I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
Take a casual look at the developer's history, at the fanaticity of the fanboys, the badmouthing of the elitists
Take a casual reading of the sub base trend, at the general public's reception of the game
Why would anyone expect anything otherwise, unless he is specially looking for that kind of gameplay/community/developer.
After Roma Victor and a few disasters, there is no point risking any more. The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
Alot can change in a year. I know im going to Resub for atleast 2 months once i get my new PC. I had fun in DF a year ago, and im looking forward to trying it again now.
I beta tested and I purhcased the game and didn't play much the first month. I gave them a chance to prove that classless system could work but like ALWAYS classless systems don't work for me. It turns out to be a One Class game and that's boring. Everyone is that class and there's no variety. Must do everything eventually, so what's the point I just don't get it.
If it had classes with specific roles then maybe it would be more tactical and then I would give it another try.
The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
I don't think that is true. The reason EVE was successful, is because the developers have chosen a path and stuck to it for the most part for the past 7years.
Where as, with other games, this is never true. Darkfall has strayed far away from the path they decided on 10yrs ago when they started development, and Indy games just can't afford to do this like the big names can. WoW is nothing like what was promised during it's development phase, but the developers have the talent, the money, and the time to fully flesh out every step it takes. Indy developers just cannot do this, they only take half steps and when they are in the middle of the second half step, they evolve into a different direction.
When this happens, you have Darkfall. Forumfall is a great name for it, the developers seem to spend more time there than actually fixing the game to what it should be.
When developers stick to their goals, stick to their plan and tell the player base "Hey, you know we love you like children. But this is our game and if you don't like it then you can leave".
im not 100% sure, as i havent played in about a year, but dont u specialize as either melee, magic, or archery now? so thats sorta the class system u guys want right?
The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
I don't think that is true. The reason EVE was successful, is because the developers have chosen a path and stuck to it for the most part for the past 7years.
Where as, with other games, this is never true. Darkfall has strayed far away from the path they decided on 10yrs ago when they started development, and Indy games just can't afford to do this like the big names can. WoW is nothing like what was promised during it's development phase, but the developers have the talent, the money, and the time to fully flesh out every step it takes. Indy developers just cannot do this, they only take half steps and when they are in the middle of the second half step, they evolve into a different direction.
When this happens, you have Darkfall. Forumfall is a great name for it, the developers seem to spend more time there than actually fixing the game to what it should be.
When developers stick to their goals, stick to their plan and tell the player base "Hey, you know we love you like children. But this is our game and if you don't like it then you can leave".
That is what I am saying with my first sentence, which unfortunately you edited out.
The main issue with DF is the developer. They start with a grand plan, a plan no one have any idea how it can be implemented. The developers did not know either, and after years of delay they deliver a pile of *&^% totally alien to what they promise at the start.
Instead of progressively filling in the missing feature, they quietly edit out the missing features from their outdated web sites. By now, I personally will have no more faith in this developer. In short, they never have the ability or the intend to live up to their words.
im not 100% sure, as i havent played in about a year, but dont u specialize as either melee, magic, or archery now? so thats sorta the class system u guys want right?
No, I've heard something akin to it depending on what gear you're wearing. But, I believe it was implemented in such a way, that it really didn't matter one way or the other. You still have to be everything, or you're nothing at all. If you're not an Archer, a Mage, and a Warrior, then you might as well not even be playing.
I fully enjoy classless systems, but with games like Darkfall, it makes me appreciate completely restricted class systems.
"Instead of progressively filling in the missing feature, they quietly edit out the missing features from their outdated web sites. By now, I personally will have no more faith in this developer. In short, they never have the ability or the intend to live up to their words."
This is true anywhere, especially in EVE. There are quite a few features, I can remember, that have been quietly phased out then actually rewritten in the lore. However, you're right about the rest of your post. They have still stuck to their basic goal and most importantly, they understand that to achieve Z they have to make sure A-Y works first.
But, with Adventurine, there is a lot of flip flopping between "ok here's this" then "ok now here's this over here" and the ever present "oh hey, look at this".
The worst part of it all, is that I think the guys over at Mortal Online understand this concept, much better than Adventurine. I haven't been following that game nearly as close as I've followed Darkfall for the past decade, but from what I've seen they are working on features that they need before they get other features they want. Despite, releasing the game very prematurely.
im not 100% sure, as i havent played in about a year, but dont u specialize as either melee, magic, or archery now? so thats sorta the class system u guys want right?
No, I've heard something akin to it depending on what gear you're wearing. But, I believe it was implemented in such a way, that it really didn't matter one way or the other. You still have to be everything, or you're nothing at all. If you're not an Archer, a Mage, and a Warrior, then you might as well not even be playing.
I fully enjoy classless systems, but with games like Darkfall, it makes me appreciate completely restricted class systems.
Free class is good but there should be limits. If there are no limits there are no choices. Choice means tradeoff.
In DF the only limit is your time, your ability to hack and exploit the system. That is not playing a game, in my sense of enjoyment.
I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
Take a casual look at the developer's history, at the fanaticity of the fanboys, the badmouthing of the elitists
Take a casual reading of the sub base trend, at the general public's reception of the game
Why would anyone expect anything otherwise, unless he is specially looking for that kind of gameplay/community/developer.
After Roma Victor and a few disasters, there is no point risking any more. The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
Well games have outsold sims as far back as the Commodore 64 (and probably further.) So if a company spends a lot of money making a game with low demographic appeal now (25+ years later) I'm not sure "risk" is the appropriate term.
Still, 25 years later companies are still making that mistake -- so you can be sure that there will be mistake games in the future (some of which, like EVE, will be made with just enough design or aesthetic sense to rise above their niche roots.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That is true.... In sieges magic i a big part of it. But for normal pvp melee is used alot.
But ofc. magic is biggest part. Anything else would be wierd... Its a big group of ppl. Archers are there aswell. And melee when not a huge group vs. huge group.
I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
Take a casual look at the developer's history, at the fanaticity of the fanboys, the badmouthing of the elitists
Take a casual reading of the sub base trend, at the general public's reception of the game
Why would anyone expect anything otherwise, unless he is specially looking for that kind of gameplay/community/developer.
After Roma Victor and a few disasters, there is no point risking any more. The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
Well games have outsold sims as far back as the Commodore 64 (and probably further.) So if a company spends a lot of money making a game with low demographic appeal now (25+ years later) I'm not sure "risk" is the appropriate term.
Still, 25 years later companies are still making that mistake -- so you can be sure that there will be mistake games in the future (some of which, like EVE, will be made with just enough design or aesthetic sense to rise above their niche roots.)
I must be too hasty in typing, I never get my point across.
By risk, I mean me wasting time and energy testing out games like DF. I am not talking about business risks making such games. That is for the developers to worry. I have worried enough at work. I just want to make the best use of the few odd hours after work.
I must be too hasty in typing, I never get my point across.
By risk, I mean me wasting time and energy testing out games like DF. I am not talking about business risks making such games. That is for the developers to worry. I have worried enough at work. I just want to make the best use of the few odd hours after work.
Looking at your post history, you seem to be a WoW player. have you ever played any games outside of WoW? Some people like WoW, others do not.
For me WoW is a well made game. However, I never, ever, ever want to play another game like it again. it embodies everythign that I hate in a game. Tab target, faction based warefare, with queues for PvP. let us not go into the whole grind an instance 3,000,000,000th time just so I can be told that I can't bid on a piece of equipment that I need. The fact that every class must be played exactly the same wit the same counters and 'spec' groups.
.....EQ / WoW clones are not for me.
In DFO I log in and decide if I want to PvP, siege a city, PvE, take a ship out onto the seas. I don't do the same thing day in and day out. I have infinite variety. I have no level or gear restrictions that keep me from playing with my friends or telling me who they are.
Also, anyone who thinks that everyone is the same in DFO has not played the game. Just because everyone has access to everythig does not mean they use them or makes the same trade-offs. This is like saying that all college graduates are the same. it simply isn't true.
I must be too hasty in typing, I never get my point across.
By risk, I mean me wasting time and energy testing out games like DF. I am not talking about business risks making such games. That is for the developers to worry. I have worried enough at work. I just want to make the best use of the few odd hours after work.
Looking at your post history, you seem to be a WoW player. have you ever played any games outside of WoW? Some people like WoW, others do not.
For me WoW is a well made game. However, I never, ever, ever want to play another game like it again. it embodies everythign that I hate in a game. Tab target, faction based warefare, with queues for PvP. let us not go into the whole grind an instance 3,000,000,000th time just so I can be told that I can't bid on a piece of equipment that I need. The fact that every class must be played exactly the same wit the same counters and 'spec' groups.
.....EQ / WoW clones are not for me.
In DFO I log in and decide if I want to PvP, siege a city, PvE, take a ship out onto the seas. I don't do the same thing day in and day out. I have infinite variety. I have no level or gear restrictions that keep me from playing with my friends or telling me who they are.
Also, anyone who thinks that everyone is the same in DFO has not played the game. Just because everyone has access to everythig does not mean they use them or makes the same trade-offs. This is like saying that all college graduates are the same. it simply isn't true.
I have written this line in many of my posts: I stopped playing WoW long ago.
I started my gaming since UO and EQ1.
I know what pvp games are like, I have friends in Korea making those grinders. The best pvp game I played still love is DAoC.
I have no issues with people playing DF. Its your hobby, your time. I am steering clear of it because of the developer.
My stand is, for choice to be geniune, we need options. In order for options to be serious, we need budgets. In heaven there is no choice, you can have everything. In DF, or games in which there is no cap, there is no budget, you just keep grinding to the next higher level. You just grind everything, non stop, forever. The only limit is your hours online, and the rate at which you can macro, cheat, hack or honestly grind. That is not my view of choice, that is not my game.
Yes, I understand it could be other people's game. I have no issues with that.
I must be too hasty in typing, I never get my point across.
By risk, I mean me wasting time and energy testing out games like DF. I am not talking about business risks making such games. That is for the developers to worry. I have worried enough at work. I just want to make the best use of the few odd hours after work.
Looking at your post history, you seem to be a WoW player. have you ever played any games outside of WoW? Some people like WoW, others do not.
For me WoW is a well made game. However, I never, ever, ever want to play another game like it again. it embodies everythign that I hate in a game. Tab target, faction based warefare, with queues for PvP. let us not go into the whole grind an instance 3,000,000,000th time just so I can be told that I can't bid on a piece of equipment that I need. The fact that every class must be played exactly the same wit the same counters and 'spec' groups.
.....EQ / WoW clones are not for me.
In DFO I log in and decide if I want to PvP, siege a city, PvE, take a ship out onto the seas. I don't do the same thing day in and day out. I have infinite variety. I have no level or gear restrictions that keep me from playing with my friends or telling me who they are.
Also, anyone who thinks that everyone is the same in DFO has not played the game. Just because everyone has access to everythig does not mean they use them or makes the same trade-offs. This is like saying that all college graduates are the same. it simply isn't true.
I have written this line in many of my posts: I stopped playing WoW long ago.
I started my gaming since UO and EQ1.
I know what pvp games are like, I have friends in Korea making those grinders. The best pvp game I played still love is DAoC.
I have no issues with people playing DF. Its your hobby, your time. I am steering clear of it because of the developer.
My stand is, for choice to be geniune, we need options. In order for options to be serious, we need budgets. In heaven there is no choice, you can have everything. In DF, or games in which there is no cap, there is no budget, you just keep grinding to the next higher level. You just grind everything, non stop, forever. The only limit is your hours online, and the rate at which you can macro, cheat, hack or honestly grind. That is not my view of choice, that is not my game.
Yes, I understand it could be other people's game. I have no issues with that.
What you don't seem to realize is that even if you have 5,000 skills, you end up chossing only a few. The skills which you choose to use are the ones which define your play-style.
I have written this line in many of my posts: I stopped playing WoW long ago.
I started my gaming since UO and EQ1.
I know what pvp games are like, I have friends in Korea making those grinders. The best pvp game I played still love is DAoC.
I have no issues with people playing DF. Its your hobby, your time. I am steering clear of it because of the developer.
My stand is, for choice to be geniune, we need options. In order for options to be serious, we need budgets. In heaven there is no choice, you can have everything. In DF, or games in which there is no cap, there is no budget, you just keep grinding to the next higher level. You just grind everything, non stop, forever. The only limit is your hours online, and the rate at which you can macro, cheat, hack or honestly grind. That is not my view of choice, that is not my game.
Yes, I understand it could be other people's game. I have no issues with that.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the game. Darkfall has so much potential, but the way it has been implemented is just crap in my opinion. It requires a grind of such an overly repetitive nature for such a long time in order to get anywhere and it loses its fun very quickly for all but the very most hardcore of players. I was once one of those hardcore gamers, but the responsibilities of life have long since changed that. It is always mind-boggling to me that anyone considers an endless repetitive grind fun. Especially since the end-result is always the same jack-of-all trades hybrid character that exploits whatever ability is overpowered at any given time.
Until Darkfall offers more variation and accessibility, I don't think I will be giving it another chance. I know I'm not alone...
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the game. Darkfall has so much potential, but the way it has been implemented is just crap in my opinion. It requires a grind of such an overly repetitive nature for such a long time in order to get anywhere and it loses its fun very quickly for all but the very most hardcore of players. I was once one of those hardcore gamers, but the responsibilities of life have long since changed that. It is always mind-boggling to me that anyone considers an endless repetitive grind fun. Especially since the end-result is always the same jack-of-all trades hybrid character that exploits whatever ability is overpowered at any given time.
Until Darkfall offers more variation and accessibility, I don't think I will be giving it another chance. I know I'm not alone...
I'm curious, What do you consider "variation and accessibility."
DFO has a huge number of mobs. A large number of quests, and offline skilling. Or even skill-up through PvP (however, inefficient that is). There is crafing, naval combat, city building, and clan warfare.
I am seriiously baffled when people say the grind in DFO is repetitive. I consider running the same instance 500 times in a game where you can actually macro the entire instance boring. I consider queuing for the same battleground over and over until your eyes bleed repetitive. At least in DFO I can choose what I want to do that day. Whether it is trading, crafting, PvP, or skilling up on the mob of choice (usually consistent with mats I may need for crafting). The game is far LESS repetitive than nearly any game I have played since AC-DT at launch.
The game's quite fun, if you just play it to play it and not to try to get to "end game" status as fast as possible (aka "the grind").
Don't expect much more than a deathmatch as far as the world and it's socio-politics go though.. Constantly dodging vets looking for easy kills (aka you until you've been playing half a year or so). Had this title the sophistication of EvE's political system (oh and also the economy of eve.. not much of one in DF), it would have been awesome.. It's kind of a nintendo happy-game as far as comparing it to EvE goes heh. What it does have over eve is funner combat and you are on land.. yay.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the game. Darkfall has so much potential, but the way it has been implemented is just crap in my opinion. It requires a grind of such an overly repetitive nature for such a long time in order to get anywhere and it loses its fun very quickly for all but the very most hardcore of players. I was once one of those hardcore gamers, but the responsibilities of life have long since changed that. It is always mind-boggling to me that anyone considers an endless repetitive grind fun. Especially since the end-result is always the same jack-of-all trades hybrid character that exploits whatever ability is overpowered at any given time.
Until Darkfall offers more variation and accessibility, I don't think I will be giving it another chance. I know I'm not alone...
I'm curious, What do you consider "variation and accessibility."
DFO has a huge number of mobs. A large number of quests, and offline skilling. Or even skill-up through PvP (however, inefficient that is). There is crafing, naval combat, city building, and clan warfare.
I am seriiously baffled when people say the grind in DFO is repetitive. I consider running the same instance 500 times in a game where you can actually macro the entire instance boring. I consider queuing for the same battleground over and over until your eyes bleed repetitive. At least in DFO I can choose what I want to do that day. Whether it is trading, crafting, PvP, or skilling up on the mob of choice (usually consistent with mats I may need for crafting). The game is far LESS repetitive than nearly any game I have played since AC-DT at launch.
The variation I refer to is different roles (like you find in class-based games). Different characters who perform different and important functions on the battlefield. Because everyone is a jack-of-all-trades in Darkfall and 99% of them will focus on whatever is the most imbalanced abilities at any specific time, everyone ends up being the same. There is no variation and there are no different roles. It makes the game a lot more boring in my opinion and MUCH more of a hassle to grind.
The accessibility I refer to is the fact that the game requires such a huge time investment to achieve a well-developed character. Because of this fact alone, the game is inaccessible to the vast majority of gamers... even most of those who appreciate open world FFA PvP. The only people who can really be successful in this game are those who pretty much devote most of their time to it. That is just unreasonable for a game in my opinion... especially one that was supposed to be based more on player skill than time played.
And as for the repetitive nature of the game... sure there are several different things you can choose to do, but every single one of them is extremely repetitive. Grinding on any mob is repetitive. Gathering is repetitive. Crafting (any tradeskill) is repetitive. In fact I can think of very little in Darkfall that is NOT repetitive. Just because you can choose which repetitive task you want to do at any given time does not make any of them enjoyable.
I am seriiously baffled when people say the grind in DFO is repetitive. I consider running the same instance 500 times in a game where you can actually macro the entire instance boring. I consider queuing for the same battleground over and over until your eyes bleed repetitive. At least in DFO I can choose what I want to do that day. Whether it is trading, crafting, PvP, or skilling up on the mob of choice (usually consistent with mats I may need for crafting). The game is far LESS repetitive than nearly any game I have played since AC-DT at launch.
So instead of macroing instances you just macro in a city. Your right about the BG queuing. Everything else listed can also be done in Themepark MMO's.
I'm sure now you will nitpick every little detail to try and prove your point. Which I could do but I am not going to waste my time.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the game. Darkfall has so much potential, but the way it has been implemented is just crap in my opinion. It requires a grind of such an overly repetitive nature for such a long time in order to get anywhere and it loses its fun very quickly for all but the very most hardcore of players. I was once one of those hardcore gamers, but the responsibilities of life have long since changed that. It is always mind-boggling to me that anyone considers an endless repetitive grind fun. Especially since the end-result is always the same jack-of-all trades hybrid character that exploits whatever ability is overpowered at any given time.
Until Darkfall offers more variation and accessibility, I don't think I will be giving it another chance. I know I'm not alone...
I'm curious, What do you consider "variation and accessibility."
DFO has a huge number of mobs. A large number of quests, and offline skilling. Or even skill-up through PvP (however, inefficient that is). There is crafing, naval combat, city building, and clan warfare.
I am seriiously baffled when people say the grind in DFO is repetitive. I consider running the same instance 500 times in a game where you can actually macro the entire instance boring. I consider queuing for the same battleground over and over until your eyes bleed repetitive. At least in DFO I can choose what I want to do that day. Whether it is trading, crafting, PvP, or skilling up on the mob of choice (usually consistent with mats I may need for crafting). The game is far LESS repetitive than nearly any game I have played since AC-DT at launch.
The variation I refer to is different roles (like you find in class-based games). Different characters who perform different and important functions on the battlefield. Because everyone is a jack-of-all-trades in Darkfall and 99% of them will focus on whatever is the most imbalanced abilities at any specific time, everyone ends up being the same. There is no variation and there are no different roles. It makes the game a lot more boring in my opinion and MUCH more of a hassle to grind.
So we had a siege this weekend. We had people healing, we had focus fire archer teams, we had a destroyer melee group, and we had mages functioning as artillery. How is that not variation in roles? Contrary to popular myth everyone is NOT jack-of-all trades. Just because you are capable, does not mean you do.
How is choosing your own mmethod to skill-up more "hassle" to "grind" than running the same intances 5000 times to get gear you need to compete. In my experiecne it is far less of a hassle to grind than most MMO's
The accessibility I refer to is the fact that the game requires such a huge time investment to achieve a well-developed character. Because of this fact alone, the game is inaccessible to the vast majority of gamers... even most of those who appreciate open world FFA PvP. The only people who can really be successful in this game are those who pretty much devote most of their time to it. That is just unreasonable for a game in my opinion... especially one that was supposed to be based more on player skill than time played.
No, this is false. It has been repeatedly proven that you can skill-up in a reasonable amount of time through casual play. I have new guys ending their trial account who have Witcraft 75, SC 30 (Sacrifice) and melee mastery. They don't even play every day. The big differentiator between vets and newer plaeyrs is skill behind the keyboard. New players don't know how to move, heal, dodge certain attacks, and switch weapons. If you think this then you haven't played enough of the game to even understadn the combat.
The best example of this can be seen in this post:
And as for the repetitive nature of the game... sure there are several different things you can choose to do, but every single one of them is extremely repetitive. Grinding on any mob is repetitive. Gathering is repetitive. Crafting (any tradeskill) is repetitive. In fact I can think of very little in Darkfall that is NOT repetitive. Just because you can choose which repetitive task you want to do at any given time does not make any of them enjoyable.
Nothing is more repetitive than running a scripted instaces 100s of times (WoW). PvP instances are also the same old, same old, with queues added untiil your eyes bleed (WaR / DAoC). Or how about grinding rep (DAoC / WaR). The only game that I can think of that you would not consder repetitive is EvE. Where you log out using "off-line" skilling for ayear before you can play. If you aren't playing the game, why sub? Ironically, DFO has added offline skilling which integrates with game play. You must play the game to get the resources to use offline skilling. According to your logic actually PLAYING the game to progress is what you would cconsider "grind." Ironically the DFO system is very integrated into the actual game where you must actually play to progress.
I guess repetitive is in tthe eye of the beholder.
Comments
I did that last year, and I absolutely regretted it. I came to the realization that the thing was a massive grind to gank fest, that had no real purpose to any of it. There was no economy, the crafting was pathetic, and the fact that you had to be everything to be anything was a ridiculous mechanic.
If all of that above is still there, then your promise isn't worth a whole lot. I know all of what I mentioned is still there, because the game has alot of potential and I've kept my eye on it. The problem is that potential isn't a game and hopes are usually crushed.
Take a casual look at the developer's history, at the fanaticity of the fanboys, the badmouthing of the elitists
Take a casual reading of the sub base trend, at the general public's reception of the game
Why would anyone expect anything otherwise, unless he is specially looking for that kind of gameplay/community/developer.
After Roma Victor and a few disasters, there is no point risking any more. The story of EvE and its success might never repeat itself.
Alot can change in a year. I know im going to Resub for atleast 2 months once i get my new PC. I had fun in DF a year ago, and im looking forward to trying it again now.
Playing EVE
Played Darkfall, Played Wow,
I beta tested and I purhcased the game and didn't play much the first month. I gave them a chance to prove that classless system could work but like ALWAYS classless systems don't work for me. It turns out to be a One Class game and that's boring. Everyone is that class and there's no variety. Must do everything eventually, so what's the point I just don't get it.
If it had classes with specific roles then maybe it would be more tactical and then I would give it another try.
I don't think that is true. The reason EVE was successful, is because the developers have chosen a path and stuck to it for the most part for the past 7years.
Where as, with other games, this is never true. Darkfall has strayed far away from the path they decided on 10yrs ago when they started development, and Indy games just can't afford to do this like the big names can. WoW is nothing like what was promised during it's development phase, but the developers have the talent, the money, and the time to fully flesh out every step it takes. Indy developers just cannot do this, they only take half steps and when they are in the middle of the second half step, they evolve into a different direction.
When this happens, you have Darkfall. Forumfall is a great name for it, the developers seem to spend more time there than actually fixing the game to what it should be.
When developers stick to their goals, stick to their plan and tell the player base "Hey, you know we love you like children. But this is our game and if you don't like it then you can leave".
im not 100% sure, as i havent played in about a year, but dont u specialize as either melee, magic, or archery now? so thats sorta the class system u guys want right?
Playing EVE
Played Darkfall, Played Wow,
That is what I am saying with my first sentence, which unfortunately you edited out.
The main issue with DF is the developer. They start with a grand plan, a plan no one have any idea how it can be implemented. The developers did not know either, and after years of delay they deliver a pile of *&^% totally alien to what they promise at the start.
Instead of progressively filling in the missing feature, they quietly edit out the missing features from their outdated web sites. By now, I personally will have no more faith in this developer. In short, they never have the ability or the intend to live up to their words.
No, I've heard something akin to it depending on what gear you're wearing. But, I believe it was implemented in such a way, that it really didn't matter one way or the other. You still have to be everything, or you're nothing at all. If you're not an Archer, a Mage, and a Warrior, then you might as well not even be playing.
I fully enjoy classless systems, but with games like Darkfall, it makes me appreciate completely restricted class systems.
"Instead of progressively filling in the missing feature, they quietly edit out the missing features from their outdated web sites. By now, I personally will have no more faith in this developer. In short, they never have the ability or the intend to live up to their words."
This is true anywhere, especially in EVE. There are quite a few features, I can remember, that have been quietly phased out then actually rewritten in the lore. However, you're right about the rest of your post. They have still stuck to their basic goal and most importantly, they understand that to achieve Z they have to make sure A-Y works first.
But, with Adventurine, there is a lot of flip flopping between "ok here's this" then "ok now here's this over here" and the ever present "oh hey, look at this".
The worst part of it all, is that I think the guys over at Mortal Online understand this concept, much better than Adventurine. I haven't been following that game nearly as close as I've followed Darkfall for the past decade, but from what I've seen they are working on features that they need before they get other features they want. Despite, releasing the game very prematurely.
Free class is good but there should be limits. If there are no limits there are no choices. Choice means tradeoff.
In DF the only limit is your time, your ability to hack and exploit the system. That is not playing a game, in my sense of enjoyment.
Well games have outsold sims as far back as the Commodore 64 (and probably further.) So if a company spends a lot of money making a game with low demographic appeal now (25+ years later) I'm not sure "risk" is the appropriate term.
Still, 25 years later companies are still making that mistake -- so you can be sure that there will be mistake games in the future (some of which, like EVE, will be made with just enough design or aesthetic sense to rise above their niche roots.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Thanks for confirming my fears. I see nothing but magic in that video.
That is true.... In sieges magic i a big part of it. But for normal pvp melee is used alot.
But ofc. magic is biggest part. Anything else would be wierd... Its a big group of ppl. Archers are there aswell. And melee when not a huge group vs. huge group.
I must be too hasty in typing, I never get my point across.
By risk, I mean me wasting time and energy testing out games like DF. I am not talking about business risks making such games. That is for the developers to worry. I have worried enough at work. I just want to make the best use of the few odd hours after work.
Because magic is very flashy. Arrows don't show up as flaming balls shooting through the sky. In fact archery has the highest DPS in the game.
One of my favorite siege tactics is to run a group of destoyers (melee) in the back of the battle lines. Massive death generally ensues.
Looking at your post history, you seem to be a WoW player. have you ever played any games outside of WoW? Some people like WoW, others do not.
For me WoW is a well made game. However, I never, ever, ever want to play another game like it again. it embodies everythign that I hate in a game. Tab target, faction based warefare, with queues for PvP. let us not go into the whole grind an instance 3,000,000,000th time just so I can be told that I can't bid on a piece of equipment that I need. The fact that every class must be played exactly the same wit the same counters and 'spec' groups.
.....EQ / WoW clones are not for me.
In DFO I log in and decide if I want to PvP, siege a city, PvE, take a ship out onto the seas. I don't do the same thing day in and day out. I have infinite variety. I have no level or gear restrictions that keep me from playing with my friends or telling me who they are.
Also, anyone who thinks that everyone is the same in DFO has not played the game. Just because everyone has access to everythig does not mean they use them or makes the same trade-offs. This is like saying that all college graduates are the same. it simply isn't true.
I have written this line in many of my posts: I stopped playing WoW long ago.
I started my gaming since UO and EQ1.
I know what pvp games are like, I have friends in Korea making those grinders. The best pvp game I played still love is DAoC.
I have no issues with people playing DF. Its your hobby, your time. I am steering clear of it because of the developer.
My stand is, for choice to be geniune, we need options. In order for options to be serious, we need budgets. In heaven there is no choice, you can have everything. In DF, or games in which there is no cap, there is no budget, you just keep grinding to the next higher level. You just grind everything, non stop, forever. The only limit is your hours online, and the rate at which you can macro, cheat, hack or honestly grind. That is not my view of choice, that is not my game.
Yes, I understand it could be other people's game. I have no issues with that.
What you don't seem to realize is that even if you have 5,000 skills, you end up chossing only a few. The skills which you choose to use are the ones which define your play-style.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the game. Darkfall has so much potential, but the way it has been implemented is just crap in my opinion. It requires a grind of such an overly repetitive nature for such a long time in order to get anywhere and it loses its fun very quickly for all but the very most hardcore of players. I was once one of those hardcore gamers, but the responsibilities of life have long since changed that. It is always mind-boggling to me that anyone considers an endless repetitive grind fun. Especially since the end-result is always the same jack-of-all trades hybrid character that exploits whatever ability is overpowered at any given time.
Until Darkfall offers more variation and accessibility, I don't think I will be giving it another chance. I know I'm not alone...
I'm curious, What do you consider "variation and accessibility."
DFO has a huge number of mobs. A large number of quests, and offline skilling. Or even skill-up through PvP (however, inefficient that is). There is crafing, naval combat, city building, and clan warfare.
I am seriiously baffled when people say the grind in DFO is repetitive. I consider running the same instance 500 times in a game where you can actually macro the entire instance boring. I consider queuing for the same battleground over and over until your eyes bleed repetitive. At least in DFO I can choose what I want to do that day. Whether it is trading, crafting, PvP, or skilling up on the mob of choice (usually consistent with mats I may need for crafting). The game is far LESS repetitive than nearly any game I have played since AC-DT at launch.
The game's quite fun, if you just play it to play it and not to try to get to "end game" status as fast as possible (aka "the grind").
Don't expect much more than a deathmatch as far as the world and it's socio-politics go though.. Constantly dodging vets looking for easy kills (aka you until you've been playing half a year or so). Had this title the sophistication of EvE's political system (oh and also the economy of eve.. not much of one in DF), it would have been awesome.. It's kind of a nintendo happy-game as far as comparing it to EvE goes heh. What it does have over eve is funner combat and you are on land.. yay.
On top of the two week free trial with no restrictions the game is on sale at gamersgate right now for $15. http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DFOUS/darkfall-online
Steam: Neph
The variation I refer to is different roles (like you find in class-based games). Different characters who perform different and important functions on the battlefield. Because everyone is a jack-of-all-trades in Darkfall and 99% of them will focus on whatever is the most imbalanced abilities at any specific time, everyone ends up being the same. There is no variation and there are no different roles. It makes the game a lot more boring in my opinion and MUCH more of a hassle to grind.
The accessibility I refer to is the fact that the game requires such a huge time investment to achieve a well-developed character. Because of this fact alone, the game is inaccessible to the vast majority of gamers... even most of those who appreciate open world FFA PvP. The only people who can really be successful in this game are those who pretty much devote most of their time to it. That is just unreasonable for a game in my opinion... especially one that was supposed to be based more on player skill than time played.
And as for the repetitive nature of the game... sure there are several different things you can choose to do, but every single one of them is extremely repetitive. Grinding on any mob is repetitive. Gathering is repetitive. Crafting (any tradeskill) is repetitive. In fact I can think of very little in Darkfall that is NOT repetitive. Just because you can choose which repetitive task you want to do at any given time does not make any of them enjoyable.
So instead of macroing instances you just macro in a city. Your right about the BG queuing. Everything else listed can also be done in Themepark MMO's.
I'm sure now you will nitpick every little detail to try and prove your point. Which I could do but I am not going to waste my time.