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Morrison gets called out
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Let me just interrupt here for a sec. This is baiting. Stop it. Please read the RoC, found in my signature, before posting. No one is derailing the thread. No one is going off-topic. Discuss and be polite.
Thanks.
Despite my many criticisms of the game, I do feel for him. Sometimes, there's not a particularly good decision to make, but a less bad one. Either way, AoC, to me, seems inefficient. They put out about 50% compared to most AAA titles(that are doing well). Maybe that's why they're "rebuilding the engine" for the next update.
I hope it works. There's alot of good things about AoC, those things just don't translate to gameplay that keeps you logging in. The music, the gfx and animations... the cleaving of well-deserved foes... few MMO's can give you that.
But it's just not enough.
Now they cant erase it.
http://pastebin.com/irmWK70n
Anyways I agree, I subscribed to AOC a total of 3 months in the most, I quit AOC due to lack of PVP, and fun content, Annoying little kids, and no point in the game. The AOC game itself sucked, did not look like any good artwork on the armors to me. I feel bad for the enviormental designers because they did a really great job, but the design of the armor, and such did not look like AOC Comics and such.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927504-age-of-conan-hyborian-adventures/43557131
Look at the difference, and see why I quit AOC.
With respect to DL, I'll still answer this, and politely.
My point was, that your source of information(regarding 41k subs) is unreliable beyond a trend, to say the least. You say there were 350-ish thousand people playing PvP til' the item revamp came along; this is false. I explained my reasoning.
You say there are only 41k(again, an intriguingly SPECIFIC number of) people playing now. This is also false in the opposite direction. I explained my reasoning.
Your "light", aka the website you mentioned, shines no light at all on the problem. That was my point. It shines NO LIGHT on this or ANY "blind alley".
Look, lay off the stats, okay?
THOSE ARE THE ONLY STATS WE HAVE. If you/Funcom/Avery dislikes them so much, release your own stats.
Then we can see if yours look any more favourable for AoC. But it's November now and all those year-long special offer subs are about to expire. I doubt it's going to look good.
If you with to debate that, feel free. If you want to sneer and say "lol crappy stats", please go elsewhere.
Hi
Debate, what?
There were so many problems at launch with this game that it just turned off so many players. It was SOLD as a PvP type of game in many of the demonstrations/interviews, and then when you go to a seige having people locked out of a seige, the massive lag, and the enemy killing themselves to rack up kill points was just stupidly broken. Then Funcom says that PvP wasn't the focus of the game design. Brilliant.
The transportation system was broken, having to kill oneself to get around some of the larger zones. That just felt broken.
The high-level content was a joke compared to the low-level Tortage experience.
DX10 content, which was shown off over and over again in demos, wasn't in the game at launch. Seriously, when you show it off in multiple demos, put it on the box cover, it should be in the game. Just unbelievable.
I shorted Funcom stock about 2 weeks after playing AoC and I'd like to thank Funcom for making me a lot of money in exchange for my miserable experience. I will ALWAYS play MMO games made by small public companies, because if they fail or succeed, they can make you a lot of money in the market.
Many of this things you are listing, have little to nothing to do with Craig. He became GD much later, and on top of that he have a no saying on how thing were or will be on the marketing point for example. While it is OK to vent out some anger, it is not really fair towards the GD, specially when he puts a lot of work that simply stays behind doors. And all are ignorant about the truth... It is actually a bit sad to read his answers, because most people won't even understand what is he saying.
And to the OP. You probably got banned right, I do not see the big deal. While stating your opinion is ok, going personal is not.
Why is it unreasonable? Craig Morrison has lost as many subs as Gaute Godager did - Gaute got fired. Nobody's suggesting that Morrison be fired. They are suggesting he consider his position and do the honourable thing.
That's not an insult. I don't know why you maintain that it is.
I don't get it? If Gaute stayed I am POSITIVE that a lot more people would leave the game. Craig is doing a MUCH better job then Gaute did and Craig is left with a task of mending a very DEEP and large cut to Funcom and AOC. Which in my eyes is practically impossible. I have to agree with Robsolf, the OP was reasonable until he started to demand resignation. That in itself loses all credibility and is a VERY unreasonable demand let alone request
I support Graig!
I think this is the worst roasting I've ever seen a GD take on his own forums.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
This is spot-on!
Unfortunately these sorts of well thought out and obvious points usually get lost on at least a portion of the PvP crowd in MMO's...Especially newer one's...It's the EXACT reason Devs like Morrison turn to the PvE crowd because #1 - there's more of them, and #2 - they are FAR less fickle...
It's no secret why Games like AoC and WAR...Games that claimed to be the be all end all of PvP Combat in MMO's...Fell flat on their faces...When you make promises to the PvP crowd you better be able to deliver...I think this is exactly why Games like SWTOR are saying next to nothing about PvP...They don't want to over-promise...When PvPers have Games like Battlefield and Modern Warfare to fall back on it's easy for them to quit an MMO when the actual Game Play falls well short of their expectations...And balance issues are as old as the day is long...That's never going away...
...afraid you don't get away with it as easy as that. I can literally count on one or two fingers the number of times I have overruled the team in the last two years, so when you say that you think that I am personally the 'weak link', I am afraid that you are saying the same thing of the team.
Sure...you can, like that proverbial football coach, hold me responsible for what the team do, and how they execute, but don't kid yourself that my 'influence' is behind those parts of the game you dislike, because they are virtually always team decisions. We genuinely do the things we think are best for the game in each and every update.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=228783&page=6
He blamed the state of the game on his team
as Lead YOU are responsible because ultimately the team is working to your specifications and in the end, you have the option of vetoing something that isn't done the way you want.
You don't blame your team
Now these guys have to go into work knowing that their boss just threw them under the bus.
Dude,
Wich part of "Age of Conan" was already dead, before Craig took over didn't you get?
From the resources and materials he had to work with. He did a pretty decent job. Much better than expected.
As a lot of people (me included) thought Age of Conan wouldn't make it passed the end of it's first year! Yet alone see a full blown expansion.
You can never please everyone. That's just a given fact. Simple as that.
Actually team-working in many countries can be quite different from the US. If you go and work in Asia for example, team-leaders really do not carry responsibility, the team does. It is not as drastic in Europe, but I know for a certain that in Scandinavia many companies employ teams differently from the US. And yes, the team is responsible for decisions and results not solely the manager. Managers are more like facilitators than decision makers.
Not all cultures work in a similar fashion. If you are not from one that has a tradition to collectivism and shared responsibility, I can see how their style of team-work would feel very alien to you. However, it does not make it right or wrong, just different.
If you are interested actually knowing about this stuff, I recommend the following link:
http://www.worldbusinessculture.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norway
Management
Cultures which promote a more egalitarian approach and strive for flat structures,tend to develop very specific characteristics with regard to management approach.
In Norway,bosses are expected to act more as coaches and facilitators that as paternalistic,authoritarian figures. Jante Law also states that,‘you shall not believe you are smarter than others’ and ‘ you shall not behave as if you are better than others.’ Thus bosses are expected to act as the first amongst equals and their job is to encourage the best out of all colleagues and ensure an effective allocation of company resources.
Decisions tend to be consensual and one result of this approach is that decisions can be hard to reach and the process can be lengthy. Managers often feel the need to include everybody in the decision-making process and it is seen as important that everybody's point of view is listened to and valued. For people from a culture where management style is much more directive,this slow,consensual approach can be very frustrating. However,even if this approach is frustrating for you,it is dangerous to ignore it – any attempt at direct imposition of orders without sufficient discussion might be resisted strongly.
One very positive aspect of this egalitarian approach is that information flow within Norwegian organisations is usually very open and all employees therefore feel engaged and valued.
Team-work
The key Norwegian characteristics of egalitarianism,consensus-seeking and lack of ego tend to make Norwegians extremely good team players – but the team must correspond to their idea of what constitutes a good,well-functioning team. Therefore,the more southern European team (characterised by a group of individuals working in isolation and reporting to a strong,instructive-style leader) is unlikely to succeed. There is a need for the team leader to offer continuous consultation and develop an ongoing 'buy-in' process.
Each team member expects and is expected to perform his or her individual tasks with the minimum of supervision from superiors. Such unwarranted supervision might be seen as a criticism or lack of trust in professional capabilities.
In summary,if handled well,a Norwegian will be an enormous asset to any team but if he or she is left to feel uninvolved or in any way.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
No not speaking on a cultural level. See we don't speak with the individual team members. We speak only with Sil. We are told by him and everyone else he is the man in charge. While he is able to come on the forums and defend himself and blame his team, his team does not have that same freedom.
So, yes, to me it is wrong regardless of where you are from.
I mean sure, you can say it's fine in other cultures to pass the buck on to your subordinates even though they answer to you, but it won't change my views on it lol.
I think it's great to see a dev give a troll a little insight into reality. tbh, he could have gone further. It is weird that people feel so entitled that they expect a game to perfectly conform to their personal opinions and then when it doesn't they want people fired? Hell, Conan is so far from perfect it isn't funny, but there is never any point in trolling like that.
His bosses have way more info then we do about the performance of the game, and the way his team works, so the only opinion about how well he does will be theirs. At the end of the day a game could royally stink, be pathetic, but the guy brought in to clean it up (as he was) might be doing a stellar job to keep the thing going for all we know
The game is also much better than it was before he took over. It's not a great game, just an average, or maybe a good one if you like what it does, so it is hard to knock him too much. I think he has done a pretty good job given the state of what he took over. Wasn't his fault that the previous guy made promises he couldn't cash, can't blame the next guy for not delivering on those. Well, I guess on the internet you can blame anyone for anything, but it doesn't mean you ain't being a troll!
This was a good point of view until the OP asked Morrison to resign, as most already stated in this thread. I stopped reading when the OP started using Strawman arguments to troll Craig Morrison (such as the 'he's blaming it on his team' part).
The 41k subs isn't doing any good in this discussion. It's like using xFire numbers. It is a good tool to note trends such as increases, declines or peaks, but it's worthless if used as an absolute value whatsoever.
While I think this game still needs a lot of improvement to become viable (Indie-like user interface, Bori becoming THE mean to get pvp gear, awful trade skills), a good reason why the game is on decline is its community (or lack of good community management). Servers and forums are always filled with doomsayers since day 1, keeping the community in such a dark cloud makes it hard to feel good about using any kind of 'global communication channel'. The so-called 'advocates' are often caught trolling. The game also favorize fewer gigantic guilds on the PvP side (basically the ones that control Bori). At least that was my feeling few months ago.
Note that levelling a toon in this game is still a good experience. And I'll probably come back few times to re-do it all over again.
Word from the inside - NO, I WILL NOT NAME MY SOURCE, DON'T ASK ME - is that Age of Conan currently has around 98,000 subscriptions. Over 50,000 of those have not logged nto the game in 8 weeks. When the cheap "year long" subs run out in November and December, we will get a clearer picture.
Somebody will now claim that I made up these figures. That's okay. I didn't.
This is just a personal observation claiming no support from any established line of thought but I find that many Europeans on this board tend to interject the fact that are from Europe and exactly where and why that makes them different from the prevailing American mindset in a lot of these threads.
Usually followed by some sweeping generalization about the United States or some jab about arrogance (which this comment will be labeled I'm sure). Which I fond odd considering the nature of the melting pot nation. I would wager there are some companies in the US that are composed entirely of certain European nationalities.
Although the difference in cultural viewpoint is likely more of an issue in this case (as the developer is Funcom) I don't think this is a case of radically different 'culturally influenced' business creeds but rather simply a study in how a company head deals with detractors and clients.
I'm not sure you are supposed to find these interactions amusing but that is exactly what this is to a lot of people.
Not really the case here. When you scrutinize his posting history objectively - which is hard for some, I admit - then you notice that he has always talked about and included the team, also in the good days.
So no sudden deviation of his usual manner of speaking, just that you like to perceive it like that for whatever reason.
Besides that, the OP of this thread was very subjective, I suspect the OP poster was somebody who was banned in that thread.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It is not about arrogance of Americans. I have worked extensively with many Americans who do understand that not everyone does the business their way. In fact, most of the world does not. Americans who are better educated and work abroad usually understand this very well. If they don't, they don't usually last long.
Nor is there something wrong with how Americans manage or perform in teams, just like there is nothing wrong with how Norwegians or Japanese do it either. It is just different and when someone from Europe or Asia go to work in the US they also have to adapt to often quite radical changes. These are cultural issues.
The only arrogance is not to admit when you are clearly speaking from ignorance when the differences have been pointed out. It does not matter from which country you come from.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
It goes both way. And in both cases it oftens drift to fallacies.
At any rate, statements such as "In the same statement Sil separated himself from the Team, saying he's only only overruled the team once or twice and that the things the players don't like are the teams doing and that he "Sil" had nothing to do with them. " is an incorrect statement used to put Craig Morrison in a position that is easy to criticize, known as Straw Man argument. Moreover, it moves the discussion onto Craig Morrison's integrity instead of arguing about design decisions he and his team made. Pulling the nationality card in this, while giving an interesting point of view, only brings invalid generalizations.
But when your American viewpoints are used to criticize a British game developer's mannerism and behavior toward his team and himself, people tend to look at you like either you're blatantly ignoring that fact or your American "arrogance" is bubbling to the surface.
Like someone else has already stated, Mr. Morrison's statements have been consistent throughout the forum as I was reading all 20+ pages. Good or bad, he and his team are equally taking blame/credit. But in his post he was clearly sticking with his team and the direction they have taken AoC. Which I think is better by the way. I also remember AoC getting rimmed left and right when it first launched and a video of a player on a rhino kicking other players off a cliff when they tried to cross a bridge into a starter city. Back then I wanted no part of that.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."