I would not even consider a game with any chance of permadeath. If somehow, someone talked me into playing a game with permadeath...90+% of my deaths in a mmo have been in a group, so I would lean away from groups to avoid the trauma. Still, my luck, in a permadeath game, would be to be in a solo encounter only to lose my connection...once able to log in again being taken to the start-up screen to start a new character? No thanks.
Permadeath is only a figment of your imagination. No serious developer would ever implement such because of the huge problem of the idiosyncracies of the internet and the support problems it would cause.
Posters with this permadeath fantasy can't get over that significant hurdle so why waste time even discussing such?
The fact is the only developer who would have the bravado to implement such in any shape or form would basically have to forego any kind of support policy. Now who would play a game that has zero support. Exploiters to start, would have a field day with such a game.
Just not going to happen.
Oh and you can forego using games that no one has ever heard of as examples nor games like Diablo that are not MMO's.
If you make it to where once your character falls in battle it just stays there with a timer of 48 hours, waiting to be rezzed by a player. Only when the timer reaches zero (there is no releasing to bind point of course), then the character gets BALETED!!
That way you don't have to freak out if you have a bad linkdeath. You can still be rezzed.
Dying in a hard enough area could be crazy though, the people coming to rez you die, the people coming after them to rez also die... could be fun!
Face of Mankind also has Perma-death. They use a clone system. You can buy as many as you want but if you cannot afford to buy anymore then you are dead forever.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Face of Mankind also has Perma-death. They use a clone system. You can buy as many as you want but if you cannot afford to buy anymore then you are dead forever.
Thanks for the info. One more game to avoid, not that i have an abundance of time to try out new games anyway.
I suppose the flip side of "is there a community if you've eliminated millions of potential players before they even started playing?" is "When the game's entire community is 1000 players, they'll be brought together out of fear of playing completely alone."
Why do you think there would be no community in a permadeath game, when at least 10% of the people posting on MMORPG.com admit they'd at least "try it out and see what the game is like" and perhaps even those 10% admitting "I want a game with permadeath."
I have never been a fan of any of your opinions, but this one I can't even see your side on, because it's just plain wrong.
1) 1000 players is a large community. Most MMO servers don't even have 1000 players playing in the same areas, let alone in the same zone.
You won't even find 1000 players in the most populated server of WoW in the most popular Major City. It will be in the hundreds...but not the thousands.
So even if a game only had 1000 players, it's still an MMO- and possibly more-so than any other MMO if those players are interacting in the same area, especially if that area is smaller than average. A game with 10,000 players spread across 100 zones and 5 servers is only 2000 per server, 20 per zone. In fact, some MMO's have empty zones even on popular servers. 100 players in one zone on a game with permadeath is a POPULATED game compared to an MMO with 3 players in one zone.
2) Assuming "millions will be alienated" and only 1000 players will stay is just asinine. Where are the facts to this assumption? My fact supporting my argument is that a significant percent of people on this very forum would admit "I would at least try the game out." and a good percent on this very forum actually state "I would love a game with permadeath."
Even if it's only 1% or 10%, that's still a lot of players, since MMO gamers are in the millions. 1% of a million is 10,000 players. That's a lot, especially if you only have one server.
3) You need to keep in mind how many people are actually in one MMO server. WoW doesn't have millions of players all on a single server, all online at the same time. If it had 8 million subscribers, you have to then cut it down to how many of those are US or European subscribers (ones you can and do play with) which cuts it down drastically. Then you have to cut it down to what % are usually online (primetime and abnormal times). Then you have to cut it down by how many zones the game has, and how popular and big those zones are. Then once again by how many servers there are and their population. And finally by how many are in the vicinity of actually having a chance to interact in some way with the world around you, or you directly.
Wow, that 8 million magically turned into only a few hundred...no wait, no more than 5. Wow. MMO suddenly changed to MO in a MMO world.
Now 1000 players is looking pretty freaking large, if the game world isn't spread across hundreds of servers, zones, etc.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
As briefly mentioned, the inclusion of this game-changing feature depends "95%" on how it is implemented. A few things why I think it could "bring the community closer" and why I would be interested in trying it:
- A company that started to make an MMO with this at the core of the game design would be looking at this niche in MMOs that brings the player into real danger/cost with such a feature and where community could be designed to be the safety button against this danger. Community has a valued/reciprocal function?
- A company that actually went down this road might also have some innovative/original ideas unlike other MMOs released that might also be a co-factor towards both making suitable conditions for community and something for communities to achieve also. Freedom for communities to develop?
- This extreme idea might draw a niche of players united by the idea as well as the under representation of this among current MMOs. Non-random assortment of playerbase might lead to more cohesive communities?
- Something genuine for players to talk about!
So sure there are some suppositions here, but there is also potential epic as well as potential fail and maybe above all something different from other MMOs...
Face of Mankind also has Perma-death. They use a clone system. You can buy as many as you want but if you cannot afford to buy anymore then you are dead forever.
Thanks for the info. One more game to avoid, not that i have an abundance of time to try out new games anyway.
To be fair FOM isn't bad. It could use some polish and faction balance is problematic with the police factions. But over all its not terrible, especially for a free game.
Permadeath in a game where PVP mattered would create a society of cautious, polite and helpful people honestly. Take UO the Baja server which was full pvp, one of the most harsh servers in UO, had one of the most helpful communities in Ultima Online.
But by definition PVP would be serious business and hard to do. PVE would truly be a risk especially against large 50 foot creatures.
I would respect any player pvp or pve that played for years and didnt die.
I imagine dying in games like this would be very very hard. Not one shot deaths like in other mmorpgs.
The way some of these people are, seriously, I wouldn't really want to play an mmo where there was permadeath because some ticked off unbalanced antisocial type might end up knocking on my door with ill intentions lol.
Unfortunately in this instant gratification environment that we live in people wouldnt play the game. It saddens me that we have games that literally let you revive yourself with no penalty.
Perma death will never work in MMO's, so many variables, chances are sooner or later you will get disconnected at a bad time, and lose 1000 hours of play ??
I think permadeath a lot of hardcore would buy it, then quickly realize its a big waste of time and quit.
I dont class myself as hardcore, yet i have played perma death games for over 6 years now.
I have had charactors die that i have leveled and played for many hours but these deaths were never by isp fault they were all my fault .. eg leeroying into a pack of monsters or rushing in an area i knew to be hard.
Hellgate London to me had the most dangerous perma death gameplay i had ever played (those that did not cheat by being leveled by higher charactors in the Wilds).
I for one would like to see permanant deaths in mmorpg for then the act of true role playing would have a severe ending.
Also i would think that the Diablo3 and Torchlight franchises will have perma deaths in there games.
So i for one will not realize that it is a big waste of time and quit.
I suppose the flip side of "is there a community if you've eliminated millions of potential players before they even started playing?" is "When the game's entire community is 1000 players, they'll be brought together out of fear of playing completely alone."
Why do you think there would be no community in a permadeath game, when at least 10% of the people posting on MMORPG.com admit they'd at least "try it out and see what the game is like" and perhaps even those 10% admitting "I want a game with permadeath."
I have never been a fan of any of your opinions, but this one I can't even see your side on, because it's just plain wrong.
1) 1000 players is a large community. Most MMO servers don't even have 1000 players playing in the same areas, let alone in the same zone.
You won't even find 1000 players in the most populated server of WoW in the most popular Major City. It will be in the hundreds...but not the thousands.
So even if a game only had 1000 players, it's still an MMO- and possibly more-so than any other MMO if those players are interacting in the same area, especially if that area is smaller than average. A game with 10,000 players spread across 100 zones and 5 servers is only 2000 per server, 20 per zone. In fact, some MMO's have empty zones even on popular servers. 100 players in one zone on a game with permadeath is a POPULATED game compared to an MMO with 3 players in one zone.
2) Assuming "millions will be alienated" and only 1000 players will stay is just asinine. Where are the facts to this assumption? My fact supporting my argument is that a significant percent of people on this very forum would admit "I would at least try the game out." and a good percent on this very forum actually state "I would love a game with permadeath."
Even if it's only 1% or 10%, that's still a lot of players, since MMO gamers are in the millions. 1% of a million is 10,000 players. That's a lot, especially if you only have one server.
3) You need to keep in mind how many people are actually in one MMO server. WoW doesn't have millions of players all on a single server, all online at the same time. If it had 8 million subscribers, you have to then cut it down to how many of those are US or European subscribers (ones you can and do play with) which cuts it down drastically. Then you have to cut it down to what % are usually online (primetime and abnormal times). Then you have to cut it down by how many zones the game has, and how popular and big those zones are. Then once again by how many servers there are and their population. And finally by how many are in the vicinity of actually having a chance to interact in some way with the world around you, or you directly.
Wow, that 8 million magically turned into only a few hundred...no wait, no more than 5. Wow. MMO suddenly changed to MO in a MMO world.
Now 1000 players is looking pretty freaking large, if the game world isn't spread across hundreds of servers, zones, etc.
10% of posters on MMORPG.com is a much (much!) different thing than 10% of potential MMORPG players in the real world. Judging by MMORPG posting, all games would be sandbox, but that's certainly not the case (although part of it is the extreme definition of sandbox used; if you concede that WOW has sandbox/freedom elements, then you come to a more useful understanding that sandbox elements are actually pretty desireable when designed in a fun way which is clear to players.)
The more prominent permadeath is, the fewer players are interested. EVE has "permadeath" in a very light and "You'll only die if you're excessively stupid/reckless" sort of way, and because this is so many steps removed from true permadeath it mitigates the reduction of players (but probably still has a very high likelihood of losing a subscriber any time it actually does happen.)
1000 players is a sufficient niche audience to offer all gameplay that constitutes the "MMO" acronym. It is by no means a "safe" game population for a normal indie-budget game. That's the reason for my green quote above.
Furthermore, obsessing over whether you fit the MMO acronym is less important than whether you offer fun enough gameplay to keep attracting players, as evidenced by WOW maintaining its numbers despite being an "MO". MMO or MO, all players care about is whether the gameplay amuses them. A developer who fails to care about what the players care about makes crappy games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well, permadeath means there is no permanent success in your gaming.
Anytime you can lose everything you did before and start again from zero.
Obviously this results in people not developing much of a connection to their characters. They wont do much roleplaying, they wont care getting the best gear, they wont play the game for years.
And every time they die permanently and lose everything, they will probably think about leaving the game and go for the next whatever game.
Its possible that people are allowed to create multiple characters. Then they might try to have some storage characters that get the "good stuff" and some playing characters that will eventually die, but beforehand are able to collect ressources so you WONT start from zero every time again.
Kind of like the Diablo Hard mode, or how it was called.
That would allow players to have a longtime motivation, but obviously this isnt a gaming style for everyone.
[...] Individualism is stronger in the west, causing little trust among its community
Pfft.
WTF does this have to do with TRUST ?
Westeners value individuality and creativity and are simply BORED by eastern games which have little customization and believe endless mob killing is somehow entertaining.
Trust has no part in the question if a game bores me or not.
There's a lot of player assumptions to fill in the holes left by the OP contention... for the implementation of Permadeath... no wonder there are so many mmos that seem the same is one reaction to that? The only solid reason I've seen this is a no-go is a technical one, that to implement with the capricious nature of networks is unworkable, let alone if it might be a major influence on MMO communities (again depending on the implementation/barring technical difficulties).
Alot of the posts I see here say that an MMO(even a MUD according to one poster) wouldn't be able to last with a Perma Death system implemented. I think that a MMO could work if it was done right ala "death tokens" like what Trials of Ascension (R.I.P) had planned to do. And as for not even MUDs with a permadeath system not working, my Dad has regaled me with many tales of the old Gemstone days. In this game you had a certain amount of lives, and could get more if you did a certain quest, and when you lost out on those lives your character "rode the rocket". It was open PvP almost everywhere, but the community was very tight and took care of troublemakers the old fashioned way. Of course that was what? More than 10 years ago? Some would say "what fun is it pour hours into something only to have it taken away?" I say what fun is it to reach a stagnation point? It's a difference in playstyle. Personally I'd like for things to be shaken up in the current MMO market, no one is willing to break the mold and try something new or try to properly implement a feature that was done poorly in the past.
Subject: Permadeath in any MMO, current MMO or imagined.
<snip>
DISCUSS!!!
That word..."DISCUSS", implyed you were looking for opinions on the subject, hence the debate that has followed. Mocking people who took your original post at face value because you didn't receive the reply you wanted is just stupid.
And since you have edited your post and not removed the "DISCUSS" part, I'll comment on the idea of 'permadeath'.
It's stupid and foolish.
MMOs are about connecting with and playing through characters you've created. Removing the connection people feel for their toons would be disastrous. I'm not at all into roleplay, so dying to me is the norm, not something I give a crap about.
And the option is already in any MMO out there, it's just voluntary...but I'll bet you NOBODY voluntarily accepts it. I suggest to anyone in support of 'permadeath' to put their money where their mouth is. Why wait for the community or the developers to institute it when you have the tools already at your finger tips? If you feel dying in a video game should be punished, delete your toon each time you die.
Subject: Permadeath in any MMO, current MMO or imagined.
DISCUSS!!!
That word..."DISCUSS", implyed you were looking for opinions on the subject, hence the debate that has followed. Mocking people who took your original post at face value because you didn't receive the reply you wanted is just stupid.
And since you have edited your post and not removed the "DISCUSS" part, I'll comment on the idea of 'permadeath'.
It's stupid and foolish.
MMOs are about connecting with and playing through characters you've created. Removing the connection people feel for their toons would be disastrous. I'm not at all into roleplay, so dying to me is the norm, not something I give a crap about.
And the option is already in any MMO out there, it's just voluntary...but I'll bet you NOBODY voluntarily accepts it. I suggest to anyone in support of 'permadeath' to put their money where their mouth is. Why wait for the community or the developers to institute it when you have the tools already at your finger tips? If you feel dying in a video game should be punished, delete your toon each time you die.
Start the trend! Be a leader! Lead by example!
DISCUSS! is to discuss the topic.
The topic is not permadeath.
The topic is permadeath's effect on said game's gaming society. This is a discussion on gamer society, NOT permadeath.
Epic fail on your behalf.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
The topic is permadeath's effect on said game's gaming society. This is a discussion on gamer society, NOT permadeath.
Epic fail on your behalf.
I honestly don't think it's worth your effort to argue with someone who has very poor reading comprehension skills and who lacks a reasonable understanding of what constructive criticism is. Just a friendly tip.
If you asked me 10 years ago, I'd have said players would group more.
Today, they would group less.
The average ability of players these days, in both attention, skill, maturity, and apparently intellegence, has dropped off significantly. I wouldn't chance grouping with people I didn't know for absolute sure weren't incompetent at playing the game, whereas 10 years ago I would trust that the majority of players weren't terrible.
So the central point of your post is to show us you played back in the days when only super geniuses played?
No, simply that the demographic of MMO gamers tended to be composed of players who were significantly more apt to excel in said games due to several factors.
Today's player populations are diluted with a gross amount of... less than apt individuals.
Seems like more of a brag. Having been a gamer since the early 70s, there have always been those who came before who "thought" they were "special". Nothing has ever been shown that demostrates they are that great.
Comments
I would not even consider a game with any chance of permadeath. If somehow, someone talked me into playing a game with permadeath...90+% of my deaths in a mmo have been in a group, so I would lean away from groups to avoid the trauma. Still, my luck, in a permadeath game, would be to be in a solo encounter only to lose my connection...once able to log in again being taken to the start-up screen to start a new character? No thanks.
Permadeath is only a figment of your imagination. No serious developer would ever implement such because of the huge problem of the idiosyncracies of the internet and the support problems it would cause.
Posters with this permadeath fantasy can't get over that significant hurdle so why waste time even discussing such?
The fact is the only developer who would have the bravado to implement such in any shape or form would basically have to forego any kind of support policy. Now who would play a game that has zero support. Exploiters to start, would have a field day with such a game.
Just not going to happen.
Oh and you can forego using games that no one has ever heard of as examples nor games like Diablo that are not MMO's.
If you make it to where once your character falls in battle it just stays there with a timer of 48 hours, waiting to be rezzed by a player. Only when the timer reaches zero (there is no releasing to bind point of course), then the character gets BALETED!!
That way you don't have to freak out if you have a bad linkdeath. You can still be rezzed.
Dying in a hard enough area could be crazy though, the people coming to rez you die, the people coming after them to rez also die... could be fun!
Face of Mankind also has Perma-death. They use a clone system. You can buy as many as you want but if you cannot afford to buy anymore then you are dead forever.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Thanks for the info. One more game to avoid, not that i have an abundance of time to try out new games anyway.
Why do you think there would be no community in a permadeath game, when at least 10% of the people posting on MMORPG.com admit they'd at least "try it out and see what the game is like" and perhaps even those 10% admitting "I want a game with permadeath."
I have never been a fan of any of your opinions, but this one I can't even see your side on, because it's just plain wrong.
1) 1000 players is a large community. Most MMO servers don't even have 1000 players playing in the same areas, let alone in the same zone.
You won't even find 1000 players in the most populated server of WoW in the most popular Major City. It will be in the hundreds...but not the thousands.
So even if a game only had 1000 players, it's still an MMO- and possibly more-so than any other MMO if those players are interacting in the same area, especially if that area is smaller than average. A game with 10,000 players spread across 100 zones and 5 servers is only 2000 per server, 20 per zone. In fact, some MMO's have empty zones even on popular servers. 100 players in one zone on a game with permadeath is a POPULATED game compared to an MMO with 3 players in one zone.
2) Assuming "millions will be alienated" and only 1000 players will stay is just asinine. Where are the facts to this assumption? My fact supporting my argument is that a significant percent of people on this very forum would admit "I would at least try the game out." and a good percent on this very forum actually state "I would love a game with permadeath."
Even if it's only 1% or 10%, that's still a lot of players, since MMO gamers are in the millions. 1% of a million is 10,000 players. That's a lot, especially if you only have one server.
3) You need to keep in mind how many people are actually in one MMO server. WoW doesn't have millions of players all on a single server, all online at the same time. If it had 8 million subscribers, you have to then cut it down to how many of those are US or European subscribers (ones you can and do play with) which cuts it down drastically. Then you have to cut it down to what % are usually online (primetime and abnormal times). Then you have to cut it down by how many zones the game has, and how popular and big those zones are. Then once again by how many servers there are and their population. And finally by how many are in the vicinity of actually having a chance to interact in some way with the world around you, or you directly.
Wow, that 8 million magically turned into only a few hundred...no wait, no more than 5. Wow. MMO suddenly changed to MO in a MMO world.
Now 1000 players is looking pretty freaking large, if the game world isn't spread across hundreds of servers, zones, etc.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
As briefly mentioned, the inclusion of this game-changing feature depends "95%" on how it is implemented. A few things why I think it could "bring the community closer" and why I would be interested in trying it:
- A company that started to make an MMO with this at the core of the game design would be looking at this niche in MMOs that brings the player into real danger/cost with such a feature and where community could be designed to be the safety button against this danger. Community has a valued/reciprocal function?
- A company that actually went down this road might also have some innovative/original ideas unlike other MMOs released that might also be a co-factor towards both making suitable conditions for community and something for communities to achieve also. Freedom for communities to develop?
- This extreme idea might draw a niche of players united by the idea as well as the under representation of this among current MMOs. Non-random assortment of playerbase might lead to more cohesive communities?
- Something genuine for players to talk about!
So sure there are some suppositions here, but there is also potential epic as well as potential fail and maybe above all something different from other MMOs...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
To be fair FOM isn't bad. It could use some polish and faction balance is problematic with the police factions. But over all its not terrible, especially for a free game.
Permadeath in a game where PVP mattered would create a society of cautious, polite and helpful people honestly. Take UO the Baja server which was full pvp, one of the most harsh servers in UO, had one of the most helpful communities in Ultima Online.
But by definition PVP would be serious business and hard to do. PVE would truly be a risk especially against large 50 foot creatures.
I would respect any player pvp or pve that played for years and didnt die.
I imagine dying in games like this would be very very hard. Not one shot deaths like in other mmorpgs.
The way some of these people are, seriously, I wouldn't really want to play an mmo where there was permadeath because some ticked off unbalanced antisocial type might end up knocking on my door with ill intentions lol.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Unfortunately in this instant gratification environment that we live in people wouldnt play the game. It saddens me that we have games that literally let you revive yourself with no penalty.
-Janson
I dont class myself as hardcore, yet i have played perma death games for over 6 years now.
I have had charactors die that i have leveled and played for many hours but these deaths were never by isp fault they were all my fault .. eg leeroying into a pack of monsters or rushing in an area i knew to be hard.
Hellgate London to me had the most dangerous perma death gameplay i had ever played (those that did not cheat by being leveled by higher charactors in the Wilds).
I for one would like to see permanant deaths in mmorpg for then the act of true role playing would have a severe ending.
Also i would think that the Diablo3 and Torchlight franchises will have perma deaths in there games.
So i for one will not realize that it is a big waste of time and quit.
10% of posters on MMORPG.com is a much (much!) different thing than 10% of potential MMORPG players in the real world. Judging by MMORPG posting, all games would be sandbox, but that's certainly not the case (although part of it is the extreme definition of sandbox used; if you concede that WOW has sandbox/freedom elements, then you come to a more useful understanding that sandbox elements are actually pretty desireable when designed in a fun way which is clear to players.)
The more prominent permadeath is, the fewer players are interested. EVE has "permadeath" in a very light and "You'll only die if you're excessively stupid/reckless" sort of way, and because this is so many steps removed from true permadeath it mitigates the reduction of players (but probably still has a very high likelihood of losing a subscriber any time it actually does happen.)
1000 players is a sufficient niche audience to offer all gameplay that constitutes the "MMO" acronym. It is by no means a "safe" game population for a normal indie-budget game. That's the reason for my green quote above.
Furthermore, obsessing over whether you fit the MMO acronym is less important than whether you offer fun enough gameplay to keep attracting players, as evidenced by WOW maintaining its numbers despite being an "MO". MMO or MO, all players care about is whether the gameplay amuses them. A developer who fails to care about what the players care about makes crappy games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well, permadeath means there is no permanent success in your gaming.
Anytime you can lose everything you did before and start again from zero.
Obviously this results in people not developing much of a connection to their characters. They wont do much roleplaying, they wont care getting the best gear, they wont play the game for years.
And every time they die permanently and lose everything, they will probably think about leaving the game and go for the next whatever game.
Its possible that people are allowed to create multiple characters. Then they might try to have some storage characters that get the "good stuff" and some playing characters that will eventually die, but beforehand are able to collect ressources so you WONT start from zero every time again.
Kind of like the Diablo Hard mode, or how it was called.
That would allow players to have a longtime motivation, but obviously this isnt a gaming style for everyone.
WTF nope why would it do any such thing ?
Player group if you force them to group because otherwise they cant manage the environment.
Pfft.
WTF does this have to do with TRUST ?
Westeners value individuality and creativity and are simply BORED by eastern games which have little customization and believe endless mob killing is somehow entertaining.
Trust has no part in the question if a game bores me or not.
Um.
You obviously have one permadeath in every game, because you cant continue playing once permadeath in reallife happened ...
Not only graphics. Also touch, smell, ...
Also, the AI is great. Just think of the women there. No other game has anything compareable !
Also, this game has only one permadeath and while its unavoidable, it usually takes decades before it actually happends.
(OK maybe it has multiple permadeaths, but we dont know for sure about it)
There's a lot of player assumptions to fill in the holes left by the OP contention... for the implementation of Permadeath... no wonder there are so many mmos that seem the same is one reaction to that? The only solid reason I've seen this is a no-go is a technical one, that to implement with the capricious nature of networks is unworkable, let alone if it might be a major influence on MMO communities (again depending on the implementation/barring technical difficulties).
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Alot of the posts I see here say that an MMO(even a MUD according to one poster) wouldn't be able to last with a Perma Death system implemented. I think that a MMO could work if it was done right ala "death tokens" like what Trials of Ascension (R.I.P) had planned to do. And as for not even MUDs with a permadeath system not working, my Dad has regaled me with many tales of the old Gemstone days. In this game you had a certain amount of lives, and could get more if you did a certain quest, and when you lost out on those lives your character "rode the rocket". It was open PvP almost everywhere, but the community was very tight and took care of troublemakers the old fashioned way. Of course that was what? More than 10 years ago? Some would say "what fun is it pour hours into something only to have it taken away?" I say what fun is it to reach a stagnation point? It's a difference in playstyle. Personally I'd like for things to be shaken up in the current MMO market, no one is willing to break the mold and try something new or try to properly implement a feature that was done poorly in the past.
That word..."DISCUSS", implyed you were looking for opinions on the subject, hence the debate that has followed. Mocking people who took your original post at face value because you didn't receive the reply you wanted is just stupid.
And since you have edited your post and not removed the "DISCUSS" part, I'll comment on the idea of 'permadeath'.
It's stupid and foolish.
MMOs are about connecting with and playing through characters you've created. Removing the connection people feel for their toons would be disastrous. I'm not at all into roleplay, so dying to me is the norm, not something I give a crap about.
And the option is already in any MMO out there, it's just voluntary...but I'll bet you NOBODY voluntarily accepts it. I suggest to anyone in support of 'permadeath' to put their money where their mouth is. Why wait for the community or the developers to institute it when you have the tools already at your finger tips? If you feel dying in a video game should be punished, delete your toon each time you die.
Start the trend! Be a leader! Lead by example!
DISCUSS! is to discuss the topic.
The topic is not permadeath.
The topic is permadeath's effect on said game's gaming society. This is a discussion on gamer society, NOT permadeath.
Epic fail on your behalf.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I honestly don't think it's worth your effort to argue with someone who has very poor reading comprehension skills and who lacks a reasonable understanding of what constructive criticism is. Just a friendly tip.
Seems like more of a brag. Having been a gamer since the early 70s, there have always been those who came before who "thought" they were "special". Nothing has ever been shown that demostrates they are that great.