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Can something be "beta" and live at the same time?
Grand_Nagus
Member UncommonPosts: 335
I'm playing an MMO that is about to release a system on the live servers but is still trying to call the system a "beta". I guess they think saying "beta" sounds better than saying "not completely finished", although I disagree; no system is ever completely finished in an MMO so thats not something to be ashamed of. Anyway, I said as much on their forums and not surprisingly someone disagreed saying 'its their game, they can call it what they want'. However, since we're talking about an industry term here, I disagree. If they decide to release it live on the servers people are paying to play on, can it still be "beta"?
Comments
They are probably calling it "beta" to avoid similar shit storms that both MO and FFXIV have faced at launch with supposedly live ready games. My personal opinion is that if you are calling it beta then it is not yet ready for paid consumption.
Yeah, Mortal Online tried doing this for months.
After they realized people were not going to pay for it in it's supposed live ready condition, they decided to keep it in beta for a while longer.
If I am expected to pay for the game, it better be in release condition. I will not pay to beta a game, and no one else should either IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Yes beta or alpha can be paid alpha or beta . money has nothing to do with it .
Beta is a word they used for a product near completion , its that they are not 100% happy with it .
Maybe 95% they are happy , but even if its paid beta , it can still be a beta .
Once it hits live , that means mainstream , all toons will be erased and everything have to start at level 1 again .
Thats another concept of beta , dont get attached to your toon .
So how much you want to disagree cause the product is so polished that its complete .
Untill they lift there beta , means it still not live .
Or set in stone , i know everybody conclusion is that a MMO is always a evovling beta , but sadly it doesn´t work that way in modern mmo or 21st century .
Once a product passes the beta stages , it should be done and expansion and updates fine .
But you dont want global major changes to happen suddenly .
Thats more then possible in beta .
*looks at FFXIV* I would say the answer is: Yes.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
*shrugs*
Ultima Online has been 'beta' and live for 13 years now
The Enhanced client is the one they recommend and that one too is in beta for the last 2 years
So, yes
Beta Test is a computer science/software engineering/systems engineering term. You Beta test in particular cercumstances for particular reasons.
If they are charging people they have released a product. You only Beta test before release. You should release after validation and verification and finally acceptance by the customer. The acceptance part is a little iffy in the context of a product you are selling. Normally if you are contracted to make someone something you deliver a release candidate(RC). That RC has gone through a process to ensure that all the stuff they asked for works correctly and is in fact actually what they had in mind when they asked for it. Then you basically say "This is the RC and we have shown it works and is what you asked for, do you accept it?" Then it becomes a released product.
A large scale Beta Test is supposed to be like this for MMO but somehwat less formal in that the customers do not have as much input or control in the process. The developers are essentially staking a survey about Verification and Validation and acceptance rather than direct communication.
However no one seems to be doing this. They don't verify or validate really and they don't listen and they ignore any idea of acceptance. They fix some bugs and do some stress test then shove it out the door.
The short answer is no it can't be live and Beta. Its just something was released and is crappy.
The long answer is they are not really doing a Beta to begin with and the whole process is pretty much crap. They release things in a crappy state because they are not testing and developing well to begin with. Then they just perpetually claim to be in a perpetually unready state because they never knew how to get to a ready to begin with.
If you never do anything right you will never be finished in a state that is good. It will continue forever.
Also remeber that computer applications can have many iterations of versions but not be in "perpetual Beta".
Mircosoft Word has gone through many changes over the years. It has had bugs at various points and some people like it and some don't.
But its not in "perpetual beta" its a product that has been changed and adjust over the years through successive versions. When a version is in beta its goes through a process (hmm test servers sound familar?) then is released (hmm patch day sound familar?)
Do not let the weasels at companies or in these forums tell you MMOs are any different.
This whole meme is just weasling plain and simple.
MMO may burn through versions more often, but not really. Many computer apps release minor version changes quite often. So do MMOs. They follow the exact same process.
But weasels are trying to shape your point of view by successively redefining the terms to mean something else. And that new definitino is a worthless piece of crap that serves no good purpose from the standpoint of making a decent product or satisfying customers. Its pure CYA
Yep, SWG and EQ2 are.
I believe my experience in FFXIV would define this statement.
http://lodestone.fin...?cicuid=1468669
Final Fantasy XIV is most probably one of the best recent examples of a game that should still be in beta, but is being sold in retail outlets.
I thought it was in Alpha stages and live.
Although I agree with your sentiment, the statement itself is not entirely accurrate and is part of the cofnusion.
A Beta product may be in an entirely great and releasable state.
The whole point of the exercise is not to make the product BETTER.
The point is to EXPOSE whether it is ready or not ready.
That is one reason why this is such an incredible amounts of bullshit.
If you get lucky a Beta product may be entirely worthy of paid consumption. You may do Beta and make no changes. Its unlikely but its possible. A Beta itself should not have much in the way of major technical changes (unless you really screwed up in Alpha or had a major validation error).
The main prupose of a Beta is to make sure that the users think it works and to let them put it through its paces as another set of eyes is always good.
The travesty of something like FFIV is not that its still in Beta. It never was in Beta in a genuine sense. It was but it should never have been placed into that situation. Normally in Beta you would have a feature that you implemented and made sure it works, then you have the users come in at Beta and use and tell that it meets their needs or maybe if it had an extra button it would meet their needs.
You don't do what FFIV did and have entire features like an auction house missing. Or entire features that just don't work well like their crazy-ass bizarre system. That stuff should have had a handle on it YEARS ago before even an alpha stages.
You see Beta Tests are tests. You either pass them or fail them. FFIV failed their beta and they failed it badly. Entire features were completely rejected by hordes of beta testers.
They failed Beta, ignored the fact they failed it and then release anyway. And many companies do this to some extent.
Then they lie and say they are still in Beta. No you failed beta. Now you have to start over again until you have a new candidate that can be put into a beta test.
In sense it is not entirely wrong to say these games are perpetually in beta (if they really were honestly dooing that but they are not). They are perpetually making new versions then Beta Testing them, then failing the Beta test, and then repeating that over and over.
See this is the BIG LIE. They nicely skip over the fact that they are perpetually failing their beta tests.
Tests are not some happy go lucky state where you can do whatever you want and have no blame or consequences.
Tests either pass or fail. And they are failing them. Over and over.
Beta means that the game still needs some polish or are missing some content. Anyone playing a beta should help with sending in reports of bugs.
But if you actually are paying to play a beta, something they in fact should pay you for, you should reconsider.
It is true that most games have volunteer beta testers, but some do pay them, particularly if there is something with big secrecy, like Blizzards next MMO.
Anyways, never ever pay for beta testing anything (It is a trap). Not even by preordering and particularly not by preordering a life time membership to a Cryptic game.
Some people reading this thread seem to be confused. It would probably help if I mentioned the game, but doing so would make this thread more suited for that game's board and I wanted to keep it a discussion for the general forum so I wont. But let me just say it is a game that has launched and is no longer in beta. They are going to be releasing a new SYSTEM on the LIVE servers that they are still going to be calling a "beta" version of the system. However, it is my opinion that anything you release on the LIVE servers cannot be called "beta", even if it is in an unfinished state.
Star Trek Online is your MMO, and its the Foundry (UGC) as the system in testing. Am I right? I had to assume this.. given that you are a Ferengi and all.....though I could be wrong I suppose.
If this is the case, then yes is my answer to your op. Cryptic puts out their products to live in a "beta" state, meaning the quality of the product is still only fit for beta testing.
This is one of the reasons I like companies that have test servers for their game in order to test the content prior to putting it on the live servers.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I'm not disagreeing with you regarding the quality. However, "officially" it cant be in beta once they release it to live even if they try to call it that.
Oh, there IS a test server. And that just further proves my point. Once they put it on the live servers, its not "beta".
That they cannot do , thats like cheating the consumer ,
If they release it live , it cannot called a beta anymore , if they do that you have 100% right to object , even with the EULA .
Once they put something out live , and sell boxes or download digital copy for it .
The fall under the consumer protection right , and even if they own all the toons in game , they may no longer choose a cleansweep wipe .
Enough cases have been proved that they will have to pay if you sue them .
Other side they have the right to shut down the server any time they want , as long they dont take compensation for the last periods or refund your money .
Thats something they can do anytime they want , cause of service agreement .
So putting a game live , while still calling it beta is like giving consumer totally no rights at all .
Look they can release the game , say its continueing in progress , thats more then possible .
But not calling it beta anymore .
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
the quotes went wonky on me....my point i was trying to make.....you both beat me to this :P
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
Hey, I get the jokes about quality. Some live games ARE in a "beta" state, and its sad. However, technically speaking, they cant be in "beta" if they are live. Thats the point.
Grand_Nagus, there's some pretty dirty stuff going on with that game you're talking about.
"Something's rotten in the state of Denmark"
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
That point you have right , to complain about , they can say its update or game inprogress (another wording of beta)
But they cannot say its a beta on live .
See thats the big difference , update in progress released on live , they can say that .
But they cannot use the term beta on live .