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Why I miss exploration so much
Goronian
Member Posts: 724
Have you ever heard that argument? "Travelling in MMOs is too much of a hassle, we need to make it faster, easier, more streamlined."
I... Never agreed with that. Sure, a speed boost, that comes with a mount is nice, and all, but when you can literally travel to anywhere in the world in the matter of minutes, dues to easily set-up portals... This is where I drew the line. But I had no arguments back then. Until yesterday. Let me tell you a little story.
Me and my wife won movie tickets recently. Not a bad movie, by the way, but that's not my point. The theater we went to was kind of on the outskirts of Moscow, one the big circular highway, around the city. It was late and we weren't sure if subways would still work, by the time we got to them, so we decided to travel home on foot. We managed to get lost, wandered along the highway on a sleet-covered road, jumping through cracks, singing songs and just chatting away. We managed to get back to the city and eventually found our way home. For two hours we just wandered around, trying to find our way, not a care in the world, having the time of our lives. And that's when it hit me.
This is what I miss in MMOs so much. The ability to get explore, to wander, to get lost. The ability to travel together with someone with just a goal of "getting somewhere"m evading stronger mobs and ambushing the weaker ones. The ability... To have an adventure, really. You can't call an utterly predictable situation an adventure, now can you?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Comments
so ur saying that u dont agree with fast traveling even if u have to make that 20min travel each day over and over just to get to that instance/quest/zone?.. cant see how there is any exploring involved in taking the same route over and over again.
just my 2 cent
Just a thought if you like exploring ect try Uncharted Waters online having fun traveling about in there its F2P and i normaly dont touch them but this one has been fun
I would prefer that, yes. It doesn't make sense in a lot of games to have this big of a world, which you don't see.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I would have to agree.
I do believe in limited fast travel but in the end I wish there were games that allowed for more wandering.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
a transportation system for very long distances doesnt hurt.
the core-issue with exploration in todays games is: there is nothing to explore! there is nothing, worth to visit or explore, without a quest. most propably you cant access it or it will not give you the same or even superior reward. every damn mob in these worlds play a role in some quest.
try to play a newer MMO with just doing the tutorial-quest to get used to the features and then dont quest anymore. perhaps do the main-quest-line to unlock certain things. but thats it. dont accept any further quest.
no go out an kill stuff:
- its boring, because the combat of todays games is heavily simplified. its even more of a grind than it was in these early days of MMOs. you recognize this clearly if you stop ansthetizing yourself with quests.
- there is no tactical challenge and versatility, because all encounters are strictly refined these days. devs like to control it perfectly. expect stuff like linked-mobs and such and that you can kill these mobs just the one and only way, the devs designed this encounter. so its no fun to explore. you will find nothing challenging.
- you will also find no setting and no lore during your exploration. this is all part of quests. no chance outside of questing.
- dont expect any worthful reward. this comes from quests only.
so no, there is no reason to explore a unknown zoen nowadays.
i overdo a bit, but you got the picture.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
I agree, exploration is a very fun part of MMOs that have been cut down too much.
But to be honest is the fast traveling not the biggest problem it is the fact that the world is so small in modern MMOs.
Fast traveling is overused and while taking the boat between the games large cities is fine being able to constantly port to all over the game for free and often to places you never been before really makes the game even smaller than it already is.
Larger world + some fast travel but a lot less than most current game has make the game feels larger and more alive. Mounts, and particular flying mounts also make the game even smaller.
A MMO should feel massive (or at least some of the MMOs) and not just in the number of players but also in the size of the world. I hope there will be at least a few really large games in the future, the current shrinking worlds is not a fun trend.
While doing the Wow Pelgrim holliday season and achievements, I couldn't disagree more.
I would go crazy travelling between Stormwind, Ironforge, Darnassus, Exodar without a heartstone AND a self crafted portal (Ir) AND the Tournament tabard AND the portals in Dalaran. and this for 4 days in a row to craft the turkey gun ... (which brakes after each shot on 8 different targets)...
Imagine the downtime without ANY aids (My guess it would be around 40 hours of running - sickening).
Count in the dinner you'll have to try to eat in the enemy capitols of Ogrimmar, Undercity, Stone Mountains and that ugly Blood Elf city and....(the real fun challenge on a pvp server btw).
I simply wouldn't play it IF that would all be done without fast travelling.
You'd go nuts if doing this on foot and ship.
Part of the problem is the design of games that make force you to visit hubs often.
- Need to visit your trainer.
- Need to turn in quest.
- Need to visit bank. So you are adventuring and so much stuff drops these days, especially craft stuff.
- Need to visit crafting station.
- Need to visit advanced crafting station.
- Need to visit a merchant.
- Etc.
Their solution to this is fast travel to specific points.
Now, you can either waste people's time as above, or you can lesson the restrictions so people can use their time to explore. Remove the fast travel...that will increase there walkin' time. However, let them craft anywhere, call a merchant, train remotely, sell remotely, so they are spending more time walk around playing than visiting towns.
This takes thought to implement, especially when designing events. They would rather just plop down fast travel and not worry about it.
I do agree fast travel between cities is needed, if they are far apart.
It's about time you play those games for ONCE before making judgments on a game's world by reading posts.
But perhaps it's a habbit : commenting on games without touching them: you already play GW2 since 2007, isn't it ?
Forum play and in game play, you wouldn't believe the difference.
that doesnt help. there is nothing to explore. the games are very refined. you are not supposed to be an adventurer in an open virtual world. you are an acter in a virtual adventure-movie and you have to follow this damn storybook. dont try more, it doesnt make any sense.
did you ever hear, that John Wayne was exploring Arizona during his filming of a western?
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
What you guys don't understand, is that having the option to fast-travel kills the wonder of the slow one. There's nothing dangerous or challenging in getting to the nextr city (even on foot in most games today) and that little thrill you got, when you actually got there, knowing, that anyone can do that in a matter of seconds, via a teleport. That just... Cheapens it.
Also those kind of fetch-quests, that send you all around the game world really make it lose it's scope. Wait a minute...
Here's another problem with fast-travel. The worlds have lost it's scope. You don't see it as a single world anymore, but more as... Destinations, I guess. What's the point then?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I enjoy exploring. I have recently had a great time aimlessly exploring in Darkfall and Warhammer. Was exciting to find things I'd never heard of, creatures I'd never seen. By why would I impose that on others that would find it boring? That is selfish and game killing. I've yet to see an MMO that forced me to use fast travel.
I did like GW's implementation, even if it was an overly instanced world, where you had to slow travel first to unlock different fast travel locations.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I agree with you and i think Vanguard has that kind of world thout.Huge and pretty world to explore
It's funny, but this is an area that FFXI did well. Even though there were some fast travel options, they were limited as to where they took you and you still had to foot it. Even riding a faster chocobo to each zone took awhile and it really helped with immersion in that game.
Hey how about trying RF online its easy to travel in doing your quest or if u want to hunt Pit Bosses.
That's why most games do things the way they do. When you're low-level and new, you have to walk just about everywhere, you're forced to explore because you can't move any faster. Once you get to higher levels, you have more options to move faster, mostly because your destinations are farther out and, let's face it, you've seen all the places you're travelling through before. It's fun the first couple of times to explore a new area. Once you've been through it dozens or even hundreds of times, not so much.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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I don't miss exploration since I play games that do not have easy fast-travel. I recommend that you do the same. There are a few out there. I was pretty upset when Vanguard added fast-travel . .. when it first came out the sense of exploration was awesome and traveling to a different continent was quite an adventure.
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I find this kind of thinking to be pretty sad and a little pathetic. You give up on a fun challenge just because a less challenging way exists to do the same thing. That's like saying that running a marathon is being cheapened by the fact that you can take a taxi to the same destination.
I can understand if your complain is that the content does not lend itself well to exploration. However, complaining that exploring is not fun because not everyone has to do it, is just sad.
Point taken. I could've probably said it better.
There's another problem - a lot off modern games have nothing to explore at all.
Also, at least for me, one big point of exploration is meeting random strangers along the way, who might be going in the same general directions and banding together, for extra safety, and all that. I don't know, I find that really immersive.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
The last game I enyoyed exactly because there was real exploration adn real adventure was Vanguard. Maybe I enjoyed exploring and the adventure even more than in Ultima. I'm not sure if can touch that feeling in MMO again.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
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LordOfDarkDesire
Play Darkfall Online there is no other game world like it. No part of the map is the same. One day you will be riding and see a massive castle occupied by npc's and the next you can be sailing a ship along the coast and see a massive building with its own dock and road leading to it. Is it a player city? No just there to add to the world. Eventually sites like this will be explained in the lore.
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I agree with the others who are saying fast traveling is not the problem. Its the complete lack of anything to explore. EQ orginal and Kunark were a blast to explore. Unique mobs, dungeons and items all over the place.
My goal with Emergence is to make several different areas, far apart from one another.
And each area is good enough to play the entire game in. This means there is no requirement for traveling, besides exploration, trade, and going to a new area. The core is the same...but the areas and theme are very different. This is INSTEAD of multiple servers. Why have 10 servers when you could have one, absolutely massive gameworld- with each of the 10 servers being slightly different?
This isn't very hard for developers either. It's no different than having 10 separate servers, each with unique cities. The problem with developers not being able to handle this is that they didn't build the game from the ground up with this in mind. Simply put, zone construction needs to be modular in some aspects.
Take a 4 colored square. One square is all blue, the next red, orange, purple. Each square is cut in four pieces. You can switch out these pieces, making a square with 2 blues and 2 reds, or 1 blue, 1 red, and 2 yellows, etc. Suddenly out of just 4 modular parts, you can make 64 different squares! So you create 4 zone sections, with 4 environmental types (snow, fire, forest, regular), and you have 64 combinations.
So what if you made modular parts modular? Each zone is comprised of...
1) Four different sections of over 10 environment types (Forest, Plains, Barren, Desert/Snowy, Mountains, Jungle, Town, Cave, Lake, Swamp)
2) Multiple Monster Factions to fill each environment (Goblins, Orcs, Kobolds, Wyverns, Ratlings, Lizardmen, Zombies, Skeletons, Liches)
3) Weather Effects (Rain, Snow, Cold/Hot, Windy)
4) Population Size, Strength, and Growth Rates for each Live Faction.
5) 1-3 Dungeons per Zone
6) Seasonal Change
7) Zone-Specific Rare Resources (Black Iron, Valorite Ore, Ice Ore, Enchanted Dust, Hardened Wood)
The combinations are endless. You venture to the North to find a forest, filled with different tree types from the one you are used to. Your home forest, pine trees with werewolves infesting them. These trees are apple and oak, with elves and goblins fighting amongst each other. To the east of the forest of your home forest, is your home town full of npc's. To the east of this forest, an undead graveyard.
The dungeons in your home zone were a Cave with a Wyvern Boss, and a Cave with a Goblin King. This zone's dungeon is a Haunted Mansion behind the Graveyard, and an extremely thick Magical Forest which is rumored to be impossible to find.
You leave your home zone every winter, because the mobs there become sparse and resources are low. There is little to do there in the winter, except fear the overpowered ice dragons roaming around the mountains south. This zone is thriving in the winter, since it produces Ice Ore, a magical ore used to make ice weapons.
Each zone has different resources, which can be more or less difficult to harvest. With modular effects and environmental utility, each zone can act differently than the next. In Zone 1, it takes 50 lumberjacking to harvest Hardened Wood. In Zone 2, there is no Hardened Wood, only regular Wood. In Zone 3, the trees have more fragile bark making it easier to cut, requiring only 30 lumberjacking to harvest Hardened Wood there.
Some areas or shops require [x] Charisma skill or [y] Strength to enter. In Zone 1, the requirement is 60 charisma/strength. In zone 2, the towns people are friendlier and the rocks lighter- requiring only 40 cha/str.
"Modular Variables" is what I call it.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
To be fair, Blizzard designs things like Thanksgiving with the idea of x minutes worth of total travel time.
In a game without fast travel, Blizzard would design it to be the same x minutes -- you just wouldn't see as many or as varied locations as you currently do, because you'd travel less distance.
In a way, this provides more evidence in favor of fast travel, as the Thanksgiving event would be less interesting if you only traveled within a small proximity of where the quest starts (and so you'd see less interesting terrain variety.)
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