time when most of the playerbase was level 10 or something. Most players are playing from level 1. Some of the less popular areas are a bit de-populated, sure, like Feerott. Every time I've been there, there's been only one instance with about 16 people in it. That's still infinitely better than what I came across in every area I played on the Live servers other than the newbie areas, even a year and a half ago! Most of the characters I've encountered are low level, but there is a very good population of people now in their mid-40s and mid-50s. The server has been going for, what, about two months? Give it some time for people to get to level 70 and you'll probably see quite a few players running around in those zones.
It might be an experiment, but I doubt highly that they would end this experiment just like that without giving people the possiblity of transferring their Extended characters over to the Live servers. I'd transfer my main character, no problems, to Crushbone or where ever as long as I know that there would be other players to group up with. Again, they could put cash shops right now on every server if they wanted to. Why haven't they done this?
In quick response to Daffid's post above, how is it I figured out at day 1 that it was a trial? It says Extended in the title, and Free Adventures. Neither are misleading and give a clear indication what it's about. In SoE's FAQ, it's absolutely clear this is considered an extended trial... the thing that sucks about SoE's model is that you can't play exclusively a la carte without restrictions that can never be lifted, not even through paying money.
This is how the EQ2X faq defines what EQ2X is
1. What is EverQuest II Extended?
Extended provides access to premium subscription-quality content through free and optional paid membership levels. Powered by an all-new web-based download application, new and veteran players alike can experience all the excitement and depth of EQII's content without a daunting installation or a massive download. Players can register within minutes, download the client to join other people in an epic journey, and launch into adventure in a fantastical online 3D world. Extended is the ultimate MMORPG experience. Excitement with every breath and adventure around every turn is now available for free!
Between us and some other forum goers I'm sure we have heard soe reference EQ2X as an extended trial. Yes the name of the game says extended, but that doesn't in any way imply trial does it? The definition from soe says payment levels and suggests an different payment options. It is constantly referred to as free to play in the same manner as other free to play games, but the only option really available is a subscription fee. Soe spends more time calling the game free to play than it does calling it an extended trial. I don't even think they use the word trial anywhere in the FAQ, so I'm not sure I would say
It isn't hard to understand why some people feel mislead or that it really isn't a free to play game. Anyone who has followed the interviews and development of the system I can see them understanding the real system, but I don't think that goes for everyone.
My issue with Extended is that it's extremely expensive if you want to just clear the shop and play eq2 as if it's a b2p game. With lotro I sunk around 100 into the shop but I could have spent 50 and unlocked all content and classes. It's impossible to do that with extended with the same amount of cash.
If I wasn't already subscribed to EQ2 it would certainly put me off the game seeing they sell things like harvested rares, mastercrafted armor, self-rez and healing potions on the extended server marketplace as well as other game-changing things while still asking for a sub in exchange for basic features. Hell, why not just go ahead and sell plat too while you're at it SOE? Gladly they've kept the vast majority of that stuff off the traditional sub servers, but for how long I wonder... guess it depends on how profitable this F2P experiment is for them.
That is just plain scary. Sub + cash shop.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I just can't believe how many people are willing to bend over for it. Wisdom seems to elude MMO players.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I just can't believe how many people are willing to bend over for it. Wisdom seems to elude MMO players.
Won't be me. I swore off SOE after hearing about SWG and CU.
I just can't consider them trustworthy.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
they had (they, meaning SOE) such a great model of f2p+sub done right in the LOTRO/DDO model and they choose to ignore it.
they are a greedy corporation but hey, arent they all by definition out to get money.
Personally i have a vendetta against them for the way they handled swg and vanguard and i would think thrice before EVER subbing to a SOE game again. (i'm sure i will be tempted to for eqnext)
Do you mean an example because SOE didn't make either DDO or LOTRO even though you are right for the consumer Turbines free to play model is a much better deal.
I still give SOE credit for doing this because this is something I think is important to mmorpgs especially if they expect to make there money through longevity, if you have the content then it
s a good model.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Gold sub is not the same as subscribing to live. It is the same price, but you still do not get lvl 90, still have to pay for a guild w/station cash, and other silly things I can't remember atm. Live is way better, please don't subscribe to Extended w/the intentions of paying for Gold or higher, you're wasting your moneys!
Quote: "Cash shops fund terrorism, and buying mounts instead of earning them causes teenage pregnancies."
If *I* would have written such a sentence, it would cause me another warning or temporary ban! Not that I mind some fun exxageration, not at all! But the ban-hammer is been swung quite a lot these days. Last time I got a warning for explaining the difference of "ad hominem" arguments! Sheesh. But you MMORPG.com staff can write such sentences.
Maybe you really think this over, ja ne?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I find EQ2s f2p model strange.
When i think of a game going free to play and the benefits the first thing that comes to mind is an increase in player population.
With this model the Extended players are on their own servers, how is the f2p model benefiting the normal subscribers?
Wouldnt it be better to fill the normal servers so the game feels alive and in turn make more people subscibe.
I know for a fact that a big reason why people leave a game is due to dead feeling servers.
I honestly feel SoE should rethink this seperate server model they have because you lose a big benefit when you do this.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I was really bored beginning of this week, frustraited on what to play. Ive been pottering about on EQ2X on and off as a bronze member for a bit but like most say if you want to play more than casual you need to upgrade. Ive recently got a spanking new rig and been staring at my Vanguard DVD box thinking "hmm shall i install" because id like to see Telon working on high end graphics.
.
I came to decide that if i just open a new SOE account i can play Isle of Dawn but then thought well thats not really gonna test my rig , i want to test it in New TG! so decided to sub Station Access (which ive said id never sub again). So obviously with station access ive got my access back to Vanguard, SWG (which i am deffo not logging into) Gold in EQ2X then i noticed i had a sub for EQ2 Live. Now the strange thing is i dont recall ever buying a copy of EQ2 because ive never played it before EQ2X, only thing i can put it down to is buying after a few too many beers
So first thing i did was go on EQ2 Live, the fact i had all the races didnt interest me as i pretty much always play humans. I chose my server and logged in, after wandering about a bit the first thing that struck me was the lack of other peeps about, i kept on doing a few more quests and then i just thought hmm this is lonley and boring and im not going to find many peeps until im like what lvl 60+, so tbh i logged out and went back on EQ2X.
We can say well EQ2 Live is never going to get populated in lowbie areas aslong as peeps stay on EQ2X so it doesnt help the live servers.But how many other old games have a good stream of new players buying their game? not many.
So for me personally ill keep my Station Access open until GW2 and SWTOR come along but i think ill stay on the EQ2X mainly because of the population
I feel that the EQ2X model is about getting a full blown cash shop into the EQ2 games more than it is making EQ2 have some ala carte optional payment model.
Most of the things you point out suggest that is the real case. EQ2X is just a glorified trial of the game and it certainly isn't designed to draw in new players to the servers that desperatly need more players.
I suspect the real hope for soe is that they can somehow get this cash shop on every eq2 server. That might just be the reason why they are dragging their feet on merging servers. It would not be surprising to see some sort of consolidation of the old servers in combination with the opening of new EQ2X servers and giving players some sort of incentive to make the transition.
Soe most certainly wants this style of cash shop on all their servers, because they think it will make them the most money. I'm not certain how they are going to try to do it, but I am certain that they are working towards that goal.
I have to agree Daffid011, it's all smoke and mirrors to get where they really want to be, It has to be. No company could be this oblivious to what would work and what wouldn’t. Very few people like their model, a few fanbois defend it, the biggest evidence is that they go live and the free server is devoid of players???
LOTRO just announced "Lord of the Rings Online doubles revenue in one month – by going free" REALLY, like no one saw this coming, of course it was coming they by comparison have very good package in place and earning point whi9le you play is a very big incentive to play.
EQ2X tried to force subs in a free to play game??? This is the F2P model they come up with, no one is this naive. They are starving live server until players can’t take it no more, then will go cash shop at the minimum, and possible F2P on all servers.
Then people whom have been with SOE for so long complain and you get Joe new mmo every week or the fanbois call people SOE haters. lol
I think many people bring up LOTRO so much and the EQ2 die hards hate it, HELLO: dudes they are only mentioning a model which works over and over to try and get the message to SOE, look at today’s new DOUBLE Rev for LOTRO, and players can’t understand why SOE would not go this route, one simply cannot wrap their head around this, but I think Daffid011 s probably correct, anything else just doesn’t add up, I’ll say it again No Company could be this naive, just no way.
What I hate is people who misrespresent the FACTS to defend their stance that EQIIX F2P is a bad model. It's not, as I pointed out with logical facts above. You can ignore them all you like and continue to spew your ignorant POV, but to sit here and scream that LotRO has a better model or that people like me, defending EQIIX, are fanbois for doing so is what I call jaded and uninformed. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
I quit playing EQII for nearly a year, it took EQIIX to bring me back and renew my desire to play. It was the wonderful population of the Freeport server that excited me enough to resub (my CHOICE, I was not "forced"). Playing EQII with an actual population is a total spin! The Live servers really had no population and new blood was few and far between. I do, in a way, wish that they would have put the F2P model onto the Live servers but then I doubt the Live servers would have had nearly the feeling of life that the one F2P server has since people would be so spread out and I wouldn't of met the great people I have in my guild now.
Seriously, before you so heavily, and ignorantly, bash a game, walk a mile in it. You might educate yourself and be able to come here and really make a point instead of making no point at all other than you have no idea what you're talking about.
In comment to the first post quoted above, I think SoE felt that opening up a separate cash shop server was better than putting the cash shop on all servers and having all of the vets bitch about it. They are in between a rock and a hard place on this one. I don't think either decision wouldn't have made vets leave, maybe the decision to open up a separate server was the one they felt was the less risky to player retention? I have read a lot of comments about when the milder version of the cash shop was opened up and I don't think most of the older EQ2 players would support any cash shop changes at all that would have been necessary to making a F2A extended trial. You might ask, why open up a cash shop at all in the first place? That's a very good question, but I suppose the answer would be that SoE felt they weren't making enough on traditional subscriptions, probably as the result of the playerbase decreasing overall.
In comment to the second, you're just resaying what I said before. It's clearly advertized as an extended trial. As I also said before, it seems to me that it's very possible that SoE will consolidate the Live servers and perhaps eventually open up new Extended servers, not so much with the intent to rip people off with a cash shop as to open up fresh servers that draw people to playing their game. In my eyes, it's the fresh server that has drawn a lot of people back, as opposed to the cash shop/F2A.
I have no idea if SoE plans to open up a cash shop on all of the servers. Why wouldn't they have opened up one on all servers by now if that was the case?
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
It is not a "fact" that soes model is better. That is your opinion which is fine. It is a fact that in polls and opinion threads that more people find turbines model to be better. It is a fact that EQ2X only has 1 server, despite being open for longer than LOTRO. It is a fact that Turbine doubled their revenue and attracted a million new players (paying or staying is debatable).
Things that are heavily restricted in eq2x: classes, races, trade, chat, itemization/rewards, crafting, etc. Great that players can go anywhere and get all the quests, but it seems obvious that people find access to classes & races of their chosing to be more important. Being able to actually use all the rewards for quests or crafting to be very important. The ability to talk to the community and listen to the community in general channels was important. The lack of ability to buy and trade items between players being replaced with direct cash shop purchases for items. Lastly it seems that most people find that the only way to remove most of the games restrictions is a full subscription (plus maybe some additional fees).
In the end most people either don't find the EQ2X approach very good, the game very good or a combination of both.
As for your last paragraph, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they have not tried EQ2X.
I wouldn't say it is clearly advertised as a simple extended trial. It seems more like soe is playing both sides of the street on it being a trial and a free to play game that somehow presents players with multiple payment choices found in most free to play games. It is a bit fast and loose, but not a huge issue.
If you look at the history of eq2 you will see that soe has clearly tried to put cash shops on the live servers several times. Station exchange was the first attempt and players fought against it hard. Legends of norrath was the second attempt. Station cash was the third attempt. The problem is that none of those are direct or huge enough for soe and I think each initiative has only cost them more players than it has found success. That is why they are "experimenting" with eq2x on a new server and putting pressure on the live servers. It really feels like a power move to pressure the legacy servers into submitting to the cash shops. Removing the free trials to the legacy servers and dragging their feet on the much needed and long overdue mergers is a pressure tactic.
It is obvious that soe wants to sell anything and everything through real money transactions, but so far they just have not found a way to do so without harming their own playerbase. If anything, that is why they are screwing around with a half hearted free to play effort and keeping the legacy servers on the back burner as a fall back plan.
Either way, it will be most intersting to see what the next move by soe is going to be. I suspect it will shock some long time players and just be another "I told you so" to others.
If you think about the model SOE seems to be sticking with instead of something which turbine has proven works (twice - ddo and lotro). SOE's model is so heavily structured around SUBS i feel is a prelude to what they are going to bring to all live servers, as it would be the least obtrusive model for the live players, it's nowhere near a F2P model. This is the "Experiment" they continually refer the EQ2X server as.
I've stopped playing live and EQ2X, i checked out EQ2X in alpha, canceled my accounts which i have had running non stop for 6 years and switched over to EQ2X the day beta opened and have pretty much stopped playing as EQ2X server is dead, devoid of players, sure the starter zones have a few instances but once you start to move into the later game it's a ghost town proving no one is sticking around. Snowdonia come here and preach when you get into your 70's and have a better idea about the whole game and not just the starter/newbie zone.
My reason for not sticking around is i feel F2P is coming to all servers, and now I'm in two places, investing in Freeport Server, and 6 year investment on a live server and the evidence is there, one only has to read what Daffid011 writes and is easily backed up by reading forums. SOE is starving the live servers until they scream for F2P which comes equipped with full cash shop (how convenient), and at that point i can return to my 6 year investment.
I don't feel spending any time on either live or EQ2X is worth it, you spend all this time on X and a couple months later they go F2P on live servers, what a waste as I'll go straight back to where i have been for 6 years, and i refuse to pay for any live until there is a solid plan in place, and we all know what that is, full cash shop and F2P on all servers, just waiting for it to come into fruition. Not sure about anyone else but Investing into a future on a server they continually refer to as an experiment doesn't instill me with any confidence.
One good thing is i rediscovered how awesome LOTRO is and what an amazing confident company Turbine is and how refreshing it is to have a company which treats their customers with respect.
In quick response to Daffid's post above, how is it I figured out at day 1 that it was a trial? It says Extended in the title, and Free Adventures. Neither are misleading and give a clear indication what it's about. In SoE's FAQ, it's absolutely clear this is considered an extended trial... the thing that sucks about SoE's model is that you can't play exclusively a la carte without restrictions that can never be lifted, not even through paying money.
Now to poster above, so far, I've seen lots of players in the level 1-60 zones. I'm not quite sure how you're seeing no one unless you copied a higher level toon directly from Live at a time when most of the playerbase was level 10 or something. Most players are playing from level 1. Some of the less popular areas are a bit de-populated, sure, like Feerott. Every time I've been there, there's been only one instance with about 16 people in it. That's still infinitely better than what I came across in every area I played on the Live servers other than the newbie areas, even a year and a half ago! Most of the characters I've encountered are low level, but there is a very good population of people now in their mid-40s and mid-50s. The server has been going for, what, about two months? Give it some time for people to get to level 70 and you'll probably see quite a few players running around in those zones.
It might be an experiment, but I doubt highly that they would end this experiment just like that without giving people the possiblity of transferring their Extended characters over to the Live servers. I'd transfer my main character, no problems, to Crushbone or where ever as long as I know that there would be other players to group up with. Again, they could put cash shops right now on every server if they wanted to. Why haven't they done this?
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
This is how the EQ2X faq defines what EQ2X is
1. What is EverQuest II Extended?
Extended provides access to premium subscription-quality content through free and optional paid membership levels. Powered by an all-new web-based download application, new and veteran players alike can experience all the excitement and depth of EQII's content without a daunting installation or a massive download. Players can register within minutes, download the client to join other people in an epic journey, and launch into adventure in a fantastical online 3D world. Extended is the ultimate MMORPG experience. Excitement with every breath and adventure around every turn is now available for free!
Between us and some other forum goers I'm sure we have heard soe reference EQ2X as an extended trial. Yes the name of the game says extended, but that doesn't in any way imply trial does it? The definition from soe says payment levels and suggests an different payment options. It is constantly referred to as free to play in the same manner as other free to play games, but the only option really available is a subscription fee. Soe spends more time calling the game free to play than it does calling it an extended trial. I don't even think they use the word trial anywhere in the FAQ, so I'm not sure I would say
It isn't hard to understand why some people feel mislead or that it really isn't a free to play game. Anyone who has followed the interviews and development of the system I can see them understanding the real system, but I don't think that goes for everyone.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That is just plain scary. Sub + cash shop.
It's plain stupid.
I just can't believe how many people are willing to bend over for it. Wisdom seems to elude MMO players.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Won't be me. I swore off SOE after hearing about SWG and CU.
I just can't consider them trustworthy.
It's plain stupid.
I just can't believe how many people are willing to bend over for it. Wisdom seems to elude MMO players.
Might as well get used to the hybrid model. Unless you play a blizzard or Bioware mmo it's the way the genre is going with or without you.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Do you mean an example because SOE didn't make either DDO or LOTRO even though you are right for the consumer Turbines free to play model is a much better deal.
I still give SOE credit for doing this because this is something I think is important to mmorpgs especially if they expect to make there money through longevity, if you have the content then it
s a good model.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Gold sub is not the same as subscribing to live. It is the same price, but you still do not get lvl 90, still have to pay for a guild w/station cash, and other silly things I can't remember atm. Live is way better, please don't subscribe to Extended w/the intentions of paying for Gold or higher, you're wasting your moneys!
Quote: "Cash shops fund terrorism, and buying mounts instead of earning them causes teenage pregnancies."
If *I* would have written such a sentence, it would cause me another warning or temporary ban! Not that I mind some fun exxageration, not at all! But the ban-hammer is been swung quite a lot these days. Last time I got a warning for explaining the difference of "ad hominem" arguments! Sheesh. But you MMORPG.com staff can write such sentences.
Maybe you really think this over, ja ne?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert