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Duel Targeting?
cybertrucker
Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
in Rift
Anyone know if they are planning on putting Duel Targeting IE defensive target and offiensive target like Vanguard had? If so it will make this game even more appealing. Right now I have my eye on this game and GW2 as a possible go to game.
Comments
It has single targeting.
That sucks.... ohh well. It was one of the best features in Vanguard. I was also glad that they put it in WAR which I led the charge for in that game during the early stages of beta. While they were thinking about using ToT and I was posting everyday on the beta forums for Dual Targeting, which is what they ended up using.
its single and implied target - like it is in EQ2
Hmmm. maybe the beta testers can convince them to put in dual targeting. As has been said, offensive and defensive targets in VG rocked. Makes life so much easier for support/healers.
They've brought it up and said they aren't doing it. They have target, target of target, focus target, etc., but not offensive and defensive targets. They aren't doing it. It actually goes against one of their goals, which is accessibility.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
BOOYAKA!
Yeah, I'm not sure how this would do anything but increase accesibility. Also anyone have a link to this targeting info?
For a lot of people it might be great. It depends on Trion's target audience. Most people have never even heard of Vangard, much less played it. It might seem counterintuitive, but one multifunction thing is often easier to use than two single function things. You'd have to get a psychologist to explain why. I think it has to do with not splitting your attention between different things or allowing your brain time to switch between two different focus points effectively. But I'm not a psychologist, I only slept at a Holiday Inn once.
I think it's a neat idea, but not so neat that I think it's an evolutionary step beyond a Focus Target (which is included). I bet with scripting, you could always have friendly targets you click on be your Focus and unfriendly targets be your Target. I wonder if that already exists for WoW?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Dual targetting allows for some amazing mechanics that could probably be impossible or badly implemented such as the Archmage class in WAR or some other similar in Vanguard. I really don't see any disadvantage of dual targeting over single targeting.
The only issue I could see is that it would be unfamiliar to a lot of Trion's potential audience. It deviates from the pretty standard MMO interface. Trion has said they aren't trying to recreate the wheel, or make it more round than round. They've spent more time on the environment and the character development than the UI or new mechanics. I think it's that playing a character in Rifts will feel familiar, but the environment, the story and the interactions will be new. I can respect that. They want to build something that works right out of the gate instead of a year after release.
I think it's a neat idea, but I can't see how it would make my experience very different. Could you describe the dual target mechanics and how it differs from single target mechanics? I've never played Vanguard, so in my mind, I'm not seeing anything different or actually doing anything different by having the two different targets.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Never used it much in either WAR or Vanguard to any great benefit. It doesn't feel as good in practice as it looks in theory imo. Complexity isn't always a good thing. Single target is easier to control and target calling or -broadcasting is simpler when there's only one target. Nothing wrong with simple.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I have to say, Dual Targeting is one of the greatest innovations I've seen in recent MMO technology.
In WAR, playing a Warrior Priest, I could have both an enemy target and friendly target selected at the same time. Let's say I have our tank selected as my friendly target, and I have the enemy mob selected as my enemy target. If I cast a heal, the heal is immediately applied to my friendly target, if I cast an offensive spell, my enemy target gets hit. I never have to click or tab around to switch targets.
Same in Vanguard. The system was incredibly useful for the Bloodmage (which is the best healing class of all time, I might add).
The first time I experienced this targeting system, it was new and different, but after I understood it and played with it, I have wished for it in every MMO I play. If the game doesn't use it, that's fine. But it would be a huge boon if they did implement it.
It doesn't have so much to do with complexity as much as allowing for more advanced mechanics. The Archmage in WAR for example like the other guy said, is a mix of damage and healing, with damage you can do healing and with healing you can damage. An ability that comes off the top of my head which is possible with dual targeting is drain life from the enemy feeding it to your ally, other ability mechanics could have to do with aggro. Seeing as Trion is aiming for a vast class system, there could be at least 1-2 souls that could make use of this mechanic in the cleric calling to allow the calling to be more versatile but it could also be used in other callings and abilities too. I haven't played Vanguard but I have played WAR, other people have played something else which features this inarguably better mechanic, it's pretty much a standard in today's traditional MMOs.
Some other examples:
Vanguard's Bloodmage: primarily the Bloodmage drained "blood" or hitpoints from the enemy target, which was then used to heal the friendly target.
WAR's Warrior Priest: the Warrior Priest had a really cool melee attack that would heal any friendly targets within range of its currently selected friendly target. The Warrior Priest also was big on applying short duration buffs to their friendly target, which were only triggered by using specific melee attacks. So the Warrior Priest was most effective as a support class with both an enemy target and friendly target selected at the same time.
Like revy66 said, this targeting system opens up new opportunities for more advanced class/skill mechanics.
It does bring a new mechanic to the table but it is hardly inarguable. Adding complexity is not always a good thing. One thing to consider is usability. One can achieve nearly the same with single target system using bond-like enchantments like "bonds" in Guild Wars. The major downside is that it is far more rigid than allied target system but it is a compromise.
"...standard in today's traditional MMOs..." is quite weak statement to say the least. For example the QWERTY-keyboard is not the best keyboard around despite its popularity. If you want to read further on the subject, google "DVORAK".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Thats absolutely absurd.. It in no way makes gameplay more complex. It makes things easier and more accessible in everyway. It allows things such as Melee based healers do their job in the middle of combat with out the worry of making a mistake and selecting the wrong mob once they switch to heal, then want to start attacking the mob again.
Dual Targeting is absolutely THE best and easiest form of targeting that has been introduced in any MMO.
Example of how it compares to TOT.
Cleric using TOT is healing. Heals are being applied to the tank, who has multiple mobs hitting him. A lone mob breaks and goes after a DPSer or CC.. Healer is trying to assist the tank and heal the tank. However the mob he was assisting with is now targeted on another target so heals instead of going to the tank where they are needed are going to the other player who only has one mob on him. Tank Dies from cleric losing his desired healing target.
Same Instance using Dual Targeting... Cleric is using an occasional nuke to help assist tank. He has tank targeted as his Defensive target. Easy enough to do by clicking on the tank in the group window... Mobs move wherever they want his heals will always go to the tank if that is who he has targeted. While the cleric is free to choose other enemy mobs.
Regular targeting system. Cleric is attempting to heal tank but would actually like to assist in doing a little damage as well. has to continuously swith targets non stop..
Dual targeting is by far the best targeting system developed. For those who sit here and say it is more complex have obviously never played Vanguard or WAR to see how it is implement. Try playing a Disciple of Khain effectively without it, or a warrior priest in WAR or a Disciple or Bloodmage in Vanguard without it.. They would not be nearly as good of a class period.
Is Duel Targeting where you target someone and they have no choice but to fight you to the death?
Oh, right.
Dual targeting doesn't seem like it's all that big of a deal. It does add complexity, but not very much. You can add some mechanics to a game with it, but they aren't mind blowing and it's certainly something you could do with existing targeting mechanics. However, none of that matters.
It was brought up in interview with Trion, and they said they weren't doing it. They already have lots of targeting mechanics in the game and it follows the pretty standard stuff - Target, Target of Target, Focus Target, etc. They didn't go so far as to say they'll never do it, but I don't see them adding features from underperforming niche titles.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.