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IGN interviews Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
-KitFox-
Member Posts: 26
Well, as this is the brain child of EQ's original creators Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, I thought some of you old die hards and veterans may enjoy taking a peep over at the interview - mind you, its pretty basic and skims the surface of what the game is about, If you really want to learn more about the game I advise you to check out the very detailed FAQ and sign - up for the forums. The game is still in alpha, so as many of you beta testers know much will change graphically etc...
and for the interview.. http://pc.ign.com/articles/608/608033p1.html : the screenshot in particular that fascinated me, was this one http://pc.ign.com/articles/608/608033p1.html - other then the seemingly "real" situational posistioning within the realm of combat seen here, take a glance at the text box..targetted hits! Likely this will translate to how much damage is dealt depending on where you are hit and the severity of your wounds, and could this also mean that PCs can target specific NPC body parts? Interesting mechanic 
Cheers
"when life knocks you to your knees...well, thats the best posistion to pray in, isn't it ?"
Comments
They said it is "group oriented" game.
Another lame design team.
Microsoft has not released any good software entertainment products outside of Flight Simulator. I thought Vanguard would be it, but I guess not.
Ah..yes your right, they should cater to the solo gamer's needs and make group orientated activities as with little presensce as possible. Flawless idea!
[/sarcasm off]
Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game
There is the whole part of a game being mulitplayer - I dont know about you, but one of the components of any MMO that either makes or breaks the game for me, is definitly the community. It can make the experience unforgetable and always exciting, or dry and irritable..I play the games I do, because I can get my fantasy fix with other gamers. If i wanted some solo fanatsy id plug in Final Fantasy 7...
They are targeting a niche group of gamers, instead of trying to cater to a broader sense of consumers (like many second generation games did); so instead of trying to implement components for all sorts of games that might make the game seem somewhat flat or static to jaded players..they are basing their design around a certain TYPE of gamer. Niche games is what is needed to save this genre from falling into a pit of unrecycled mechanics and dry overall mechanics/gameplay, as well as game longitivity IMO.
Sigil Games is NOT Microsoft, and if you under that conception then I suggest heading over to the official vanguard site @ www.vanguardsoh.com and reading the FAQ and signing up for the forums; your disillusioning yourself on what could be a wonderful experience, if you think this game is another slap-shit game by Microsoft, or an EverQuest 2 clone. The original game desingers of EQ may be working on this, but, if they were innovative and ground breaking enough to event this esteemed genre for us and define it for what it is today, then I think they can deliver on making another truely wonderful game to do something along the same lines, given that they have now the experience of said game (EQ) under their belt and the failures/plus sides of all the 2nd generation MMOGS out right now.
Sigil is all about mantaining (and often displaying) their integrity, and honesty concerning the market and the game they are developing - check out the latest interview concerning Vanguard: Saga of Heroes GUcomics.com - http://forums.gucomics.com/viewtopic.php?t=7035
"when life knocks you to your knees...well, thats the best posistion to pray in, isn't it ?"
There are Billions of Solo friendly games out there, why would you want Vanguard to be Solo too?
WoW is a solo Heaven, it is an awesome game for casual and solo gamers.
I am an hardcore Roleplayer, but I enjoy play WoW from time to time, that s how good it is.
If I was a solo player, I would not play anything else but WoW.
Vanguard is aimed to a different market though.
Vanguard is the real successor of the original Everquest, and it will cater for the 500.000 Everquest subscribers that will look to an alternative for the ageing EQ, plus it will attract lots of disenchanted EQ2 players, disappointed by the lack of challenge and the pure blandness of the game (partly because Soe compromised the quality of the game just to make soloers happy).
So there is a market for this game, even if it doesn't compromise its standards in order to appeal to the masses, this game will have lots of followers.
Vanguard is designed to appeal the core MMORPGs market, it will be challenging and definetly not for casual or solo players, so if you don't like it, there are lots of other games to choose from.
Also I want to reassure you about Microsoft.
Microsoft has been "roasted" already in the official forum. They ve been warned not to mess with the quality of the product by making it too commercial.
Microsoft responed categorically that they will never interfere with Sigil decisions, and they are there only to support Brad and Co.
Microsoft is well aware of the risk of interfering with the game development, and i think they got the point.
Having said that, I have to say that the Microsoft staff is a great bunch of people, they partecipate to forum discussions, and they are friendly and down to earth people, in particular Taranis (AKA Jon Grande)
In fact I invite you to visit the official Forum, you will be amazed of the number of post Microsoft and Sigil staff post every day, sometimes useful and informative sometimes plain silly.
In fact they are PART of the community and that s what make me positive about this game, the devs listen and discuss issues and they are willing to take them on board.
There is a good deal of communication going on between players and developers, and that s how it should be in every MMOs, except usually it is not.
So it is not just the quality of the game, but also the quality of the Dev Team that make this game great, and that s why I think Vanguard will be the next big thing after Everquest.
Everyone is invited on board
Too much hype and not enough concrete information.
It is not my job to give detailed information about the game.
I would like people to make their own mind about the game, I don't want people to be influenced negatively or positively by me.
I can only give my opinion, but that s subjective.
For an objective knowledge of the game you should use the official channels.
There is a website and forum with FaQs for that, if you are interested go and have a look.
I thought that for a while too, but I think I prefer it this way - that way when I login for the first time, it will be a relativly thrilling and unknown experience with so many things for me to fiqure out. They have released enough information to go by...races and such, and will do more with E3 clearly - but really, how does a MMMORPG player expect to even partially recreate that virgin feel of your first MMO when the game is pre-handed to you on a silver platter by the design team so that if you did your research you knew how to play the game from A - Z without even having ever logged in (EQ2). This way, without releasing alot of information, it will aslo detract from the whole "disillusionion" where we are lead to believe one thing about a mechanic and to only have it be another and be dissapointed - it also allows the creation team to be more flexible with the design, making more extensive changes, so really what we dont know..the better.
"when life knocks you to your knees...well, thats the best posistion to pray in, isn't it ?"
I thought that for a while too, but I think I prefer it this way - that way when I login for the first time, it will be a relativly thrilling and unknown experience with so many things for me to fiqure out. They have released enough information to go by...races and such, and will do more with E3 clearly - but really, how does a MMMORPG player expect to even partially recreate that virgin feel of your first MMO when the game is pre-handed to you on a silver platter by the design team so that if you did your research you knew how to play the game from A - Z without even having ever logged in (EQ2). This way, without releasing alot of information, it will aslo detract from the whole "disillusionion" where we are lead to believe one thing about a mechanic and to only have it be another and be dissapointed - it also allows the creation team to be more flexible with the design, making more extensive changes, so really what we dont know..the better.
I have a much better idea for you: learn absolutely nothing about the game at all.
If you want to recreate the "newbie" feel to a gaming experience (which is impossible, incidentally, but that's a different philosophical discussion) then it's best you know next to nothing about it. In that way you will carry into it zero preconceived notions about what to expect, which will greatly expand your sense of wonder about what is going on.
When I approach a new MMOG what I specifically want to do is to begin the game with as little information in advance as possible. Part of the way I rate the game's effectiveness is how it presents the player with an entrance to the game and carries forward its continuity. A well designed game will start you off with either a good tutorial, good information, or such a simple set of choices that it's nearly impossible to not know what to do. From that point forward, the clueless should be guided and the veterans should be allowed to roam free. The ability of the game to accomodate both ends of the spectrum is a large measure of its potential success.
Hence, I don't want to know much about a new MMOG at all. I want to know what genre it is, whether it is PvP or PvE or a mix, whether it is meant to be solo-friend or not, and whether I can run it on my rig. Beyond that, I want to experience everything else by playing the game. I don't mind reading tons of research materials outside the game for strategy, character build templates, etc...but I always do that after I've started playing.
I do this primarily to make sure I do not build up unrealistic expectations. I've been there and done that far too many times, where proposed features and the musings and wishes of developers become fixtures in my mind and when they don't pan out (and there are always plenty of them that do not) I become disappointed. Sadly, that disappointment is entirely my own creation, and if it were not for that disappointment I would have had a better experience in the game. Thus, why put myself through that ridiculous cycle by hyping up my expectations of things that cannot be proven to exist and cannot be directly experienced by myself or someone I trust?
Thus, hype.
I like grouping. I don't have anything against forced grouping. What I hate is forced multi-grouping (aka raiding).
Vanguard, like EQ, is going to be based around two basic goals for the players. Gaining levels and getting equipment upgrades. And like EQ, the best equipment will only be attainable through raiding. And from what I've read about the game it sounds like raiding in Vanguard will be a lot like raiding in EQ.
Now for those of you who didn't play EQ let me give you a little hint of what that type of raiding game is like. First of all you will need to be in a big guild. Small guilds tend to die out in that environment so you will most likely have to join one of the monster zerg guilds. Small guilds tend to die because people get impatient to start harvesting all that phat lewt and you can't get your higher level guys to stay long enough for your lower level guys to catch up. So small guilds break up and get absorbed into various bigger guilds.
Players become absolutely dependant on their raiding guild. If you can't go on raids you won't be able to accomplish ANYTHING. This gives guild leaders a lot of power and tends to drive them into an ego inflated mentality. I've seen people put up with a lot of crap from a power tripping guild leader just because they knew that if they were kicked out of the guild they wouldn't have access to equipment upgrades anymore.
So if you want to play Vanguard you should start preparing yourself to be an obsequios yes-man in a uber guild.
Most raiding guilds will also have time commitmant requirements. You will probably have to attend a certain number of raids each month or you won't be allowed to roll on any of that phat lewt. I don't fault the guilds for doing it that way. I'm just telling you what to expect. So you can probably plan on dedicating all of your weekends to raiding if you want to play Vanguard.
EQ style raids tend to be excrutiatingly long and boring. I know of some EQ raids that went on for three days in real time (and I'm not kidding). But that's the extreme. They probably average out to about eight or ten hours of real time. That's from when people start gathering for the raid to the time when it breaks up and people start logging off. So if you want to play Vanguard you should expect a lot ten hour raiding sessions and long sleepless nights.
And remember, if you don't go on the raids regularly you won't be allowed to roll on any of the phat lewtz.
If you don't go on raids you will reach a point at which you won't be able to upgrade your equipment any more. You won't be able to do any of your major quests. You won't be able to get your top line of spells. You won't be able to do much of anything.
You will still be able to get experience and gain levels. But you will be a gimp compared to the people running around in raid equipment. You will tend to get passed over for spots in experience groups in favor of guys with better equipment. So if you don't like raiding you should expect to spend a lot of time LFG.
Of course you could try to solo if you can't find a group. But what will inevitably happen in Vanguard is that as more and better uber raid equipment is added to the game the devs will be forced to increase the power of NPC's to compensate. And if you don't have access to the uber raid equipment...well, you figure it out.
Vanguard is going to be all about raiding. Everything will revolve around raiding. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking otherwise. All of the best equipment, spells, quest pieces, and crafting materials will be attainable only through raiding.
So if you like EQ style raiding then Vangaurd is definately the game for you. But if you don't like the sound of what I just described I would advise you to stay the hell away from that game or you will end up feeling bitter and angry like me. And that just ain't worth it.
Freelancer.
Freelancer.
ditto
Wu name dizirgee->Tough Destroyer
I`m Lawful Good Human Fighter Paladin
and you?
God I miss a good raiding game. Most fun I ever had in any MMORPG time was raiding NToV in EQ. All these games that want to take out what was bad in EQ end up taking out all the things that made people play it for so long, and they end up for a game that is really fun for a few months instead of years.
Freelancer.
Age of Empires series
XBL: pykachu10 | TS: dstarsboy | Xfire: pykachu
Neanderthal, your analisys of Everquest is pretty spot on.
I personally enjoyed Everquest and I am sure the other 500.000 subscribers enjoyed it too.
And if Everquest is such a milestone, raiding is one of the reason (whether people like it or not).
Vanguard, though, will not be a carbon copy of Everquest, it will take inspiration from it.
Not only Vanguard will take things that worked in Everquest but also it will borrow ideas that worked in other games too.
Vanguard won't be an original game, if you are looking for innovation, than look somewhere else.
Vanguard will implement what worked in other games in particular from Everquest.
Raiding is one of the things that worked better in Everquest, and in Vanguard Raiding will be important too, but it won't be such a full time job like in Everquest, and it won't be the main element of the game.
WoW is not that great of a game, sorry.
Something about hours of running around doing quests to level and be able to survive in new zones is not my idea of fun.
I would like being level 50 and do PvP, but with the whole class thing I feel so limited.
I would like to see a soloable game without a level cap or classes. If the game was good quality that is.
And I dont think WoW quests were fun in beta. Run for 45 minutes along that road, dodge monsters that will rip your head off in less then 2 seconds, give the note to Ms. Piebaker all while a giant hog nips on your behind. Oh and Ms. Piebaker is immune to the hundreds of monsters surrounding her for some reason. Maybe they all like her because she gives them pie.
I just think these games are lame.
Vanguard coming from Microsoft Studios I hoped would be a little more realistic, realistic as in being able to solo if you wanted. And to be of high quality as far as story and design. But I guess not. Classes are lame. Grouping is lame. Questing is lame. At least Questing that doesnt involve working for the end game (like in mario brothers the whole point of the game is to rescue the princess). If Vanguard had a quest system that was all tied into the "goal of the game" then that would be better. I have a feeling they wont because they apparently do not know how a proper MMORPG is supposed to be designed, as evidenced in their interview.
I dont like dark elf's. Elf's are supposed to be good, not evil. Well they are actually supposed to not be friends with anyone. They are neither good nor evil. So what is the deal with dark elf's recently?
Is Vanguard copying Lineage and Everquest?
Rant off, I am not impressed with this game and I have scratched it off my list.
Having both a great solo and a great grouping game would be requiring just a little work...
Althought I am more a grouper then a soloer when playing MMORPG, having great solo would be an incredible edge, only if to make sure I dont log and I remain LFG!
Making good solo is a LOT more a priority then raiding since hardcores raiders are not even 5% of the player base. But solo is not part of any plans at Vanguard, and trying to convince them is doomed, so I honestly hope for them the grouping will be great, otherwise they will just realize they lack players.
No class and no limit of earnable stuff...that is a nice solo start! Easy to build a nice grouping system BESIDE it, a little trivially entertwined with the solo, not to much...and put a nice level cap where everyone is of say level on every grouping zone, so no uber farmer come destroy an old zone...
I
R1tual ideas however, I would find it extremely easy to be happy in such a system. Yet, pretty easy to developp a side grouping system as well...where skills is used during solo, and class during groups...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
ya i agree with the canadian.
that was DAOC's bad point at level 50 u could do absoltely nothing on your own and i mean absoltely nothing.
and im mad at the original creators of everquest for not speaking out against SOE's auction site decision. so i dont think i will care too much about the game.
now imperator thats looking awful nice.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
That is spot on description of Vanguard. I was hoping Sigil would do something innovative. For some reason, I always thought Vanguard would be the best of EQ, UO, but in a more innovative way. The more I have thought about it though, innovative isn't necessarily a good thing, but it could be. How many major MMOs coming out are really doing something innovative? They're just rehashing on ideas that worked and/or revisualizing current features. I do hope Sigil realizes its vision though because there really hasn't been a true successor to EQ. If Sigil does just what it wants to, I think then we will begin to see the next generation of MMOs besides the "standard", because no one has really out done the EQ model yet. Also, I think its great that Sigil has recently begun to accurately paint their game as nothing more than a successor to the principles and fundamentals that built EQ. I was really put off by SOEs portrayal of EQ2 as the next iteration of MMOs because quite frankly, it doesn't even live up to the original EQ. I am very excited to see how Vanguard turns out because I'm ready to be immersed and challenged again.
FAQs FTW
4.15 Will grouping be forced in Vanguard or will I be able to Solo?
Yes, you will be able to solo. You will be able to solo more effectively in 'casual' areas than in group and raid areas. You will likely have difficulty soloing in group areas and extreme difficulty in raid areas (e.g. probably isn't going to happen). Will you be happy with the rate of advancement and downtime associated with soloing as opposed to teaming up with a few other players, especially of classes that compliment the one you've chosen? I don't know -- those are different lines for different people. Some of you may enjoy soloing in Vanguard, and some of you may find it too tedious or slow or not rewarding enough... Are we designing Vanguard as a solo-oriented game? No. The focus is on grouping. Does that mean we hate soloing and want to make it impossible? No, certainly not, but it will take a 'second seat' so to speak...
You will always be more efficient and encouraged to group, even in casual areas, although you won't need a large group. The casual areas are geared towards small groups and also designed such that one can achieve advancement in shorter contiguous chunks of gameplay, so these areas should be attractive not only to the more casual gamer, but even the hard core raid gamer who just has an hour or so to log on and wants to be able to move his character forward in some way
I hesitate to make comparisons to other games, but I suppose I'd say, though while certainly not apples to apples, Vanguard 'soloing' will be much more akin to EQ 1 soloing than WoW soloing -- WoW is much more of a casual, solo oriented, quick leveling game than Vanguard is being designed to be, and this is on purpose of course. While we respect and enjoy WoW, 1. Vanguard is the type of game we truly love to play more ourselves and for a longer period of time, and 2. it wouldn't make sense to just make another WoW or EQ 2 or whatever we need to differentiate ourselves, especially as the gamespace both grows and becomes more crowded with options.
We're trying to bring back that magic of early EQ 1 yet simultaneously take this genre into the next generation and offer a lot of new ideas and functionality and differing types of gameplay that will hopefully appeal to old school MUD and EQ 1 players as well as newer MMOG converts as well as core gamers who've not yet found an MMOG that's had the type of gameplay they truly enjoy.
That's pretty much all I can say at this point. Once we are into beta and you guys are able to play yourselves, you can each make your own judgment call on the topic of 'is Vanguard soloable or not?', not to mention 'do I enjoy Vanguard at all?', and each of you will have your own opinion and will be able to make your choice as to whether Vanguard will be your future home or not (of course, we certainly hope the vast majority of you choose to make Vanguard your new home for months and even years to come). But we also know that we can't (nor I think can anyone) make a game that is all things for all people.
Everquest is probably the most raid oriented game out in the US right now. It has had more than 250,000 subscribers for about five years now, and it has been running between 400,000 and 500,000 for about four years (and is still up there now). Now, I think EQ went over the top with the tedious raiding and flagging that was PoP (although SoL was the beginning of the end in tedious raiding), and that was after Brad and others had left the company. Yet it is still doing well. I don't think the the most successful MMORPG in the US (WoW is the first US game to surpass EQ, but it's longevity remains to be seen) is a minority of the player base. Heck, many of the disgruntled players going through game after game are exEQ players searching for the lost glory days of EQ. People may like to solo, and they may think soloing is the best thing in the world, but people chew up solo games in no time and all and spit them out. Grouping and making friends is what gives a game long life, and MMORPGs make money by keeping subscribers, not by just selling boxes.
Yes FAQ FTW.
Reaffirms the point that you wont be able to be as good as someone who groups, which is faggish.
Brucle Lee could beat the hell out of 5 people at once. Typical MMORPG character needs a group of 5 to take out one guy because of all the class dependancies. One to hold him down, An other one to punch him repeatedly in the face, another guy to heal the stamina or the people holding and beating, and one more guy to nuke from distance.
Its so lame. I dont want to join the geek squad and go around with my shining armor throwing AOE spells for 3 hours because that is my role.
I want to come up on geek groupers and considering how much I accomplished in the game as far as my skills and abilities, beat the hell out of them. All while earning points and gaining levels and accomplishing storyline or 'questing' to try and pursue the storyline or do something epic.
THat is my idea of a true simulated fantasy world.
IM all for people specializing in like magic or swords, but even Gandalf in Lord of the Rings could throw down with a sword or Staff if he wanted. He might not have been as good as the other dood's but he could at least do it.
In these lame MMO's you cant even wear armor or use swords or crossbows if you are a wizard.
It is sad how low all of your standards are.
If you want to solo, play a solo game or one of the many solo friendly MMORPGs that bore most people to death after only a few months (or less).
What is stupid is a game where everyone can solo everything and no one ever needs to group (the boredom that was SWG before their combat revamp). If Bruce Lee could kick the crap out of something, shouldn't five Bruce Lees be able to kick the crap out of something five times as tough? And shouldn't that something five times as tough have a bigger reward than something a single person could beat?
MMORPGs rely on long term subscribers. People who have lots of friends in a game will subscribe longer, and if grouping has a higher reward than soloing, that game will be more successful in the long term. Solo oriented games will always have a higher turnover than group oriented games.
There was only one Bruce Lee. thats the point.
I am second to no man.
And if there was more then one Bruce Lee, then he wouldnt of been so good, because there would of been other people who could of matched his skills.
If you want to be the only hero in a game, then you will pretty much be stuck playing a single player game. Even in the solo centric MMORPGs, you may not need a group to kill, but there are thousands of others who can kill things just as well as you can (if not better).
The only reason Bruce Lee existed was because he lived in a properly simulated environment.
Yes it is advantageous to work in a group.
In his world he had the oppurtunity to be the best as an individual. He worked hard, excelled, and had skills. In Brucle Lee World he was the solo elitest. He was more elite then samurai masters and the samurai pupils. He took then on. He had no interdependancy with the Ninja to do so, he didnt rely on Buddhists. He kicked butt on his own.
Only Eve Online gives you the oppurtunity to be 'jack of all trades'. But Eve is not exactly the same genre as Vanguard.
That is why I think Vanguard should be the Eve Online of the Fantasy RPG games.
Well, let me derail what our esteemed posters have said:
1. Vanguard will be solo capable, however, the developers feel a main reason why alot of 2nd gen MMO's failed was because they tried to appeal to the entire market, and in doing so had to water down certain aspects of the game to make it more widespread user-friendly. Vanguard IS a niche game, that is, it's designed to target a group and type of gamers and appeal to them directly ..this will allow me to to develop the game extensivly towards this group more then any recent MMO's have.
2. Read the oodles of Vanguard lore that has been released, the world of Telon is going to be the biggest (and it's been quoted by the CEO of the company) world (and seamless! meaning...what you see, you can get too, cool huh?) yet seen in any MMORPG. We are talking about the original desingers of eq here, and if you are at all familiar even remotly with the awsome lore in the original and Verant Interactive's two expanisons (Scars of Velious & Ruins of Kunark) you KNOW, even if you havent read the offical Vanguard lore, that this team will deliver another awsome immersive game.
3. Your talking about the original creators of EQ, hello, you know, the first game of the genre? And you say they don't know how to make a game? especially after all the years of experience and watching the success/failures of OTHER mmorpgs? Your a fool.
Oh boy..where have you been?
1.Read the forums at Vanguard, the devs have been very vocal about their dissent relating the Station Exchange..and here is a snippet from their FAQ yet again:
"when life knocks you to your knees...well, thats the best posistion to pray in, isn't it ?"