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EverQuest II: Looking at EQII Extended
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Everquest II Extended, the free to play version of the game, has been up and running for awhile now. MMORPG.com's Phil James takes a look at Everquest II Extended and gives his first impressions of his journey through the F2P version. See what Phil found that was helpful and those things that might hinder one's experiences. Have you played EQ2 Extended? Let us know what you've experienced on our forums.
My first impressions are that the Extended server has the MM part of MMO down perfectly. The beginners’ areas are bustling and the chat channel is busy. One of the drawbacks of playing for free, or Bronze Membership as it’s known, is that you can’t join in with the world chat channels. For the most part this isn’t really a bad thing. The only time I was tempted to type anything was to comment on another player’s wonderfully dumb opinions. Anyone who plays any game knows that chat can vary from the heights of geek-chic to the depths of Barrens Chat. I decided that it wasn’t worth forking out some of my own cash to call someone out for being an asshat.
Read more Looking at EQII Extended.
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Comments
I was somewhat disappointed with the market system they chose.
It just seams like you can’t really open up the game with RL enough to really enjoy it unless you simply sub.
It’s not a system axed towards “Let’s make money while they play for free”
It’s more of a “Let’s let them spend while forcing them into a sub”
For those who’ve plaid lotro_f2p you’ll know exactly what I mean.
Perhaps in time they will segment the purchasable items.
Good article Phil.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Well they did announce the POTBS was gong free to play. However that seams to have been shut down. No more talk about it. Vanguard will never go.
EQ2 Extended is on one server, I thought it was going to be 3 or 4. However SOE is hiring a P&L Expert. That should tell you something, there going to be looking hard at the books.
I got a feeling this free to play model is going belly up. You just don't hire a P&L expert unless you got major problems.
ultimately there is no way to play the whole game without going month to month. You cannot get the whole game by way of 1 time paid DLC or by only using the cash shop. Basically the game fuses the worst of both models. Some free to play games allow you to play the whole game but slowly or at a marginal disadvantage. Perfect World is like this. There is no restrictions on what races, classes, zones or levels you can play in that game though it can be inconvienient to never spend any money. But also, are never forced into paying an on going fee for anything. Everything is sold 1 off.
EQ2X is different though. There is nothing wrong with using a "free to start" model that encourages you to upgrade to the pay to play model in order to access the full game, but in EQ2X's case, when you upgrade to the full deal, you are stuck in a game that is still essentially the a free to play cash shop game. YOU GET TO PAY A SUB FEE TO PLAY A FREE TO PLAY GAME! I guess this might also be fine if it was only an option that got you something extra but the only way to get a full stable of 7 (or more) character slots and get to play the latest expansion is to have to pay that monthly fee.
I think Sony is going to fail hard on this one once people start to realize what they get or rather get stuck with for a gold membership. The deal really is much worst than going with EQ2 Live, except you have to abandon your character in order to "upgrade" to live.
Make the Live game free to start, give it the bronze and silver levels of membership as a way to get people playing it. Then, on separate servers, offer a version that pays for itself though a full on, game impacting cash shop. Allow people to play the whole game for free but allow them the buy conveniences and competetive advantage though the cash shop.
Free to play a crippled game that you buy in parts should be kept separate from free to play but with a cash shop game.
All die, so die well.
I've had an eq2 sub pretty much since release with a few breaks here and there. I tried EQ2X on one of those breaks and was appalled at how crippled it was. Most classes and races are locked, and you can't do much in game without spending money. On the other hand, I tried LorR again once it went free and was pleasantly unrestricted for the most part. I even went out and bought 2 copies of Moria.
SOE needs to look at Turbine's success. I used to not hate SOE for the most part - at least when it came to EQ2. But the last year has felt like they're focused more on money grabs than improving and evolving the game. I guess it was inevitable though...
Vanguard - had loads of potential but no interest from SOE to flesh it out.
SWG - The Indiana Jones episode of South Park comes to mind...
EQ - Like grandpa in the nursing home. Everyone loves him, but no one wants to go visit him anymore, even though he continually gets new expansions in an effort to stay cool. All he ever talks about are the good old days and we're all just waiting for him to die any day now.
EQ2 - Getting on in years but still manages to maintain some degree of fun. He's having his midlife crisis right now and might even be on the verge of retirement in a few years. He desperately needs money for his fancy car, yacht, and a mistress. What he doesn't realize is that in his money grab, he's neglecting the people that loved and supported him since he released.
this F2P system is strange. they force you to sub, because the silver and gold-membership is just too restricted and designed in a very strange way. it seems they dont want to make money from the free-players. they also dont use the F2P system to revive their old servers. it really seems SOE understands F2P just as an extended trial and not as the better cash-cow.
the only advantage over the F2P-model of Lotro i can see is, that you get all the content for free. well, even this is relative. you cant compete in this content, i doubt you even can survive with these restrictions. actually i would happily pay for a quest-package if they would just let me buy more backpack-slots in the cash-shop. but no, all they want is enforcing me to subscribe.
however, i enjoyed happy questing a few days lately. but after all, its still just EQ2. one of the better theme-parks out there, but still not my way of gaming.
btw, how could you ever call any experience in an instanced dungeon old-school?
there is no old-school experience in non-persistent dungeons. it is simply impossible!
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
I have played EQ2 off and on depending on my availability to play and monitary options. Now I play EQ2X and I love it. Even with the restrictions. When I want the extra's I can put some money into it. When I don't have it. Or when I would not have the time to play a whole month. I don't have to put money into it, but can still play on through.
I was afraid they would make this game like some of the other F2P where if you pay money you can boost yourself indefinately till you reach the top. But they didn't and I am happy about that. Instead, purchasing is more of a fluff, or convienence and that is great. Even on the free parts, you can play, and enjoy just about everything and even level way up.
So I feel it was a good move.
The classes and Races that are locked can be opened with a store purchase now. This was changed, and I expect other things to change over time.
sorry, but i have to disagree here. this is exactly what you cannot do! the most important things, are not for sale. you have to subscribe or play on a very low level. try to be a crafter with max 3 backpacks and no auction house (you can "rent" limited access afaik, but thats expensive). just an example. i am not talking about endgame. this is impossible anyways without legendary and masterspells and such. i am just talking about the normal virtual life of a casual. you cant do it, without subscription, because you cant buy the important things. they are not available in the cash-shop.
ok, they got now classes in the shop, which was not available in beta. perhaps they will open the cash-shop even more. to let F2P-players buy and pay. a few weeks ago, when i tested it, these idiots did not let me buy.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
SOE created one of the most annoying f2p models that I've seen. Not being able to use the broker without paying real money is a show stopper for me. I tried it for a while, but the broker, limited bags and the constant nag to upgrade was just too annoying.
The LOTRO model is far superior and is what I'm playing now.
Silver just got a 4th bag and character slot added to it.
Silver members can purchase all they want from broker as well they changed it lik 3 weeks ago so if you really enjoy the game buy silver membership for 10bucks and be happy!
SoE had the balls to try something new. Lotro style would have to have been more profitable since there is little incentive for a casual eq2x player to spend a dime past the $10 for silver. Bottom line is, both games you are better off just subbing if you are going to spend some serious time in them. If you are looking at something to tide you over til a new game or a new expansion then both do their job just fine.
The amount of content accessible (as in can actually be utilized) for silver eq2x members is probably as big as the amount of content in WoW and fully unlocked Lotro combined. You just have to get used to seeing gear you cant use, but dont in any way shape or form need (there are PLENTY of raids available for silver members that would be challenging but doable)
Also keep in mind that 3 of eq2s best bags is about the same space as max level WoW with their highest bags.
Again with the bag space complaint. I was playing my level 77 toon on EQ2live and after a full nights worth of questing and gathering I was barely into my 4th bag, and thats with crap in there I hadnt bothered to clean out before setting out. Now on eq2x server the 44 slot bags arent going to be easily available,but Im sure you can get a set of 30ish slotters made for cheap if you attempt to be social. EQ2 is a very friendly community.
And 'endgame' is completely possible. The endgame is just a lower tier. There is so much raid content you can ALWAYS find a raid to be the right challenge for your abilities. ALWAYS. There are bronze/silver only guilds that will be doing this stuff.
Basically, if you want to play EQ II try the free version first, if you like it, subscribe to the normal servers and hope others are doing so. Spending money on anything on the f2p servers is just braindead the way SOE has structured it.
Worst f2p design in the business, bar none.
Soe did not have the balls to do something new. They are very much jumping on the bandwagon along with a ton of other developers.
Not only are they following the trend, but they ignored much of what has already proven to work and also what players have say they like or do not like.
Just to illustrate what I am referencing read this.
"I'm not really sure why people are complaining, because the more I do an analysis of it, I can't see anything that's more restrictive about our matrix than a lot of people's, and in a lot of ways it seems less restrictive." -Dave Georgeson, EQ2 producer. LINK
People are complaining about the system, but his answer is "I looked at our system and it is better, I don't understand why players are complaining.".
He also talks about how new players are not going to feel the restrictions, but that is pretty much the general consensus from new players and why people are leaving. Whatever soe says their intention were with the restrictions and how players would view it, it obviously isn't working. There is a huge disconnect between soe managment and players and perhaps the reason why eq2x only has 1 server while their competition is getting into the millions with theirs.
Do people REALLY believe this? Seriously? I feel bad for SoE, player ignorance really hurts them.
Forget EQ2Live exists. Now go play EQ2X Perfect World, Runes of Magic, Allods, and even LOTRO. Give yourself, say, $20 to enjoy these games over a couple of months. See which game gives you the most bang for the buck.
I just dont understand people talking about gold and platinum memberships when discussing the f2p part of EQ2x.
And the main reason SoE doesnt let players transfer from Extended to Live is the Live people would complain about the item shop bought stuff. Im betting sometime in the next sixth months they will make extended to live transfers but will do so naked with very little plat because its the only way they could do it.
If SoE truly wanted to make the most money possible they could have done the lotro model. Would people have really preferred $5 to do content in Zek, $7 for lavastorm, and $10 for Kylong Plains/Karnor's Castle? Or having to spend hours and hours grinding to unlock them as opposed to having them all available for free with no effort...
Its an experiment, maybe it works, maybe it fails. But from the perspective of someone who truly does not plan on spending subscription level funds its an EXTREMELY generous system.
Except the producer is right. EQ2s matrix in theory blows LOTROs out of the water. The valid comparison is silver vs premium.
Races/Classes: this is a toss up. EQ2 has more classes and same number of races as lotro. However a couple of the eq2 classes play very similar to each other. But you can unlock MUCH more with EQ2.
Bag slots: same, but EQ2 has significantly bigger bags available. As well as better bank options.
Gold limit: Lotros is more severe
Lotro limits chat and mail, eq2 does not
Lotros rest experience/viatlity is NOT available
character slots are the same, both have purchasable slots
auction house is the same, both can buy but not sell with purchasable options to sell
THE BIG NEGATIVE FOR EQ2: restricted to MC gear/expert spells. HOWEVER these are quite powerful from 1-79 and the only reason people feel the restriction is because they can see the better stuff drop. Having all legendaries/masters would basically let you do content a level or two earlier.
NOTE: unless they changed it you can spend 5 bucks, go to gold for 3 days, and scribe master spells. they stay scribed after you go back to silver.
LOTRO does limit you with traits as well. Ive never gotten far enough into LOTRO to see waht this would impact down the road.
THE HUGE POSITIVE FOR EQ2: All content except the current expansion is available 100% free. When the next expansion hits, the prior one will open up. LOTRO makes you pay for every single piece of content past level 20.
Funny thing is, the server would probably be more popular if gold and platinum didnt exist and they did something like sell attuning stones for 2 bucks each to allow you to attune a legendary/fabled to you. They painted themselves into a tricky corner by not wanting charges for too many things so people would call them greedy, but they needed to ensure the health of their live servers (hence why gold is slightly better on p2p servers and platinum is more expensive, but gives more)
Hi All,
I wonder why SOE offers the "Gold Tier" membership for EQ2X at the same price point of "EQ2 Live"? In EQ2 Live at the regular monthly subscription price you get the whole shebang without any restrictions. (at $14.99 or so) True you would have to buy all the expansions and action packs already available in EQ2X.
SOE, would be better served by adjusting the price point of the "Gold Tier" to $9.99 a month. Because believe it or not this game is already 6 years old. With many other MMO's that are F2P that are fast catching up in quality. If a "Gold Tier" membership at $9.99 US a month with a couple limitations. Wouldn't crimp the style of those on the "EQ2 Live" servers from crying foul.
That makes more sense to me but i'm no one special. Heck i'm just a SOE customer since 1999.
----------------------
The Older Gamers
This isn't about theory. This is a classic case of the customer being right and management not understanding it. Perhaps, because they designed their entire system behind closed doors with their "theory" instead of involving the players from the start. Instead of designing something players will want, they designed something to maximize revenues.
It doesn't matter that each game offers 4 races, a similar number of classes and things of that nature. It isn't a numbers game like that, but rather what ISN'T available.
EQ2 offers a small choice of their total races, classes, etc while lotro offers almost all of them. The same for auction houses, community chat (open to f2p lotro players) and then items, spells, tradeskills and rewards. Nothing will kick a player in the teeth more than completing some encounter or quest and being given something they cannot use without subscribing.
EQ2X isn't free to play as most would expect, it is just an extended trial that restricts many things from players until they subscribe as that is really the only option to remove the barriers placed on the game. It really is just an "experiment" to create a full blown cash shop in a subscription game trying to disguise itself as a real free to play game. That is why people don't like it and more enjoy the offering from turbine. That is why the producer doesn't understand why people are complaining about eq2x and praising other games.
Any valid point you may make is thrown out the window by saying they are trying to 'create a full blown cash shop'. If they wanted to create a full blown cash shop they could have. They could have made eq2x like other games where for example there are no in game mount. They could charge for housing (and EQ2s housing system is good enough they could get away with charging rl money for a place). And yes, they could charge you for the content like LOTRO does. They don't.
They actually made the cash shop into something you really dont notice is there. Sure, some people probably buy the armor or rares and some buy the extra races and classes, but there isnt the day to day dependency on the cash shop that most f2ps have.
And you suggest they should have listened to their players...They did. Current players do NOT want people that can buy stuff on their servers. Current players do NOT want to have their existence threatened by EQ2X. That is why it is on its own server. That is why gold offers slightly less than the same cost on live servers. The ONLY difference is the number of races. So its not like its some abomination of a service as people make it out to be. I believe the races are $7.50 for a set of 3, so its not like they are insanely expensive. But there is enough incentive NOT to switch from live -> extended. And they continue to listen to players. Silver benefits have increased since the start (more bag slots, more broker access) at no extra cost.
I still think the best way for them to move forward would be to use an old school f2p trick, make people pay for attuning tokens so they could wear the Legendary gear. The smart way would be to make a daily quest of sorts which would award you with 1/4 of a token or so. So you could attune a new piece of gear or spell every 4 days for free, and sell the full tokens for a buck each. Do that and give silver one broker slot (40+ items) for selling and youd address most of the big concerns from the people who dont want a sub.
I personally think EQ2s system is way better than Turbines, even as is. But then I also am the type that if I am going to get that into a game, Id sub anyway. I would rather get a piece of gear i cant use then go to a town full of people with quests that i cant get. Content > gear to me, but i realize for many gear = content. Time will tell if SoE addresses those people or not, but its way too early to assume they wont.
And about the LOTRO system...I bought the game and subscribed for several months...put well over $100 into it. I have very little to show for it. I have to shell out another 50 bucks or so just to get back the content. Someone starting today can buy the content with the same 50 bucks. Well, I already spent that 50 bucks when i bought the box of the game. But now Id have to respend it.
Its also kind of funny how you have to be a subscriber to take a horse form one side of Bree to the other. I tried LOTRO free but all I got was 'buy this' 'buy that' moments like that.
Drawn out of lurking to add my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
A lot of people will dislike EQ2's f2p model, and that is fine. After experiencing a few MMO's, both western and eastern, and the models they use to coerce you to pay/sub, I believe that EQ2 has one of the most generous systems for a completely free player.
In other MMO's, the coercion typically comes from restricted content, or slowed leveling. EQ2 is easily the most content-rich F2P, and has no direct impediments to leveling, unless you care to argue up smaller quest logs, bag space, and slightly weaker spells - I personally do not make the same argument.
The complaint a lot of people are making stems from the controversy of having an F2P system that hinges on paying for loot. In both PvE and PvP, this is something you can rapidly level out of and deal with until the level cap, at which point I find it highly dubious that cash shop goodies can compare to acquired loot.
In summary, EQ2's model is restrictive regarding items, but generous in content. I place greater value in the latter, and disagree with the opinions of others who refuse to oblige minor workarounds in order to play a game for free.
I prefer the possibility to shift from F2P to Subs and back to F2P that LotRO gives me, depending how much free time/money i have to play on each month, because i can still play without being severelly gimped while i farm some Deeds (which unlocks more powerfull traits for my char) to unlock more content on my "down times".
EQ2X doesn't work like that... even Subbed, it's not the same as the Live accounts and u can't remove that permanent "gimpiness"... and good luck farming in-game store cash.
To me EQ2X seems more like an "experiment" or a rushed implementation of the F2P model... but thats just my opinion...