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Despite its flaws, I respect this game.
4Renziks
Member UncommonPosts: 390
Another thing that is not talked about in the pile of negativity is the fact that SE has some balls. FInally a game that is not catered to the masses but to the individual. I can see why people dont like it, i can also see a glimpse of the future where people are going to "miss the boat" just like FFXI because they didnt hang around. There are 3 main issues in this game that is piled over the top of all things positive...
1. UI lag - something i think will be fixed
2. No AH/item search function - Something i think will be fixed
3. Not user friendly - and this is borderline objective opinion.
I feel SE did not try to max profit with this title, if they did....you would see ! over NPC.
You would not die within the first 10 ranks
You would button mash to oblivion
Gear would be easy to attain
Crafting and gathering would consist of automatic 1 button conversion of items into better items.
You would be quest grinding until you reach max level.
In the end people need to lighten up, maybe all these games being released in a supposed unfinished product is because the nature of a complex ( do not quote me for saying FF is hard , but it is complex for better or worse is up to opinion) game takes time to evolve.
PS: pertaining to professional reviews...please see Warhammer online.
Thanks everyone, Cheers!
playing: Dragon Age
Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect
Want to try: Fallen Earth
Comments
I don't see where anything they did with this game was ballsy, other then releasing it like they did after all the feedback and suggestions in those betas that seem to have been all for naught. If you ignore the back-and-forth comments on some of these posts and read players' grievances with the game, you will find it is a lot more than those three points you listed. There are some very well expressed and valid complaints not directed at those three glaringly obvious points you listed, but to the actual core of the game. Sure, you could argue that a lot of the content is not here yet and we should wait it out. The problem seems that the faults the game does have are becoming more obvious as people are discovering there is very little to do in the game, and very little reason to do what you can do. All the fine points of this game have something working against them. I've been wanting something different in an MMORPG for a long time. I'm not seeing it here. The things that are "different" in this game are just another way of doing things that have already been done a million times. Seriously, there is nothing new here:
Crafting = Nothing new. The crafting animations and sounds are great. I guess that's new? Nah.
Gathering = Nothing new. Oh, sorry. There is a mini-game to it, and it really adds a lot of depth to gathering doesn't it?
Levequests = Nothing new. Oh look it's Dailies! What? Oh it's not a 24 hour reset. It's 36! That's different!
Multi-classing = Nothing new. I prefer this system (so far) a lot more than other games that I've played that allow it. It's not anything new though.
I could go on but I'm sure others will beat this dead horse.
I thought about making a well-constructed, thoughtful, and detailed post with references, links, and information for this OP to read that would completely and utterly negate the majority of his thread, and then I realized where I was writing and who I'd be writing to; it ain't worth the time. I will say that the title is inflammatory alone, given that this title deserves no respect whatsoever, in spite of any good it may contain. That's not to say that anyone can't like it, or shouldn't like it. It's that what they've released is not deserving of respect. Already TL;DR, so yeah... incoming hater vs. fanboi drama!
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Crafting nothing new? When have you ever had crafting abilities, when have you ever actually had to partake in the crafting instead of just watching a bar and praying on chance? There has never been a crafting system (that I've played) that involved the player like FFXIV does. Yes the crafting system does need some tweaking to alter the annoying stabilization of elements issues and what not, but still it is the best crafting system I've seen. Same goes with gathering completely. Levequests I agree are atrocious, and I too love the class system. And yes, the class system is new. Not even FFXI had separate levels, one for physical and one for class, and that was the same company. Other than that I haven't seen another game that had multiclassing, and I've played a plethora of MMOs.
I kind of wish developers would be a bit more transparent as to the "whys" of what they do.
It would at least help explain things and perhaps be a bit better at targetting a specific audience.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I also respect them, they took fraud and white collar crimes to a new level on the MMO market. /Bows
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
Everquest 2. I'm sure others that have played more than me can give you more examples. It doesn't have crafting abilities, I'll say that. Otherwise it's just as involved as this one.
I am currently playing this game. On these points I wanted to comment. EQ2 had the same "Interactive" crafting. Some people revered it, others hated it. As for multiclassing, yah its a great concept. Its just to bad that a new player coming to FF who is truly interested in the game cannot figure out how to change their class. SE really needs to add a tutorial/quest for this.
Besides wishing that they would redesign the entire keyboard/mouse UI the game is barely bareable. Im only sticking around because I like the challenge and tbh to see if I can look past even the negative posts made.
I respect absolutely nothing about this game.
No matter what someone thinks about the game but honestly nothing beats Dark & Light on that area.
As for multi-classing I can name a crap f2p off the top of my head that had multi-classing: NEO Online. Star Wars Galaxies had multi-classing, DDO has multi-classing, hell even Champions Online has a multi-classing system. I'm sure there are plenty of others.
I think you overlooked some of my statements.
"The things that are "different" in this game are just another way of doing things that have already been done a million times."
That's taken from my original post.
I keep seeing people saying that the game gives you no instructions on anything, which is the complete opposite. There are instructions for damn near everything in the game minus the crafting system. The problem is people are not reading. Take for instance the people that run out to the Aetheryte and stand there asking everyone how they start the levequest. The linkpearl the NPC tells you to use, gives you step by step instructions on how to initiate and complete the levequest. Same goes for the crafting levequests. People are not reading the in game text. Even the Aetheryte has an Adventurer's guide or something similarly named that tells you what stats and elements are for, how to switch classes, and so on. Sure there is no typical tutorial but the information is there. Except for what the hell the colored orbs mean.
When Everquest 2 first launched it had an extremely diverse crafting system. Basically every item in the game that could be crafted required components that could only be made by other classes. However, the uproar was so bad over this that SOE eventually completely revamped the system so that every class could make their own parts from start to finish. Later on, in a further crafting revamp, SOE elliminated all parts and basically made it a one-click-and-your done system. (It isn't that easy, but almost.)
When I saw that they had put a crafting system into this game that required components from many different trades, I was just amazed they would make the same mistake that SOE had with EQ2. However, I think the saving grace in this game is that you can actually train to be that other class to make the components you need, whereas in EQ2 you could not.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
During open beta, I created and deleted many characters from each of the 3 starting cites. By doing this, I came to realize that most of the tutorial information is actually there. The game actually does tell you what to do and where to go, for the most part.
The problem is that most of it comes through general chat and a new player is so overwhelmed by the whole experience that most of this is missed. It doesn't help that the general chat can scroll so fast that you will never even see the text before it disappears.
Also, SE did not pay close attention to what they were throwing at the new player. I remember the first leve I ever did was for Naked Moles and I was just bitching about how badly this game was designed right off the bat. Giving a new player that has barely learned the combat system a fight with mobs that break the combat lock is just a very bad idea.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
Id like to add that EQ2 crafting system was at the beginning just as complex and hard as FFXIV is . They had to nerf it because it seemed more like a chore than a game (you had to craft a dozen early components to get the 3-4 intermediate components to get the final result. It took about 30 mins to craft a tinfoil hat, and you needed it by the time you were finished. And EQ2 had recipes from the very beginning¡¡ you didnt have to minimize your screen , killing the game in the process, to check a third party webpage to see which components are needed. (btw, all these people describing this as "immersion" and "avoinding handholding", dont they kill that aspect of the game when they research the web for recipes instead of discovering them themselves and sorting them to memory or to trusty ole pen and paper?
That's what I've noticed as well.
There are tutorial messages but they seem to come in the chat area as well as the small box where the quest text usually appears. So, take people who don't generally read chat text and we have ourselves a few issues.
This is not to say that it's a perfect tutorial but it tells us about our skills, the skill points, etc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I hope you (or anyone else for that matter) don't think in any way I'm trying to be combative with this or any other response, I don't think you have/will, but just in case.
I had not played the game before the 22nd. Not even the beta. I noticed all of the text, nothing scrolled too fast, and I had hardly any issues on my first day, the ones I did have are things I think we can all agree on there being a need for more information (things like those colored orbs I mentioned, reset timer on levequests, recipes). It probably has a lot to do with my approach to a new game. I take my time and I read the text, I pay attention. A lot of the time with MMORPGs the first day might be the only time I'm actually reading quests or NPC conversations. A fair amount of players obviously were not paying attention and probably wanted to rush out of town and smack something with their weapon. I can see where players that want to rush and not pay attention would miss some key information. I don't think that is a fault of the game for those issues where the information is actually there. Sure it could be done in a different way.
I didn't have any issue with the Naked Moles breaking the combat lock. You just click on it again. My experience with this game seems to be a lot different than quite a few posters around here. I am not 100% sold on this game yet, I'm leaning towards cancelling as I am finding not enough of an enjoyment per time spent ratio. I just wanted to respond to a few issues I keep seeing that I found to be incorrect, at least from my experience. I'm not against or for this game at the present. I'm teetering somewhere in the middle. I'm going to keep giving this game a chance until it's time for me to decide whether to cancel or not.
Also, Vanguard crafting is also much more than watching a bar go across. You need crafting clothes to boost crafting ability. Crafting tools that you have to have equipped depending on what you're crafting, you need the mats and then you need extra items to use in case something goes wrong then you actually have to craft the item. Getting a perfect item is not easy.
even tho i see a lot of things in ffxiv which would need some polish/change/upgrade, i can right now think only of 1 problem i have with the game which is a core issue - the way crafting recipes are set up. i am not talking about the fact that you need a lot of components to craft any equipable item, but about a fact, that to e.g. craft rank 7. BS hammer you need rank 21+ handle from carpenter - come on, why the ranks of components do not match the rank of final item?
but besides that, i can not think of single core game feature i would have problem with.
EDIT: by core game features i mean game mechanics - so e.g. fact, that you dont have any meaningful way to search for an item you want to buy i dont count as a core game feature
I was actually agreeing with you about everything you said in your first post, and I agree with everything you said above except for what I highlighted. I think that is exactly the fault of the game and not the players.
It is the responsibility of the game designer to understand its player base, not the other way around. The problem isn't that the tutorial information is there and people aren't reading it. The problem is that the tutorial information that is presented is not presented in a clear and concise manner.
For instance, the very first battle you encounter that is supposed to be the battle tutorial starts with a pop-up message that says something like "To fight the enemy, enter Active Mode". Besides the fact that this is a terrible tutorial message alone, this automatically makes me think that all subsequent tutorial messages will come via pop-up. Since they actually come via general chat, and I am focused on the fight and expecting messages to pop-up, I am completely ignoring the general chat window. And, to make matters worse, the general chat window is scrolling because of combat spam.
If the tutorial information is buried by the mechanics of the game so the average player misses it, then that is just bad design and a complete misunderstanding of its player base. SE should have spent a lot more time developing the tutorials to make them perfectly clear and to cover every basic aspect of the game, like the ones you mention above, before ever releasing this game to the public.
If you play FFXIII, there are so many tutorials it almost gets intrusive. You are still getting tutorials to pop-up half way through the game. This makes it even more perplexing as to why they don't have a complete tutorial set-up in this game.
EDIT: Sorry, I missed your, "Sure it could be done in a different way" part which is pretty much exactly what I am saying here.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
The more I consider it I think I have been a tad bit too lenient about this issue of tutorials. I suppose that stems from what you alluded to with FFXIII, that they can be obtrusive at times depending on how they are done in a certain game. I really found it rather enjoyable the way the first few hours are set up for a new player, but you are right. This is a big name title and they should have given much more consideration to new players.
This game completely baffles me in some respects like Square Enix's initial claims of it being casual friendly and then seeing that it's absolutely not casual friendly. The only thing that seems casual are the guildleves. It really seems like Square Enix wasn't even sure who they were marketing this game to. From what I've been reading it's not even being received well by it's home country or fans of FFXI. Whether I end up cancelling or not, I will be checking on the status of this game. I'm really interested in seeing what the future holds for this game. It is in a really bad place of limbo right now.
Sadly, I think I am giving this game more of a chance then it deserves simply because there just isn't an MMORPG out there that interests me right now. This has been a rather unremarkable year for this genre.
I fully understand all the negative comments. I myself have had some VERY negative comments about other games and a few about FFXIV. The thing is this is the first MMO in a long time that has some depth, is not a mash buttons get gear, get uber gear now teabag everyone. It is so far from cookie cutter characters and easy gear-tastic gameplay that I am sure many are very turned off but it is just htose things that make me loyal nd love this game. WoW, LOTRO and many others are just too dumbed down (I won't memntion the NGE game here, but um really?) and easy to play for me. But that is not what 9 million other players want so they win, I am just glad someone made a game that forces me to work for things and think. I know WoW has pretty in depth parts and I still play it and love it but when I want to develop a character and not grind a toon I turn to FFXIV. Again not a game fro everyone but for me it is great. Now where is the UI fix???
Awesome quote!!! haha
Anyways...last night I finally decided to explore the world and then it hit me. I may be wrong, but thus far it seems like the game world is 3 zones laid out exactly the same (game mechanics wise) and the graphics/world building is cut/paste throughout each zone...
- One main city used to obtain levequests (aka craft/kill missions), finish said craft missions and to buy/sell/repair items.
- No quests (except for the major story arc quests that happen every 5 to 10 ranks).
- Camps outside scattered around the zone to start kill missions mentioned above.
Now I admit I am still playing at n00b levels, but please tell me there is way more to the game that I am missing. I keep trying to tell myself to stick it out, but it just isnt that fun right now. I freaking love Final Fantasy too, so this sucks...
Unfortunately there isn't anything else. There is crafting and there is linkshells to chat in or grouping up with people for leves or just to grind. That's it. It's about as bare bones and aimless as you can get. The community is non-existant outside of linkshells. Granted there is a language barrier with multiple countries of players in the game but I very rarely see anyone talk and I've played on two different servers. I've gone afk in town, at camps, out in the zones, came back 20 minutes or more later and not a single word in my chat box. This game was released to early and although Square Enix has said there are a lot more quests to be added into the game (as well as chocobos and airships), I wouldn't expect to see any of that for another few months.
I'm not telling you this because I'm a hater. I like the game it just needs a lot of improvement.
Then you need to play more mmos. Try Ryzom, Vanguard, EQ2, and more. FFXIV is not the first to have this type of "mini-game" crafting system. Same with their "mini-game" harvesting, been done before. In fact, Ryzom's harvesting makes FFXIV's look like a kindergarten outing.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-