I was in the beta and fell in love with the game... putting up with the bugs because it was beta. But, after they pushed it out early ... and let it rot for a year, I gave up. While my station pass was active, I would drop in to see if things had changed, but too many of the bugs remained.
I was in the beta and fell in love with the game... putting up with the bugs because it was beta. But, after they pushed it out early ... and let it rot for a year, I gave up. While my station pass was active, I would drop in to see if things had changed, but too many of the bugs remained.
I really wanted it to succeed.
Ditto. I was in beta, loved the potential, but alas it did not come to pass. It was mismanaged from day 1. Selling out to SOE was the death blow because all SOE wants to do with it is let it rot so as not to take sus away from EQ2. Oh well, it could have been a fantastic game. I only stayed 8 months though before I gave it up. Sad, very sad story.
I will say this for VG, it has one of the most loyal group of diehards I've ever seen in any MMO...and are undoubtedly responsible for keeping the game going even as little as it is. But with no slight intended as I say this, that won't matter any.
SOE looks at this with ONE goal in mind, making $$$, and they don't want to make a good amount, they want a massive amount. It doesn't matter what could've been, its their license and they mishandled it admittedly but then, so what else is new for SOE? Their history speaks loud and clear on this, if the revenues drop below a magic number, they noticeably back off from funding, often to a very significant and noticeable detriment.
I don't hate Sony mind you, but anyone who doesn't recognize how greed driven they are is in denial. They don't think of profit margins like most other corps do, they're not looking for 'it all adds up' from their various streams of income, they look to dominate a given niche and crush opposition. Nor do they give a fig how loyal a customer is, you are just $ to them, nothing more or less, your opinion, feelings, none of that matters. So if the product fails to make their profit demands, the results is a given.
All corps have a profit model, they have to or they cease to exist, that's only natural. SOE's however is particularly damaging to our preferred hobby. One would think they would've learned a lesson or two when their crown got taken away by Blizzard (say what you will about WoW...but its kicking SOE's arse like a UMC beating up a snotty teenager in a cage match), but they're not nothing if not stubborn.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Vanguard is an awesome game now. Vanguard would do very well as a F2P model there is no doubt of that . Heck kids today will flock to pretty much any game that is Free to play. Problem is that people are begining to realize that F2P games aren't really free. Vanguard will not go F2P anyways cause SOE is not willing to bother with it. Vanguard was not originally programmed by SOE people and I have heard some of the code used to program it is really hard to work with and SOE is not going to allocate the time or the resources to convert this massive nightmare of programming to a decent F2P model. I just don't see it happening although it would be awesome if they somehow could pull it off. This is one of the reasons they never did much in the way of patching it or further developing it as well. Vanguard is prob one of the last old school MMO games left that takes me back to real MMO's. I actually think one of the main reasons SOE bought it in the first place was to keep anyone else from developing it and take awy from thier precious Everquest franchise. There is no doubt in my mind if someone else had of given Vanguard just a little love it would prob be one of the biggest MMO games in existance right now! It's really sad that the game got off to such a bad start in the first place. Sigil had a hit on thier hands at the time but failed to realize how much money and resources was really needed to pull it off properly. SOE has done a lot for the game since that failed launch so it's not exactly like they don't know how to program for it they just aren't going to do it. I still think it could be a great game in the right hands. Kinda wish they would just sell it to someone else...question is who would be willing to take it when it would prob cost about as much just to create a completly new game, personally I think Vanguard could easily be a completly new game in and of itself is handled properly. I don't know what else to say....
I have a 52 bard, Fogerty, who just sits in what I laughingly refer to as limbo. A self professed VG fanboy, I drooled over every scrap of news concerning VG since inception. I gobbled up the beta, practically cried on release day, I maxed leveled, I raided, I took a break.....rinsed, repeated. I absolutely love the game, it just LOST the player base. It had so much interest from so many people willing to break from the original EQ and EQII. No matter all the reasons, it doesn't (in it's current state) support itself financially. If the model can be switched to F2P with NO development, or another buyer could be sought (which I doubt SOE would entertain because of conflict of interest) then the game has a chance. Barring those two outside possibilities, it needs capital to survive; I'll admit that it in a perfect world it should have generated the revenue for it's own sustainability. We all know the circumstances surrounding this game, and what it COULD (there are no guarantees) be. The ultimate question is how it could be achieved. I've heard a lot of speculation and claims of implementing plans for longevity, but most proposals are incomplete and lack the complexity and preciseness that would count as due diligence in such an undertaking. I for one am praying for someone smarter than me to come along with a plan to keep the game going. If there were magic in the world and I could conjure up ten times the population it currently sports, and make it a $9.99 a month game with an expansion on the way, five full time dev's, and all the support it needs to get it up to snuff, I would love to watch it run. It's said that 'long is the race'. I hope someone comes up with something to save one of the best games available right now. Just my two coppers.
I sincerely hope SOE does not take Vanguard F2P, and here's why...
Originally posted by gigat I would love to see Vanguard go F2P, just not the same model as EQ2X. A model closer to DDO and LOTRO would be the best. EQ2X stinks of greed. Vanguard is one of my favorite games. I loved almost everything about Vanguard, except for the bugs and graphic anomalies.
EQ2X stinks of greed? After trying it out for a few weeks I agree.
But I am guessing you think/feel LotRO and DDO do NOT stink of greed?
To me they do, very much so... as much as EQ2X does. Sure the "advertisements" and the "arm twisting" is a little different in each game, but all give me the exact same "craving" after playing them for a half hour or so...
They make me want to throw my computer, my car, and my mother-in-law, through THEIR windows... and in that particular order.
I really REALLY DESPISE American capitalism and advertising, and I am American. If there was a country I thought I could go to to escape this stupidity I would, but guess who exported their culture everywhere else? We did. I will apologize right now for that...
I miss playing MMOs when the only time we thought about paying for anything with real life cash/credit was once a month, or even less if we paid quarterly or yearly. MMOs were FUN for me then because I could KEEP REAL LIFE OUT OF MY MMO!
EQ2X, LotRO, and DDO to me are three examples of how to take a great MMO and completely ruin it with commercialism. They are still great MMOS, but you know what they say...
"One "OH CRAP" wipes away 50 hearty slaps on the back"
Under NO circumstances would I ever want to see Vanguard be put through the F2P food processor.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Well the community can't have it both ways, personally I think the game has great potential and they don't necessarily have to reduce the difficulty of everything. But hardcore games just don't do well anymore and they haven't for a very long time. I would prefer they went f2p copying what Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRo. No second copy like EQ2E! But if they did that, they would probably bring in more money via a cash shop even if it was all mostly cosmetic, those types of things rake in the cash. This would of course mean they would need to put in a little more effort in putting out a significant update to go with the F2P relaunch of the game, and the only graphical "update" they'd need is to go back and finish the character model and animation revamp. The rest of the game is gorgeous and doesn't need much of anything right now. But I really think they are making a stupid mistake and missing out on a potentially huge profit by leaving Vanguard in the dust.
I agree that all they really have to do is to update some of the animations.
I would say that there is still an audience for hardcore games. and though I enjoy LOTRO, I really am starting to lean more toward wanting to have more hardcore games for my choosing.
I have kept a Vanguard account for quite some time and still play to this day albeit casually. I just love exploring the world and discovering all sorts of neat things. Heck, I even go into low level "dungeons" to just see what's there.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
vanguard is about play to achieve, this pay to achieve cash shop crap would kill it, if it wasnt already dead.
Condemning VG to the same unscruplous profiteering I have seen in EQ2's cash shop would make me sick.
My only hope for this game is for SOE just to sell it to a indie dev so it can be invested in, tweaked, and relaunched to become to game it should be... as long as SOE own it, it will never be worth playing.
A model that would revive VG but will never happen:
Restrict player to one character slot
Free up until level 30
After level 30, a sub of $7.99 a month
Plus mounts, xp pots, character slots, and cosmetic items in a cash shop as well as cheap misc items such as training manuals, etc... No pay to win crap, just cosmetic items and items that allow you to pay to speed leveling.
VG saved.
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future: Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 EverQuest NEXT Wizardry Online Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
SOE clings to monthly fee like a drowing to a plank. Only they fail to see the plank is rotten and will sink along with the rest, sooner or later. They need every failed MMO to keep that pretense that the Station Access has such a high value. So you pay lots of dollars and gets a plethora a mediocre MMOs.
SOE is the McDonalds of MMOs.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
SOE clings to monthly fee like a drowing to a plank. Only they fail to see the plank is rotten and will sink along with the rest, sooner or later. They need every failed MMO to keep that pretense that the Station Access has such a high value. So you pay lots of dollars and gets a plethora a mediocre MMOs.
Wish I had known all those years ago that VG was in many ways, EQ1's superior successor. F2P works for new releases and known releases but this game is mostly a handful of high level players and the occasional curious visitor that quits once he visits the ghost town like cities and sees no one in them but motionless NPCs.
Vanguard might as well be a glorified chat room because thats most the activity you see in this game.
I keep hoping for an emulator to pop up like they have for EQ1. Its obvious that SOE is only keeping this game for the Station Pass since they have put next to zero effort after 2009. Even though the game was too buggy for me to play in beta I got a new comp just to play it and loved the game. It just that when the game emptied out, much like the pc versionof DCU already has to a seemingly greater degree , it became harder to stay with and play. Vanguard is ment for grouping and needs a decent population so you can go where you want and find people to do stuff with. I doubt SOE will ever go back and show this game the love it deserves. Thats why I say yes to free to play.. as an emulator. Heck people form the community are likely to treat it better.
Everytime another game gets release and dissapoints as everything I've tried in the last 3 years has I go back and say why the heck can't someone give Vangaurd some love?
I have said it before, if Vanguard was a great a game as the rose-colored-glasses brigade seems to think it is, it wouldn't be in the state that it is now and has been for years. Wasting the time, money and resources to convert Vanguard to a f2p model won't save the game, because all the reasons for the dying subscriber base (and critical inability to attract and more importantly keep players) that currently exist are still going to be there. You would just be giving people another avenue to play a game without spending any money and dragging out the eventual demise of a game that should have shut down a long time ago..
We constantly see posts here at MMORPG.com where people say they would come back to Vanguard if it was free, so we already have a culture of Vanguard supposedly being good enough to play, but not good enough to pay for. So how would Vanguard going f2p help the game when there is a very good chance that it would be generating less revenue that it currently does as people don't want to pay to play it now, so why would they want to pay to play it for free.
Just pull the damn plug on this game already.
I actually find your logic lacking. Whether or not Vanguard is a great game aside, there are many examples of things which are very good, but don't catch on for some reason. In the case of Vanguard, it started out with a lot of problems that took so long to overcome, that most of the initial enthusiasts left. This led to very bad press at the time. Since then, they've fixed alot of things, but alas new games have come out, people have found new homes for their MMO dollars, and time has gone by.
Doesn't mean it isn't a good game, just means that things happen, and sometimes good things don't last.
I absolutely LOVE this game. Have so since it's first release. It's not a game for the easy gamer. I've been gaming since UO was released from Beta, and frankly, this has been the first one that grabed me since then.
I could choke Sony for what they've done. I feel they have intentionally been trying to kill the game for years. You are right, there has been no updates, no anything for a very long time. It has left the Vanguard community feeling abondoned. I have found myself coming and going from Vanguard. Always hoping that Sony would pick it up and see the potential it has. What a beautiful and unique game it is. The classes are so unique. The character creations are beautiful and way ahead of it's time.
Frankly, I don"t care what model they go to, free to play, or charge for plat... just work on it.. give it some love and attention. People will come and play. It's worth it.
Comments
I was in the beta and fell in love with the game... putting up with the bugs because it was beta. But, after they pushed it out early ... and let it rot for a year, I gave up. While my station pass was active, I would drop in to see if things had changed, but too many of the bugs remained.
I really wanted it to succeed.
Ditto. I was in beta, loved the potential, but alas it did not come to pass. It was mismanaged from day 1. Selling out to SOE was the death blow because all SOE wants to do with it is let it rot so as not to take sus away from EQ2. Oh well, it could have been a fantastic game. I only stayed 8 months though before I gave it up. Sad, very sad story.
I will say this for VG, it has one of the most loyal group of diehards I've ever seen in any MMO...and are undoubtedly responsible for keeping the game going even as little as it is. But with no slight intended as I say this, that won't matter any.
SOE looks at this with ONE goal in mind, making $$$, and they don't want to make a good amount, they want a massive amount. It doesn't matter what could've been, its their license and they mishandled it admittedly but then, so what else is new for SOE? Their history speaks loud and clear on this, if the revenues drop below a magic number, they noticeably back off from funding, often to a very significant and noticeable detriment.
I don't hate Sony mind you, but anyone who doesn't recognize how greed driven they are is in denial. They don't think of profit margins like most other corps do, they're not looking for 'it all adds up' from their various streams of income, they look to dominate a given niche and crush opposition. Nor do they give a fig how loyal a customer is, you are just $ to them, nothing more or less, your opinion, feelings, none of that matters. So if the product fails to make their profit demands, the results is a given.
All corps have a profit model, they have to or they cease to exist, that's only natural. SOE's however is particularly damaging to our preferred hobby. One would think they would've learned a lesson or two when their crown got taken away by Blizzard (say what you will about WoW...but its kicking SOE's arse like a UMC beating up a snotty teenager in a cage match), but they're not nothing if not stubborn.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Vanguard is an awesome game now. Vanguard would do very well as a F2P model there is no doubt of that . Heck kids today will flock to pretty much any game that is Free to play. Problem is that people are begining to realize that F2P games aren't really free. Vanguard will not go F2P anyways cause SOE is not willing to bother with it. Vanguard was not originally programmed by SOE people and I have heard some of the code used to program it is really hard to work with and SOE is not going to allocate the time or the resources to convert this massive nightmare of programming to a decent F2P model. I just don't see it happening although it would be awesome if they somehow could pull it off. This is one of the reasons they never did much in the way of patching it or further developing it as well. Vanguard is prob one of the last old school MMO games left that takes me back to real MMO's. I actually think one of the main reasons SOE bought it in the first place was to keep anyone else from developing it and take awy from thier precious Everquest franchise. There is no doubt in my mind if someone else had of given Vanguard just a little love it would prob be one of the biggest MMO games in existance right now! It's really sad that the game got off to such a bad start in the first place. Sigil had a hit on thier hands at the time but failed to realize how much money and resources was really needed to pull it off properly. SOE has done a lot for the game since that failed launch so it's not exactly like they don't know how to program for it they just aren't going to do it. I still think it could be a great game in the right hands. Kinda wish they would just sell it to someone else...question is who would be willing to take it when it would prob cost about as much just to create a completly new game, personally I think Vanguard could easily be a completly new game in and of itself is handled properly. I don't know what else to say....
I have a 52 bard, Fogerty, who just sits in what I laughingly refer to as limbo. A self professed VG fanboy, I drooled over every scrap of news concerning VG since inception. I gobbled up the beta, practically cried on release day, I maxed leveled, I raided, I took a break.....rinsed, repeated. I absolutely love the game, it just LOST the player base. It had so much interest from so many people willing to break from the original EQ and EQII. No matter all the reasons, it doesn't (in it's current state) support itself financially. If the model can be switched to F2P with NO development, or another buyer could be sought (which I doubt SOE would entertain because of conflict of interest) then the game has a chance. Barring those two outside possibilities, it needs capital to survive; I'll admit that it in a perfect world it should have generated the revenue for it's own sustainability. We all know the circumstances surrounding this game, and what it COULD (there are no guarantees) be. The ultimate question is how it could be achieved. I've heard a lot of speculation and claims of implementing plans for longevity, but most proposals are incomplete and lack the complexity and preciseness that would count as due diligence in such an undertaking. I for one am praying for someone smarter than me to come along with a plan to keep the game going. If there were magic in the world and I could conjure up ten times the population it currently sports, and make it a $9.99 a month game with an expansion on the way, five full time dev's, and all the support it needs to get it up to snuff, I would love to watch it run. It's said that 'long is the race'. I hope someone comes up with something to save one of the best games available right now. Just my two coppers.
Tyrust - EQ
Proximo - EQII
Proximo - Warhammer Online
Fogerty - Vanguard
I sincerely hope SOE does not take Vanguard F2P, and here's why...
EQ2X stinks of greed? After trying it out for a few weeks I agree.
But I am guessing you think/feel LotRO and DDO do NOT stink of greed?
To me they do, very much so... as much as EQ2X does. Sure the "advertisements" and the "arm twisting" is a little different in each game, but all give me the exact same "craving" after playing them for a half hour or so...
They make me want to throw my computer, my car, and my mother-in-law, through THEIR windows... and in that particular order.
I really REALLY DESPISE American capitalism and advertising, and I am American. If there was a country I thought I could go to to escape this stupidity I would, but guess who exported their culture everywhere else? We did. I will apologize right now for that...
I miss playing MMOs when the only time we thought about paying for anything with real life cash/credit was once a month, or even less if we paid quarterly or yearly. MMOs were FUN for me then because I could KEEP REAL LIFE OUT OF MY MMO!
EQ2X, LotRO, and DDO to me are three examples of how to take a great MMO and completely ruin it with commercialism. They are still great MMOS, but you know what they say...
"One "OH CRAP" wipes away 50 hearty slaps on the back"
Under NO circumstances would I ever want to see Vanguard be put through the F2P food processor.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I agree that all they really have to do is to update some of the animations.
I would say that there is still an audience for hardcore games. and though I enjoy LOTRO, I really am starting to lean more toward wanting to have more hardcore games for my choosing.
I have kept a Vanguard account for quite some time and still play to this day albeit casually. I just love exploring the world and discovering all sorts of neat things. Heck, I even go into low level "dungeons" to just see what's there.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
vanguard is about play to achieve, this pay to achieve cash shop crap would kill it, if it wasnt already dead.
Condemning VG to the same unscruplous profiteering I have seen in EQ2's cash shop would make me sick.
My only hope for this game is for SOE just to sell it to a indie dev so it can be invested in, tweaked, and relaunched to become to game it should be... as long as SOE own it, it will never be worth playing.
A model that would revive VG but will never happen:
Restrict player to one character slot
Free up until level 30
After level 30, a sub of $7.99 a month
Plus mounts, xp pots, character slots, and cosmetic items in a cash shop as well as cheap misc items such as training manuals, etc... No pay to win crap, just cosmetic items and items that allow you to pay to speed leveling.
VG saved.
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
http://vgrpgblog.blogspot.com/
Vanguard doesn't need a Free to play model, SOE just needs a flat rate guild model.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
SOE clings to monthly fee like a drowing to a plank. Only they fail to see the plank is rotten and will sink along with the rest, sooner or later. They need every failed MMO to keep that pretense that the Station Access has such a high value. So you pay lots of dollars and gets a plethora a mediocre MMOs.
SOE is the McDonalds of MMOs.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I hate Mcdonalds
Wish I had known all those years ago that VG was in many ways, EQ1's superior successor. F2P works for new releases and known releases but this game is mostly a handful of high level players and the occasional curious visitor that quits once he visits the ghost town like cities and sees no one in them but motionless NPCs.
Vanguard might as well be a glorified chat room because thats most the activity you see in this game.
F2P might slow the death of this game.
I keep hoping for an emulator to pop up like they have for EQ1. Its obvious that SOE is only keeping this game for the Station Pass since they have put next to zero effort after 2009. Even though the game was too buggy for me to play in beta I got a new comp just to play it and loved the game. It just that when the game emptied out, much like the pc versionof DCU already has to a seemingly greater degree , it became harder to stay with and play. Vanguard is ment for grouping and needs a decent population so you can go where you want and find people to do stuff with. I doubt SOE will ever go back and show this game the love it deserves. Thats why I say yes to free to play.. as an emulator. Heck people form the community are likely to treat it better.
Everytime another game gets release and dissapoints as everything I've tried in the last 3 years has I go back and say why the heck can't someone give Vangaurd some love?
I actually find your logic lacking. Whether or not Vanguard is a great game aside, there are many examples of things which are very good, but don't catch on for some reason. In the case of Vanguard, it started out with a lot of problems that took so long to overcome, that most of the initial enthusiasts left. This led to very bad press at the time. Since then, they've fixed alot of things, but alas new games have come out, people have found new homes for their MMO dollars, and time has gone by.
Doesn't mean it isn't a good game, just means that things happen, and sometimes good things don't last.
I self identify as a monkey.
I absolutely LOVE this game. Have so since it's first release. It's not a game for the easy gamer. I've been gaming since UO was released from Beta, and frankly, this has been the first one that grabed me since then.
I could choke Sony for what they've done. I feel they have intentionally been trying to kill the game for years. You are right, there has been no updates, no anything for a very long time. It has left the Vanguard community feeling abondoned. I have found myself coming and going from Vanguard. Always hoping that Sony would pick it up and see the potential it has. What a beautiful and unique game it is. The classes are so unique. The character creations are beautiful and way ahead of it's time.
Frankly, I don"t care what model they go to, free to play, or charge for plat... just work on it.. give it some love and attention. People will come and play. It's worth it.