I disagree with the entire premise of this article.
The "problem" with the "grind" in MMOs isn't the pacing; "Pacing" is a function of game style and player preference. There are great games where combat takes forever and horrid games where it is very quick and "actiony".
What far too many MMOs fail to deliver on and why the grind is a problem is that they forget that whatever the pace of the game or speed of combat, it should be FUN. I have no problem with a game where it takes 3,5 or even 10 swings to kill a critter if I am having FUN while I am doing those swings. Fun is the point of all these games and why we play them.
Try playing Mount and Blade for an example of how combat can be anything but quick and still be much more entertaining than any MMO combat I have ever played. Trying to say or somehow argue that quick smash combat is always better is like arguing that the MMO version of Asteroids would be better than EVE.
I couldn't agree more, grind is a perception thing, a matter of subjectivity.
It's all based upon fun and boredom: if an activity is fun and entertaining enough, then it doesn't matter how fast or slow it is or how much time it takes to do it, because while we're doing it it keeps us engaged and entertained. We don't see or feel it as a grind because we aren't bored. However, if an activity starts to get boring, then it can be as quick and fast paced as you like, if we have to do it again and again we're going to perceive it as a grind.
So the core question isn't how fast paced an activity should be or not, but how the activity can be made fun and immersive enough to keep us entertained even if we're doing the same kind of activity repeatedly over a longer period of time.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
hmmm.....I don't know about this. What about latency? I like most everything I've read about GW2, but this somewhat bothers me. Is this going to be the person with the fastest connection win's, or another mage and archer one shot feast. most online games that have taken this road have been failures! Hope this veteran outlook don't mess up the game.
Do not mistake Indifference for Hate. Nor Kindness for Weakness. for this is the Bane of Judgment !
Pacing and combat are definitely the most important things in a MMORPG. I'm glad to know GW2 have a quick and dynamic combat style, but I'm tired of read only good stuff about GW2. Are there someone that don't have a good critic about the game? It is a good excercise to know those kinds of things that may dissapoint us when the game is released.
I think he used boar as a metaphorical example of how in some games it can take many many hits to kill very ridiculous monsters. Rats that need minutes to vanquish, spiders, etc.
I'm not sure that the speed of killing opponents is necessarily faster than other MMO's more than it appears that you are more active in the encounter than most MMO's. Anyone worried about the gameplay speed should just check out the gameplay demo's and judge for yourself. Keep in mind as well that often demo's at conventions like this are tuned to be easier than the end product.
I personally dont think someone affiliated with a gaming site should give their opinions of games that their site is being paid to advertise.
What are the chances this guy would say something bad about the game?..........Zero!
Oh wow, considering I've been seeing plenty of Jade Dynasty and WoW: Cataclysm advertisements on here, your point is EXTREMELY VALID!
/sarcasm.
If someone affiliated with this site is giving reviews and opinions of games that advertise here (Jade Dynasty, wow, or whatever else you care to mention) my point still stands. Notice i said "of games" in my post.....maybe you'll understand this the second time.
Yet you still seem to be pulling this out of thin air. Where did you get the idea that this site is being paid to advertise GW2? What you seem to be saying, is that the reviewers aren't allowed to have any interest in a game unless they're dissing it. What complete BS. That's like saying if they make an article praising Rift, then they're being paid to do so. Not to mention they clearly stated they got to play the demo, so wouldn't it make sense that they know what they're talking about in the article? Especially sense the article is about combat and pace (something that was of course in the demo).
"Where did you get the idea that this site is being paid to advertise GW2?" .... They advertise NCSoft game, COH, GW, Lineage2.... they dont do it for free.
"they clearly stated they got to play the demo" .... Exactly my point. If they were to give a bad review do you think they would get to demo the next big title NCSoft come out with? People come here to read reviews and if your not playing the early demo's that puts your site at a disadvantage. I'm sure everything he siad was the truth, but did he think the demo he played was a complete PEREFECT game? Was there nothing he disliked or thought could be improved?
Nothing pulled out of thin air here, just the facts. It's hard to figure out just what your arguement is.
Pacing and combat are definitely the most important things in a MMORPG. I'm glad to know GW2 have a quick and dynamic combat style, but I'm tired of read only good stuff about GW2. Are there someone that don't have a good critic about the game? It is a good excercise to know those kinds of things that may dissapoint us when the game is released.
I think that's the job of other MMOs to disappoint you!
Ideally what will be most disappointing is that it finishes too quickly. Also not all players will be after the experience here.
On topic "joy of movement" quote gives me a lot of hope for this game for moment to moment fun. Secondly The challenge of the mobs and monsters and bosses I hope is suitably scaled and challenging will be a big factor too.
I just don't want to hear ANYTHING ELSE about this game. All it does is make me repeatedly aware of how long we're going to have to wait to PLAY it. All THAT does is depress me. I wish I could just close my eyes to seeing anything about it untill about a month before it's out.
I personally dont think someone affiliated with a gaming site should give their opinions of games that their site is being paid to advertise.
What are the chances this guy would say something bad about the game?..........Zero!
Oh wow, considering I've been seeing plenty of Jade Dynasty and WoW: Cataclysm advertisements on here, your point is EXTREMELY VALID!
/sarcasm.
If someone affiliated with this site is giving reviews and opinions of games that advertise here (Jade Dynasty, wow, or whatever else you care to mention) my point still stands. Notice i said "of games" in my post.....maybe you'll understand this the second time.
Yet you still seem to be pulling this out of thin air. Where did you get the idea that this site is being paid to advertise GW2? What you seem to be saying, is that the reviewers aren't allowed to have any interest in a game unless they're dissing it. What complete BS. That's like saying if they make an article praising Rift, then they're being paid to do so. Not to mention they clearly stated they got to play the demo, so wouldn't it make sense that they know what they're talking about in the article? Especially sense the article is about combat and pace (something that was of course in the demo).
"Where did you get the idea that this site is being paid to advertise GW2?" .... They advertise NCSoft game, COH, GW, Lineage2.... they dont do it for free.
"they clearly stated they got to play the demo" .... Exactly my point. If they were to give a bad review do you think they would get to demo the next big title NCSoft come out with? People come here to read reviews and if your not playing the early demo's that puts your site at a disadvantage. I'm sure everything he siad was the truth, but did he think the demo he played was a complete PEREFECT game? Was there nothing he disliked or thought could be improved?
Nothing pulled out of thin air here, just the facts. It's hard to figure out just what your arguement is.
If thats your idea of "facts" Trav, I'd hate to have been your teachers, since I'm betting any essay you wrote would have driven me to the bottle...
By the way, excellent job on dodging my point, which completely invalidates yours. I heard FOX News is hiring, maybe you should apply.
I think we need to take some of you guys on a boar hunt with just melee weapons to see how much of a 'pest' it can be. They have done for kings before so if anyone dies you will be in good company.
I think we need to take some of you guys on a boar hunt with just melee weapons to see how much of a 'pest' it can be. They have done for kings before so if anyone dies you will be in good company.
That is a good point. However do I still rather face the boar than a well armed and well trained warrior.
A guy with boar spear usually wins against the boar, while in a battle between warriors there is a 50/50 chance of losing.
A tiger might be a different thing, I rather not face one armed with melee weapons but unlike a boar they are very stealthy...
I think we need to take some of you guys on a boar hunt with just melee weapons to see how much of a [object Window]pest[object Window] it can be. They have done for kings before so if anyone dies you will be in good company.
Well this is human vs boar
You never know what an Orc can do to a boar xD
"It has potential" -Second most used phrase on existence "It sucks" -Most used phrase on existence
Originally posted by Nekrataal rofl Ok, lets assume that you are lvl 1 & that I gave you a club. Now, go kill that boar & see what happens... my money is on the boar. I think, there's a little disconnect here, but to each there own I supposse. I don't have to feel that i'm some kind of super human, orc, dwarf, whatever, to have fun in a game.
This is something I am a bit concerned by about the game. The demo showed the brand new character helping save people in a town. Okay, I am with you. You are killing centaurs. Okay, I guess, you are a player character and so probably better than most people at whatever it is you do. We can do that. You fight and survive against a gigantic elemental. What? I am level one!
I know they do not want to have the "kill ten rats" problem, but there should be some middle ground between "I got a rodent issue in the basement, and you need to deal with it," and "OMFG monsters save us level one player!"
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
For me game combat has to be either fast paced actiony combat which is best for adventuring games (and I count MMOs into this group), or then real turn based combat which is best for games like civ or poxnora. Most MMOs tend to fall into frustration-grind range when it comes to combat.
It is true fast paced combat ends up turning away some people, but not having fast combat will do the same as well. There are already more games without fast paced combat than with it - especially when it comes to fantasy genre. The game can not be everything for everyone, and I'm sure at least some of the upcoming MMORPGs will have more traditional combat. Along with the traditional holy trinity. No one is forcing anyone to play anything they don't like. This is the very reason why I don't play most MMOs on the market.
I am myself looking for a game that combines fast paced combat with excellent and mechanically interesting "adventures", has good graphics, cooperative public quests, and also offers a lot character, power and equipment customization, along with a large amount of downtime/social activities. To this very day there aren't any that fill all these criterias. Perhaps GW2 will be the first one with most of them?
There's got to be a way to balance it all out. For myself, as an older player who never learned the console skills or "action" style combat young enough for muscle memory to develop, I'm often at a loss in the newer games, and it's why I invariably choose to be a healer (41 healer-medic in GA, for example).
Now one poster above mentioned PvP with people running around like chickens with their heads cut off. In Fallen Earth, we coined the phrase "the square-dance-on-meth" to describe most "action" PvP. If you're good at it, you're REALLY REALLY good at it. If not, you just suck. There's little middle ground. And taking away the healer role, as GW2 will (and FE does too, btw) leaves a WHOLE lot of people in the "suck" category, and they'll lose interest in PvP (and, as the content runs dry, the game) very quickly. Which will leave a small number of people PvPing, who'll slowly leave because there's not enough PvP, and the cycle breaks down.
There's got to be some method by which the AVERAGE player (i.e., not completely inept, but not really good either) can participate and at least have a chance to contribute. That's what I liked about Warhammer, for all its flaws. It's by far the only game I ever played where I spent more time in PvP than PvE. I could contribute, even though I'm quite combat-challenged. It's the only time I've EVER played a wizard as a main, for example. Part of it was that it's geared to group work, which I like in PvP. Part was the lack of any death penalty, something GW2 addressed quite satisfactorily in the GDC video, imo. Warhammer made me actually WANT to PvP and, as a side effect, gave me the courage to try PvP in other games since (FE, RoM, GA). Being able to have FUN in PvP, rather than just being ganked (e.g., UO, Lineage) was a real eye-opener. But as things speed up (FE, GA) I'm back up against the same wall. And while "practice" can help to a certain extent, I'll never get the hang of the square-dance-on-meth no matter how much I try. It just isn't natural.
I like the speed chess analogy. I like teamwork. I like being able to contribute. Sure, I'll always be a PvEer first and foremost. I want a world with stories that make me feel heroic, unlike real life. That's why I PLAY virtual worlds. But from my Warhammer experience I KNOW that PvP CAN be fun, if it's paced in a way that allows an AVERAGE player to participate, and doesn't overly penalize me for not being "good".
My real question with GW2 will ultiimately be how they address the ever-present "I've reached level cap and I'm bored" syndrome. This is the REAL issued that NO MMO to date has been able to get right.
Same for me, Xix. I started playing mmo's in my late 40's, much too late to develop the fast reflexes of younger players. I do my best, but ... When I think back to my first attempts at pvp I was crap; I tended to freeze with anxiety as more skilled players (literally) ran rings round me. I spent more times dead and rezzing than anything else. Over time, I've improved, but at 54 my reflexes will never match those of an 18-25 year old (especially one who plays for hours every day). I do enjoy pvp now, and challenging combat, but I need a balance between challenge and sheer impossibility. I prefer to use strategy to counteract my slowness, weighing up the situation before rushing in.
For me, the answer isn't faster-paced combat per se, but more interesting, meaningful and immersive combat. I particularly like the idea in both Rift and GW2 of random groups of players responding to dynamic threats. A bit like the scenarios in Warhammer, I guess, but hopefully not quite so scripted.
Finally, I like quests which aren't just combat based, too. I really enjoy healing wounded animals/npc's, or fixing things, or gathering things. Just killing stuff gets monotonous and kind of creepy, actually (for me, anyway).
Radwan666: Bad things off the top of my head (for some ppl anyways)
No open world PvP outside of the Mists
Looks like Dungeons are a max of 5 players. No indication if there will be any larger group sizes than that.
No dedicated healer or tank as there will be no trinity system
That about covers most of the major complaints so far.
The lack of the trinity system is actually a good thing.. but to each its own i suppose.
Agreed, the lack of the trinity has been one of the major compliments I have seen for GW2. That system is tired and old. While I believe there should be "tanking" and "healing" options for players who enjoy those roles (and there is in GW2). There has been far too much importance placed upon the trinity though. I play mmos to have fun with my friends, but if we don't have the right mix of characters, there are certain things we simply cannot do.
Take WoW for example, a trinity following mmo. I have a friend who prefers to play his warlock, but plays his druid as a tank so that we have one. He enjoys tanking, but there are plenty of times he is forced to do so because another tank can't make it that night. Even worse, when the tanks want a night off (or healers for that matter), the rest of us can't really go on and do much. Sure we all have alt characters, but not nearly as well equipped to tackle the content we'd like to.
The sooner we step away from the trinity and use other creative means of making content challenging, the better off we all will be.
I just hope "fast paced combat" isn't going to turn into running circles non-stop while mostly spamming same skills over and over like it tends to.
And I also agree that combat pace and grind are entirely different matters.
Other than that i don't care if it's slow or fast as long as it's fun.
Well, I mostly hear good things about GW1, and that's what keeps me optimistic more than any pre-release articles about GW2.
Eh, I doubt this will happen. In PVE, I doubt every player is constantly going to get hounded, whilst in PVP, there will probably be things other players can do to make it impractical for your character to dodge or attempt kiting excessively. Plus, since it is known that some abilities will require you to be stationary, at least theoretically more powerful spells will force movement to slow down.
Then you just have the impracticality of constantly spamming one button over and over, and I believe that the act of not being tactically sound will be punished enough in terms of inefficiency as to discourage this style of behavior.
It's not a case of faster necessarily being better. Combat that is slow and tactical is fine, too.
The problem is combat that is slow and idle, which is what a lot of games have. Start combat, sit there for two minutes auto attacking, and eventually the mob dies is not interesting. If you use a few other skills during those two minutes, but it's the same skills with the same timing in every single battle, that's still not interesting. If you have 3 seconds worth of decisions to make, then dragging out the battle to take 2 minutes is awful.
If you have 2 minutes worth of interesting decisions to make in a battle, then combat that takes 2 minutes is fine. But they better be interesting decisions that make you pay attention to what is going on.
Yes you are somewhat on the right track,but you forget one thing...the other guy or the mob you are fighting.They also need time to act/react,which makes it fun and intuitive.Of course if the game does not make good AI,then all you do is like you said,make 3 decisions over 2 minutes.
Again i can use FFXi combat,because is the best design imo.You start with ranged,that is one decision right there,but what RANGED?bio/dia/arrows/slow/dispel/bind/a nuke ect ect,so you can see,GOOD combat design is not as simple as spam 3 decisions.That was just the start,then mob attacks you and decides to cast a defensive spell that does not allow you to utilize damage,so now you need to dispel that buff.Ok maybe you want to speed up your attacks,so cast HASTE and slow his with SLOW.Ok maybe you want to kite it because yo uare taking too much damage in melee mode so you cast GRAVITY,but guess what it has a timer,so you can't sit there and recast it every few seconds,you need more strategy like BIND or SLEEP.You can add to the decisions casting ninja shadows if your sub class is ninja.Maybe you don't like the mob healing itself,so you need to cast SILENCE or it has powerful nukes,so you definitley need SILENCE.It goes on and on,this is CREATIVE combat.I didn't even include you needing to heal yourself or use SHield BAsh or having to recast shadows when they go down,having to Provoke if you are the tank to hold hate or maybe cast BLIND or an evasion buff if a Dancer class,far too many choices to make in a wel ldesigned combat system.
I mentioned it before,i played Wow and i really didn't even know my spell names,it didn't matter,i lined them up on my hotbar and spammed them,the combat in Wow is really poor,not fun at all,it wouldn't matter if it was fast or slow paced.GW2 needs a GOOD well designed system for combat,imo fast or slow is not the issue,but obviosuly too fast means it has no thinking involved,3 hits and it's dead is not fun in my books and definitely not challenging.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I couldn't disagree more about pacing. This is probably why lvl 1-60 in warcraft now consists of running around 1 shotting mobs while doing green and grey quests. Yes it was a little tedious back in vanilla but when you were done you felt like you had actually accomplished something. When you finally got your D1 helm off that Gandling you were exstatic. I cant tell you the name of a single boss in the new dungeons which I have completely farmed out at this point. What a joke.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
I couldn't agree more, grind is a perception thing, a matter of subjectivity.
It's all based upon fun and boredom: if an activity is fun and entertaining enough, then it doesn't matter how fast or slow it is or how much time it takes to do it, because while we're doing it it keeps us engaged and entertained. We don't see or feel it as a grind because we aren't bored. However, if an activity starts to get boring, then it can be as quick and fast paced as you like, if we have to do it again and again we're going to perceive it as a grind.
So the core question isn't how fast paced an activity should be or not, but how the activity can be made fun and immersive enough to keep us entertained even if we're doing the same kind of activity repeatedly over a longer period of time.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
hmmm.....I don't know about this. What about latency? I like most everything I've read about GW2, but this somewhat bothers me. Is this going to be the person with the fastest connection win's, or another mage and archer one shot feast. most online games that have taken this road have been failures! Hope this veteran outlook don't mess up the game.
Do not mistake Indifference for Hate. Nor Kindness for Weakness. for this is the Bane of Judgment !
Pacing and combat are definitely the most important things in a MMORPG. I'm glad to know GW2 have a quick and dynamic combat style, but I'm tired of read only good stuff about GW2. Are there someone that don't have a good critic about the game? It is a good excercise to know those kinds of things that may dissapoint us when the game is released.
Carpe Diem
I'm not sure that the speed of killing opponents is necessarily faster than other MMO's more than it appears that you are more active in the encounter than most MMO's. Anyone worried about the gameplay speed should just check out the gameplay demo's and judge for yourself. Keep in mind as well that often demo's at conventions like this are tuned to be easier than the end product.
Radwan666: Bad things off the top of my head (for some ppl anyways)
No open world PvP outside of the Mists
Looks like Dungeons are a max of 5 players. No indication if there will be any larger group sizes than that.
No dedicated healer or tank as there will be no trinity system
That about covers most of the major complaints so far.
"Where did you get the idea that this site is being paid to advertise GW2?" .... They advertise NCSoft game, COH, GW, Lineage2.... they dont do it for free.
"they clearly stated they got to play the demo" .... Exactly my point. If they were to give a bad review do you think they would get to demo the next big title NCSoft come out with? People come here to read reviews and if your not playing the early demo's that puts your site at a disadvantage. I'm sure everything he siad was the truth, but did he think the demo he played was a complete PEREFECT game? Was there nothing he disliked or thought could be improved?
Nothing pulled out of thin air here, just the facts. It's hard to figure out just what your arguement is.
I think that's the job of other MMOs to disappoint you!
Ideally what will be most disappointing is that it finishes too quickly. Also not all players will be after the experience here.
On topic "joy of movement" quote gives me a lot of hope for this game for moment to moment fun. Secondly The challenge of the mobs and monsters and bosses I hope is suitably scaled and challenging will be a big factor too.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I just don't want to hear ANYTHING ELSE about this game. All it does is make me repeatedly aware of how long we're going to have to wait to PLAY it. All THAT does is depress me. I wish I could just close my eyes to seeing anything about it untill about a month before it's out.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If thats your idea of "facts" Trav, I'd hate to have been your teachers, since I'm betting any essay you wrote would have driven me to the bottle...
By the way, excellent job on dodging my point, which completely invalidates yours. I heard FOX News is hiring, maybe you should apply.
I think we need to take some of you guys on a boar hunt with just melee weapons to see how much of a 'pest' it can be. They have done for kings before so if anyone dies you will be in good company.
That is a good point. However do I still rather face the boar than a well armed and well trained warrior.
A guy with boar spear usually wins against the boar, while in a battle between warriors there is a 50/50 chance of losing.
A tiger might be a different thing, I rather not face one armed with melee weapons but unlike a boar they are very stealthy...
Well this is human vs boar
You never know what an Orc can do to a boar xD
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
The lack of the trinity system is actually a good thing.. but to each its own i suppose.
Eat me!
This is something I am a bit concerned by about the game. The demo showed the brand new character helping save people in a town. Okay, I am with you. You are killing centaurs. Okay, I guess, you are a player character and so probably better than most people at whatever it is you do. We can do that. You fight and survive against a gigantic elemental. What? I am level one!
I know they do not want to have the "kill ten rats" problem, but there should be some middle ground between "I got a rodent issue in the basement, and you need to deal with it," and "OMFG monsters save us level one player!"
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
For me game combat has to be either fast paced actiony combat which is best for adventuring games (and I count MMOs into this group), or then real turn based combat which is best for games like civ or poxnora. Most MMOs tend to fall into frustration-grind range when it comes to combat.
It is true fast paced combat ends up turning away some people, but not having fast combat will do the same as well. There are already more games without fast paced combat than with it - especially when it comes to fantasy genre. The game can not be everything for everyone, and I'm sure at least some of the upcoming MMORPGs will have more traditional combat. Along with the traditional holy trinity. No one is forcing anyone to play anything they don't like. This is the very reason why I don't play most MMOs on the market.
I am myself looking for a game that combines fast paced combat with excellent and mechanically interesting "adventures", has good graphics, cooperative public quests, and also offers a lot character, power and equipment customization, along with a large amount of downtime/social activities. To this very day there aren't any that fill all these criterias. Perhaps GW2 will be the first one with most of them?
- Beregar
Same for me, Xix. I started playing mmo's in my late 40's, much too late to develop the fast reflexes of younger players. I do my best, but ... When I think back to my first attempts at pvp I was crap; I tended to freeze with anxiety as more skilled players (literally) ran rings round me. I spent more times dead and rezzing than anything else. Over time, I've improved, but at 54 my reflexes will never match those of an 18-25 year old (especially one who plays for hours every day). I do enjoy pvp now, and challenging combat, but I need a balance between challenge and sheer impossibility. I prefer to use strategy to counteract my slowness, weighing up the situation before rushing in.
For me, the answer isn't faster-paced combat per se, but more interesting, meaningful and immersive combat. I particularly like the idea in both Rift and GW2 of random groups of players responding to dynamic threats. A bit like the scenarios in Warhammer, I guess, but hopefully not quite so scripted.
Finally, I like quests which aren't just combat based, too. I really enjoy healing wounded animals/npc's, or fixing things, or gathering things. Just killing stuff gets monotonous and kind of creepy, actually (for me, anyway).
Agreed, the lack of the trinity has been one of the major compliments I have seen for GW2. That system is tired and old. While I believe there should be "tanking" and "healing" options for players who enjoy those roles (and there is in GW2). There has been far too much importance placed upon the trinity though. I play mmos to have fun with my friends, but if we don't have the right mix of characters, there are certain things we simply cannot do.
Take WoW for example, a trinity following mmo. I have a friend who prefers to play his warlock, but plays his druid as a tank so that we have one. He enjoys tanking, but there are plenty of times he is forced to do so because another tank can't make it that night. Even worse, when the tanks want a night off (or healers for that matter), the rest of us can't really go on and do much. Sure we all have alt characters, but not nearly as well equipped to tackle the content we'd like to.
The sooner we step away from the trinity and use other creative means of making content challenging, the better off we all will be.
I just hope "fast paced combat" isn't going to turn into running circles non-stop while mostly spamming same skills over and over like it tends to.
And I also agree that combat pace and grind are entirely different matters.
Other than that i don't care if it's slow or fast as long as it's fun.
Well, I mostly hear good things about GW1, and that's what keeps me optimistic more than any pre-release articles about GW2.
Eh, I doubt this will happen. In PVE, I doubt every player is constantly going to get hounded, whilst in PVP, there will probably be things other players can do to make it impractical for your character to dodge or attempt kiting excessively. Plus, since it is known that some abilities will require you to be stationary, at least theoretically more powerful spells will force movement to slow down.
Then you just have the impracticality of constantly spamming one button over and over, and I believe that the act of not being tactically sound will be punished enough in terms of inefficiency as to discourage this style of behavior.
But I digress. We'll see.
Yes you are somewhat on the right track,but you forget one thing...the other guy or the mob you are fighting.They also need time to act/react,which makes it fun and intuitive.Of course if the game does not make good AI,then all you do is like you said,make 3 decisions over 2 minutes.
Again i can use FFXi combat,because is the best design imo.You start with ranged,that is one decision right there,but what RANGED?bio/dia/arrows/slow/dispel/bind/a nuke ect ect,so you can see,GOOD combat design is not as simple as spam 3 decisions.That was just the start,then mob attacks you and decides to cast a defensive spell that does not allow you to utilize damage,so now you need to dispel that buff.Ok maybe you want to speed up your attacks,so cast HASTE and slow his with SLOW.Ok maybe you want to kite it because yo uare taking too much damage in melee mode so you cast GRAVITY,but guess what it has a timer,so you can't sit there and recast it every few seconds,you need more strategy like BIND or SLEEP.You can add to the decisions casting ninja shadows if your sub class is ninja.Maybe you don't like the mob healing itself,so you need to cast SILENCE or it has powerful nukes,so you definitley need SILENCE.It goes on and on,this is CREATIVE combat.I didn't even include you needing to heal yourself or use SHield BAsh or having to recast shadows when they go down,having to Provoke if you are the tank to hold hate or maybe cast BLIND or an evasion buff if a Dancer class,far too many choices to make in a wel ldesigned combat system.
I mentioned it before,i played Wow and i really didn't even know my spell names,it didn't matter,i lined them up on my hotbar and spammed them,the combat in Wow is really poor,not fun at all,it wouldn't matter if it was fast or slow paced.GW2 needs a GOOD well designed system for combat,imo fast or slow is not the issue,but obviosuly too fast means it has no thinking involved,3 hits and it's dead is not fun in my books and definitely not challenging.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I couldn't disagree more about pacing. This is probably why lvl 1-60 in warcraft now consists of running around 1 shotting mobs while doing green and grey quests. Yes it was a little tedious back in vanilla but when you were done you felt like you had actually accomplished something. When you finally got your D1 helm off that Gandling you were exstatic. I cant tell you the name of a single boss in the new dungeons which I have completely farmed out at this point. What a joke.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already