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The de facto problem with MMOs
Sroek
Member Posts: 87
The technology of allowing thousands of concurrent players in a single simulated environment is, for the most part, being utterly wasted on uninspired and unimaginative roleplaying games.
With this kind of capability, there should be infinitely more ambitious projects than the inane garbage accessible to us at the moment. For instance, how about a wild west virtual realtiy where players have free reign to play out an alternate history of the American frontier? Obviously, it would be the sandbox type with construction elements, player-driven economics and unrestricted PvP.
You'd have a tremendously captivating parallel universe where intricate social dynamics are taking place 24/7. Every possible role would be fulfilled in order to fuel the complex web of a civilization in its infancy stages. There would be trade, conflict, politics, crime and everything else in between happening at all levels, layers and scales. Every second spent playing a game like this would be no less than 100% thrill.
Comments
It sounds like a pretty good idea for a game but in all honesty it still sounds like it has elements from games we've seen before. I guess if there are more people who think they like the idea of mmorpgs but don't have one they currently play than there are those that do have one to play there is a problem with mmorpg's but I don't know that to bea fact.
It's just too trendy to say "something is wrong with the mmorpg genre" because WOW has more subs than every other mmorpg put together and if you add all those players together you are talking about alot of people who must see something right with the genre.
The design of mmorpgs are as such that I would think it rather difficult to fully enjoy them while playing multiple mmo's at the same time anyway so why does it always seem to boil down for mmo players to a war on the industry because of the choice the player has made (to play one particular game over another).
Your game sounds awesome but really it's simply just another idea much like what we already see, let it begin development and see how much flaming goes on about every decision made and how everything is done. Wait until people start to complain about mob squads robbing them while they are building, or wait until mob squads complain that they can't do it. More importantly let the dev then wait for the costs to rise and the profits to shrink and see what the game becomes.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I've been saying this long before it became a trend - and it's becoming a trend because more and more people are beginning to open their eyes. I recently got fed up with having nothing to play so I'm resurfacing my concerns to the public.
I was also a beta tester for WoW, it's an awesome game for what it is. I liked WoW because I was an avid Warcraft III player and I ejaculated in my pants when they announced that an MMO would be made surrounding the Warcraft universe.
Nonetheless, this doesn't take away from the fact that the MMO genre is a severely untapped genre. I assure you will be seeing some great announcements in innovations that will come completely out of left field within the next couple of years, which means it'll be another decade before we'll get to play anything remotely akin to what I'm talking about.
I don't think it's a problem with MMO's, I feel it's a problem with it's community, where it isn't a problem for the majority, it does seem to be a problem for today's minority which is where I am in in these day's.
It's rather simple and we can or atleast already could know this from our past experiance, which is that games that don't do the "handhold" it's players don't work for the majority of gamers out there in these day's. Lack of patients is also one of the more severe issue's this genre is plagued with, people don't seem willing to actually build something, instead they want it all and want it instant. Ingame economies take allot of time, instead players will start to complain about ingame economies often within a week of a games release, more often people don't want a virtual experiance, they just seem to want what all other genre of gaming already provide, where I keep saying a MMORPG could or in my opinion should be so much more, but as said I am part of the minority who wants more of a virtual ingame experiance cause if I want to feel like a hero I do so in the tons of singleplayer games that offer this type of feel.
So in short I still do not feel it's a problem of MMO's being the way they are but more due to the players that have come to this genre. But thankfully for the majority of players in this genre they have plenty of options in what to play, we the minority either have to go back to our old games, but as gamers we also want to see the way we like it be more evolved than it used to be, or lower our priorities and enjoy some of the indie games out there.
how would that work?
literally noone would want to be bankers, office clerks, saloon owners, diligence drivers, miners, city councilors, undertakers, shepperds or farmers
49% of the players would want to be lone gunners
49% of the players would want to be sheriffs
2% of the players would want to be prostitutes "2g dance for you!!!"
the wild west chat would be constantly filled with the latest 4chan copypasta
people would QQ all day long that the winchester is OP and the colts need moar damage
people would QQ that they want to roll a sin/ninja class
people would QQ that you can only have 1 mount
sorry bud, but you are 25 years late. MMos are now mainstream, that means you no longer will find level headed mature players, instead you have to deal with the scum of the earth and/or 11 year old skinny kids acting like big muscled tough guidos on the net
I don't think you are incorrect but you are seeing it from a wrong view point, I can't help but take offense when I hear people say things like "we wan't/play games that hold your hand", and that people don't seem to be willing to build something? At the end of the day they/we want our virtual experience just not your virtual experience.
The idea that any mmorpg on the market doesn't take some time to grow into is a joke or maybe it's the case that these type of gamers are a part of some five percent society as in the five percent of mmorpg gamers who just "get it" all. I say this because genralizations like the ones you are making have been going on since vanilla WOW and I beg to differ, I had my list of goals to achieve in that game and they took me months to do them, I had my goals to achieve in LOTRO and often it took me months to do it, in SWG I had objectives I wanted to achieve and it took me sometimes up to a year to do that. I'm thirty six years old and don't have an entire year to wait to achieve a class in a game, that doesn't mean I want my hand held and it certainly doesn't equal instant gratification just quicker gratifiction.
I'm happy for those who are settled into the fact that mmorpgs is the be all end all for them and that they are satisfied with not going out with the wife and kids and friends or those who don't work two jobs to make ends meet but there are probably more of us that don't fit that mold and shouldn't be subject to insulting generalizations like that.
Because games play like that to you as a player doesn't say anything about the type of person who enjoys that game because everyone's experience is there own.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
You're being too pessimistic and assumptive.
Funny post with truth's I eluded to in my first response, the funny thing though is your description makes this game sound quite familiar to SWG which makes this post seem like more than a clever way to pine away for the days of every game being a sandbox which are long gone for most of the devs out here. And why not? As a dev to be honest the choice is simple because truth be told all these "cookie cutter" games that succeed deal with far fewer headaches (and make more money) than the devs who attempt to serve this audience of "mature" gamers who basically complain and throw everything under the bus anyway.
On the business end it's like the difference between buying a starbucks inside of a mall or a lemonaide stand in the middle of a glacier.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
These games are always compromises between good games and size/vastness. You just cannot have a Call of Duty-like sharp FPS or alternatively sharp and balanced RTS of Starcraft in a game that has "thousands of players" on the same server. It is just impossible. The more players you bunch up together the more you'll lose those gamey aspects.
What we can hope (atleast I do) that the compromises are a little better than the sum of its parts. For example, I don't expect much from the Tribes Universe FPS-wise but I'm curious to see how they made it large scale without giving too much away what makes good FPS a good FPS.
In short it is unrealistic to expect the...
...economy of economy driven games (Settlers, Sim City, Transport Tycoon etc.),
story of single player rpgs and adventure games,
sharp movement and combat of platformers, action games and FPS games
AND the concurrent users in same area from MMOs...
...all in a same game. Unrealistic. Even if it was technologically possible (which it isn't) it would be too great, too expensive undertaking.
I do agree that having a some sort of game cycle or a "round" of some sorts is worth exploring. Say the American conquest starts over every 2-6 months etc. and keep a leaderboard from the rounds.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I have to agree, its not possible for a single game to be everything to everyone, makes no sense financially even if it were possible (which its not)
OP is basically describing a virutal world as envisioned in the Sci-Fi show Caprica, and we're hundreds of years away from technology of that sorts. (if ever)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
oh, obviously.
I think "this" is one of the de facto problems with mmo's. There are people who believe that an mmo should be "x". Maybe even from their own experience.
But now there are all sorts of people who play these things. Different tases, different tolerances.
And your statement goes back to the "sandbox vs themepark" argument. There are posts upon posts in thread upon thread on that topic alone.
The de facto problem with mmo's is that they just can't be all things to all people. And yet they clearly seem to try to get as many people as they possibly can. Part of that is probably because they want to recoup costs and actuall stay in business. But it also creates issues becaues the more people you get the more they are going to want these games to go in other directions. - J
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Agreed, All devs want to make the next Wow and they seems to think that originality is not the way to sell games.
You really can't make all people happy and I rather play a game that make some people happy then a game that is "meh" to all players.
Making the game so easy that anyone who are able to read a little bit can play it is also a mistake, if I don't feel challenged I will quit eventually or fast depending on the game.
Ignorance is a bliss.
That's why forums users know the best how to make a successful MMO. Stupid real developers, it is so easy and obvious!
A wild west MMO done right would be my dream come true. I would never quit.
It's a little odd hearing a sandbox called "100% thrill". My experience with them has involved AFK-able gathering, AFK-able crafting, challengeless AFK-able PVE, and progression requiring either an ultra-repetitive grind (DF) or no purpose at all to my participation (EVE).
Sort of the exact opposite of thrill. :X
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I see calls for this sort of thing a lot.
Let's start with nothing, and then build it! Cool!
What happens when it's built?
Let's settle the Wild West!
What happens when it's settled?
You start over and the West gets wild again? Or the game is just boring because the West isn't Wild anymore?
It's always Wild? Then why am I wasting my time trying to settle it?
the problem with mmo's is.... us.
I would love to be any one of those things in a virtual world.
That would be a perfect game
I think you're looking for a more social-based real-life-simulation MMO, which would be similar in concept and design to Second Life. However, unlike in Second Life, I think that if anyone's to pull out such freedom, it needs much firmer restraints that don't take away from the game as a whole. I could look to Gaia as another example, but it's not (in my opinion) an MMO, and has a specific audience (in this case, kids). Both have their own problems that are moderate to fairly severe.
The thing is, there's just too much possibilities if developers try opening that void that there will be too much work at hand. We shouldn't be looking to an MMO that's great on paper and impossible to execute in reality. "Player-driven" has always been a pet peeve of mines, because I solely believe that no "player-driven" content will ever range on success without major mishaps that need to be bailed out by other parties.
AKA no such thing as a perfect game, unless you count reality as a game.
Forums: The best real-time interactive MMORPG you'll ever be in.
Its a problem with social networking in general.... same reason there are not multiple Facebooks. People want to go where their friends are. To have a mass exodus from a game so big will take something special, something new and totally original...on top of that MMOs are the most difficult and expensive games to make. Companies would rather make an easy sure buck off recycled engines then risk years of time and money to maybe have a chance of return.
The question is, for how long? Would you play for a year as a office clerk or undertaker? How long before being a virtual saloon owner became mundane?
Gonn go to the saloon to see whats going on...shit griefer in the saloon ...dead. Gonna go farm some hides to sell to the leatherworker...shit griefer outside of town ...dead. Eff this ...become griefer or leave for game that isint boring.
Not to be rude but this has been talked to death already.
People are not interested in playing a true to life game where you have real jobs. Games are meant to be a distraction to real life not re-enacting it all over again regardless of what setting be it the wild west or on some distant planet in the game universe.
I would really like a sandbox game myself. Take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQbSASvxTo4
The interesting bit is at the 2.35 mark.
I'm not a big fan of lego but I see some real possibilities in this on a much larger scale. I could see this being used in other games where you can create your own npc and give him some scripted behavior or build your own dungeon/world for others to run through. The possibilities are endless. All without you having to know how to program your own game.
Just give us the tools.
The problem with mmos is mmo gamers, there stupider, louder and more irrational than any other gamer, and they want every game to be different from the last, but if its different then they bash it and run back to play the game they were just bitching they didnt want the new game to be like at all.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Taking a quick look over all the current AAA mmo titles and the ones set to come out I'd say he was pretty much correct.
The vast majority of todays mmo gamers want instant gratification, simplicity (to the point of stupidity) and the ability to charge things to their (parents) credit cards instead of actually trying to loot it in the game itself.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I think the games in themselves creates the players, not the other way around. Dungeon finders, instances and little reward for working together is the problem.
As for dumb, far from all MMO players are dumb but anyone can easily play a MMO and that of course add some people that never would have played games like EQ and Meridian, they wouldn't past level 10 in them. Current quest system tells people exactly what to do and that doesn't help either, many players watch TV while they play, something few would do 10 years ago.
So I think the games is responsible for the people who plays them. It will be interesting to see what GW2s group dynamics and dynamic quests will add to this.
Honestly do I want both new and old stuff, it is the current that is my problem. There are many things I miss from the good old days but many others I can't understand why they still keep, like tanking to mention one thing.