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Is F2P really better for business than subscription MMO's?
Emergence
Member Posts: 888
WIth Champions Online becoming free to play, along with Everquest 2 and LOTRO - all following DDO's example... is this really the better way for business?
Obviously I wouldn't argue it's better for the player. Most of these games seem to allow free play except if you want, you can still subscribe for $15 a month and get the exact same game (full game). Or the third option to pay less than $15 a month, or only one-time fees to unlock certain things. I really think this is a cool idea for us players.
But for business is it really good, or are developers just doing what business people usually do- copy the competition in hopes for a quick buck, only to find out it doesn't work for them like it did for the success story.
Businesses seem to make poor choices IMO, such as... every game trying to copy WoW. They all fail, thinking that if they copy WoW, it'll make them more money.
DDO is the WoW of F2P games in that it was the "starter" which kicked off with huge success and profit.
But do these other games actually make more money as Free to Play than as Pay to Play? Everquest 2, LOTRO, and CO.
I am curious as to actual sources which prove F2P is better than P2P. Does anyone know of any realiable sources which actually state, without exagerations or lying, that LOTRO or other F2P games actually DO make more money? And why do you think this is, if it's true?
Is F2P only good for low population games? Or do you think even WoW would profit from going F2P?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
F2P games are great for gams that arnt good enough to warrant a box purchase. Its an easy in really. Flood the game with F2P players and players that actually have money might be inclined to take a look.
I say for an MMORPG, charge $20 for the game client, then $5 a month for subscription. No cash shop at all. Free expansions like Eve Online.
Depends on the focal points of the game, how the cash shop is applied, quality of the game, etc.
I think a lot of smaller companies need to seriously start considering the option or they're going to have a hell of a time staying proftiable against some of the others currently on the market.
Seems to be doing well for Turbine anyways. Can't say how it is turning out for SOE. Far as with Cryptic, hard to tell. I think it will increase their revenue but really depends on how they implement it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Depends if you are a true casual gamer, and is the game a back up.. There are games such as LoTRO I wouldn't mind tinkering in on a super casual basis.. I maybe only play an hour a week or two on weekends.. IMO.. It doesn't warrant a monthly sub because of that, but F2P?, yeah.. It may take me months of play to get to a point of "cash" shopping upgrades.. But to me it would be cheaper to do that, then pay the $15 a month.. So for some games and companies, you are better off getting my $10 every 3 months in a cash shop, then get nothing at all..
F2P is popular to convert to after they fail at P2P.
One thing I like about F2Ps is that all areas are filled with players. A lot of P2Ps, and especially older ones, end up having all players at end-game and little to no players at the lower areas so new players always finds themselves alone, and often leave from boredom. F2Ps, or at least in the case of LOTRO and DDO who offers more of an Unlimited Free Trial Area, it allows to crowd those areas that would be empty, attract more players and in the end bring more income.
But not the key part of my first paragraph "Unlimited Free Trial Area". The games themselves are not entirely free to play, meaning that you will need to pay to access later content. That said, this unlimited free trial area still allows P2P MMOs to crowd the lower areas and in the end, bring more attention to their games to player who would not have tried it in the first place. Warhammer tried this, without a Cash Shop. The first Tier 1 area is entirely free, but the other areas are just empty. I'd be interesting to see if they added a Cash Shop.
Anyway, F2Ps and P2Ps with Unlimited Free Trial Area+Cash Shop are completly different things. The former works well but is unstable, the latter combines the pros of P2Ps and F2Ps and combine them together, and in the end, it is better for business than a 100% P2P.
Finally, I think those companies should completly forget about the F2P definition, as their games are not F2P. It's really just that, an Unlimited Free Trial Area. Real F2Ps allows you to play from Lv.1 to max level without spending a dime in the Cash Shop, while MMO's like LOTRO and DDO requires you to purchase content.
I agree that the failed P2P go F2P for a second chance at life and Like drones people buy crap in piles, thats why F2P is sucessful. Why should we pay for new zones or races? or health potions? it a crock of shit and they let you play free until you have no chioce to buy something cause your dying or bored to death with what you have. and like asses people say ok i'll buy points that come in packages that cost more that most subs do? and dont give you enough points to do the things you want to do so go buy more points? i mean really WTF? I hate F2P stores, why not just go out to the farm and drop a pile of cow shit on your keyboard then happily pay the dev for it......
only possible benifit and i mean possible...is the casual broke gamer who plays once or twice a month, it would take so long to progress that they might average out their spending to their benifit.
Oh and lets not forget to screw the lifers!
F2P as a statement is also untrue i agree, if its free why do we have to pay? BECAUSE ITS NOT FREE! But oooh we heard the word free he he lets go and be as dumb as they hope we are.....
As i am sure it has been explained before:
Free to play MMO's (with a cash shop) make their money by hugely expanding their playerbase (at least doubling it if not more) and earning money from people buying from the cash shop. Not everyone buys from the cash shop (i think i read somewhere on average it is less than 1/4 of players) so thats why they require a huge increase in the playerbase.
in short, they don't make more money unless their total player base (and people who buy from the cash shop) outweight what they had before (100% of the player base forking out $15 a month)
Advertising f2p games work the same except they simply need to get a larger playerbase to ensure big bucks.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
F2P is a better business model for games that are not doing that well or are beginning to decline. There is a reason successful subscription games don't go F2P.
Going F2P seems to be the beginning of the end for most games though. There may not be a lot of evidence to support that, but generally when a game goes F2P, if I haven't played it before, I'll continue to avoid it. I assume the fact that subscribers have dwindled to a number where this is considered the only option is a sign that a game isn't worth playing.
Like others have said, F2P is a last ditch effort to stay profitable. Atleast that what it seems right now. Bigger companys wont move into that model unless it makes sense to do so.
P2P is dominated by WoW, whether you like it or not. In order to combat this, games go F2P to attract more players which then realize how good of a game it actually might be.
There are games worth cost of purchase and sub and there are some that aren't. The problem is a lot of MMOs thought they were worth the cost of purchase and sub but they wern't. So when they realize people aren't going to pay the same price for their product as they would a product of better quality, they obviously have to find another method that works and F2P works. Whether you like it or not F2P works for products of decent quality. There is a huge difference is being forced to pay for something to play and to pay when you want to make your game experience more entertaining.
It's become quite trendy. I expect to see Blizzard and Activision implementing more and more RMT in WoW and their future games.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Yes. It's better. By a lot.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It's a trend, businesses are like cattle. I suspect it will come to a halt once three bad things happen that are linked directly or indirectly to it.
I don't know, I've seen other popular features of online games being tossed aside. Like community.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You've been grinding that axe so long its just a wooden stick now. Being wrong over a long period of time must be fun.
Well, besides Turbine stating that they have more subs and have increased profits, just wait until the quarterly report from Warner Brothers.
That will tell you what you need to know.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Cite an example, I'm not quite following you.
Businesses fail all the time. Doesn't change whether or not an underlying business formula is good or not.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Ok. My opinion still stands, once is not enough for them to learn, but when they find there is a limit to the number of people willing to pay then they are just a game with the stink of failure on them and there is very little chance of recovery from that. It's like double-down on fail.
1) There arent enough total game players at 4/1 plus overhead to make FTP WoW even a thought.
2) Actual FTP games tend to be *HIGHER* in price than P2P games to play competatively.
3) P2P is better in my mind than F2P in that everyone is "equal" -- Actually people who really want the tables tilted toward them and have tons of money gravitate to F2ps
4a) The main reason why the F2P movement is working is that they have NEW servers where everyone is starting at level 1 with a big enough playerbase to find groups. As P2Ps mature the newbie areas become tumbleweed infested. Then the chill wind starts to blow through the mid-level areas. Eventually you have a grind to near cap experience just to find other people.
4b) This would be even better in Aion where they really should open a F2P server in the west. That is one game where you really want to get in on the ground floor or you are fodder. Thing is a new F2P server works better than a new P2P server because you have extra "ghost players" who are playing the game as escorts for the players who are paying and count.
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One major issue with F2P conversions/games is "Where do you draw the line on spending?" If some people are paying $1000 per month to become a god, yes it is great that you are getting that $1k BUT everybody else gets turned off. The most effective price - point from a players point of view is 2x that of a normal subscription gets you everything except cosmetic items. The most effective price-point from a server point of view is unfortunately somewhat higher.
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At any rate where it gives the best second legs to a game is one with a PvP focus where lowbie areas are dead or you are dead -- your pick -- on a normal server.