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U.S. Supreme Court and Gaming, possible attack?
SimperFi
Member Posts: 108
Hello everyone, for those of you who don't know what's been going on here in the U.S. let me give some info and a link and we'll get a good discussion going.
The U.S. Supreme Court is hearing a bill on the 18th of November this year (tomorrow as of this typing) that will give them the power (at the behest of the media corporations) to completely and utterly destroy websites they deem "inappropriate". All someone has to do is complain and the website is completely removed from access for the entire nation. Some even say that the U.S. government will try to find where the website is hosted and shut it down physically even if outside the country.
Now of course we all know about "Piracy" and how horrible it is that the music industry likes to file suites against mothers of 3 for 1 song. Those suits going up into the MILLIONS of dollars. However, let's take a look at the effect of this on gaming and then we can hear everyone's opinions on this.
Gaming is a big business in most 1st world nations. That's an understatement but let's go with it. Now we all know about Call of Duty and those fabulous EA games that come out the same day as some big blockbuster movie. Obviously there are profits to be made there. "Pirating" those games would not be very nice we know this. I mean, a game that makes millions of sales on the first day of release alone would clearly suffer if a couple poor people decide to download it.
But let's step away from that a moment. I'm not here to defend any one website, nor to excuse the tyranical actions of the U.S. government and corporations. However many of you may know a lot of games that are no longer in production. Games from the 90's or games from companies that no longer exist and can't be found in stores. Those will suffer too. Many Independent artists use these sites for their own music distribution, so they should suffer as well?
Youtube is also on the government/coprorations' shitlist. We all have used Youtube to post videos advertising our calns/guilds or to promote some in-game event or just for funny videos. It's a strong possibility that Youtube will now be blocked, because they no longer have the right to prove their own innocence. They will be immediately shutdown without a trial or any form of due process.
Keep in mind that this is ANY website the government wants to eliminate. This website we are on now could be taken down if the U.S. government orders it. So gaming could very well fall victim to this if people don't speak up.
Thus, this coming bill tomorrow is in clear violation of both the U.S. Constitution as well as common sense. It's called COICA. I will provide a link at the bottom. Share your thoughts in this thread and maybe write to your senators if you're in the U.S.
Remember, this affects gaming on all levels. Lawful advertisement, clan promotions, obscure games that are still fun, etc. Also, please bare in mind that even if you don't agree with what I've typed above you will be affected. I'm not a fanatic or ant-government but I AM a concerned citizen. This could very well be a step in a direction the United States was founded to stand against. We will all likely suffer if this bill is passed and we could see a great deal more bills like it involving all other facets of society. I don't care if you agree with me, what color you are, where you come from or what you represent. Common Sense goes beyond these things and if we abandon common sense for complacency, we may as well give up our lives. So, if you're a U.S. citizen, I emplore you to read carefully, study and learn about what this government is doing at the orders of these companies. If you are able, it's strongly advised to write your respective senators and Congressmen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-segal/stop-the-internet-blackli_b_739836.html
Comments
Sounds like the U.S is still trying to take over the world. Now i'm British born and bread from a very long line leading back to early 19th century before anyone starts to think anything else. Websites hosted outside the U.S are the responcibility of their own country to govern, if the U.S thinks it can dictate it's actions and beliefs on others then it makes the U.S very much the same as the Terrorists who try to impose their religeon and beliefs on others through their actions.
Now this site me be based in the U.S and i may get banned from this site for saying this but the U.S Government can kiss my fat hairy arse if it continues to think it rules the world. just remember where you came from, colonials from various parts of the world, the only true american people are the Native Indians that got screwed over by the U.S government.
Flame away colonials...
I say they need to butt the fuck out. Honestly, I don't want big brother all over the internet telling me what I can and cannot do.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Yea, enjoy your speed cameras, intrusive government, extreme gun control, high taxes on everything especially petrol, and all the cameras on every street corner in london, as well as constant police patrols. All that stuff, doesn't exist in america. Why? Rednecks.
Rednecks have guns and so does everyone in the states. So if the government gets too in our face about stuff it's our constitutional right to bear arms against our own government. Which is nifty actually! It keeps the power in the peoples hands so to speak.
Now, when you commit a crime in the UK they don't chase you down, no no, they come in through your front door at night and arrest you. So you enjoy the UK, and I'll enjoy my privacy and guns.
But no, this is going to hit the supreme court and get ruled out probably the same day.
Ah the good old US, the country that is as good as if not totaly Broke and turning into a 2th USSR meltdown.
I feel sorry for you guys and gals over there, so many diferent sily laws that they have no way of policing. shutdown youtube? hehe I wana see how thats gona happen. I believe the right to say what you think is still the underlaying tought atm in the US.
anyway, duno mutch about all those sily laws you got over there. I just know that -I- can legaly download anyting from books to movies and music to games. In The Netherlands its all compleetly legal aslong its for own use. this means you do no upload shit but if you download it for some UK,France,Us,China,Russian wereever its located server its Legal to use.
They dont punish the downloaders here, they shutdown and bill the Uploaders of copyright materials.
As the UK fellow said.
Flame away colonials.
My government pisses me off to no end. I can't wait until the time when these the citizens in the nation get a clue and kick all these over-powered, over-indulged, over-privileged, corrupt jack-asses out of office.
Sincerely,
-U.S. Citizen
The US supreme Court doesnt hear bills. It will be heard in a Senate Committe.
The Congress which includes the house and the senate is the legislative branch...meaning they make laws.
The SupremeCourt is part of the judicial branch which means they enforce laws including the constitution so if a case hits them it is due to the constitutionality of it in regards to the legislative process.
That bill is written to protect the film and recording industry.
Without any care of how it could be used facetiously, call Senator Leahy the sponsor of the bill and let your voice be heard
1-202-224-4242
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
just to clarify the highlighted part.. what happens if someone bears arms against your ruling government? there is no takeover or anything else, the said person is shot dead or arrested and then giving death penalty.. so much for your piece of paper, it's not worth the security costs used to protect it.
This.
Supreme Court only comes into play if the law is unconstitutional.
Understandable but even if the bill is passed, it can be repealed for being against the constitution. So even if the twats in congress don't understand, you know, the constitution, then we're still safe ^_^.
Guys, this isn't an anti-American post. This is a serious post about a serious issue. If you're not here to discuss it, walk away. Let's stay on topic please.
As to everyone else thank you for your support and to Lectro for correcting my mistake in wordage. We need to protect our rights as human beings. Let's not start a lot of in-fighting. It does no one any good.
Now, as for those who say "it won't pass" or "it will be repealed". I like that idea, but we would be better off making sure it doesn't get that far. If we head it off now, the government will see we clearly don't want this. When they see how strongly we feel about it as a nation, they'll likely refuse any more bills like it.
If the populous unilaterally revolts across several fronts, then an impeachment process begins, and we call in the national guard (people from the same state to protect their state) to prevent random looting and killing, of course.
So not really SOMEONE but if enough people revolt or rebel against the government, then yes, it gets overturned. Several of Bush's EOs have already been overturned by our judicial branch without a shot needing to be fired. This would only be the case if something was EXTREME.
We also have several Militia battalions setup here as well, comprised of ex-military that exist specifically for that purpose.
"95 Candidates Who Pledged Support For Net Neutrality Lost On Tuesday"
America wanted it this way...
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/all-95-candidates-who-pledged-support-for-net-neutrality-lost-on-tuesday.php?ref=tn
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
This isn't the first time this has happened. Fortunately the system works, and it's been shot down numerous times.
I remember hearing stories about how they wanted to privatize the internet (read this on nuklearpower.com so take it as far as you want) and make websites controlled by the communications companies.
It's not going to happen. Just media bigwigs throwing a fit trying to get more attention as to garner some sympathy for the trials they're going through and maybe one day the government will give them some money when they go bankrupt (please...)
Played: Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Lineage 2, Shaiya, Eve Online, Guild Wars, Age of Conan *breathe*... I hope that's all.
Net neutrality wasn't killed, just the house representatives that supported it didn't make the election cut. Which is 100% dependent on the peoples votes, so yea. Way to go idiots!
Technically, the Executive is the enforcement branch, and the Judiciary merely is in charge of interpreting the constitution. The only reason that the Supreme Court gets to review legislative acts of Congress is due to judicial review, which is not technically included within the Judiciaries powers in the constitution, but is rather a product of Marbury v. Madison. (debate on the validity of the supreme court determining the supreme courts own authority is for another time). Just thought I would point this distinction out, although I realize in a sense I'm merely playing word games (but it's a forum right?).
If you want to actually read the bill that is being proposed go here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3804
The first thing to notice is the 2 list system:
1 mandatory list, which providers must comply with, and the domains are put on the list through a court order.
1 recommended list, which providers may comply with in exchange for a measure of immunity from the federal government (this list is created by the Attorney General, based on his own reasonable idea of what domain is in violation)
The second thing to notice is the definition of what domains are being targeted:
The definition given in § 2324(a)(2) states what a site "dedicated to infringing activities" is. What is noticable is that so long as the site has some demonstrable commercial use other than selling/publishing copywritten materials, and the operator of the site does not market it as a place to buy/view copywritten materials; then the site will not qualify to be shut down by the definition of this bill.
I trust most courts to interpret this in a conservative sense, although I realize some Districts are more conservative than others. If this definition is interpreted narrowly, as it should be, then the only sites affected by this should be those who are almost solely made for selling/trading copywritten materials, which, unless you are in the business of violating copyright law, should not actually affect your daily life.
What I do not trust is the Attorney General to make a determination of what meets the requirements of this bill for the secondary list. I believe that the recommended list will be just as influential with providers as the mandatory list. So while I think it may pose less of a sweeping problem than the OP seems to think, I still do not support the bill. I believe the Attorney General will not make conservative or moderated decisions as to what to put on the secondary list.
To be honest, I believe the Supreme Court would not view this as a prima facie violation of the 1st Amendment for the same reason that preventing sales of illegal narcotics online is prohibited.
Like it or not, publishing copywritten materials without authorization is illegal, Congress has said so. This bill will fall under "necessary and proper" to accomplishing the prevention of illegal activities.
To link back to what I have said previously, I believe courts will interpret the definition in § 2324(a)(2) narrowly, since, while not a prima facie violation of the 1st amendment, there is certainly potential for this bill to be enforced in a manner inconsistent with the 1st amendment. Courts generally try to read bills in a manner consistent with the Constitution if at all possible, and in this case I believe it is possible.
Okay, that was a long post. But just so it is clear, I do oppose this bill, but I think it is important to take a logical and reasoned approach to how you view this law, rather than merely opposing it for what you think it says, and your emotional gut reaction.
LOL wish them well how fbi and cia and other nations instances cannot do without the internet , nice idea hard to implement.
Sorry , honestly 10% of the net belongs to the hackers and warez zone . attack those you dont have a infrastructure left soon.
Sorry US governement wants the same system China has as internet , with censor ship closed gateways and everything .
then they could implement what they want .
But sadly there infrastructure isn´t there , too many holes and loop way .
Anyway its funny i wish them luck in passing that bill and see how they implement it .
They just want a way to shut down wowiki leaks and al quade sites and other stuff .
But let see how fast they hit the wrong zones , and totally are bereft of there high tech net .
So they beter start making there intranet first , before trying to pass a bill like that .
I'm glad someone actually looked at the bill and posted a thoughtful response. Your post was much more informative than the OP's: "If anyone complains about a website it will be shutdown...."
Steam: Neph
Clueless. Out of all the things they are doing you think this is a problem? Its not about gaming nor pirating.
Thank you. I thought the op's post was a bit over the top in the assessment that "all one has t do is complain..."
I like the idea of the bill but do agree that it depends on the interpretation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What? You didn't like the "It r want US to rulez da world , yay other countries" posts?
There have been numerous attempts to moderate the U.S. internet usage and time after time they have been turned back in cases where no illegal activity was noted.
Well, at least I know now everytime I run into an idiot over here in the U.S. I can just say that's the English in them.
Sounds like China.... I think if they ban websites, pirating will get bigger... hell people who have money buy retail, people who dont pirate. The people who do not have money, could not have bought the product in the first place.
Heck if anything they should block fox news =P
You guys are funny. I know making fun of America is fun and all, but most of you are coming off as idiots. Just because something is going before the Supreme Court does not automatically mean it's going to pass, yet half of you are going off like it's definitely going to happen. It's not like, you know, the Supreme Court recently heard:
http://venturebeat.com/2010/11/02/supreme-court-transcripts-show-where-the-witty-justices-stand-on-the-video-game-violence-case/
Considering their ruling on that case, do you honestly think this is going to be any different?
EDIT: Read the snippets of transcript. I know some of you might have difficulty focusing on the words due to your anti-America rage, but there's some good stuff in there.
Originally posted by geldonyetich
Wow, I knew you guys were pretty desparate to slam the game, but hacking the web page of a major game site so a user review masquarades as an official one? Pretty impressive.
[Edit: no, after seeing there's an actual video associated with it, I guess not, despite the wierd way GameSpot distributes its content making it looks like the reviewer didn't even write this.]
Yes please shut all servers spreading anything. How else will the poor musicians and actors keep up their 20 houses.....
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
This thread is going nowhere, I've only seen like two posts that had any researched and accurate information in them or reasonable discussion, the rest has been pure hyperbole and ignorance.
All I have to say is:
"Any society that is willing to trade away a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and will lose them both" ~Ben Franklin.