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Why Pirating IS leading to the demise of quality PC games

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  • kobietrumankobietruman Member Posts: 105

    a better title

    Why Ridiculous DRM/Copy Protection Is Pushing Regular Customers To Pirate Sites

    image

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407

    Well if console is the way things are going I guess all those people who have two Xbox consoles one connected to the internet and the other to play pirated games don't really care. Meanwhile the PC players will get shafted oh well if they gave me keyboard and mouse control on a console I will buy console games every month. 

     

    I like to play with a keyboard and mouse . That is all I ask someone to please develop this for me to play games on the console. I hate the way fable 2 controls on the Xbox but I had no choice but to play it there.

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  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    The concept that piracy is leading to the "demise" of PC gaming is still an extremely flawed premise. Even if every single person who regularly pirates software stopped tommorow, completely ending piracy, it wouldn't have anyt positive effect at all. The people who pirate were either never willing to nor intending to purchase said software in the first place, or they were pirating to "demo" the game to see if it was worth spending the money on. Stopping piracy would not miraculously cause these people to purchase said software, they would simply go without.

    I'm not defending piracy, but I'm sick and tired of developers using piracy as a scapegoat for poor sales, when the real cause is that they're overpricing their product, making a poor quality product, or both. It's the exact same reason why piracy happens in the music and movie industries, and low and behold, the movie and music industries also use piracy as a scapegoat for poor sales.

  • ErstokErstok Member Posts: 523

    Even pirates say if you enjoy the product buy it.

    Main reason they pirate things is they are tired of consumers in general being treated like dirt by companies. If companies spent less time trying to do crap like DRM's and such on their own consumers, people would probably buy the products more then pirate them.

    Look back in the day when things like NES were around. People bought those games for the consoles. Why? Was none of this copy protection and crap that we have today and majority of the games made back then were actually good.

    image
    When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?

  • dragonbranddragonbrand Member UncommonPosts: 441

    Originally posted by Shinami

    I just read that article. 

     

    The law in the United States (and in many nations) is "One can download and execute any file on the internet, but may not intentionally distribute copyrighted material in any form" 

     

    snip

     This is not the law. Copyright laws protect the owner's rights of his property. If you download something from the internet that is in fact distribution and transmission. If you use something you ahve downloaded its performance. All of this activity is illegal unless the owner of the material expressly and explicitly allows others to use their material without paying for it.

    Link provided so that the facts can be verified and speculation and rampant misinformation can be disregarded.

    Copyright is a form of legal protection provided by United States law (Title 17 U.S. Code) that protects an owner's right to control the reproduction, distribution, performance, display and transmission of a copyrighted work.

    Any activity that violates these protections, such as downloading and/or sharing copyrighted works without the owner's explicit permission, is in violation of United State law.

    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

    Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.

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  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by dragonbrand

    Originally posted by Shinami

    I just read that article. 

     

    The law in the United States (and in many nations) is "One can download and execute any file on the internet, but may not intentionally distribute copyrighted material in any form" 

     

    snip

     This is not the law. Copyright laws protect the owner's rights of his property. If you download something from the internet that is in fact distribution and transmission. If you use something you ahve downloaded its performance. All of this activity is illegal unless the owner of the material expressly and explicitly allows others to use their material without paying for it.

    Link provided so that the facts can be verified and speculation and rampant misinformation can be disregarded.

    Copyright is a form of legal protection provided by United States law (Title 17 U.S. Code) that protects an owner's right to control the reproduction, distribution, performance, display and transmission of a copyrighted work.

    Any activity that violates these protections, such as downloading and/or sharing copyrighted works without the owner's explicit permission, is in violation of United State law.

    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

    Unless it falls under fair use...

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by GamerAeon

    Sony and Ubisoft especially

    Worst DRMs ever.

    Not to defend their DRM but Just for the record, Ubisoft has been gathering data for a few of their games since like 2+ years ago, before implementing DRM

     

    They found out that out of all installed and "tagged" PC games that were allowed to report data, thus not blocked by firewalls, up to 95% were pirated versions. If I remember well the least pirated game score was around 80%.

     

    Add to that the fact that an AAA game like Assassin's Creed costs around 40-50 millions to develop.

     

    Truly, making anything else than online games on PC is like shooting ourself in the foot. And in this case the DRM is very efficient as it's obliging you to play on their protected servers.

    If I have to publish a game both on consoles and PC I would make sure to first launch it on console, then at least 6 months later eventually make it available on PC.

     

     

    => That being said, actually what's missing on consoles to really kill the gaming PC is an official mouse and keyboard support.

    We all know FPS game play is different on PC and console. The AI is lower and aiming smoothen out in the later.

    Now would you make FPS and propose either PC like or console game play on the same game in a console DVD, milions of players wouldn't anymore upgrade their PC and play on a console.

     

    The official mouse and keyboard support would allow any kind of games to be ported to the consoles, event RTS like Starcraft II.

     

    However, even with mouse and keyboard support, until game developers allow 2 more things the gaming PC won't die.

     

    The first being allowing players to remap buttons to their liking.

    Being obliged to play the way the developer wanted (on consoles) versus the way you are used to, is a no no for a PC gamer. No big deal though it's really easy to add in any game.

     

    The second and much more difficult one would be allowing player made content and UI (especially for RPG).

    Let's take Oblivion as example. Just look at the massive content that you are forbidding you to access if you buy the console version.

  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

    I don't believe it. Why are companies spending more money than ever on development? Are you saying they are intentionally spending all this money on crappy games?

    Consoles took over, because computers have lost the marketing war. Also computers are about 5 times of the price of the most expensive console. Piracy has little to do with it. No, I'm totally against it, so keep your accusations in your tiny mind.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407

    Once we all switch to Console won't people stop upgrading as regularly as now their PCs and won't that affect the Video card manufacturers and PC market. Aren't rabid PC gamers an important slice of the market. So not only the game market that will be affected but  a small avalanche of other manufacturers and developers will also fall prey too.

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by bcrankshaw

    I encourage people who care about the fact that nowadays most PC games seem less complex or just bad ports from console ,to read this article

    It is brilliantly written and articulates exactly why Pirating is so destructive to single player PC games

    It is long and I know most people won’t bother ...but take 40 minutes to go through it. It is both scary and illuminating

    It addresses every single excuse I’ve heard about why people Pirate

     

    http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

     

     

    People just dont get it. 

    Lets make one thing absolutely clear. USED GAME SALES ARE WORSE THAN PIRATING.

    So with this FACT present, how does one lead to the supposed "demise" of PC games where as the used game saturated market of Consoles remains untouched?

    The Console World has both piracy and used game sales. If loss of revenue was the sole reasoning behind going from one medium to another, then PC gaming should becoming MORE popular as it doesnt have a USED game market.

    One thing you need to understand, is that pirates are not customers, even if pirating didnt exist they often wouldnt be customers. One of the greatest fallacies of the anti-piracy argument is that they associate piracy to loss of profit, which is really not always the case. Anyways I can go on to why piracy isnt so black and white as to say its evil vs good, or completely bad for the industry, because its not, but the more important and over looked thing is that used game sales is no different than piracy, only this time an actual paying customer is not paying the publisher/developer for the product, but someone else entirely. People forget EULAs exist.

    If the console gaming world isnt going to die off become of used game sales, then its rational to conclude that high end PC games will not go away either. Dont forget, the cost of making games has gone up and usually to get back the investment, going multiplatform is the way to go. Piracy isnt causing that, accessibility is. 

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    And now for a musical interlude....

    If you really think about the broader implications of Intellectual Property law, you'll realize pretty fucking quickly that there are some really unfortunate side effects. The ruling on the Adobe case actually sets a precedent for the banning of resale on anything, not just media. imagine a world where you couldn't sell your belongings, or give things as gifts, or even buy used. This is the world that IP legislation is inadvertently creating.

  • Clueless069Clueless069 Member Posts: 4

    Originally posted by choujiofkono

       It's amazing the lengths people will go, to justify piracy.  It is even more amazing the lengths they will go, to separate piracy from theft.  Twist semantics all you want, piracy is theft.  No doubt about it.  Theft = criminal.  Piracy = criminal.  Criminal = jail.

         Half the stuff people steal is done without reason... just because it's there to steal.  Same as an alchoholic can't say no to a beer or an addicted gambler will waste away his childrens college fund.  Same thing. 

         It's compounded by the fact that everyone thinks they deserve everything these days.  No, they don't.  They deserve it only if they work for it.  Simple as that. 

    Legally, they are different. But it's much easier to lump them together (and a few unrelated metaphors to boot) to benefit your cause than to actually think.

     

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,246

    I don't think piracy is the reason why there's not as much quality PC games.

    It's just the devs moving towards the $$$ of consoles.  Period.  This was apparent years ago (I'm willing to say around 2000-2001).  Dev teams that once made their name on the PC went over to console development.  Even some of the old PC gaming franchises that called the PC home sold out for the consoles.  Rainbow Six and Call of Duty come to mind.  The big easy money was on the consoles.

    That's that.

    There's not as many titles on the PC these days compared to, say, the late 90s.  But the overall quality is, IMO, just about the same.  Some good ones, some trashy ones.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • Ralphie2449Ralphie2449 Member UncommonPosts: 577

    Stupidity kills pc game quality not piracy

    Stupid people still buy pathetic, copied gameplay games because they have no knowledge of gameplay and are just driven by marketing...

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,402

    Originally posted by centkin

    Piracy is practically dead -- it will die in the same way that the selling of old games will die -- through licensing.

    You buy a used EA game -- you cant do a lot in it until you get a code.  This code costs almost as much as a 2 year old used game has value.

    There will come a time when you get a code and the software -- the code is the important part because the software will be worthless without it. 

    At first it will be key things that you have to download for your incomplete game to make it workable.  Things like not having a bank in an RPG until you register and use your code online.

    Then it will be a hop skip and a jump to you having to register your code for it to activate your game.  I mean that already happens with operating systems. 

    ---

    When piracy is completely dead and used games can't be sold either, an amazing thing will happen though.  Sales will go down.

     

     

    Spoken like someone who has no idea what he is talking about.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610

    Originally posted by Wolfy2449

    Stupidity kills pc game quality not piracy

    Stupid people still buy pathetic, copied gameplay games because they have no knowledge of gameplay and are just driven by marketing...

     Well, they do say there are more stupid people on this planet than intelligent ones.

    And I'd like someone to name an original gameplay concept. Games are made to be fun, thats all. Not ground braking.

    And yes pirating is effecting the industry, like it effects most industrys.

    image
  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,402

    Originally posted by DanMcC

    Blah, blah.

    Blame humans for using their natural ability to be more.. efficient.

    Pretty much sums it up.

     

    there is a reason why everything is moving to digital distrubution, its called progression. Piracy isnt going anywhere, it has just gotten more efficient, and there are plenty of pirate proof games, they are called MMOs.

     

    Also any game that is worth buying is bought, all there is too it.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw Member Posts: 547

    One more point I need to make

    I am not saying all PC games  are not selling or that the overall  quality of all  PC games has decreased

    Look at MW2 and COD: BO they were extremely successful and reaped huge profits

    I think DRM has to be the future to ensure companies continue to develop quality single player PC games and they make  enough revenue to justify investment in this aspect of gaming e,g PC

    If you are happy with the fact that many companies release the PC version long after the console version(if at all ) or you think Dragon Age was as good a game as Baldurs Gate 2 then this particular article shouldn't apply to you

    For me  the whole concern around Pirating is extremely worrying as the above paragraph does apply to me

    End of the day this discussion becomes very subjective ..but aren't all debates :)

     

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

  • Ralphie2449Ralphie2449 Member UncommonPosts: 577

    ye a 9 to 1 ratio...

    Pirating isnt that affecting, companies keep making crappy games because it works, non-gamers still by them(there are few real gamers). Big overhyped and overmarketed games still sell well even with pirating

    LOL AT cod: bo, its the same game just behind some new skins and some new content and ppl payed 60 for it...

    A noob can find fun in any game as long as there arent any technical problems like crashes or connection issues which makes them angry, gameplay doesnt affect theym, they can have fun everywhere. Real gamers are interested in actually good games with gameplay depth and more innovation, non-gamers just buy whats overhyped and are driven by marketing

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by bcrankshaw

    One more point I need to make

    I am not saying all PC games  are not selling or that the overall  quality of all  PC games has decreased

    Look at MW2 and COD: BO they were extremely successful and reaped huge profits

    I think DRM has to be the future to ensure companies continue to develop quality single player PC games and they make  enough revenue to justify investment in this aspect of gaming e,g PC

    If you are happy with the fact that many companies release the PC version long after the console version(if at all ) or you think Dragon Age was as good a game as Baldurs Gate 2 then this particular article shouldn't apply to you

    For me  the whole concern around Pirating is extremely worrying as the above paragraph does apply to me

    End of the day this discussion becomes very subjective ..but aren't all debates :)

     

    DRM is proving to have the opposite effect. It's driving people who would otherwise pay for said game, away.

    Ubisoft's latest draconian DRM is proof of this. Many people have boycotted their latest games due to it's overly restrictive "constant internet connection" DRM that has a severely negative impact on legitimate gamers. I.e. if Ubisoft's authentication servers go down you can't play the game you bought, or if you have a spotty or no Internet connection you simply can't play the game at all. This has actually encouraged people to acquire pirated copies of said games that are cracked to exclude such restrictive DRM.

    DRM does nothing but hurt the industry.

  • xenogiasxenogias Member Posts: 1,926

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by bcrankshaw

    One more point I need to make

    I am not saying all PC games  are not selling or that the overall  quality of all  PC games has decreased

    Look at MW2 and COD: BO they were extremely successful and reaped huge profits

    I think DRM has to be the future to ensure companies continue to develop quality single player PC games and they make  enough revenue to justify investment in this aspect of gaming e,g PC

    If you are happy with the fact that many companies release the PC version long after the console version(if at all ) or you think Dragon Age was as good a game as Baldurs Gate 2 then this particular article shouldn't apply to you

    For me  the whole concern around Pirating is extremely worrying as the above paragraph does apply to me

    End of the day this discussion becomes very subjective ..but aren't all debates :)

     

    DRM is proving to have the opposite effect. It's driving people who would otherwise pay for said game, away.

    Ubisoft's latest draconian DRM is proof of this. Many people have boycotted their latest games due to it's overly restrictive "constant internet connection" DRM that has a severely negative impact on legitimate gamers. I.e. if Ubisoft's authentication servers go down you can't play the game you bought, or if you have a spotty or no Internet connection you simply can't play the game at all. This has actually encouraged people to acquire pirated copies of said games that are cracked to exclude such restrictive DRM.

    DRM does nothing but hurt the industry.

     Figured I would quote this for how true it is. I dont turn to piracy with games that use DRM I just simply dont buy them or play them.  Personally I would drop 100 bucks for a QUALITY pc game. By quality I mean complete quality including the content to justify a PC games price. I'm sorry but 60 bucks for a few hours of play? I think not. 60 bucks for something the quality of the baulders series or older final fantasy games? Absolutly. 60 bucks for something with half life quality? yup. 60 bucks for something with the quality of black ops? Nope. Might be a good game but for maybe 4-5 hours of single player gameplay? dont think so. If I wasnt against pirating I would get all these games. But I would get them for free. However you give me a high quality game with 10+ hours of gameplay and I will gladly give you my money.

  • terroniterroni Member Posts: 935

    I think it is self evident that piracy is part of the problem with games.

    I also think it isn't limited to PC games as the article seems to emphasize.

    So that would seem to make the article null and void.

    Buy a hard drive, hook it up to your Wii. Go rent a game. You now have it for life.

    1000x easier than getting a game on your PC. Yet there are tons of quality Wii games.

    Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.

  • lectrocudalectrocuda Member Posts: 604

    This thread sounds like a drug addict blaming everyone but themselves for their problems...

    To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.

  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw Member Posts: 547

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by bcrankshaw

    One more point I need to make

    I am not saying all PC games  are not selling or that the overall  quality of all  PC games has decreased

    Look at MW2 and COD: BO they were extremely successful and reaped huge profits

    I think DRM has to be the future to ensure companies continue to develop quality single player PC games and they make  enough revenue to justify investment in this aspect of gaming e,g PC

    If you are happy with the fact that many companies release the PC version long after the console version(if at all ) or you think Dragon Age was as good a game as Baldurs Gate 2 then this particular article shouldn't apply to you

    For me  the whole concern around Pirating is extremely worrying as the above paragraph does apply to me

    End of the day this discussion becomes very subjective ..but aren't all debates :)

     

    DRM is proving to have the opposite effect. It's driving people who would otherwise pay for said game, away.

    Ubisoft's latest draconian DRM is proof of this. Many people have boycotted their latest games due to it's overly restrictive "constant internet connection" DRM that has a severely negative impact on legitimate gamers. I.e. if Ubisoft's authentication servers go down you can't play the game you bought, or if you have a spotty or no Internet connection you simply can't play the game at all. This has actually encouraged people to acquire pirated copies of said games that are cracked to exclude such restrictive DRM.

    DRM does nothing but hurt the industry.

     With all due respects this sounds like just an excuse to pirate

    I bought AC2 3 months ago...I loaded a little patch and I clocked about 70 hours in the game

    I didn't have one connection failure or issue

    I live in South Africa and I have a 4 Mb ADSL line and  I am assuming that the Ubisoft servers are oversea's

    I didn't find the DRM restrictive in anyway

    Also the article clearly points out that games without DRM end up getting pirated more ...so DRM is the answer ....its just how do gaming companies apply it ?

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

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