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General: GDCO Thoughts
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In his latest Free Zone column, MMORPG.com's Richard Aihoshi talks about this year's Austin Game Developer's Conference. While he did not have the opportunity to attend, Richard did pick up some tidbits of information and intriguing rumors about his favorite topic, free-to-play games. Check out Richard's thoughts and impressions of Austin and then let us know what you think!
Luckily, I do get some informal feedback in the course of my normal communication with various parties. When I know someone was there, it's only natural to ask "How was Austin this year?" Many replies are polite and not really very enlightening, but some contain information and opinions that help me to get at least a little bit of a feel for how the show went.
Read more of Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone.
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Comments
I have mentioned this in another thread, but it is relevant here, so I will repeat it.
People do not understand WHY F2P or P2P are the right choice for a publisher. To the customer it seems like publishers are just choosing at random, and hoping that they get it right. There is more to it than that, and I will try to explain.
Publishers are out to make money. Sure they want to have a great game, and have lots of people happy with their service... but only because this is a good way to make money. Publishers that make lots of money, can produce lots of games. Publishers that do not make enough, go under, and cease to publish. It is a very Darwinian world for Publishers, with only the strongest (those with the most money) surviving.
P2P is a great way to maximize returns in a slow market. When there is little competition, you can maximize your returns by building hype for a (unseen) product via marketting. Then you charge for it up front, and monetize as quickly as possible. Your product does not need to have a long term income strategy, if you can make your money back quickly (3 months or less).
The P2P strategy has been very clear in the western market. Look at games like AOC, WAR, AION. They all had huge hype, big sales, then a huge dropoff as the game didnt deliver the expectations. They all used P2P as effectively as possible, to maximize the returns.
F2P is a greate way to maximize returns in a fast market. When there is a lot of competition, you have to convince customers to stay in your game. The best way to do this, is to get them in as easily as possible, and let them become committed via gameplay. In a competitive market, you have to UNDERSELL the game, so that players will stay long enough for you to make money. Your product can not have a short term income strategy, as you have to keep them for the long run (months/years).
The F2P strategy is becoming more common in the western market. This is especially obvious for games that are converting from P2P, to F2P. They essetially get the best of both worlds. They launch with all the hype needed to make money in P2P... but after a short time, it becomes clear that they do not match the hype. They then go into a 'fix' mode, where they add all the features that were originally promised, and make the game what needs to be to keep players. It is then re-launched as F2P, in order to get as many players back into the game as possible, so that they can start reaping the long term benefits as well.
The changes in the market are here because publishers are trying to get the most money that they can in a competitive market. They will release titles that allow for lock in and lifetime subs as P2P. If they do not feel that they can get enough cash upfront for this, they will go with a F2P launch, and start selling the game based on its merits, rather than the hype, in an effort to make more over time. Either way, the Publisher will try to maximize its returns, so that they can survive and grow in this more competitive market.
Again Richard you lump the Turbine model with the ridiculous Asian model when it comes to the f2p market. The prior post also ignores this difference making it a hollow discourse on the economics of this segment.
There is a huge difference, the Turbine model is not pay to win! Big difference and Turbine does not bilk you thousands to make your character viable. So it makes difference which models you are talking about when it comes to the f2p market.
Until you recognize this difference your columns will continue to be gobbledygook.
Oh really know,I havnt had to spend a dime on any f2p game that I have played to experience any of the content in said game except LOTRO.And you cant compare the pvp experience because the f2p LOTRO there is none you have to be a p2p'er to do pvp there, and pvp is the only reason you would need to buy anything from cash shop to be viable.Also several of the f2p games that I have played let you buy cash shop items from other players with in-game gold.
Well there's no real PVP in the Turbine games.
You can buy permenant stat increases, access to better traits, and more points, even gear at times.
It is pay to win, but only against AI. So there's a difference.
Talk of an F2P conference brought me to remember an idea I've tossed around for awhile, albeit incapable of transforming into reality. Fundamentally, it'd be a rating system for F2P games, but rather than summarize the moral content of a particular video game, it'd summarize the amount of cash one would need to pump into their item store. To break it down further, it could even have sub ratings for players who are casual and those who are more hardcore, because many of these F2P titles ramp up the cost to remain competitive at higher levels, or throw in "necessities" that may otherwise go unnoticed until it's too late (like Allods, needing to buy potions to correct the damage nerf after level 20, or whatever it is).
If I knew going into one of these games that I would be paying, at the very most, as much as a subscription MMO, I think I'd be far more willing to try titles in the F2P genre. Especially when considering that there would be some anonymous entity, whoever or whatever it may be, looking over these F2P titles to let us know which of them are trying to rip us off, and which of them are trying to provide real games at fair prices (or prices we're used to paying), because that's really what it's about: accountability.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Turbine games aren't pay to win? Stat Tomes, anyone?
Still, I don't know what Turbine really is doing with LOTRO. Since they don't seem to be interested in releasing new content at anything but a snail's pace (like it has since Moria), the game isn't going to be helped too much by F2P. People will play, get sick of there being nothing to do but grind, grind, grind (be it for deeds or reputation or LIs) and quit.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Actually they have been releasing new content as least once sometimes twice a year whether through content patches and sometimes paid expansions. Mirkwood was released not to long after Moria and the Devs said in there bi-monthly dev chat with the community that Isengard is going to be opened up next year....so uhm...whats this about not releasing new content??
LOTRO is NOT pay to win. I know that you say "Turbine games", but I wanted to clarify that LOTRO, specifically, is not. I don't know that much about DDO to say otherwise. In LOTRO, Turbine has been very careful about what character-enhancing items they sell.
I didn't want people to be turned off trying LOTRO from this comment which is what drives my response. I've been playing it consistently since Alpha testing and it is as great a game as it has ever been, and I think the experience has actually *improved* since F2P.
First, 40 points in a stat doesn't make a character 'win' when there's a 650 stat cap.
Second, let's see what has been done since launch in the last 3 years: Evendim, Forochel, Enedwaith, Eastern Misty Mountains, Moria, Lothlorien and Mirkwood. That's more than 2 new areas a year. I just wanted to enumerate exactly how much has been added to the game.
LoTRO was mediocrely ok at best. Making it F2p only filled the servers a litte. The game was fun for a little while till you get bored being only on the "good " side and only able to play as an Orc or evil doer for PvP purposes. Now having to buy all the quests in alot of the zones or otherwise just grind for lvls is totally lame. And as dated as the grafix are one would think that there would be no lag. Now that its F2P the lag is even worse. Personally I think that the 2 Turbine games and EQ2 are the worst F2P games out there. And I really dont mind having items in the cash shop that are so called "pay 2 win". Most thing like that are simple xp boosters or something similar to it that I have seen. Imo the best F2P out there is 9dragons even after the switch from Acclaim to GF and losing all our OG toons maybee forever. And for the same price as the P2P MMOs about $15 you can get the premium that has alot of cool perks like double XP for 30 days a boost in stats ans other limited buffs. Im a huge Kung Fu fanboi and 9Dragons is the only MMO that feels like your acually becomming a Kung Fu warrior. World of Kung Fu has no Kung Fu and the only thing cool about it is you can create you own martial arts moves but they all pretty much look all the same. 9Dragons the Kung Fu moves and techniques look and feel more like the old movies from the 70s and 80s ( Or Crouching Tiger hidden Dragon ish). Anyway F2P or P2P if the game is good money will be spent to play it in some way or another.
love the pipe smoking bit about Lotro, but the character controls and movement put me off it.
It seems by now, SOMEBODY in the MMO space should have matched the awesome combat system of the old Blade of Darkness...
But nope...
AoC kinda tried, but didn't quite make it...
If the game is fun, I could care less about F2P or P2P, as long as they don't get ridiculous about it.
Personally I am already bored to death with LoTro and on to the next thing. Cancelling my sub today.
Yeah, well you have never taken your avatar to high levels in any of the f2p either then. Playing early to mid levels does not count. Yes there are players that have done that without spending a dime, but they are very few and far between and basically have no life beyond gaming. Once you start buying in these games it is hard to stop and once enough people achieve top level they up to keep you grinding which is horrendous without significant item shop purchases.
Turbine does none of that, huge difference.
There is no gear on Turbine's item shop that affects gameplay! Their item shop is very reasonable also. Try Perfect World or Runes of Magic where you can spend $50 on a mount and then more to make it faster. You can also earn all those points internally in Turbine's game, while in the other f2p, you can certainly buy it, but it won't be cheap, the developers make sure that in game currency is very hard to accumulate. Again, huge difference.
Sigh ! Another thread hijacked.
It will be interesting to see what the future holds for FTP and a major title going with a hybrid right out of the gate will open some eyes.
Hmmm, where IS that crystal ball when its needed!
I would say LotRO is the wrong game for you.
You are a PvP gamer - and LotRO isn't a PvP game.
So be happy with 9Dragons. I assume only very very few LotRO players would install and play a game like 9Dragons.
There is no gear yet. However we have mounts, rep mounts, riding skills. All that could be found in game but given to you early on for a few bucks more. The mounts are more fluff however being able to get a rep horse without the faction is a problem.
Then you have stat tomes that might or might not drop in game. Then you have certain foods and potions that can not be found in game that you can purchase. The stat tomes, food and potions do affect game play.
It is a matter of time before they add gear and weapons. They are still testing out the store to see what folks will and will not buy, and depending on that will determine what gets added more.
They way I see it this is the current trend. Look at cryptic they are not free to play and look at the store they have. I believe were going to see a lot more of this store stuff with free to play/sub hybrids.
It is Turbine's stance that LOTRO will *NOT* be pay-to-win. Are some character enhancements available? Sure. But these are extremely minor enhancements and have very temporary effects. This is like saying that pre-ordering their content has been play-to-win because you get free mounts or a cloak and pocket item. It wasn't true then, it isn't true now and it will not be true in the future. Why do I know it won't be true in the future? Because there is such a minority that is interested in paying money to win, but a great number who would despise it.
In response to the will *not* be pay-to-win. There has already been a dead horse killed over this in the lotro forums. There are a lot of folks who think the stat tomes are pay-to-win along with the ability to buy a reputation horse without having the reputation needed to ride it at level 5.
I think that line has already been crossed. There has been discussion about the level 40 stat tome that showed up in a sale in the store the other day.
The pay-to-win discussion gets huge, then is usually locked and let fall down several pages until a new one shows up. I think a lot of the vets despise it like me, and a lot of the new kids on the block are like yippeee!!!. There is more new blood flowing nowdays at turbine than the old blood.
The problem is how many will pay to win vs how many will not. That is why I say they are still testing the store. They put something in and it goes how wile they will put something else like it in. I
There are those who have complained about the food and potion items saying that allows some folks to solo instances, others are worried that they will start to generate content that will require a purchase of that food in order to beet the instance.
So who knows its a work in progress at this point.
I've been playing LOTRO since friends and family alpha. I'm also a lifetime subscriber. I have the accolades to talk knowledgeably about the game and its evolution to F2P and the changes it has brought about.
Most of the buffs provided in the store are items that you could normally buy with destiny points.
The food you can get through the store is outdone by tier 3 food you can begin using at level 20.
The curative potions you can get, you can just buy from NPC vendors. (These are trumped by salves since you can't use the store-bought curative potions on other players.)
The potions which restore morale and power are completely unique from the potions crafted and found in game and offer only a very small bonus with a significant cooldown.
The stat tomes offer a great boost in the beginning when you're developing your character and doing a lot of soloing, but by end game, these tomes only offer a 6% bonus towards your max stats.
All of these things help a little bit, but you're still not going to come even close to what you can get by actually playing the game and dealing in the game.
NOTHING in the store allows anyone to solo an instance they otherwise couldn't. It helps to a very miniscule degree. To further prove my point, i've put a lot of money into my new guardian to see what money will get you, and it's not much. The most effective money spent was to get my Virtues to rank 8, and like I said before, this will even itself out in the end-game since I would have rank 10's on them all anyway.
Regarding getting a rep mount (I guess you're talking about the goat), did you realize that it has less than half the health of a standard goat? (60 vs 150) There's still a very good reason to grind the rep to get a proper rep goat.
Now stack all of this evidence with the fact that you can get Turbine Points for FREE just by playing the game normally, it's blatantly clear when looking with both eyes open that there is nothing even close to pay-to-win in the store.