I know how you feel about the game BunionToes, but I don't see it that way. And I would wager to say most people are in agreement with me. I am very glad for you that you enjoy it, but it just wasn't for me.
I never got far enough in the game to experience the sieges, but I have never seen people utilizing different roles as you describe. In ever PvP video I have seen, almost everyone is shooting spells at each other or spamming the left mouse button with a 2H weapon. There is a hell of a lot more complexity to playing character classes in other games from what I've seen...
I can tell you are not a fan of instances, but to be perfectly honest, I find running instances with different boss mechanics and strategies to be far more enjoyable than simply killing the same mobs over and over again until its time to move onto a new area (where, again, you kill the same mobs over and over again). Simply grinding is much more mindless than having to work in a coherent team and complete scripted objectives in my opinion.
In regards to the grind: Nothing has been proven other than the fact that most people quit the game because of it. Everything beyond that is opinion... and most of them biased because they are the opinions held by only the people with the patience to stick around. Whether you want to admit it or not, most people don't stay and the vast majority will list the grind as the reason. Back when I started Darkfall, I had 4 rl friends in game with me. At first, we were all really enjoying the game. After about 3 months, I was the only one left. And after about two more months I was completely burned out. This was because I was doing the exact same things over and over again in the hopes of reaching the vet-competitive PvP level. At least in WoW there are enough different instances and rich content quests all over the world that you don't fall asleep on your keyboard while trying to advance...
In regards to the grind: Nothing has been proven other than the fact that most people quit the game because of it. Everything beyond that is opinion...
Actually this is all your opiniion. We are seeing a large inlfux of new players and they are skilling up quite quickly. This is FACT. When they play with a guild that does different things and shows them how to work as a team, people stay.
This was because I was doing the exact same things over and over again in the hopes of reaching the vet-competitive PvP level. At least in WoW there are enough different instances and rich content quests all over the world that you don't fall asleep on your keyboard while trying to advance...
The same quests exist within Darkfall. However, doing them is your CHOICE. There are no floaiting '!' over NPC heads to tell you where these quests are. They have rewards which range from gold to rare items. Also, in Darkfall you can be viable in PvP from day one, however you need to pick your battles. You don't go pick fights with vets when you don't even have melee mastery. Knowing when to fight and when to run is an important part of playingg darkfall.
The reality is that you sling around labels such as "grind" without a definition. If you played and only killed trolls until you had mastery then yes that would be a grind, but that was YOUR choice. There are certainly many other things to do. If you think that harvesting resources are "a grind" then i would agree with you, but this is why my guild uses harveting alts to keep everyone geared so this is not an issue for us. I have seen guiidls which spent thier time harvesting resrocues and never allowing thier players to gain skill through PvE and people quit in droves. But this was the choice of thier play-style not a problem of hte game.
As for PvP viability......the people who complain about not being viable have never been successful at PvP. They do not know what "viable" is. You can be very viable early on througgh focused development and picking your battles wisely. If you never spar with players who are better than you, you will never, ever be "vaiable" no matter what attributes & skills your papaer doll says you have.
The blessing off Darkfall is that you can playy the game however you want to. The curse of Darkfall is that you can play the game however you want to.
In the end it is important to also realize that:
The game has changed significantly over time
You define your own playstyle. If you turn the game into an un-creative grind, then the game will be a grind.
You may like different things than other people. For instance you like WoW. I hated WoW but at least I can admit it is a well made game.
There are things about Darkfall that I think are great and that I very much appreciate. I love open world PvP for instance. I just don't like it when I feel like I have to do really repetitive things for a long time in order to get the most out of the game. All of the things I was doing were suggested in Youtube guides and forum posts. Things like grinding on bugged mobs for skill points or having to leave my computer on all night afk swimming because stat grinding any other way is too heinous for words. And still after 4 months, my stats were only in the 40s. How else can someone perceive that other than as a gigantic grind? Ultimately it comes down to perception. You are right that there are elements of other games like WoW that are very repetitive, but they do a much better job at masking that repetition than Darkfall does in my opinion.
It is true that people can become PvP viable more quickly if they know all the tricks and exploits and if they have a clan power-grinding them, but most new players don't have access to those things when they start the game. The fact that Darkfall requires that is a major design flaw... which, as I said before, makes the game inaccessible to most players.
I also know that those players who decide they simply don't care if they are cannon-fodder compared to vets might not have as much of a problem with the game as others do. I know that I can PvP with other characters who have played around the same period of time as I have, but I also know that my chances of winning against a much older character are almost non-existent. Unfortunately I am too competitive for my own good and I don't like to be at a serious character stat/skill disadvantage to ANY player for a long period of time. This is especially the case in a PvP-centric game like Darkfall because there really isn't anything else in the game...
But really this is a pointless argument. I played the game hard for 5 months and I just simply don't like it the way the grind (real or perceived) is. You won't convince me otherwise, just as I probably won't convince you to play WoW. The only reason I still post occasionally in this forum is that I loved so many things about Darkfall and I keep hoping that Aventurine will decide one day to make some serious changes to the game for the better.
In regards to the grind: Nothing has been proven other than the fact that most people quit the game because of it. Everything beyond that is opinion...
Actually this is all your opiniion. We are seeing a large inlfux of new players and they are skilling up quite quickly. This is FACT. When they play with a guild that does different things and shows them how to work as a team, people stay.
This was because I was doing the exact same things over and over again in the hopes of reaching the vet-competitive PvP level. At least in WoW there are enough different instances and rich content quests all over the world that you don't fall asleep on your keyboard while trying to advance...
The same quests exist within Darkfall. However, doing them is your CHOICE. There are no floaiting '!' over NPC heads to tell you where these quests are. They have rewards which range from gold to rare items. Also, in Darkfall you can be viable in PvP from day one, however you need to pick your battles. You don't go pick fights with vets when you don't even have melee mastery. Knowing when to fight and when to run is an important part of playingg darkfall.
The reality is that you sling around labels such as "grind" without a definition. If you played and only killed trolls until you had mastery then yes that would be a grind, but that was YOUR choice. There are certainly many other things to do. If you think that harvesting resources are "a grind" then i would agree with you, but this is why my guild uses harveting alts to keep everyone geared so this is not an issue for us. I have seen guiidls which spent thier time harvesting resrocues and never allowing thier players to gain skill through PvE and people quit in droves. But this was the choice of thier play-style not a problem of hte game.
As for PvP viability......the people who complain about not being viable have never been successful at PvP. They do not know what "viable" is. You can be very viable early on througgh focused development and picking your battles wisely. If you never spar with players who are better than you, you will never, ever be "vaiable" no matter what attributes & skills your papaer doll says you have.
The blessing off Darkfall is that you can playy the game however you want to. The curse of Darkfall is that you can play the game however you want to.
In the end it is important to also realize that:
The game has changed significantly over time
You define your own playstyle. If you turn the game into an un-creative grind, then the game will be a grind.
You may like different things than other people. For instance you like WoW. I hated WoW but at least I can admit it is a well made game.
Anyone who plans to talk any sense into bunion give up. He is a Darkfall Fanboy of the highest degree.
Here is a little stat for the readers. Darkfall has sold over 100,000 units and currently has far less than 7,000 subs. Now think about how many of those are alt accounts because as Bunion himself said Alliances have gathering alts. As do many players for there own benefit.
Now tell me how is it 100,000 copies are sold to people interested enough to purchase the game and now less than 7,000 are actually playing. Those are not the numbers of a properly functioning and balanced mmo.
Actually you have no idea how many subs are in the game. That information is not released.
Even if it was.....we would need to compare what the try / sub ration is on ohter games. How about the number of copies that AoC sold? vs the number of subs that stayed. How many copies did even WoW sell? and how many stayed? The reality is you have no data, you make up statistics (which don;t exist) and you have no context.
If someone wants to try the game, let them. The game isn't for everyojne but you don't know unitl you try it.
In regards to the grind: Nothing has been proven other than the fact that most people quit the game because of it. Everything beyond that is opinion...
Actually this is all your opiniion. We are seeing a large inlfux of new players and they are skilling up quite quickly. This is FACT. When they play with a guild that does different things and shows them how to work as a team, people stay.
This was because I was doing the exact same things over and over again in the hopes of reaching the vet-competitive PvP level. At least in WoW there are enough different instances and rich content quests all over the world that you don't fall asleep on your keyboard while trying to advance...
The same quests exist within Darkfall. However, doing them is your CHOICE. There are no floaiting '!' over NPC heads to tell you where these quests are. They have rewards which range from gold to rare items. Also, in Darkfall you can be viable in PvP from day one, however you need to pick your battles. You don't go pick fights with vets when you don't even have melee mastery. Knowing when to fight and when to run is an important part of playingg darkfall.
The reality is that you sling around labels such as "grind" without a definition. If you played and only killed trolls until you had mastery then yes that would be a grind, but that was YOUR choice. There are certainly many other things to do. If you think that harvesting resources are "a grind" then i would agree with you, but this is why my guild uses harveting alts to keep everyone geared so this is not an issue for us. I have seen guiidls which spent thier time harvesting resrocues and never allowing thier players to gain skill through PvE and people quit in droves. But this was the choice of thier play-style not a problem of hte game.
As for PvP viability......the people who complain about not being viable have never been successful at PvP. They do not know what "viable" is. You can be very viable early on througgh focused development and picking your battles wisely. If you never spar with players who are better than you, you will never, ever be "vaiable" no matter what attributes & skills your papaer doll says you have.
The blessing off Darkfall is that you can playy the game however you want to. The curse of Darkfall is that you can play the game however you want to.
In the end it is important to also realize that:
The game has changed significantly over time
You define your own playstyle. If you turn the game into an un-creative grind, then the game will be a grind.
You may like different things than other people. For instance you like WoW. I hated WoW but at least I can admit it is a well made game.
Anyone who plans to talk any sense into bunion give up. He is a Darkfall Fanboy of the highest degree.
Here is a little stat for the readers. Darkfall has sold over 100,000 units and currently has far less than 7,000 subs. Now think about how many of those are alt accounts because as Bunion himself said Alliances have gathering alts. As do many players for there own benefit.
Now tell me how is it 100,000 copies are sold to people interested enough to purchase the game and now less than 7,000 are actually playing. Those are not the numbers of a properly functioning and balanced mmo.
Actually you have no idea how many subs are in the game. That information is not released.
Even if it was.....we would need to compare what the try / sub ration is on ohter games. How about the number of copies that AoC sold? vs the number of subs that stayed. How many copies did even WoW sell? and how many stayed? The reality is you have no data, you make up statistics (which don;t exist) and you have no context.
If someone wants to try the game, let them. The game isn't for everyojne but you don't know unitl you try it.
i wouldnt compare this game to age of conan because age of conan is another game that has been very bad with retaining subscribers. That being said i will be giving this a shot this christmas break to see if i can make a character worth staying with Darkfall at least for a while. I hope this game surprises me and is truly a fun experience but we shall see.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I couldn't get past the clunky combat animations. My character swinging the same exact way/direction every single time.
You have something for melee and something for ranged (magic/archery?). Boring. I've seen the big brawls. Everyone always has a link to some fabled youtube video as proof that the game can be fun. However, inbetween that big fight what are you doing? Grinding skills and grinding mobs to have the equipment to take part in said fight? Again, boooring.
MAke Darkfall the MMo you try for Christmas Break.
You wont regret it. I promise.
Its a hard sell isn't it i would give it a try if it wasn't for the horrible grind.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
There are things about Darkfall that I think are great and that I very much appreciate. I love open world PvP for instance. I just don't like it when I feel like I have to do really repetitive things for a long time in order to get the most out of the game. All of the things I was doing were suggested in Youtube guides and forum posts. Things like grinding on bugged mobs for skill points or having to leave my computer on all night afk swimming because stat grinding any other way is too heinous for words. And still after 4 months, my stats were only in the 40s. How else can someone perceive that other than as a gigantic grind? Ultimately it comes down to perception. You are right that there are elements of other games like WoW that are very repetitive, but they do a much better job at masking that repetition than Darkfall does in my opinion.
It is true that people can become PvP viable more quickly if they know all the tricks and exploits and if they have a clan power-grinding them, but most new players don't have access to those things when they start the game. The fact that Darkfall requires that is a major design flaw... which, as I said before, makes the game inaccessible to most players.
I also know that those players who decide they simply don't care if they are cannon-fodder compared to vets might not have as much of a problem with the game as others do. I know that I can PvP with other characters who have played around the same period of time as I have, but I also know that my chances of winning against a much older character are almost non-existent. Unfortunately I am too competitive for my own good and I don't like to be at a serious character stat/skill disadvantage to ANY player for a long period of time. This is especially the case in a PvP-centric game like Darkfall because there really isn't anything else in the game...
But really this is a pointless argument. I played the game hard for 5 months and I just simply don't like it the way the grind (real or perceived) is. You won't convince me otherwise, just as I probably won't convince you to play WoW. The only reason I still post occasionally in this forum is that I loved so many things about Darkfall and I keep hoping that Aventurine will decide one day to make some serious changes to the game for the better.
There are things about Darkfall that I think are great and that I very much appreciate. I love open world PvP for instance. I just don't like it when I feel like I have to do really repetitive things for a long time in order to get the most out of the game. All of the things I was doing were suggested in Youtube guides and forum posts. Things like grinding on bugged mobs for skill points or having to leave my computer on all night afk swimming because stat grinding any other way is too heinous for words. And still after 4 months, my stats were only in the 40s. How else can someone perceive that other than as a gigantic grind? Ultimately it comes down to perception. You are right that there are elements of other games like WoW that are very repetitive, but they do a much better job at masking that repetition than Darkfall does in my opinion.
It is true that people can become PvP viable more quickly if they know all the tricks and exploits and if they have a clan power-grinding them, but most new players don't have access to those things when they start the game. The fact that Darkfall requires that is a major design flaw... which, as I said before, makes the game inaccessible to most players.
I also know that those players who decide they simply don't care if they are cannon-fodder compared to vets might not have as much of a problem with the game as others do. I know that I can PvP with other characters who have played around the same period of time as I have, but I also know that my chances of winning against a much older character are almost non-existent. Unfortunately I am too competitive for my own good and I don't like to be at a serious character stat/skill disadvantage to ANY player for a long period of time. This is especially the case in a PvP-centric game like Darkfall because there really isn't anything else in the game...
But really this is a pointless argument. I played the game hard for 5 months and I just simply don't like it the way the grind (real or perceived) is. You won't convince me otherwise, just as I probably won't convince you to play WoW. The only reason I still post occasionally in this forum is that I loved so many things about Darkfall and I keep hoping that Aventurine will decide one day to make some serious changes to the game for the better.
They added offline skilling.
I heard that and I definitely think its a step in the right direction. But I have also heard that it is very expensive, so people still end up having to grind in order to afford it. I'm not quite sure what AV's rationale was there... seems like replacing one boring grind with another isn't really solving the problem.
I admit that I haven't tried the game since they released this, so I really can't say for sure...
its on sale half price i would pick up another copy!!! I see alot more players just fniished trials and now are subbed. A new flow of new players that are staying the community is picking up!.
im playing it now to just decided id give it a go and its pretty fun im a little lost but what do you expect.
I'm sure you'll find these videos quite useful. This accelerated character development guide is an essential for new Darkfall players.
Welcome to Agon.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
I know how you feel about the game BunionToes, but I don't see it that way. And I would wager to say most people are in agreement with me. I am very glad for you that you enjoy it, but it just wasn't for me.
I never got far enough in the game to experience the sieges, but I have never seen people utilizing different roles as you describe. In ever PvP video I have seen, almost everyone is shooting spells at each other or spamming the left mouse button with a 2H weapon. There is a hell of a lot more complexity to playing character classes in other games from what I've seen...
I can tell you are not a fan of instances, but to be perfectly honest, I find running instances with different boss mechanics and strategies to be far more enjoyable than simply killing the same mobs over and over again until its time to move onto a new area (where, again, you kill the same mobs over and over again). Simply grinding is much more mindless than having to work in a coherent team and complete scripted objectives in my opinion.
In regards to the grind: Nothing has been proven other than the fact that most people quit the game because of it. Everything beyond that is opinion... and most of them biased because they are the opinions held by only the people with the patience to stick around. Whether you want to admit it or not, most people don't stay and the vast majority will list the grind as the reason. Back when I started Darkfall, I had 4 rl friends in game with me. At first, we were all really enjoying the game. After about 3 months, I was the only one left. And after about two more months I was completely burned out. This was because I was doing the exact same things over and over again in the hopes of reaching the vet-competitive PvP level. At least in WoW there are enough different instances and rich content quests all over the world that you don't fall asleep on your keyboard while trying to advance...
The reality is that you sling around labels such as "grind" without a definition. If you played and only killed trolls until you had mastery then yes that would be a grind, but that was YOUR choice. There are certainly many other things to do. If you think that harvesting resources are "a grind" then i would agree with you, but this is why my guild uses harveting alts to keep everyone geared so this is not an issue for us. I have seen guiidls which spent thier time harvesting resrocues and never allowing thier players to gain skill through PvE and people quit in droves. But this was the choice of thier play-style not a problem of hte game.
As for PvP viability......the people who complain about not being viable have never been successful at PvP. They do not know what "viable" is. You can be very viable early on througgh focused development and picking your battles wisely. If you never spar with players who are better than you, you will never, ever be "vaiable" no matter what attributes & skills your papaer doll says you have.
The blessing off Darkfall is that you can playy the game however you want to. The curse of Darkfall is that you can play the game however you want to.
In the end it is important to also realize that:
The game has changed significantly over time
You define your own playstyle. If you turn the game into an un-creative grind, then the game will be a grind.
You may like different things than other people. For instance you like WoW. I hated WoW but at least I can admit it is a well made game.
There are things about Darkfall that I think are great and that I very much appreciate. I love open world PvP for instance. I just don't like it when I feel like I have to do really repetitive things for a long time in order to get the most out of the game. All of the things I was doing were suggested in Youtube guides and forum posts. Things like grinding on bugged mobs for skill points or having to leave my computer on all night afk swimming because stat grinding any other way is too heinous for words. And still after 4 months, my stats were only in the 40s. How else can someone perceive that other than as a gigantic grind? Ultimately it comes down to perception. You are right that there are elements of other games like WoW that are very repetitive, but they do a much better job at masking that repetition than Darkfall does in my opinion.
It is true that people can become PvP viable more quickly if they know all the tricks and exploits and if they have a clan power-grinding them, but most new players don't have access to those things when they start the game. The fact that Darkfall requires that is a major design flaw... which, as I said before, makes the game inaccessible to most players.
I also know that those players who decide they simply don't care if they are cannon-fodder compared to vets might not have as much of a problem with the game as others do. I know that I can PvP with other characters who have played around the same period of time as I have, but I also know that my chances of winning against a much older character are almost non-existent. Unfortunately I am too competitive for my own good and I don't like to be at a serious character stat/skill disadvantage to ANY player for a long period of time. This is especially the case in a PvP-centric game like Darkfall because there really isn't anything else in the game...
But really this is a pointless argument. I played the game hard for 5 months and I just simply don't like it the way the grind (real or perceived) is. You won't convince me otherwise, just as I probably won't convince you to play WoW. The only reason I still post occasionally in this forum is that I loved so many things about Darkfall and I keep hoping that Aventurine will decide one day to make some serious changes to the game for the better.
Actually you have no idea how many subs are in the game. That information is not released.
Even if it was.....we would need to compare what the try / sub ration is on ohter games. How about the number of copies that AoC sold? vs the number of subs that stayed. How many copies did even WoW sell? and how many stayed? The reality is you have no data, you make up statistics (which don;t exist) and you have no context.
If someone wants to try the game, let them. The game isn't for everyojne but you don't know unitl you try it.
i wouldnt compare this game to age of conan because age of conan is another game that has been very bad with retaining subscribers. That being said i will be giving this a shot this christmas break to see if i can make a character worth staying with Darkfall at least for a while. I hope this game surprises me and is truly a fun experience but we shall see.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I couldn't get past the clunky combat animations. My character swinging the same exact way/direction every single time.
You have something for melee and something for ranged (magic/archery?). Boring. I've seen the big brawls. Everyone always has a link to some fabled youtube video as proof that the game can be fun. However, inbetween that big fight what are you doing? Grinding skills and grinding mobs to have the equipment to take part in said fight? Again, boooring.
Lets watch the baiting guys.
Thanks.
Its a hard sell isn't it
i would give it a try if it wasn't for the horrible grind.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
If ANYONE from this thread is willing to give darkfall a shot, look my clan up....
DEFIANT ORDER
I promise we will provide you with the most EPIC of gaming experiances.
Anselm Williams of defiant Order a Darkfall clan
They added offline skilling.
Anselm Williams of defiant Order a Darkfall clan
Cut out the personal arguements. Thanks.
Edit : Do not re-post deleted posts.
I heard that and I definitely think its a step in the right direction. But I have also heard that it is very expensive, so people still end up having to grind in order to afford it. I'm not quite sure what AV's rationale was there... seems like replacing one boring grind with another isn't really solving the problem.
I admit that I haven't tried the game since they released this, so I really can't say for sure...
its on sale half price i would pick up another copy!!! I see alot more players just fniished trials and now are subbed. A new flow of new players that are staying the community is picking up!.
im playing it now to just decided id give it a go and its pretty fun im a little lost but what do you expect.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I'm sure you'll find these videos quite useful. This accelerated character development guide is an essential for new Darkfall players.
Welcome to Agon.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If you do try this game, make sure you have some friends to join you. Trying to solo this game isn't pleasant. It gets boring alone.