In my opinion, Vanguard died because it was released too close to Everquest II,
Usually, I find it appallingly hilarious when people don't do even the most basic of fact checking before posting an opinion that just makes them look...like they didn't do even the most basic of fact checking.
But in this case...I stand by you in solidarity, my friend...
Everquest II Release Date: November, 2004
Vanguard Release Date: January, 2007
I agree that Vanguard was released too soon to EQII - 2.25 years wasn't NEARLY long enough.
I have said it befor and I'll say it again. SOE will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do anything with Vanguard because they see it as a direct threat to EQ2. That is why they bought it and put it on life support and also to milk the few players left that are loyal to the game. If another company would have got it and actually put money into fixing the issues it had then EQ2 would have had some serious competition.
In my opinion, Vanguard would have crushed EQ2 if it didnt release in the poor state it did due to mismanagement.
While a DDO/LotRO-style F2P model could work for Vanguard (or any game for that matter), something tells me that SOE, who thinks they should still be charging $15/month for a failed game, would come up with a gawd-awful cash shop for it that would continue to keep folks away.
I could definitely seeing them releasing one of those "you don't have to pay anything, but you'll be unable to get far if you don't pay a fortune" type cash shops, and put the final nails in the Vanguard coffin.
I'm not sure how many know but there is a considerable amount of EQ1 lore in Vanguard. One of three original developers of EQ1 wanted to go his own way. So they cut a deal. SoE got the name EQ2 and Sigil Entertainment went with Vanguard SoH but at launch Sigil couldn't mention a word about the EQ1 lore in the name or advertising of the game since both titles launched almost the same time.
Vanguard is huge explorable world full of detail, story, and features. Clearly a considerable amount of development went into the game. If Vanguard shuts down it will be the loss of a good deal of creative talent and countless manhours of development. Maybe Brad McQuaid and SoE can come to terms again for EQ3 someday. That would be a sight to see.
i dont know how vanguard did so bad i know it had a bad launch but it fixed itself very fast. I think this was one of the best mmo's i have ever played including Eq1 and now currently playing darkfall. I never has such a great experience than these games.
Vanguard won't go f2p.. the world isn't made for that kind of model. Cash shop would probably just run the last few subscribers off. What they really need to do is lower the sub fee to around $9 since they aren't working on it anymore. Otherwise hold some in game events, release a couple of new items, quests, etc. every now and then, and promote the game... but nothing will likely happen since EQ is SoE's cash cow.
At least they are keeping VG open. F2P won't do anything for it as long as SoE doesn't have anyone working on it. Regardless, I still have a house there, in world, not in some instance that no one visits or behind some doorway everyone uses to get to their house. I have ships and sail the open seas. My mounts take me on journeys across the vast, open lands of Telon.. will be a sad day when VG goes away. It is the last of the old world rpgs where you really can make your own adventure.
If they had ever released any real additional content they could have brought some people back (along with the bug fixes). We quit due to lack of things to do eventually, our entire guild did. I feel that had a couple years to bring out an expansion hat would have brought in old players, seems a little late now.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
What they really need to do is lower the sub fee to around $9
This, although $9 is still too much. If SOE wanted people to come back to the game, and/or see a resurgence of players, they would drop the price to $4.99 a month (which is about on par with Free Realms). People will be more forgiving of the non-existent development status of the game if they are only paying $5 a month than if they are being slugged premium prices ($14.99/month) for a game with no real future.
To be honest unless they put an actual dev team together for this game I'll stay away from this despite the fact it still does intrigue me. Going the freemium rout is the only thing I can think of that might help this game out in my humble opinion. Lowering the sub doesn't make me want to shell out of it in the least. I'll pay for a healthy game which I know is supported... not one I think will dissapear at any time.
I was working at MGS (Microsoft Game Studios) for some of the time that Vanguard was with them. I was just a petty Admin, but the dev team just wanted more than MS could give them. I actually cannot even remember the drama but it had something to do with money. Who knows.
Vanguard to me can be fine F2P, and yes, it does need a graphic overhaul of the models at the very least. Some people believe it doesn't which is fine, but those people equal what? 2 servers? Now its been years since VG has been out so the gameplay is hashed out already hopefully right? I mean, I have fond memories of EQ1 for years, but last time I logged in a year ago, i was like... Hell no. lol (moreso I couldn't figure out how to move around like im used too)
In order to take Vanguard to a F2P model or give it any sort of overhaul, SOE would have to consider the game a priority. Their actions suggest they don't considering the last Fan Faire didn't have any panels or even any mention of VG at all. They've also cut all development and resources for Vanguard over the last several years, and they've merged 14 servers down to 2.
At this point, VG is a good nostalgia game for people who want a playstyle closer to the original EQ, but that's about it. Don't expect any miracles for this game. It's Station Pass fodder, and nothing more.
Man, Sony Station is looking really weak these days. Free Realms is the best thing on there. SWG will likely be pulled when SWTOR launches, PotBS is going F2P, Planetside should have gone a long time ago. That leaves 4 different versions of EQ plus a kids MMO. Kind of defeats the object of a game pass.
I think this is still the best game on the market and doesn't need a graphics update at all. More content would be good though.
People are precious though, some bugs in the beginning and everyone is still writing off the game. It's a really great game and it would be a shame if it went to waste.
I would without a doubt go back to VG if it went with a FTP market. Hell, I occasionally go back just to run a few chars through the starter zone on new accounts because I get that itch. I would also probably pay for a sub if the pop went up.
I think the best thing to happen would be another developer buying it, changing it to FTP and then adding content. SOE isn't going to spend anopther penny on it and any money they get from FTP Smed would see as recouping his losses.
Our guild spent a long time there and it was the best guild experience we have had in a game due to the challenge. If somoene spent a feww thousand man hours on this game I believe it could be the best MMO out there. It already is in terms of playability - I left because of lack of content.
Definitely the biggest tragedy in MMO land ever - saddens my heart every time I think of it.
Vanguard f2p. What would you put in the shop. I suppose it could be done but the way the did EQ extended they might scare away any remaining people even if the game is great.
I agree Vanguard is the great game no one plays. Me included have lauded its a great game but am not playing it. Guilty as charged. I would play if more people did is the catch 22.
Vanguard f2p. What would you put in the shop. I suppose it could be done but the way the did EQ extended they might scare away any remaining people even if the game is great.
The things I've purchased from LotRO's shop have included:
Shared storage space for characters on the same server.
"Deed" XP boosts (Instead of killing 120 Orcs, I only have to kill 60, etc.)
Earlier access to the riding skill/faster travel (didn't want to spend all that time running 'round the shire, then blow the few silvers I had to get a horse. Opted to spend real world cash instead.
Basically, I bought stuff that made it easier for my alts to interact, to save me a bit of time grinding for Deeds (which increase your abilities when completed), and get around more easily/faster. Nothing game-breaking, just more convenience for me.
There's no reason any other games can't offer these types of things as well.
The reason Sony has red-headed-step-childed this game is because they took it off Microsoft's hands, afraid it would take away from their EQ2 franchise. After purchase, Sony moved to release it too early, moved all the development staff onto what they thought were more important projects (literally for an EQ1 expansion). They bought it to kill it, and did a good job of it. No game can take the kind of neglect that Sony has given it without losing player base. If WoW or EQ2 no longer did updates or new content, they would suffer a similar fate. Sony wanted it buried, and now it is, which sucks, as I loved the game, but with one developer working full time on the game, he can barely keep up with immediate issues let alone new content. I love Vanguard, but the state the game is in, is exactly the state Sony wanted it in.
Personally I hate free to play. No trading,no grouping in some cases,no selling at the vender,etc...you end up spending more then actually paying the $15 a month. With games like Vanguard I think too much emphasis is put on end game all the time. Why not just add new quests every month to keep people busy? That would be less costly then expansions I think and I am claiming no expertise on the financial side. Are we so prone to discontentment that like getting a new cell every year we have to have a new game via expansions? Of course I am not saying I never want expansions but if money is an issue then maybe devs can made MMOs more modulated so its easy to add content rather then spending millions on a gigormous dev team. Or just lower monthly subs to like $5-$10 and raise the cost of the initial game another $10 to get the extra revenue at the start. If you can get 100,000 subscribers why can't that be profitable? I stopped playing the game initially because of the bugs and some of the other game mechanics but may get back in if they find a solution that woulod bring me back like just lowering the monthly sub. I am the type that plays more then one MMO so it becomes very costly for me at times. The economy has brought me to my knees though at this time.
In my opinion, Vanguard died because it was released too close to Everquest II,
Usually, I find it appallingly hilarious when people don't do even the most basic of fact checking before posting an opinion that just makes them look...like they didn't do even the most basic of fact checking.
But in this case...I stand by you in solidarity, my friend...
Everquest II Release Date: November, 2004
Vanguard Release Date: January, 2007
I agree that Vanguard was released too soon to EQII - 2.25 years wasn't NEARLY long enough.
P.S. I fact checked that in about 90 seconds.
...On my phone.
...Sitting on the toilet at work.
Props for your excellent toilet sitting/phone searching achievments and noticing my poor word choice, thanks for the clarification. From the previous posters who also claimed EQ2s close proximity (not in time, but in content and likeness) to Vanguard, I do not feel the need to restate things. Sorry for the misstatement, but once again I'd like to commend your excellent use of a smart-phone.
More on-topic, any SOE game going F2P with the model they used for EQX is never going to make me want to play the game due to (as one poster said) th stench of greed. Granted, it is 'free', and they did code it, so they should get whatever money they can take from it.
Comments
LOL
I have said it befor and I'll say it again. SOE will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do anything with Vanguard because they see it as a direct threat to EQ2. That is why they bought it and put it on life support and also to milk the few players left that are loyal to the game. If another company would have got it and actually put money into fixing the issues it had then EQ2 would have had some serious competition.
In my opinion, Vanguard would have crushed EQ2 if it didnt release in the poor state it did due to mismanagement.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
While a DDO/LotRO-style F2P model could work for Vanguard (or any game for that matter), something tells me that SOE, who thinks they should still be charging $15/month for a failed game, would come up with a gawd-awful cash shop for it that would continue to keep folks away.
I could definitely seeing them releasing one of those "you don't have to pay anything, but you'll be unable to get far if you don't pay a fortune" type cash shops, and put the final nails in the Vanguard coffin.
I'm not sure how many know but there is a considerable amount of EQ1 lore in Vanguard. One of three original developers of EQ1 wanted to go his own way. So they cut a deal. SoE got the name EQ2 and Sigil Entertainment went with Vanguard SoH but at launch Sigil couldn't mention a word about the EQ1 lore in the name or advertising of the game since both titles launched almost the same time.
Vanguard is huge explorable world full of detail, story, and features. Clearly a considerable amount of development went into the game. If Vanguard shuts down it will be the loss of a good deal of creative talent and countless manhours of development. Maybe Brad McQuaid and SoE can come to terms again for EQ3 someday. That would be a sight to see.
i dont know how vanguard did so bad i know it had a bad launch but it fixed itself very fast. I think this was one of the best mmo's i have ever played including Eq1 and now currently playing darkfall. I never has such a great experience than these games.
Is there still no PvP in Vanguard? Not even in instances? BGs? Open World? ANY kind to mix up the PvE experience?
Vanguard has always had pvp servers. Did they stop?
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
BOOYAKA!
Vanguard won't go f2p.. the world isn't made for that kind of model. Cash shop would probably just run the last few subscribers off. What they really need to do is lower the sub fee to around $9 since they aren't working on it anymore. Otherwise hold some in game events, release a couple of new items, quests, etc. every now and then, and promote the game... but nothing will likely happen since EQ is SoE's cash cow.
At least they are keeping VG open. F2P won't do anything for it as long as SoE doesn't have anyone working on it. Regardless, I still have a house there, in world, not in some instance that no one visits or behind some doorway everyone uses to get to their house. I have ships and sail the open seas. My mounts take me on journeys across the vast, open lands of Telon.. will be a sad day when VG goes away. It is the last of the old world rpgs where you really can make your own adventure.
If they had ever released any real additional content they could have brought some people back (along with the bug fixes). We quit due to lack of things to do eventually, our entire guild did. I feel that had a couple years to bring out an expansion hat would have brought in old players, seems a little late now.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
i never liked it but thats just for me ..
I did enjoy Vanguard recently, but I am kinda sick of questing type games. Would so play it if it was ftp though.
This, although $9 is still too much. If SOE wanted people to come back to the game, and/or see a resurgence of players, they would drop the price to $4.99 a month (which is about on par with Free Realms). People will be more forgiving of the non-existent development status of the game if they are only paying $5 a month than if they are being slugged premium prices ($14.99/month) for a game with no real future.
To be honest unless they put an actual dev team together for this game I'll stay away from this despite the fact it still does intrigue me. Going the freemium rout is the only thing I can think of that might help this game out in my humble opinion. Lowering the sub doesn't make me want to shell out of it in the least. I'll pay for a healthy game which I know is supported... not one I think will dissapear at any time.
I was working at MGS (Microsoft Game Studios) for some of the time that Vanguard was with them. I was just a petty Admin, but the dev team just wanted more than MS could give them. I actually cannot even remember the drama but it had something to do with money. Who knows.
Vanguard to me can be fine F2P, and yes, it does need a graphic overhaul of the models at the very least. Some people believe it doesn't which is fine, but those people equal what? 2 servers? Now its been years since VG has been out so the gameplay is hashed out already hopefully right? I mean, I have fond memories of EQ1 for years, but last time I logged in a year ago, i was like... Hell no. lol (moreso I couldn't figure out how to move around like im used too)
In order to take Vanguard to a F2P model or give it any sort of overhaul, SOE would have to consider the game a priority. Their actions suggest they don't considering the last Fan Faire didn't have any panels or even any mention of VG at all. They've also cut all development and resources for Vanguard over the last several years, and they've merged 14 servers down to 2.
At this point, VG is a good nostalgia game for people who want a playstyle closer to the original EQ, but that's about it. Don't expect any miracles for this game. It's Station Pass fodder, and nothing more.
Wasn't that game switched off already?
Oh.
Man, Sony Station is looking really weak these days. Free Realms is the best thing on there. SWG will likely be pulled when SWTOR launches, PotBS is going F2P, Planetside should have gone a long time ago. That leaves 4 different versions of EQ plus a kids MMO. Kind of defeats the object of a game pass.
I think this is still the best game on the market and doesn't need a graphics update at all. More content would be good though.
People are precious though, some bugs in the beginning and everyone is still writing off the game. It's a really great game and it would be a shame if it went to waste.
I would without a doubt go back to VG if it went with a FTP market. Hell, I occasionally go back just to run a few chars through the starter zone on new accounts because I get that itch. I would also probably pay for a sub if the pop went up.
I think the best thing to happen would be another developer buying it, changing it to FTP and then adding content. SOE isn't going to spend anopther penny on it and any money they get from FTP Smed would see as recouping his losses.
Our guild spent a long time there and it was the best guild experience we have had in a game due to the challenge. If somoene spent a feww thousand man hours on this game I believe it could be the best MMO out there. It already is in terms of playability - I left because of lack of content.
Definitely the biggest tragedy in MMO land ever - saddens my heart every time I think of it.
Vanguard f2p. What would you put in the shop. I suppose it could be done but the way the did EQ extended they might scare away any remaining people even if the game is great.
I agree Vanguard is the great game no one plays. Me included have lauded its a great game but am not playing it. Guilty as charged. I would play if more people did is the catch 22.
The things I've purchased from LotRO's shop have included:
Shared storage space for characters on the same server.
"Deed" XP boosts (Instead of killing 120 Orcs, I only have to kill 60, etc.)
Earlier access to the riding skill/faster travel (didn't want to spend all that time running 'round the shire, then blow the few silvers I had to get a horse. Opted to spend real world cash instead.
Basically, I bought stuff that made it easier for my alts to interact, to save me a bit of time grinding for Deeds (which increase your abilities when completed), and get around more easily/faster. Nothing game-breaking, just more convenience for me.
There's no reason any other games can't offer these types of things as well.
The reason Sony has red-headed-step-childed this game is because they took it off Microsoft's hands, afraid it would take away from their EQ2 franchise. After purchase, Sony moved to release it too early, moved all the development staff onto what they thought were more important projects (literally for an EQ1 expansion). They bought it to kill it, and did a good job of it. No game can take the kind of neglect that Sony has given it without losing player base. If WoW or EQ2 no longer did updates or new content, they would suffer a similar fate. Sony wanted it buried, and now it is, which sucks, as I loved the game, but with one developer working full time on the game, he can barely keep up with immediate issues let alone new content. I love Vanguard, but the state the game is in, is exactly the state Sony wanted it in.
Personally I hate free to play. No trading,no grouping in some cases,no selling at the vender,etc...you end up spending more then actually paying the $15 a month. With games like Vanguard I think too much emphasis is put on end game all the time. Why not just add new quests every month to keep people busy? That would be less costly then expansions I think and I am claiming no expertise on the financial side. Are we so prone to discontentment that like getting a new cell every year we have to have a new game via expansions? Of course I am not saying I never want expansions but if money is an issue then maybe devs can made MMOs more modulated so its easy to add content rather then spending millions on a gigormous dev team. Or just lower monthly subs to like $5-$10 and raise the cost of the initial game another $10 to get the extra revenue at the start. If you can get 100,000 subscribers why can't that be profitable? I stopped playing the game initially because of the bugs and some of the other game mechanics but may get back in if they find a solution that woulod bring me back like just lowering the monthly sub. I am the type that plays more then one MMO so it becomes very costly for me at times. The economy has brought me to my knees though at this time.
Props for your excellent toilet sitting/phone searching achievments and noticing my poor word choice, thanks for the clarification. From the previous posters who also claimed EQ2s close proximity (not in time, but in content and likeness) to Vanguard, I do not feel the need to restate things. Sorry for the misstatement, but once again I'd like to commend your excellent use of a smart-phone.
More on-topic, any SOE game going F2P with the model they used for EQX is never going to make me want to play the game due to (as one poster said) th stench of greed. Granted, it is 'free', and they did code it, so they should get whatever money they can take from it.