If any of you actually read the link, it makes a lot of sense. In theory. I'll reserve my opinion for when Cataclysm comes out; I don't see how any of you can be cheering or griping until you actually see how it plays. (Unless, of course, you've been in the beta.)
Though, I like this statement in particular, and will be very happy if it is pulled off correctly:
Second, since healers weren’t really running out of mana, we had to find other ways to make those raid encounters that were designed to be challenging actually challenging. That often came down to very high tank or raid damage. So now not only did healers not have much of a choice about which spell to use, but they also had to use that spell every global cooldown or risk someone dying. This made healing stressful without the reward of having made good decisions. If you healed the wrong target, hesitated for a moment, or had a laggy connection, then someone was going to die.
Healers are the main thing that makes a fight last forever and they don't actually make the combat more exciting either.
Nerfing the healers make sense, it will make the combat more interesting. I think ANETs idea of taking out the healer whatsoever will make combat a lot more interesting but you just can't do the same thing for Wow, it would be the NGE of a lifetime.
If they now only would do the same thing for tanks the combat would really improve. That would force people to actually play tactical.
Healers are the bane of my existence. One of the main reasons I couldn't put up with pvp anymore, (let alone the pillar hump fest arena was) was having to deal with nigh invincible healers so often. I faintly remember a blizzard employee named Ghostcrawler that had said something along the lines that a competent heal specced player is designed to not be able to be killed by 1 dps, but 2 dpsers.
Because being a healer wasn't already enough grief and responsiblity now it is the healers fault if they run out of mana.
Because picking up a group in the dungeon finder as a healer wasn't already down to sub-minute levels. We need to do something about the over abundance of healers.
Because cast time and choosing who to heal first wasn't already factor for healers, got to give them more to worry about.
I don't mind that they are trying to get back to basics a bit more and making mana a finite resource is sensible, healers shouldn't be stupid with which heal they choose but this is going to be a very delicate balancing act for Blizz and, well, balance is not something they are well known for. But having ANY amount of healers throwing in the towel is not a good idea let along a significant amount choosing so.
Blizz is its own worst enemy.
Healing needs to be about twice as fun and "omg this is cool" as any other class just to balance things out. In Aion Clerics are the only full healers, they are godly in PvP, they solo well, they do good damage AND they wear chain so they are hard to kill. They don't melt faces but they are very solid and hard to kill. Even so, it is still not too easy to find "healing" clerics for your PvE instances.
Healing is, inherently, an acceptance of added responsiblity that many simply don't want.
So why then do you want to make that job even more of a pain?
I didn't bother to raid past naxx with my "Hand of A'dal" priest this last expansion because getting jumped everytime you log on gets overwhelming after a while. This expansion? I am not even going to bother leveling him. I don't want anyone to even know I have a healer.
I don't know, I do like them trying to make healing more interesting and this certainly can do that but most of the time I think the "interesting" is going to get lost in the complaints from dps that can figure out how to stay out of the damn fire. It is like trying to put the genie back into the bottle. Blizz did make the game too easy and a general faceroll. But now, when they finally decide to crack down on things a bit it manifests itself in ways that only seemingly adds responsiblity to tanks and healers. DPS needs to learn to CC, follow marks, watch threat and avoid avoidable damage but 90% of the time in pugs they dont.
The result is that dungeon finder is going to suck even harder than it already does.
I could be mistaken, but isn't this the whole underlying idea ... everyone is responsible for the survival of the group?!
So if the healer craps out on mana, then it would be the dpssers fault for example, because he overdpssed.
So dpssers need to manage their dmg while healers manage their mana.
Its become like more of a group thing, while before everybody just facerolled their abilities so to speak.
As a healer in WoW...I just let people die if I have to, to keep as many others alive as possible. If a dps is constantly taking aggro and getting smacked around - dead. If a player doesn't get out of the fire - dead. I'll ress after. I'll do my best to keep people up but stupid people are stupid people and no amount of mana is ever going to be enough. So it'll come down to choices. Keep me and the tank and another DPS up or let us all die?
With that being said...WoW is being redesigned by idiots. Yes total idiots. Cataclysm has its good points, but now I have tasted some of the rest, a lot more and I personally do not see myself playing this game much longer. Blizzards handling of server imbalances is a failure. They've pretty much shut down world PvP with the asinine changes to Wintergrasp and Tol Barad - and soon, very soon their may be restrictions to PvP across the board.
I've got a blog entry I am working on...it tells the other story of Cataclysm and how Blizzard took a good game and turned it into crap.
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
id like to know how this affects each class instead of just saying healing in general.
because i have always felt like druids had the upper hand on healing over priest. so it would be interesting because priest haveing a wider variety allows for greater mana management.
id like to know if this balanced the healing inbetween the different classes.
One of the reasons that dungeon finder thing is so bad is that the no skill DPSers keep complaining about healing when they are totally clueless about aggro management. I hate playing a healer but I love to heal and watch the whole situation turn around. The same can be said of a crowd control too and you combine that with healing like in City of X and you have your dream toon. Sigh, wish I never get so sick of missions so quick or else I will stay in that game forever.
It is true I hate how they pile the blame on the healer but honestly when people groan and moan about how they hate healer eliteness well sweet cheeks if you take the amount of abuse you have to as healer some amount of pay back is due. Well Tanks don't get that much grief to be honest which is probably another reason I took a break from playing. Actually come to think of it after leaving LotRO I played WoW for a bit and the dungeon finder thing totally scared me away from MMOs. Initially I loved it but my god the number of horrible players who do not give a damn about their reputation because let's face it random groups from different servers ....hello recipe for total irresponsible behaviour.
id like to know how this affects each class instead of just saying healing in general.
because i have always felt like druids had the upper hand on healing over priest. so it would be interesting because priest haveing a wider variety allows for greater mana management.
id like to know if this balanced the healing inbetween the different classes.
Druids had the upper hand over priest? In what sense? If it comes to mana efficiency and management, druids are the best. But it seems fair to have better mana efficiency when you are healing over time to allow for possible overhealing. Druids overheal a lot.
id like to know how this affects each class instead of just saying healing in general.
because i have always felt like druids had the upper hand on healing over priest. so it would be interesting because priest haveing a wider variety allows for greater mana management.
id like to know if this balanced the healing inbetween the different classes.
Druids had the upper hand over priest? In what sense? If it comes to mana efficiency and management, druids are the best. But it seems fair to have better mana efficiency when you are healing over time to allow for possible overhealing. Druids overheal a lot.
I am not really an expert on this is just the way i feel but the grass always looks greener on the other side.
thx for responding tho but i would still like to know how it affects each class more over others. or if it does. might just be to early to tell.
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
LOL - I am considered one of the best healers on my server...I know how to play a healer.
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
Perhaps you enjoy playing the game the way that Ghostcrawler and his buddies demand that it be played? Many obviously do not. But with the changes, its going to be much more difficult to not fall into the cookie cutter molds prepared for each class. If there is only One True Way of playing a given class(Ghostcrawlers way), then thats what is going to happen. Anyone departing from that path is going to run into the walls that Ghostcrawler and his buddies have established. Personally, I've never been too impressed with his Vision(tm).
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
Perhaps you enjoy playing the game the way that Ghostcrawler and his buddies demand that it be played? Many obviously do not. But with the changes, its going to be much more difficult to not fall into the cookie cutter molds prepared for each class. If there is only One True Way of playing a given class(Ghostcrawlers way), then thats what is going to happen. Anyone departing from that path is going to run into the walls that Ghostcrawler and his buddies have established. Personally, I've never been too impressed with his Vision(tm).
Yep...and that "Vision" is a tunnel. It is becoming stupidly clear that this game has been turned into even more of a linear game and that there is no room for deviation. Remember when they were going to add cloak covers? Did you read why they decided not to do it after all? Do you know why they refuse to add an appearance tab? Ugh!!!!!!
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
duh you make spell choices , here are the options for you in cata .
Start casting at 75% health (why not early not enough mana)
Break cast shit panic hit 1. second cost emergency heal .
Wait what the heck another at 75% oh its a dps , learn to selfheal dps .
I am bussy cause tank healer and top dps > average noob . so learn to bandage XD
cause i am not waisting 1 second emergency cast on you
So breaks down to hurray ... a long mana efficiency cast , and 1 mana expensive cast , and some hots .
Woot thats choicing spells for you , hope you are the top dps or the tank .
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
this is the ground breaking point , healers want to save people keep people alive .
Good healers care about that the most , keeping everybody alive , there is nothing more frustrating in TBC then having no mana , and waiting 5 second for MP5 / MANA regen to kick in , and seeing people DIE and raid WIPE , we were mass mana potting back then .
Cause of causal raids we had 1 pot a raid boss , cause its too expensive .
Cause of casual who are too slow to react , we had to have more mana to make up for them
Now casual think they are hardcore are busted 1 zillion times
Cause of casual healers having a full mana pool while half the raid is dead ...
So imagine casual healers having 50% mana while the raid is dead , and the good ones are oom .
Woot new system for them , go oom in 2 min to cheat the system .
Healing has a lot of mechanics you can expand on. It is easy to make healing hard, does not take a genius. Making healing easy and DPS hard is what takes effort. All they will accomplish is widening the gap between healers and DPS. It is nice they try to make WoW more involved but healers are not the right start.
Healing has a lot of mechanics you can expand on. It is easy to make healing hard, does not take a genius. Making healing easy and DPS hard is what takes effort. All they will accomplish is widening the gap between healers and DPS. It is nice they try to make WoW more involved but healers are not the right start.
Here is a simple solution ban healbot grid like system that select people on there health .
Now lets see how many healers cry its too hard already .
Honestly instead of nerfing mana effiency , how about nerfing those adons and banning them
You know why basic UI stinks for healers , its way too complicated , we all use mouse over macro etc .
You want healers to be less proficient , ban those freaking adon , you want more time for heals to come trough manual selection , ban mouseover macro´s
Doesn´t matter , they wont do that , nope instead nerf mana efficiency cause touching those adons and macros .
Means no healers left , so basically what they will get in CATA is bored pro , tons of casual who cannot handle pressure.
Sorry , its not hard to make healing diffcult cause healing is already too difficult with standard UI .
This is a good change, but 100% they did this before in BC and i'm pretty sure in WOTLK.
Most of the changes they make at the beginning of an expansion are completely undermined by the amounts of gear that accumulate after like 6 months.
On a side note STFU with guild wars 2, game looks like shit just like the first one. If I wanted to hear about a second rate piece of dog shit game i'd go into those forums.
Maybe some of the top Raiders and PvPers had mana overflowing, but I doubt most healers on their way up had such an easy time. I know I never thought healing was too easy.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Haven't been keeping up with Cataclysm, but it may be time to dust off my shadow priest.
Patch 4.0.3a that just went live dropped a huge nerf hammer on Spriest today. As a player that plays melee and have delt wit hshadow priest many times - I will welcome this immensely!
In the original Wow, healers always had to watch their mana, Wotlk players have been spoiled by this last expansion. Healers just have to be careful about their build to include good mana regeneration.
Far worse is what Blizzard has done to feral druid tanks in Cata. Raids don't want them because it is very hard for them to hold aggro now. While they buffed the warrior class.
In the interest of staying on track, I will say that I fully support the changes they are making to the healing class. I am a bit biased as I admittedly have not played Wotlk. I left after burning crusade and have just recently returned; however, I have friends that have been playing the whole time who have informed me of the healing in Wotlk. Even most of them said it was ridiculous. I think that it's much cooler to have to use a specific heal at a specific time in order to play the class. This will weed out a lot of players that should not have been priest to begin with. Spam healers begone imo. I was a resto druid, and I always prided myself on mana preservation and using the right heal at the right time. This will help to hone skills even further and now... A good healer will actually be sought out.
As to the poster above... I must say... F Feral druid tanks. Other then my Druid, my main class was a prot. Warrior and druid tanks made my completely worthless. They have had it so good for so long, they deserve a step down. Protection Warriors give up a lot to be great tanks and still have to compete with Pali's. They need all the help they can get.
In the interest of staying on track, I will say that I fully support the changes they are making to the healing class. I am a bit biased as I admittedly have not played Wotlk. I left after burning crusade and have just recently returned; however, I have friends that have been playing the whole time who have informed me of the healing in Wotlk. Even most of them said it was ridiculous. I think that it's much cooler to have to use a specific heal at a specific time in order to play the class. This will weed out a lot of players that should not have been priest to begin with. Spam healers begone imo. I was a resto druid, and I always prided myself on mana preservation and using the right heal at the right time. This will help to hone skills even further and now... A good healer will actually be sought out.
Now is a great time to get back in if you haven't done so already. The changes definitely make healers pay more attention to their mana consumption now, but there are a few things that have an even larger impact on fights. DPSers that know how to manage agro require less heals. Tanks who know how and when to use their damage reduction cooldowns require less heals. Classes with CC abilities that actually use them and tanks that know not to fight three feet away from a shackled mob will save a lot on healing.
With healers having an almost infinite amount of mana in WotLK, players got very relaxed about taking excessive damage. Now if someone stands in the fire for a second or two longer than they should, they can't always look to the healer to have the mana to cover for their mistake.
Comments
If any of you actually read the link, it makes a lot of sense. In theory. I'll reserve my opinion for when Cataclysm comes out; I don't see how any of you can be cheering or griping until you actually see how it plays. (Unless, of course, you've been in the beta.)
Though, I like this statement in particular, and will be very happy if it is pulled off correctly:
Second, since healers weren’t really running out of mana, we had to find other ways to make those raid encounters that were designed to be challenging actually challenging. That often came down to very high tank or raid damage. So now not only did healers not have much of a choice about which spell to use, but they also had to use that spell every global cooldown or risk someone dying. This made healing stressful without the reward of having made good decisions. If you healed the wrong target, hesitated for a moment, or had a laggy connection, then someone was going to die.
Healers are the bane of my existence. One of the main reasons I couldn't put up with pvp anymore, (let alone the pillar hump fest arena was) was having to deal with nigh invincible healers so often. I faintly remember a blizzard employee named Ghostcrawler that had said something along the lines that a competent heal specced player is designed to not be able to be killed by 1 dps, but 2 dpsers.
I could be mistaken, but isn't this the whole underlying idea ... everyone is responsible for the survival of the group?!
So if the healer craps out on mana, then it would be the dpssers fault for example, because he overdpssed.
So dpssers need to manage their dmg while healers manage their mana.
Its become like more of a group thing, while before everybody just facerolled their abilities so to speak.
As a healer in WoW...I just let people die if I have to, to keep as many others alive as possible. If a dps is constantly taking aggro and getting smacked around - dead. If a player doesn't get out of the fire - dead. I'll ress after. I'll do my best to keep people up but stupid people are stupid people and no amount of mana is ever going to be enough. So it'll come down to choices. Keep me and the tank and another DPS up or let us all die?
With that being said...WoW is being redesigned by idiots. Yes total idiots. Cataclysm has its good points, but now I have tasted some of the rest, a lot more and I personally do not see myself playing this game much longer. Blizzards handling of server imbalances is a failure. They've pretty much shut down world PvP with the asinine changes to Wintergrasp and Tol Barad - and soon, very soon their may be restrictions to PvP across the board.
I've got a blog entry I am working on...it tells the other story of Cataclysm and how Blizzard took a good game and turned it into crap.
About damn time I miss choosing spells then spamming crap. Hooray for going OOM again!
Going OOM is not fun. It is not fun at all. ::shakes her head::
Duh, thats why you choose your spells properly and make sure you use the right spell for the right time to make sure your mana efficient. The good healers will go on forever as before, the bad ones will go OOM so fast. *shakes his head* Maybe you should try more spells then flash heal?
id like to know how this affects each class instead of just saying healing in general.
because i have always felt like druids had the upper hand on healing over priest. so it would be interesting because priest haveing a wider variety allows for greater mana management.
id like to know if this balanced the healing inbetween the different classes.
One of the reasons that dungeon finder thing is so bad is that the no skill DPSers keep complaining about healing when they are totally clueless about aggro management. I hate playing a healer but I love to heal and watch the whole situation turn around. The same can be said of a crowd control too and you combine that with healing like in City of X and you have your dream toon. Sigh, wish I never get so sick of missions so quick or else I will stay in that game forever.
It is true I hate how they pile the blame on the healer but honestly when people groan and moan about how they hate healer eliteness well sweet cheeks if you take the amount of abuse you have to as healer some amount of pay back is due. Well Tanks don't get that much grief to be honest which is probably another reason I took a break from playing. Actually come to think of it after leaving LotRO I played WoW for a bit and the dungeon finder thing totally scared me away from MMOs. Initially I loved it but my god the number of horrible players who do not give a damn about their reputation because let's face it random groups from different servers ....hello recipe for total irresponsible behaviour.
Druids had the upper hand over priest? In what sense? If it comes to mana efficiency and management, druids are the best. But it seems fair to have better mana efficiency when you are healing over time to allow for possible overhealing. Druids overheal a lot.
I am not really an expert on this is just the way i feel but the grass always looks greener on the other side.
thx for responding tho but i would still like to know how it affects each class more over others. or if it does. might just be to early to tell.
LOL - I am considered one of the best healers on my server...I know how to play a healer.
Two words: DUAL SPEC
God I love those 2 buttons: dual spec and gear changer.
Problem solved.
Human hunter here I come.
Perhaps you enjoy playing the game the way that Ghostcrawler and his buddies demand that it be played? Many obviously do not. But with the changes, its going to be much more difficult to not fall into the cookie cutter molds prepared for each class. If there is only One True Way of playing a given class(Ghostcrawlers way), then thats what is going to happen. Anyone departing from that path is going to run into the walls that Ghostcrawler and his buddies have established. Personally, I've never been too impressed with his Vision(tm).
Yep...and that "Vision" is a tunnel. It is becoming stupidly clear that this game has been turned into even more of a linear game and that there is no room for deviation. Remember when they were going to add cloak covers? Did you read why they decided not to do it after all? Do you know why they refuse to add an appearance tab? Ugh!!!!!!
duh you make spell choices , here are the options for you in cata .
Start casting at 75% health (why not early not enough mana)
Break cast shit panic hit 1. second cost emergency heal .
Wait what the heck another at 75% oh its a dps , learn to selfheal dps .
I am bussy cause tank healer and top dps > average noob . so learn to bandage XD
cause i am not waisting 1 second emergency cast on you
So breaks down to hurray ... a long mana efficiency cast , and 1 mana expensive cast , and some hots .
Woot thats choicing spells for you , hope you are the top dps or the tank .
this is the ground breaking point , healers want to save people keep people alive .
Good healers care about that the most , keeping everybody alive , there is nothing more frustrating in TBC then having no mana , and waiting 5 second for MP5 / MANA regen to kick in , and seeing people DIE and raid WIPE , we were mass mana potting back then .
Cause of causal raids we had 1 pot a raid boss , cause its too expensive .
Cause of casual who are too slow to react , we had to have more mana to make up for them
Now casual think they are hardcore are busted 1 zillion times
Cause of casual healers having a full mana pool while half the raid is dead ...
So imagine casual healers having 50% mana while the raid is dead , and the good ones are oom .
Woot new system for them , go oom in 2 min to cheat the system .
And raid still wipes .
Healing has a lot of mechanics you can expand on. It is easy to make healing hard, does not take a genius. Making healing easy and DPS hard is what takes effort. All they will accomplish is widening the gap between healers and DPS. It is nice they try to make WoW more involved but healers are not the right start.
Here is a simple solution ban healbot grid like system that select people on there health .
Now lets see how many healers cry its too hard already .
Honestly instead of nerfing mana effiency , how about nerfing those adons and banning them
You know why basic UI stinks for healers , its way too complicated , we all use mouse over macro etc .
You want healers to be less proficient , ban those freaking adon , you want more time for heals to come trough manual selection , ban mouseover macro´s
Doesn´t matter , they wont do that , nope instead nerf mana efficiency cause touching those adons and macros .
Means no healers left , so basically what they will get in CATA is bored pro , tons of casual who cannot handle pressure.
Sorry , its not hard to make healing diffcult cause healing is already too difficult with standard UI .
Haven't been keeping up with Cataclysm, but it may be time to dust off my shadow priest.
This is a good change, but 100% they did this before in BC and i'm pretty sure in WOTLK.
Most of the changes they make at the beginning of an expansion are completely undermined by the amounts of gear that accumulate after like 6 months.
On a side note STFU with guild wars 2, game looks like shit just like the first one. If I wanted to hear about a second rate piece of dog shit game i'd go into those forums.
Maybe some of the top Raiders and PvPers had mana overflowing, but I doubt most healers on their way up had such an easy time. I know I never thought healing was too easy.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Patch 4.0.3a that just went live dropped a huge nerf hammer on Spriest today. As a player that plays melee and have delt wit hshadow priest many times - I will welcome this immensely!
In the interest of staying on track, I will say that I fully support the changes they are making to the healing class. I am a bit biased as I admittedly have not played Wotlk. I left after burning crusade and have just recently returned; however, I have friends that have been playing the whole time who have informed me of the healing in Wotlk. Even most of them said it was ridiculous. I think that it's much cooler to have to use a specific heal at a specific time in order to play the class. This will weed out a lot of players that should not have been priest to begin with. Spam healers begone imo. I was a resto druid, and I always prided myself on mana preservation and using the right heal at the right time. This will help to hone skills even further and now... A good healer will actually be sought out.
As to the poster above... I must say... F Feral druid tanks. Other then my Druid, my main class was a prot. Warrior and druid tanks made my completely worthless. They have had it so good for so long, they deserve a step down. Protection Warriors give up a lot to be great tanks and still have to compete with Pali's. They need all the help they can get.
Now is a great time to get back in if you haven't done so already. The changes definitely make healers pay more attention to their mana consumption now, but there are a few things that have an even larger impact on fights. DPSers that know how to manage agro require less heals. Tanks who know how and when to use their damage reduction cooldowns require less heals. Classes with CC abilities that actually use them and tanks that know not to fight three feet away from a shackled mob will save a lot on healing.
With healers having an almost infinite amount of mana in WotLK, players got very relaxed about taking excessive damage. Now if someone stands in the fire for a second or two longer than they should, they can't always look to the healer to have the mana to cover for their mistake.