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What Do Players Want?
mainvein33
Member Posts: 406
I have not posted in a good while but this has been running through my mind for a good long time now. With the string of failed projects we have seen over these last few years the title question keeps coming to mind. It seems that every game that comes out gets the common complaint of either so close to WoW that its feels pointless to play or so far from it that its painful. But there is no way I can point a finger. GW is massively popular but has such an unique business model it's difficult to match. Other games remain popular with their niches FFXi EVE etc. But of recent I have not seen anything that has garnered that appeal.
What further drives my question is if a game draws no similarities to WoW the more I see complaints about questing, grinding, and content. Except for conten I have seen complaints in both directions for grinding and questing. From too many quests to too few quests and from too much of a grind to leveling too fast. The most common and prevalent complaint I have seen over the years is that there is not enough content. I often see request for more or less of these things but I rarely see I want more of "this" and "this" is how I would like to see it done.
This post has nothing to do with finding a "WoW Killer" or what is the next big game. I genuinely would like to know what the h*ll are we looking for in future mmo titles? I would really like to know what is missing? What is not there that is causing all these titles to fail or to miss expectations by so far?
If I get responses I am not trying to flame or point out specific games or even rip on WoW or any other title in anyway. I really do not want to argue this time round and I have hesitated to post this for a while as i feared someone would take this as a shot against a specific title (it is not).
PS
I wanted to put a poll in this but every choice would have been so generic it would have gotten us nowhere.
Comments
Honestly ? A Vanguard with a population (and some good designers plus some decent devs) would make me already happy. Well, not gonna happen.
The new SWTOR sounds good, because it seems to have a lot of high quality quest content. Thats one of the things I didnt liked about Vanguard, there was plenty of content, but you leveled to fast to actually see it.
OTOH I wonder if SWTOR can keep me for longtime, because, well, its "just" Star Wars.
For example, in Vanguard I always wanted to play all 15 classes because they are so diverse and unique. In SWTOR you only get like 4 classes, even if they come in a good and an evil variant.
In Vanguard I had 19 races to choose from. Granted, I mostly just played my beloved darkelves whenever possible. Still there was some variance. The main issue with SWTORs races seems them to be very, very, very humanlike (same size and all) and not being able to choose all classes. Seriously, races in SWTOR look like the solution to the formula "how do we get a high number of races without actually doing much more work".
Anyway, its Bioware, so I hope for high quality quest content. But once that is out, after 2-3 months, I wonder if I will actually feel the desire to continue playing.
I want a game that is not ripping off large pieces of other games.
I want X's combat with Y's community and Z's PVP.
I'd rather see a new approach.
A medieval MMORPG without magic.
Statements 1 and 3 agree with each other. Statement 2 is a direct contradiction of both.
I suppose as I've just stated on another thread, a mixure of Neverwinter nights and morrowind.
I want a full beautiful world with things to discover, extensive dungeons, temples, etc to explore, a siege system like Lineage 2 though the game doesn't have to be full pvp, I just like sieging, a lot of character customization, things to do other than questing and grinding, dynamic events though doesn't have to be all the time.
The art design needs to be more "serious" than "not". I don't like cutsey or cartoony.
An economy that is not so harsh so I can adventure and still get by.
They do this and they have me for the life of the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What players complain about and what they ask for are completely different than what they want. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Agreed.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I want what Wow was in 2005. Something new, different, fresh. Previous posters are quite right, seems like all the games coming out not are rip offs, or no, I think rip offs says it all. A few exceptions have been launched, FE, EVE, but the bulk of the latest titles are wow (or some other game) wannabes, or a cash grab from a bought franchise.
EQ1 has a special place in my heart, it's my favorite game of all time, but after so many years, I left it for EQ2 then Wow, then a host of other titles. Innovation is what we're missing. EQ1 had it, Wow (in 2005) had it, EQ2, not as much, PotBS (while not a long term fix) had some great ideas.
Something that isn't a chore to play. Where you play because it's fun at all levels, and you don't ever feel as though you're working to get to a point that is supposed to be better.
Honestly, I had more fun when it was pay by the hour. Trolls didn't even exist, everyone just wanted to get together and enjoy themselves. Uphill both ways, get off my lawn, etc.
I can only answer for myself: I want more variation. I have nothing against EQ styled game but almost every game uses the exact same mechanics.
Some games with different mechanics and different styles of combat would be nice.
I want a Runequest online with those mechanics, now 99% of all MMOs are D&D online with more levels.
I want something it doesn't feel like I been playing since '97 (M59).
And a few more settings than Fantasy, space, superheroes and pirates would be nice as well.
Nothing wrong with current MMOs except they are too similar to eachother.
That works for me too. I want a virtual fantasy world to explore and adventure through. I DON'T want to quest to max level then do raids that everyone else has done. That to me feels like a single player game with company. Everyone ends up being almost exactly the same with the exact same experiences. I want to have some experiences that are unique to me and hear about experiences that are unique to others. That doesn't happen in carefully scripted dungeons and quests. Just make a world, inhabit it with some cool ruins/places of interest and creatures and give me the tools to make my character unique. That's really all I'm looking for. To hell with balance, by the way. If PVP isn't a major focus, which for me it doesn't have to be, then balance is a non-issue.
Also, not everyone has to be the greatest hero of all time. I know it's supposed to make you feel like you've accomplished something but when EVERYONE else accomplishes it too it means you accomplished jack shit. It all comes down to - If everyone is special, then no one is. That's not my idea of a good MMO.
if i would have been asked this over a year ago.. i would have filled this entire thread with a list from hell... but sine its now
now im not trying to sound like another fan boy, but guild wars two pretty much covers about 80% of my issues with modern day mmos.. just look at it thoughly at all the features and the vids at how they work.. i was /sold
The "everyone is hero" thing is an issue because it draws from single player games.
What they are trying to do is incorporate story. This is fine in my opinion. I've played a game that had no story for years and it got tiring. However, where they fail is that they are trying to incorporate a story meant for one character. This doesn't work. It's a essentially a separation of the world and a player. So we are all running around as saviors of the world but "only we know". It's a bit ridiculous.
I realize that telling a sort of "uber story" can be challenging but they need to figure out a way to work major events into a game so that it makes sense that anyone can take part without the story centering around your character.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WoW was far from new, different, or fresh. The only things it did right were marketing, combining elements from other MMOs, and designing a customizable UI. Its intellectual property was made in the likeness of Warhammer. Sword, board, and magic had been done before by EQ, DAOC, and UO. The game was littered with bugs on release and was no better than any other MMO that has been released, although many fanboys won't admit it. Even PvP was nothing new to the MMO genre. I'm pretty sure DAOC started to allow customizing the UI before WoW was realeased, but WoW did take it to the next level. WoW was successful mostly because it had established itself before release by producing other popular games using the same IP.
That said, I would like to see a game that avoids the whole grind-for-levels formula that so many companies rely on to keep short-term subscriptions going. I would also like to see a game that embraces its genre instead of trying to define it. By that, I mean superhero MMOs fail to make players feel "super" because they seem to think we should be challenged by the average 1-3 "thugs" we are forced to fight. Medeival combat MMOs seem to think weapons only swing at one speed and can only hit multipule enemies with a special move. Magic in MMOs has only been done right by Darkfall; everyone else made magic overpowered by allowing it to always work by targeting an enemy.
I want the challenge of EQ1 and it's world after the first two expansions. I want the economy of SWG with Player housing and cites. Add Blizzard to the mix for polish and I would be a happy camper. I have a feeling I will go to my grave before this ever will happen.
+++Wall of Text Alert+++
The funny thing is the MMO community is filled with "I wanters" no one wants the same thing ans those that do want it given to them differently.
Some scream less quests, others scream MORE. the ones that want more quests don't want ANY fetch or kill x quests. Those that don't want quests still want storyline... but how without setting you in some direction or spending MILLIONS on writing staff and scene programming,
Every year that comes around there's a new "Thing" that everyone thinks is gonna give them what they want but another year comes and they're disapointed cause things didn't make the final cut or got pushed back till a later content update.
No ones happy with MMO's anymore
You give the community inovation they scream that it's stupid or glitchy or buggy. But in a game system where people are always together and in the same land without a killer budget that's gonna happen.
You give the community the tried and true and it's "The same old crap"
People also forget that games are new. No game is going to start with the TONS of endgame (without a 15 year production time) content of the current leaders and people ALWAYS I MEAN ALWAYS complain about no endgame content. Even if they DO it's not going to be glitch/bug free.
I heard a quote the other day about the circus that stated that everyone loved it because there was something for everyone. If you hate clowns theres an elephant if you hate that there's acrobats. You found what you liked and focused on it. Now a days people focus on so much BAD they tend to not see what they wanted in the first place.
All the PVP open world sandbox lovers wanted darkfall. Then they wanted Mortal Then they wanted this or that. (just the first example I could remember right now).
Now the big "Hope and dream" is GW2 and KOTOR but those will disapoint not me... but most people. I agree with the OP I'm starting to think people are just burnt out on what technology and budgets currently allow at this station and are forgetting that what makes their "Perfect MMO" does not describe everyones OR for that matter what describes "Success".
It's to the point where people won't even pay 50$ for a box of a game that gives them days of gameplay in the free month if they don't think the game will be worth it's monthly fee before it even comes out. When did we become so fickle. FF11 and WoW and EvE didn't get good user bases because people "Waited" or "Seen what happens in 6 months".
Most gamers need to realise that EVEN if they are the lead producer on a game it's most likely not going to turn out how they wanted to a T. Between budgets and deadlines games take turns shortcuts and setbacks. Unless a game is independant a work of passion by a small team and has an endless budget or somehow blizzard came and made it for you with your advisement; You're never gonna get that:
"PVPVE openworld good crafting with meaningfull fastpaced twichy but tactical great story with no repitiion housing freedom to custimize your character anyway you want still be balanced miracle game"
Oh an PS your old game was NOT amazing. If it was you'd still be playing it... I know some people who legitimatly are (and I played them for a LONG time and aren't now for a reason) NOSTALGIA of your first or favourite does not make a game "Good"
I want a MMO that will give me a sense of adventure. I want to be scared of trying something. I want to get lost and then meet lost players and work together to find the way to somewhere.
I want dungeons that if it is pitch black, I have to bring a torch to see where i am going. Where my next step could be my last but at the same time I long to find the treasure of these caves and hell, possibly being empty.
Basically, a MMO that will make me live emotions closest to a real life situation.
Are you Santa?
Short version: Something like Minecraft as a MMORPG.
The zombie mmo by undead labs sounds very nice as well (not only because of the unusal setting, but also because it sounds like it will be very different from current mmorpgs.)
Hype train -> Reality
i Want gw2 maybe a 3 and a lineage3 (no, TERA IS NOT L3).
and a mount&blade mmo =x
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Most players want an interesting multiplayer game where the game provides them interesting activities to do. Dungeons, crafting, and questing aren't required, but have proven success in the past.
A few players want an interesting world, where there's exclusive parts of the world they can own.
Every player wants their choices to be important. For most this means every time they logon they're making important decisions (instanced PVP, tight PVE balancing.) For some this means infrequent strategic choices (choose to join the zerg guild -> dominate world PVP; AFK-harvest/craft.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Most gamers will deny this but what most want is ignorance.
The feeling of "falling in love" with something new, that's why most people have so many brilliiant stories about their 1st mmorpgs, but they don't play them anymore, they want something exactly like the 1st mmorpg that they loved but new and refreshing...
Basically an impossible task.
Myself, i just want GW2 to be out and to be fun, i don't kid myself in this remark, i'll never find the perfect game because i'm jaded and tired of alot of gaming, but GW2 seems to try to be at least something new.
So that's it for me, just something that's well done and different, i don't want any of my "favorite parts" of older MMOs, just a good different game.
I disagree, while it did have bugs at launch, what mmos don't, it ran far smother than EQ2. At the time EQ2 was the big dog on the block in terms of marketing, honestly, I didn't hear of Wow until Jan 05 and start playing until Feb, while eq2 preorder was still sitting on my desk. Freeport was a nightmare the 1st month in eq2. But I digress,
The reason Wow was different, and I'm defending wow 2005 not wow post BC, is it was a risk, Warcraft 1-3, Hella good games, but a single Charactor in a wide open world is bit different than RTS. They simplified the combat (for better or worse) and before Wow, what game had seamless zoning?
The shine is off the old Wow now though, it's time for change, it's time for someting better/newer to come out, I'm hoping GW2, or SWToR fills the bill for such change.
*edit btw, spot on borrowed "intillectual property" player kills stuff, gets bigger sword, kills bigger stuff with bigger sword, makes friends kills dragon with new friends. Pretty much all fantisy games formula, rence, rename, repeat.
I want a new Asherons Call with all the same stuff from AC 1 that made it so great. Random loot, no classes, no instances, 100% open world, and a physics engine that allows people to dodge missle attacks and magic. and the skill system in that game is just perfection.
I am not quoting you to pick a fight it just sums up a lot of what has been said so far so it easiest to respond to your post and ask questions from here.
I have no issues with players wanting different things we are somewhat like a band we all play music but we like different genres.
Now in response to your post (and many others) I see you talk about innovation and I have to agree it might be what is missing However it makes me ask another question Is a demand for innovation feasible? What I mean by that is should we expect it? While graphics are a given considering the pace we outdate our technology should we expect innovation in gameplay and "style"? While some gameplay aspect have changed some things have not changed since the D&D days the RNG is still ruining lives and creating legendary stories.
Innovation is what is likely needed but it does not guarantee success. Darkfall for instance (not picking on it) could be considered truly innovative a true sandbox pvp gameplay or even aion with its mid air combat. While execution plays a big role also is it possible we are asking for innovations that just aren't there? I have seen many mentions of GW2 and while the game has been well received so far (though I must say it hype so far and only the finished product no matter the game tells the real story) most of what I have seen is less innovation and more improvement. I wont run down a list (because it's not about picking on GW2 at all) but much of what i have seen are bit and pieces of the best from other titles and direct address to issues that have been stated in the GW community. I do not mean to defend the devs but it sounds like sometimes we maybe asking them the re invent the wheel every 3-5 years. Is there any possibility maybe we are expecting too much and at the same time getting to little to meet in the middle?
PS ty for the many replies
I might get flamed for asking this set of questions but I feel its fair to ask. Is it possible to develop a game in this age and want it to be a hit and not borrow from WoW? Is it possible to develop a game in this age borrow from WoW and not expect it to flop?
As a game or MMO?
For me, the whole 'MMO' 'WoW clone' issue is this.
If it is similar to WoW, why would I play that when I already have WoW (it is had WoW now)?
If it is not similar to WoW, why would I play that when I already have Just Cause2, NFS, CIV, BFBC2 etc?
I am getting what I want in KOTOR3 (SWTOR) though.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.