Here's the simplest way to think of it... look at every single tank/healer/dps style of fight out there, with WoW being a glaring example. Every fight, every freakin' one, is scripted. You do this. You do that. You avoid this. Static. Every time, same thing if you're successful.
GW2... they threw the script away.
YEah..why do you need a script when you do it all yourself. No need for other participants.
Except you do need them, because you are not a dedicated healer. You can't mitigate all the incoming damage by yourself. You can't avoid getting stunned/knocked back/CC'd all by your lonesome because your class does not have it all. You are a jack of some trades but master of none. You NEED other people to fill in the gaps.
Simple. Next question? =p
GW2 didn't throw the script away, they're just different scripts. People are still going to have to do this, do that based on what they're fighting does.
The classes just seem more hybridized. The funny thing, people talk about wanting something different from the trinity, but you can always distill classes, skill based, etc into its basic components of offense (dps), defense (tank), support (healing, cc) Sometimes the healing is removed or mixed in for everyone.
Personally I like dedicated healer classes, and having hybrids too. Also dedicated healer doesn't mean, they only heal. I've played many healer classes that had buffs, debuffs, dots, cc, fairly good dps. Often good debuffs, cc limited the amount of healing I needed to do. Just have to adapt to the situation.
Oh, the one thing I found funny, people mentioned maybe 5% of players like to heal and play healers. While I don't think 95% of people don't like to heal at all, I would think the majority of players don't want to bother with healing which is why there are a lot more pure dps and tanks than hybrids with limited healing. Given that, if most of the classes in GW2 have to heal, then the majority of players will have to do something they don't like, hehe.
I think this will have a good effect on dps classes. It'll give them support options to mix in with offensive capability. Pitching fireballs for five minutes can get very boring, even if you have a complex rotation and fire to not stand in. The trick to a good battle is for it to be varied enough to keep you on your toes, but consistent enough that you can practice it and it doesn't just come down to luck.
Completely removing dedicated support positions is a bad choice, but mixing more support into the rest of the group is good.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
It will really depend on the high level PvE encounters.
If everyone is a tank-DPS-healer hybrid then where is the team work? Just grab 4 other people and the 5 of you are all just doing your own thing and not even caring what the others are doing.
In the "hated Holy Trinity" each member depends on the others to get the job done and if one were to die then you will all likely die so you make sure that doesnt happen. Different types of people working together towards a common goal because none of you can do it on your own. No "Lone Wolf" mentality.
But in the GW2 model if some one dies then so what, you suffer the loss of 1 tank-DPS-healer hybrid but you have 4 other tank-DPS-healer hybrids.
If PvE in GW2 is just 5 people doing their own thing and not caring what the others are doing then thats not "grouping" or "team work" or even "fun".
It will really depend on the high level PvE encounters.
If everyone is a tank-DPS-healer hybrid then where is the team work? Just grab 4 other people and the 5 of you are all just doing your own thing and not even caring what the others are doing.
In the "hated Holy Trinity" each member depends on the others to get the job done and if one were to die then you will all likely die so you make sure that doesnt happen. Different types of people working together towards a common goal because none of you can do it on your own. No "Lone Wolf" mentality.
But in the GW2 model if some one dies then so what, you suffer the loss of 1 tank-DPS-healer hybrid but you have 4 other tank-DPS-healer hybrids.
If PvE in GW2 is just 5 people doing their own thing and not caring what the others are doing then thats not "grouping" or "team work" or even "fun".
So in a nation's army, any professional army, you have to have teamwork. In fact it is the single most important part of the military. In a squad you are not going to have a "tank", "DPS", "healer". You rely on group level tactics. You have to think of this game in those terms, not the rigid roles that you are used to in typical mmos.
It will really depend on the high level PvE encounters.
If everyone is a tank-DPS-healer hybrid then where is the team work? Just grab 4 other people and the 5 of you are all just doing your own thing and not even caring what the others are doing.
In the "hated Holy Trinity" each member depends on the others to get the job done and if one were to die then you will all likely die so you make sure that doesnt happen. Different types of people working together towards a common goal because none of you can do it on your own. No "Lone Wolf" mentality.
But in the GW2 model if some one dies then so what, you suffer the loss of 1 tank-DPS-healer hybrid but you have 4 other tank-DPS-healer hybrids.
If PvE in GW2 is just 5 people doing their own thing and not caring what the others are doing then thats not "grouping" or "team work" or even "fun".
So in a nation's army, any professional army, you have to have teamwork. In fact it is the single most important part of the military. In a squad you are not going to have a "tank", "DPS", "healer". You rely on group level tactics. You have to think of this game in those terms, not the rigid roles that you are used to in typical mmos.
Yes what you said ^^
As for Xiaoki, the problem with all you people is that you refuse to think outside the box. Everyone that is complaining about GW2 and how every class is a hybrid is more or less wrong. Everyone is just applying the typical WoW standard holy trinity and compressing them into one character and saying "hey so thats what GW2 toons are gunna be like." You have no idea about the mechanic so why must everyone speak ill about it before you have a better understanding?
What part of Anet is trying to be Innovative is so hard for people to understand? (god forced to become/sound like a f'ing GW2 fanboi.) If you people spent a 1/4 of the time you do posting on these forums to actually go to their website and read up on things you wouldn't be complain so much.
Information is power, I suggest people start read before posting and making yourself look stupid.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
It's a damn shame that people complain ANet trying to do something innovative by removing the dedicated healing class, without even understand how the game would work with a healer. I only just read this article, which explains how a difficult PvE encounter can turn out, even without a dedicated healer.
its great they removed healing class, they wanted to go in new original direction of mmorpg. Heal + Tank + DPS thing got old, arenanet offers something new, every class can support each other in many new ways...
It will really depend on the high level PvE encounters.
If everyone is a tank-DPS-healer hybrid then where is the team work? Just grab 4 other people and the 5 of you are all just doing your own thing and not even caring what the others are doing.
In the "hated Holy Trinity" each member depends on the others to get the job done and if one were to die then you will all likely die so you make sure that doesnt happen. Different types of people working together towards a common goal because none of you can do it on your own. No "Lone Wolf" mentality.
But in the GW2 model if some one dies then so what, you suffer the loss of 1 tank-DPS-healer hybrid but you have 4 other tank-DPS-healer hybrids.
If PvE in GW2 is just 5 people doing their own thing and not caring what the others are doing then thats not "grouping" or "team work" or even "fun".
So in a nation's army, any professional army, you have to have teamwork. In fact it is the single most important part of the military. In a squad you are not going to have a "tank", "DPS", "healer". You rely on group level tactics. You have to think of this game in those terms, not the rigid roles that you are used to in typical mmos.
In actual military action, healing on the battlefield is kept to a minimum. Nobody stands around tossing out bandages and juiceboxes, they actually participate in the combat. Real healing/medical care takes place after the battle.
It's a damn shame that people complain ANet trying to do something innovative by removing the dedicated healing class, without even understand how the game would work with a healer. I only just read this article, which explains how a difficult PvE encounter can turn out, even without a dedicated healer.
its great they removed healing class, they wanted to go in new original direction of mmorpg. Heal + Tank + DPS thing got old, arenanet offers something new, every class can support each other in many new ways...
Anyone remember when the trinity was heals / meat shield / crowd control and most everyone could DPS?
1) Any pure healing class with no damage component cannot level without a group.
2) Any healing class with as much power in healing as above coupled with decent damage (AoC's PoM, anyone?) becomes rapidly overpowered.
3) If we base healers on supposition 1, they need a healer to level. And so they don't feel useless in a group, you need to up the incoming damage to where no one can survive it reasonably without a healer. Congrats, 2 legs of the holy trinity in just seconds.
4) The least played role is healer in most games (Possibly tank in some, but it's iffy.)
5) So, now we have a group that can't play without a healer, only due to the relatively low number of healers, they can't find one.
Sound familiar? Every MMO from EQ-WoW did it, and beyond. And suffered for it.I'm not saying healers aren't fun. I love my Shammie. But introducing a dedicated healer class means throwing the whole entire levelling and grouping paradigm off to make healers viable, which means a stale, boring, holy trinity-esque game. We have enough of that.
If GW2 can promise me the item shop won't imbalace gameplay in any way, I'm sold.
Originally posted by Master10K It's a damn shame that people complain ANet trying to do something innovative by removing the dedicated healing class, without even understand how the game would work with a healer. I only just read this article, which explains how a difficult PvE encounter can turn out, even without a dedicated healer.
The PvE encounter described in that article sounded HORRIBLE.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you have to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
The PvE encounter described in that article sounded HORRIBLE.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you have to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
I hear what you're saying, and I can understand that feeling of "death has no meaning." It's not entirely accurate though. Parties CAN wipe. Even with that ability to bring someone back, spending precious seconds doing that could be time you don't have. It could leave you vulnerable, and BAM! Now there's 2 down, and it will only get worse.
Plus we don't know the limits to rezzing. there could be a cooldown, there could be (and should be) some penalties. And bad positioning and tactics could still kill a raid, even if they can all brez.
The holy trinity is all well and good, but I'd like to see a game where I don't HAVE to have that. Where we don't need some beefy guy with no damage oiutput standing around getting beat, and some guy playing whack-a-mole with health bars instead of playing an exciting MMO, while 5 other guys stand around and smack a baddie. I agree there's potential for bad here, but also for good. I'm looking forward to seeing someone try somehting new. Honestly, the innovatire portions of the games you mention weren't failing points to me. Especially the more interesting ideas FFXIV and APB have had. They failed because they forgot to respect the basics of having fun, providing an apporpriate challenge level, and tolerable learning curve.
It's a damn shame that people complain ANet trying to do something innovative by removing the dedicated healing class, without even understand how the game would work with a healer. I only just read this article, which explains how a difficult PvE encounter can turn out, even without a dedicated healer.
The PvE encounter described in that article sounded HORRIBLE.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
The intention was so that action is as continuous as possible while minimizing downtime. It's not fun to experience a prolonged downtime. The built-in mechanics doesn't allow this. You'd first have to go through not being revived by players in your group or outside your group then not surviving the down state before you pay a small gold fee and resurrect in a shrine and run back to where you were. Regarding your stats, there is no death penatly. And while there is no dedicated healing class, the healing class itself has been "split" into viable support roles" certain classes can take up.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you hav e to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
Your group would need to learn that to overcome a stalemate you might encounter with a boss.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
Your healer died. That wasn't hard to figure out.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
You know what other game allowed everyone the ability to rez? GW1. And yet somehow few people have managed to clear everything in the game. Maybe because its not as easy as people seem to think it is, just because everyone can rez.
The PvE encounter described in that article sounded HORRIBLE.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you have to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
When you have a group of 5 people spending a second or 2 to rez one player is a long time. You also have no tank and will have to keep a look on mobs, and you might have to heal people yourself during that time. The difficulty of no dedicated healer and no aggro control is a lot higher than the fact that everyone can rez.
Also in games like eQ2 can the healer share out a small one time rez to other players (and many classes including my bard have rez) and that doesn't make the game easier than Wow.
No tanking is what makes things really hard. The holy trinity is really easy compared to all other system, you just have a single thing to do in combat and mobs rarely surprises you.
The more things you as a player will have to keep look on the harder it is. And you will have too keep an eye on all mobs, the other players health at the same time you try to do as much DPS as you can.
1. I was always assured a Raid spot when I played WOW and when I played D&D
2. You really had to pay attention to what was going on.........especially in WOW.
Yes I will miss them but...................it will be refreshing to do something different and Im looking forward to seeing how this will work. Looking forward to GW2.............later than sooner but maybe thats a good thing these days.
Even shit sometimes has corn in it. That's content.
Sometimes poo is soft and other times it's rock hard, that's variety.
Actually the only thing FFXIV even has in common with crap is that it stinks.
The PvE encounter described in that article sounded HORRIBLE.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you have to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
When you have a group of 5 people spending a second or 2 to rez one player is a long time. You also have no tank and will have to keep a look on mobs, and you might have to heal people yourself during that time. The difficulty of no dedicated healer and no aggro control is a lot higher than the fact that everyone can rez.
Also in games like eQ2 can the healer share out a small one time rez to other players (and many classes including my bard have rez) and that doesn't make the game easier than Wow.
No tanking is what makes things really hard. The holy trinity is really easy compared to all other system, you just have a single thing to do in combat and mobs rarely surprises you.
The more things you as a player will have to keep look on the harder it is. And you will have too keep an eye on all mobs, the other players health at the same time you try to do as much DPS as you can.
This ^^
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
"Everyone take a deep breath. It's going to be OK.
We have lots of people in our studio that enjoyed playing monks in Guild Wars and healers in other games. We examined what it was about the healer archetypes that people really enjoyed, and we took a look at what it was about those archetypes that made the game less enjoyable. Then we created professions to appeal to those types of players.
Support players want to be able to say, "Remember that one time when I saved you from certain death?" They want to stand in the line of fire and block attacks. They want to surround their allies with a swirling dome of air that keeps enemy projectiles from passing through it. It's not about clicking on a health bar and watching it go up, it's about being there for your friends when they need you."
Straight from Anet, there will be support professions, they haven't forgotten about people who like to play support classes. The only thing they are doing different is they don't want people waiting around looking for a healers, so they basically made it possible for ever profession in the game to fill a support role. Even the really Core classes that you think would fill dps roles will be able to be built for full time support. there are also rumors that one of the new profesions will be a support focused profession according to one dev. Anet also didn't want anyone standing in the back all the time casting heals they want support to be more proactive and less reactive, we will only find out if that is true when the game is released.
I was a huge fan of the original GW. I loved the variety in classes and the different pvp combat systems as well as the pve missions. When I started reading about GW 2 I became very interested and very excited since I haven't found a new MMO I have enjoyed in quite a while, but my issue is......... Why no healing class???
I am so thrown back as to why they would want to alienate a class that a lot of people love playing.
I was just completely dissapointed because healing classes are the only classes I really enjoy playing and have no interest in playing a game with no healing class.
How do all you other healers feel?
Sorry I cannot sympathize, I am going to enjoy the heck out of this game when it comes out. I'm quite sure there will be some compensation in terms of healing though, maybe not a class to begin with but a class may be introduced somewhere down the line. Either way I am not letting that stop me, even if they never include one~
My only fear is I hope this won't be like FFXIV and totally let me down.
I was also the designated healer for my raiding days in WoW and for my group of homies that played mmos with me. But I can honestly say that it got boring for me. Being a healer mean being more observant and sitting in the background watching bars. I for one have found more joy from being part of the action. I welcome GW2 and their no healer policy. I cannot wait to dive in.
That seems to be the route that SWTOR is taking as well. I guess it's just a matter of "wait and see" as to how fun the support classes are without the full time healing factor. I can't for the life of me see the appeal in hiding in the back and staring at bars, but I'm sure glad it appeals to some people!
I was also the designated healer for my raiding days in WoW and for my group of homies that played mmos with me. But I can honestly say that it got boring for me. Being a healer mean being more observant and sitting in the background watching bars. I for one have found more joy from being part of the action. I welcome GW2 and their no healer policy. I cannot wait to dive in.
That seems to be the route that SWTOR is taking as well. I guess it's just a matter of "wait and see" as to how fun the support classes are without the full time healing factor. I can't for the life of me see the appeal in hiding in the back and staring at bars, but I'm sure glad it appeals to some people!
Well... not gunna lie, it appealed to me just fine. Matter of fact I loved it when I was in WoW. It felt like you were god. Especially if you were really good, you would have everyone's life's in your hands and some of the best feelings in my life still come from those TBC raids that just before we would be about to down a boss, we would start to wipe, all the healers started to die and I along with my usual druid buddy would be the last 2 healers in the raid fighting to keep everyone and ourselves alive.....
Was good times.... good times.
But anyway, I'm all for this new style Anet is bring us. I can't wait to play it and enjoy the difficulty the mechanics brings to us.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only thing I don' t like about this game are the loading screens when you are changing areas, like entering Divinity's Reach.. I hoped that it would be a open world game but I can live with this. The dialog scenes are not needed too. Otherwise it's perfect and I will preorder the game.
Comments
GW2 didn't throw the script away, they're just different scripts. People are still going to have to do this, do that based on what they're fighting does.
The classes just seem more hybridized. The funny thing, people talk about wanting something different from the trinity, but you can always distill classes, skill based, etc into its basic components of offense (dps), defense (tank), support (healing, cc) Sometimes the healing is removed or mixed in for everyone.
Personally I like dedicated healer classes, and having hybrids too. Also dedicated healer doesn't mean, they only heal. I've played many healer classes that had buffs, debuffs, dots, cc, fairly good dps. Often good debuffs, cc limited the amount of healing I needed to do. Just have to adapt to the situation.
Oh, the one thing I found funny, people mentioned maybe 5% of players like to heal and play healers. While I don't think 95% of people don't like to heal at all, I would think the majority of players don't want to bother with healing which is why there are a lot more pure dps and tanks than hybrids with limited healing. Given that, if most of the classes in GW2 have to heal, then the majority of players will have to do something they don't like, hehe.
Why should you have to do something you don't like in a video game?
I think this will have a good effect on dps classes. It'll give them support options to mix in with offensive capability. Pitching fireballs for five minutes can get very boring, even if you have a complex rotation and fire to not stand in. The trick to a good battle is for it to be varied enough to keep you on your toes, but consistent enough that you can practice it and it doesn't just come down to luck.
Completely removing dedicated support positions is a bad choice, but mixing more support into the rest of the group is good.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
It will really depend on the high level PvE encounters.
If everyone is a tank-DPS-healer hybrid then where is the team work? Just grab 4 other people and the 5 of you are all just doing your own thing and not even caring what the others are doing.
In the "hated Holy Trinity" each member depends on the others to get the job done and if one were to die then you will all likely die so you make sure that doesnt happen. Different types of people working together towards a common goal because none of you can do it on your own. No "Lone Wolf" mentality.
But in the GW2 model if some one dies then so what, you suffer the loss of 1 tank-DPS-healer hybrid but you have 4 other tank-DPS-healer hybrids.
If PvE in GW2 is just 5 people doing their own thing and not caring what the others are doing then thats not "grouping" or "team work" or even "fun".
So in a nation's army, any professional army, you have to have teamwork. In fact it is the single most important part of the military. In a squad you are not going to have a "tank", "DPS", "healer". You rely on group level tactics. You have to think of this game in those terms, not the rigid roles that you are used to in typical mmos.
Yes what you said ^^
As for Xiaoki, the problem with all you people is that you refuse to think outside the box. Everyone that is complaining about GW2 and how every class is a hybrid is more or less wrong. Everyone is just applying the typical WoW standard holy trinity and compressing them into one character and saying "hey so thats what GW2 toons are gunna be like." You have no idea about the mechanic so why must everyone speak ill about it before you have a better understanding?
What part of Anet is trying to be Innovative is so hard for people to understand? (god forced to become/sound like a f'ing GW2 fanboi.) If you people spent a 1/4 of the time you do posting on these forums to actually go to their website and read up on things you wouldn't be complain so much.
Information is power, I suggest people start read before posting and making yourself look stupid.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
It's a damn shame that people complain ANet trying to do something innovative by removing the dedicated healing class, without even understand how the game would work with a healer. I only just read this article, which explains how a difficult PvE encounter can turn out, even without a dedicated healer.
its great they removed healing class, they wanted to go in new original direction of mmorpg. Heal + Tank + DPS thing got old, arenanet offers something new, every class can support each other in many new ways...
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In actual military action, healing on the battlefield is kept to a minimum. Nobody stands around tossing out bandages and juiceboxes, they actually participate in the combat. Real healing/medical care takes place after the battle.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Anyone remember when the trinity was heals / meat shield / crowd control and most everyone could DPS?
OK, here's why no healing classes.
1) Any pure healing class with no damage component cannot level without a group.
2) Any healing class with as much power in healing as above coupled with decent damage (AoC's PoM, anyone?) becomes rapidly overpowered.
3) If we base healers on supposition 1, they need a healer to level. And so they don't feel useless in a group, you need to up the incoming damage to where no one can survive it reasonably without a healer. Congrats, 2 legs of the holy trinity in just seconds.
4) The least played role is healer in most games (Possibly tank in some, but it's iffy.)
5) So, now we have a group that can't play without a healer, only due to the relatively low number of healers, they can't find one.
Sound familiar? Every MMO from EQ-WoW did it, and beyond. And suffered for it.I'm not saying healers aren't fun. I love my Shammie. But introducing a dedicated healer class means throwing the whole entire levelling and grouping paradigm off to make healers viable, which means a stale, boring, holy trinity-esque game. We have enough of that.
If GW2 can promise me the item shop won't imbalace gameplay in any way, I'm sold.
If someone dies just revive them and continue. So basically people dying during combat has little to no meaning.
Why learn useless things like strategies, boss tactics and team work when all you have to do is beat your heads against it and if some one is stupid and stands in fire then it doesnt matter, because you can just revive them over and over again.
In a "Holy Trinity" set up if the healer goes down then you will probably fail and wipe. Which means the group will have to figure out what happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the next attempt. In other word, they will have to use their brains and think.
What you people are failing to remember is that things like "innovation" and "new" are not inherently good. At this point "innovative" and "new" are meaningless buzz words that are used by hype mongering fanboys. Ive heard every new release like Aion, Champions Online, APB and FF14 called "innovative" and "new".
So, excuse me if I dont get excited over GW2 being "innovative" and "new".
I hear what you're saying, and I can understand that feeling of "death has no meaning." It's not entirely accurate though. Parties CAN wipe. Even with that ability to bring someone back, spending precious seconds doing that could be time you don't have. It could leave you vulnerable, and BAM! Now there's 2 down, and it will only get worse.
Plus we don't know the limits to rezzing. there could be a cooldown, there could be (and should be) some penalties. And bad positioning and tactics could still kill a raid, even if they can all brez.
The holy trinity is all well and good, but I'd like to see a game where I don't HAVE to have that. Where we don't need some beefy guy with no damage oiutput standing around getting beat, and some guy playing whack-a-mole with health bars instead of playing an exciting MMO, while 5 other guys stand around and smack a baddie. I agree there's potential for bad here, but also for good. I'm looking forward to seeing someone try somehting new. Honestly, the innovatire portions of the games you mention weren't failing points to me. Especially the more interesting ideas FFXIV and APB have had. They failed because they forgot to respect the basics of having fun, providing an apporpriate challenge level, and tolerable learning curve.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
You know what other game allowed everyone the ability to rez? GW1. And yet somehow few people have managed to clear everything in the game. Maybe because its not as easy as people seem to think it is, just because everyone can rez.
When you have a group of 5 people spending a second or 2 to rez one player is a long time. You also have no tank and will have to keep a look on mobs, and you might have to heal people yourself during that time. The difficulty of no dedicated healer and no aggro control is a lot higher than the fact that everyone can rez.
Also in games like eQ2 can the healer share out a small one time rez to other players (and many classes including my bard have rez) and that doesn't make the game easier than Wow.
No tanking is what makes things really hard. The holy trinity is really easy compared to all other system, you just have a single thing to do in combat and mobs rarely surprises you.
The more things you as a player will have to keep look on the harder it is. And you will have too keep an eye on all mobs, the other players health at the same time you try to do as much DPS as you can.
always loved healers.........
1. I was always assured a Raid spot when I played WOW and when I played D&D
2. You really had to pay attention to what was going on.........especially in WOW.
Yes I will miss them but...................it will be refreshing to do something different and Im looking forward to seeing how this will work. Looking forward to GW2.............later than sooner but maybe thats a good thing these days.
Even shit sometimes has corn in it. That's content.
Sometimes poo is soft and other times it's rock hard, that's variety.
Actually the only thing FFXIV even has in common with crap is that it stinks.
but the music's good For 5 minutes - "theartist"
This ^^
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Read the whole thing......
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
Sorry I cannot sympathize, I am going to enjoy the heck out of this game when it comes out. I'm quite sure there will be some compensation in terms of healing though, maybe not a class to begin with but a class may be introduced somewhere down the line. Either way I am not letting that stop me, even if they never include one~
My only fear is I hope this won't be like FFXIV and totally let me down.
That seems to be the route that SWTOR is taking as well. I guess it's just a matter of "wait and see" as to how fun the support classes are without the full time healing factor. I can't for the life of me see the appeal in hiding in the back and staring at bars, but I'm sure glad it appeals to some people!
Well... not gunna lie, it appealed to me just fine. Matter of fact I loved it when I was in WoW. It felt like you were god. Especially if you were really good, you would have everyone's life's in your hands and some of the best feelings in my life still come from those TBC raids that just before we would be about to down a boss, we would start to wipe, all the healers started to die and I along with my usual druid buddy would be the last 2 healers in the raid fighting to keep everyone and ourselves alive.....
Was good times.... good times.
But anyway, I'm all for this new style Anet is bring us. I can't wait to play it and enjoy the difficulty the mechanics brings to us.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Proving once again, there really isn't anything new to talk about any more.
But as a person who enjoy's healing I'm a bit wary with this approach but will wait until I get a chance to play the game before passing judgement.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only thing I don' t like about this game are the loading screens when you are changing areas, like entering Divinity's Reach.. I hoped that it would be a open world game but I can live with this. The dialog scenes are not needed too. Otherwise it's perfect and I will preorder the game.
Fight fire with Frost!