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Have MMOs Lost Their Magic??
MysteryB
Member UncommonPosts: 355
Basically its what the title says, have MMOs lost what made them so good for us as players? Let me explain.
When I first played City of Heroes I knew nothing about MMOs, I just dove into this world that I knew nothing about but wanted to find out everything I could about it. I read the backstories, read every part of every mission, spend hours creating my character and so on.
The same happened with Everquest where I remember just wanting to explore that world and see it all.
With WoW it happened again, I remember dueling friends for hours just for fun or finding that new piece of armor that made me feel like nothing else could.
But sadly, most of that stuff is just a memory now.
With MMOs today like Aion, Age of Conan and so on I start off liking the games, alot, but I dont get absorbed in them. With Aion I tried, I read the lure, I created my character deeply, but I couldnt get that feeling that I had when I started WoW, CoH and EQ. I went straight to skipping the story and trying to level as fast as possible. Finding rare armor was cool, but it was just like an oh thats cool not like it used to be where if I found a blue or purple item I almost slew my toad (rhymn it).
While I cant say what game I recently got into the closed beta of a certain MMO that got delayed. I had been looking foward to this game and thought it was my game, but after a month of being in the beta it is just an icon on my desktop. The account still works, the game is still going, and the reason I dont play it hardly at all is simply because it is boring. This game has been in the works for over 5 years and in developement for over 3 years and after 1 month I am bored with it. I love MMOs and I remember how the old MMOs used to make me feel, they had that magic feeling like the first Halo did or like Final Fantasy VII did.
Have MMOs truly lost their magic?
Mystery Bounty
Comments
I think so yes.
One of my issues right now getting into MMO's. I been playing MMO's since DAOC. When I first started playing WOW during the end of Vanila leveling felt so good. When I got blues it was a huge thing and I felt so good about it. When BC came out it was somewhat the same, but you could tell things were getting a bit easier and lot more casual. Now WOW has turned into a casuals dream. Other gaming companies are trying to go the same route and build their MMO''s towards the casual gamer. Back when DAOC and EQ were big the only people that really played were computer people. Now everyone and there dad plays MMO's. There seems to be only a small hand full of in depth MMO's and even they seem to be on the way out.
I would do anything to have WOW vanilla, DAOC, EQ, VG all mixed into one amazing MMO that is geared towards people that just dont want things handed to them.
I miss working for something and it a shame that the casual "I want it now" gamer period has come.
i think one problem is when you are no longer a noob to mmos it may feel like it lost its magic. i played wow a while back a little bit and it felt incredible and wanted to explore and all that. Well recently i rolled a new character and havent played it for years and now since i know so much more about mmos, i run grab quests, i know about how all he mechanics work of mmos so it feels like it has lost its magic. the whole newness of mmos arent there anymore which i think hurts experienced players enthusiasm in games now. also people are stuck on there first few mmos they played, it reminds me of music so much, people love the music they grew up on more than the music released now.
True but some games like wow where you pickup a quest from a guy who pretty much blinks on your map and has a huge sign on his head saying "Quest" and then being told exactly where to go via the map is a lot different then other games where you have to think about the quest giver and figure out where the quest is and if you need more then one person to complete it.
I completely agree!
The get boring so fast now. Everquest was my first mmo. I met my wife on it. We both agree that the games now get boring real real fast.
Too casual may be the problem. Wow was fun almost until BC came out. We returned during Wotlk and got 3 80's in 2 months... Than quit again. Than we played Project1999 for a year and I still play that. Waiting for kunark. Everquest classic is still the best mmorpg ever made.
Games are too easy to solo in, classes are too balanced.
Itemization is terrible. Things aren't rare , mobs don't drop a 1 in 10,000 sword with crazy dps. etc. etc. I could go on and on about rare spawns and rare loots. This is the meat of the mmorpg.
Items have Level requirements : This kills the fun of making alts and Twinking them out.. "so fun , for so many of us"
I have to be a certain level to wear a hat ??? that makes no sense to me. In real life I don't say o shit , I have to be 34 years old to put those shoes on .... Hell no I can put those shoes on at 1 year old or 90 years old....
Internet sites that have all the information: You never feel the sense of discovery or adventure. Just look up the zone/mobs/strats or fall behind.
Leveling is super easy: No death penalties , no need to group , most people do repetitive quests to level instead of killing hard mobs for xp and adventuring in dungeons. Questing to level is deadly to mmorpg's being fun for us. It was fun until we completed 30943024932904903290 quests.
We hope and pray that an mmorpg will bring back the fantasy of mmorpg's. I felt like I was in the world. I was an extension of my first character. The community knew you , good or bad. You had unique looks and choices for stats. Noone was a cookie cutter. You got scared in dangerous areas. You wondered what loot a mob could drop.
Than again the eq people made the game for the love of the game. Wow made the mmorpg for the love of their franchise. Now These same games are only in it for the MONEY. Not making the game fun. But making the game profitable.
everquest classic < EQOA PS2 < World of Warcraft first year > those are the best and only fun mmorpg's I've played and I have played them alllllll.
Yes I need a life , but I now have one thanks to nothing good to play. Thank god P1999 is in it for the love of the genre and not for the money like the rest of the mmorpg industry. Wow was great to get soo many people into mmorpg's when they were dieing. Now we have to deal with every mmorpg being the exact same as Wow trying to make a buck.
www.myspace.com/solidwhitetuna
Exactly......
Vanguard is an amazing game, but is not "easy" like mmo's now. So only people who truly enjoy in depth mmo's play it. Now when I look at it I see an amazing game that SOE could easily make into loving game for even more players, but because its all about money to them, its pretty much gone to the crapper because they know that the market now is for the casual, easy, i want my epics now people.
Totally agree with the previous posters,MMO are becoming too easy and too casual thus defeating the sole purpose of an MMORPG.They make everything become so trivial.
Vanilla WoW was the last game which still had a soul and from then it spiraled downwards.I still have hopes that 38 studios might bring back the magic and if they fail,I will be done with MMO.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Agreed with everyone here, I guess its just a combination of things. Really it is dumb what MMOs have become, who says you have to have quest givers with ! above their heads and hunt 10 of this than return it? Noone, yet all games go by that formula now it seems. The problem is these companies arent willing to risk going outside the box, they might make a few changes here and there but noone is willing to completely revamp the formula. Just like for years all RPGs were turn based only I think MMO companies take the formula that games like EQ, DAoC and WoW put in place and just try to tweak it a little where in reality what we need is just a new way to do things.
For instance in WoW you get a flying mount and put it on your hot bar, click lets say the number 0 to activate it and you can fly, than on City of Heroes you get the flying power and click 0 to activate it, all games are running the same they just disguise the way they run. I think as gamers we are sick of disguises and we want a real new experience like MMOs gave us when we first started.
Mystery Bounty
1) There is no community in MMO's any longer. Why should players cooperate? What baring does it have on the game or the game world? In todays MMO(so called RPG's) it is all about gear - period. Look at Aion, look at AoC, look at WoW...it revolves around obtaining gear! WTF! When did these games become games about acquiring gear?! Look at WoW for instance. It is suppose to be the World of "Warcraft"...today it is the World of Gearcraft. There is no "War" there any longer. World PvP is not existant. Cataclysm will not change this. Server imbalances are far to great across a vast majority of servers and Blizzard does nothing to fix this. Instead their answer is instanced BG's. BG's are pointless. They have no baring on the game world other than some nice buffs now and then.
Games need to get back to giving us persistent game "worlds"! Yes worlds that change...remember how Dereth changed? Once a month a new chapter was released and the world changed and sometimes the players caused the changed.
I would like to see a game world created that allowed us players to actually have an impact on the world around us...and I am not talking arbituary impact or pre-defined or scripted impact - I'm talking about players being able to raid a village and raze it to the ground. Or players over hunting a zone. Or players neglecting the bandits that are growing in number that eventually take over a town or city. I am talking about players having to contribute to the well being of the community in which their character calls home. Players that do not help in the maintaining of the communities resources or well being - recieve no benefit from that village. Only the ones that actually contribute benefit.
2) Worlds are becoming more and more static and themparky. Instead of dynamic virtual worlds we're getting themparked, linear play lands. Gone are the days of the Dereths.
3) Cookie cutter classes and magic rules all! OMG I am so sick of cookie cutter class designed games and everyone can use magic and can heal and do it all! Why have game designers done this? Makes no sense. Look at the direction GW2 is going. No need for healers...your character can do it all! ::rolls her eyes::
You know what...MMO's are becoming less about role-playing and more about achievemnet badges and gear and as I have said in previous post about what I am looking for in agame. Give me a game world as massive as Telon, with game mechanics and play of Mount and Blade, mixed with Ultima Online and Age of Empires and I'll never play any other MMORPG.
current formula for making mmos (generaly speaking):
Step one, buy an IP
Make a lineear grindy singleplayer game that requires no community effort
Make sure you screw your IP beyond recognition
Decide to cut costs and release a game with half the intended content and halving the amount of exp gained from mobs/quests
Charge a subscription
MMOs today are just seen as cash cows, the idea that everything is soloable just ruins the only thing MMOs had going for them given their substandard gameplay and subsiption requirements; Socialisation
The players lost their magic
)))
The problem is because you play the WOW copies and frankly when playing Lotrro for 3 weeks I already knew this moment was going to come.
Since then it only became worse.
Of course you get fed up with playing the copy. When you are already bored with playing WOW, you are not going to find long term fun with a bad copy with 10 times less options. Most of you guys play the alternative as a statement, but making a statement is not even a substitute for fun.
Yeah but "WAR" has better PvP: bullshit. I was there, their Bg's were terrible. their RvR lakes empty and their responsiveness was lousy. it couldn't even hold a light against what WOW offered me in PvP controls.
Yeah but "Lotro" has better quests. Bullshit. Since the mechanics are less (no underwater, no flying, no phasing, np pvp) their choices are far too limited to even have similar quests with these elements in it.
Yeah but "Aion" has better leveling. Nuts. You don't play to "gain levels" these days. You play to have fun and find multiple ways to level: from picking flowers to level purely on dungeons or PvP.
---
You - as players blew it for yourselves.
I don't have pity. In each of these games published in the last 5 years, I can find only the dullest things I could already do in WOW.
And everytime Blizzard finds a useful new mechanic (phasing, cross server gameplay), the rats are out to trash talk it, while their "statement games" leave behind the dullest of the dullest moments.
Of course those games didn't bring anything new to the table. : you blew it.
)
Well, the biggest issue for me is that with the "second generation" of MMOs, EQ2 and WoW changed the direction of the genre dramatically from "create a new and different game" to "refine the formula". It's has certainly had some positive effects as the standards for polish and playability have gone way up from a previously buggy and unreliable industry.
But it's had a greater detrimental effect in that innovation in the industry came to a nearly total stop.
In the first generation, if you went from EQ1 to Anarchy Online to DAoC to CoH to SWG to AC to most other games, you would have found drastically different games and worlds. In 2-nd generation games, if you go from EQ2 to WoW to AION to LoTRO to AoC to Vanguard, you'll find pretty much the same game with a little bit of flavour to differentiate it.
The industry has been ready for a "next generation" for years now. Back when AoC, War and Vanguard were all scheduled to come out, the world was ready to hail them as "next-gen" MMOs, but they failed to deliver much beyond what was readily available on the market already. Since then, people have been a lot more cautious with throwing around "next generation of MMO" and if one were to look at the major upcoming releases like Rift and SWTOR, they're very clearly not going in any new directions.
This is why games lack "soul", because you go to find a "strange new world", but in turn find a slightly coloured version of the game that you were already playing.
I'm not really seeing anything that makes me think that things will change dramatically in the next little while either. It's nice to see that games like Rift and GW2 are once again trying to push forward dynamic content and maybe with enough small steps, we'll end up with a truly next-gen game a few years down the road.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I don't think MMO's have lost their magic. They're just not new to you, anymore. It's no longer a big deal to have a sprawling world to run around in.
What's more, when the genre was new, you had no idea what was in store for you when you went out exploring. And now you know. For me, there were plenty of surprises around in the better games, but in the end it was just more, different environments. For example, in CoX, you wouldn't find yourself flying around one day, see a plane's engines go out, and have to see about preventing it from crashing. Nope, you just see different looking buildings that you can't explore, and villains with different costumes. And if you walk up to them, they'll probably attack you.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not shaming MMO developers for having doors you can't open or jets to catch; I know that you can't make EVERYTHING explorable/manipulable, and that there's not alot of point in making it so if a particular building, for example, has no purpose. But once you realize this, the "magic" of MMO's fades away to simple, technologically limited reality.
Just my opinion. That's why, while I expect to like SWTOR, I don't expect to have the same feeling I had when I was hooked on SWG back on '04. I probably will enjoy it, but it won't be the same.
For once I could agree on the stinging death penalty. But frankly it is only a limited issue.
You all play the same games, that' the core problem. That game was perfected and upgraded since 6 years.
I can uderstand people playing WOW and EVE or WOW and Potbs or WOW and World of Tanks (or replace Wow with EQ if you are allergic to it).
I don't understand why they would play Aion, Lotro, War, Aoc at all. In every inch these games are less than the game everyone else plays.
Making a statement by playing these games is not a substitute for fun. Helas.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I agree that death penalties need to affect the game again. Like in EQ when you lost exp or lost a level it almost made you want to cry! Now upcoming games like DC Universe Online arent even having death they are having KO's and the only minor penalty is armor repair. Alot of games are like that now, in WoW armor repair is a ***** when your low level and arent twinking, but it isnt anything major.
With millions of do-overs there is no reason people care about death so the games become to easy.
Mystery Bounty
i recently had a similar feeling as the OP. tried quite a few mmos after burning out on WoW but they every single one would capture my interest less and less. i was serioulsy starting to think i was getting completely tired of the whole genre.
then i played MO.
not joking here, for the first 2 months this game was just so fresh and exciting, even after playing games like DF. it just felt like a completely new thing and i started hoping again. ......unfotunately the company behind the game is absolutely cluless and incompetent and this basicly forced me to leave the game after about 4 months. such an awesome game completely ruined by a company that just doesn't know how to code.
if anything at least i got back some of that magic feeling even thou it didn't last all that long. now i can belive that the magic can come back it only takes some innovative ideas and some dedicated talent and with some luck great mmos will be made again. hopefuly sometime soon.
Its not magic. Its the most obvous reason in the world...
Old players are tired of the cookie cutter quests.
PvE which ultimately is the building blocks of most mmo's is dumb.
Kill X# Gather X# Take here Take there, its redundant and played out.
Dungeons are the same...mostly linear progressions and button mashing.
I say add some Tomb Raider like puzzles, and some depth to questing and voila!
Also PvP which can supplement PvE is always an afterthought, so if PvE is the fore thought and none is giving to it, how great could PvP possibly be?
It all boils down to intellectualism and mediocrity
Some people enjoy repetitive things, it clears their mind.
Some enjoy thought provoking challenges, it makes them feel smart.
I think mmo's are totally repetitive by nature, not saying that it is a must for the genre. Its as simple as risk vs reward.
Why invest lots of money into something that has not been proven to generate revenue. That = High risk= Potential for no reward
Invest money into something that has been proven to statistically appeal to a certain demographic=Low risk=moderate to high reward
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Perhaps,
BUt I also worry: "Have I grown up to the point that I can no longer appreciate Magic when it is there"
Perhaps both
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
My two loves in the MMO world were UO and DAOC. After that I just didn't feel the same about the other ones I have played (and I have played alot of them). What happened to me, and talking to others and reading forums, is that UO and DAOC were something that I had never played before. UO specifically because you created your character, and you could literally be anything you wanted to be, there were no class systems, it was an alternate life to my own real one. I believe it was when WoW came out when I started getting a little bit angered at the MMO world. Millions of players stormed into the industry when WoW came out. The prior MMO's had been forgotten, except for those of us who played them, and plenty of us got the same feeling. We had lost that feeling about MMO's. What needs to happen is MMO's need to go back pre-WoW, and some of them are trying, the only problem is the MMO community now expects easy leveling, no community, and uber items. Unfortunately, these are not what made UO or DAOC great for me. It was working hard and accomplishing something along with friends. Sure I'll continue to try new ones, Fallen Earth and Darkfall right now, but I don't believe I will ever delve into an MMO like UO or DAOC. Thanks WoW! Thanks for setting the standard for the crap shoot that the MMO industry has spilled out.
I am not sure I understand your point about making a "statement" Arnstrong. I play EQ2 and LotRO for fun with Real-Life friends. Never played WoW, nor care to.
I completely understand your point about all the games today being the same. Some of it goes as far back as PnP games: levels, hitpoints, abilities, to-hit rolls, etc. What's funny is that there are some PnP games that had very different rule sets, but DnD had the biggest market share and that system continues to dominate the market today. WoW has done the same thing.
Just like the PnP games, to find the cool and innovative MMOs, one has to get away from the beaten path, check out the dusty shelves, find the less popular games. I used to collect PnP games, making mental notes on their mechanics. There were PnP games that didn't even dice...
My frustration with MMOs that differs from PnPs is that there's no Game Master to adjust, ignore or replace stupid rules. I don't think I ever played a DnD session using even a majority of it's combat system... Many PnP games were only tolerable to play because of the skills of the Game Master. In MMOs the "Game Master" is a bunch of underpaid, overworked developers, who are just cronies to their game's Marketing Department.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
For me they have because developers are trying force mmorpgs into cookie cutter single player rpg box, and I am not referring to the whole solo vs grouping.
For many years now the only true difference between online and offline rpgs is computer controlled vs player controlled allies. The current mmorpg and single player rpg formula: preset classes, preset roles, preset group content, linear level progression, linear gear progression, linear story where you are the choose hero = mmorpg and/or rpg success.
But the problem for mmorpgs is as single player rpgs expands on their strengths mmorpgs flounder because they do not share the same strengths.
I think developers really need to take a hard look at what mmorpgs strengths are and stop trying to copy single player rpgs so much. So they haven't really lost their magic just misplaced it. IMHO
This notion that you need a sandbox game is ludicrous!!! The idea that even in PnP games a DM would let players destroy (for ever and ever) something they spent Hours, designing and populating is beyond stupid.
Many of you will poo-poo this idea but the biggest issue with MMORPGs is the idea that they need PvP. These games are supposed to be about working together to overcome obstacles, not comparing johnson-size while the world falls apart around you. And because MMORPGs incorporated the Duke Nukem mentality, they are dividing their resources and not making the best games. MMORPG's are essentially Germany in WWII fighting a two front war and destined to fail. If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it's mistakes.
A while back I sort of figured it wasn't the games as much as it was me. I started off with DAoC as a young teenager and loved it. Then I played SWG and you couldn't keep me off the game. Then I moved to my most beloved MMO FFXI but took a break and played L2 for about a year.
The thing was all these games were so drastically different form eachother and I loved all of them almost to the point of beign obsessive or addicted. (ok i was obsessed and addicted) Now it seems like everything new game I try I feel I've done it before already. WoW never really tickled my fancy and anything that resembles it's formula remotely I lose interest with immediately. Why play a copy of a game I don't like? I doubt it will be better.
So I figured with how games are now and the direction they seem to be moving it's not them it's me. I just don't get as involved anymore and don't have the time too either. So until something earth shattering comes out that isn't anything like the games I loved or anything like the ones I didn't like, I think I'll stick to console games and FPS because lets face it they take up a whole lot less time.
I also think that the gamer themselfs have changed a lot, yet some of us havent changed at all. The MMO community has changed a lot and very fast. A lot of people that play WOW now dont even know what DAOC is (i know because i asked at work lol). These new breed of people want the insta fun they get out of there console games. Ask a console gamers if they have played the same game for over a year. They would laugh so hard. then ask them if they have put in 10-12 hours a day on a console game. When those players come to MMO's they want that 1-3 hour a day instant gratification. Traditional MMO's have been that you work hard at what you get and you enjoy and feel good about doing it. I dont blame companies like Blizz who are pushing there games towards these 1-3 hour a day people, because lets be honest theres probably more of them. Unfortunetly for the rest of us we get screwed. For you people who enjoy the quick casual give me my loot now game play thats great, but IMO thats not what MMO's are made for. When I spend days/weeks/months trying to get specific sword/armor/shield im going to feel damn good about it when I get it. When I played WOW in wrath it was really disappointing to me because I spent all this time in Vanilla,BC, and the starting of wrath getting all this nice gear and leveling up, then someone who has never played the game before plays for a month or two and gets 80 then runs instances all the time has better gear then me. Sure I had a ton of fun doing it, but come on now its really a kick in the ass when you see that.
I guess what im saying in this wall of text is that MMO's were once something you enjoyed because you felt like you accomplished something.
The whole ideal of what an MMORPG is needs rebuilt, re-invisioned, from the ground up. Somewhere along the way, this genre lost its way. Did WoW do this, no all by itself, but it helped take the genre in a direction that was away from what I feel an MMORPG should be.
Gone are our characters we looked at as our alter egos. Adventurers, explorers,crafters, cut-throats and thieves. Gone is the real stuff that made you go to bed at night dreaming of the adventures you'll have the next day in a virtual world that held mystery and adventure around every corner. Today we get static worlds and NPC's standing in the same spot continuously with a "!" over their head. Really...is that what these games have come to? So tell me...how many times must I kill Ingvar? OMG...I am so sick of static worlds and static game play...the tech is out there to make dynamic worlds and make the world seem alive. We played games like Oblivion that actually had towns people going about their daily lives....but we cannot have this in an MMORPG? What about in Mount and Blade where Kingdoms are built and Kingdoms are conquered while you are going about your business in game? Can this not be put into an MMORPG? I think it can and I think many other things can be done in MMORPG's that would make current MMORPG's look like a circa 1999 console game.
One of my friends asked me why I love playing the game Mount and Blade Warband so much. I told him it was simple. The game play is superior to anything currently on the market and no two games ever play the same - ever. I just wish the game was deeper and and allowed for multiplayer in campaigns and not just for sieges and battles - but total game play. Modding helps make this happen and its fun creating my own worlds to play in. I can tell you this though...if I could only ever choose one game I had to play for the rest of my life - it sure as hell would not be WoW!
It would be Mount and Blade!