Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
A Repeted Mistake by MMORPG Companies
tavoc
Member UncommonPosts: 257
While the title may be odd, Let me explain.
For going on a decade now mmorpg companys have a habbit of releasing a new title, then a little while after launch nerfing everything. Weather it be exp requireed to level, Increasing Cash made over time, Drop rates, Or the overall dificulty of Boss/names mobs so on so forth. My question still stands.. WHY??
Looking at it from a buisness standpoint, making things easier will keep eye candy to alot of the newer crowd. So they Complain aobut things being to hard, or taking to long or blah blah you all know the list. So they change it to make a little more money in a short spirt. On the other hand the PISS of the original players who busted their ass to hit their respected level, Aquire the their gear, Or even know as much as the game as they do.
"What does that matter?" you may ask.. Well this is where the 'mistake' Is made. Making the original players mad over simple things as this just ads a nail in the coffin of the game by cutting off the orginal, more dedicated players.. This loosing money, Short term gain, long term loss would be easier to say. I have been vitim of this many times in the decade i have been playing mmos. Companies never seem to learn from this and keep doing the same thing in hopes to save their game, only to start to destroy it. The true definition of insanity if you will.
While this may not bother some.. most dont realize the damning effects of this. While alowing newer players to catch up to the experianced players of one game , Begins its downfall. To start, You see a temperary 'crash' in the marker do to some vets leaving do to sheer distain for the companies actions. Second this leaves the Higher level content stagnent as groups are not forming as much do to lack of said players. So the games easier right? the newer players will be there soon and happy day you can group again!!!. WRONG. While there are a quicker influx of higher level players, by making the game easier it takes less devotion to get to x level.. This leads to poor grouping do to less expreianced/geard players. With less experiecne, Less gear, And to some extremes not even begining to know how to play ones class, This frustrated the vets even more.. This is where they start dropping by the droves, While some stay faithfull and somtimes not even 20% of the higher population drops, It also can get alot worse than that. Ive seen over 500 people leave a game in the same week over smaller things.
So the population drops a little, and the game goes haywire for anywhere from a week.. to a few months of server populations flixuating. But normaly this isent over. While this is happening this sends the mmo company into even more of a panic. So what do they normaly do? relase some new content. This is good... BUT after seeing a short influx of subs only to see it drop again they yet again, Nerf.. and the cycle starts all over again!!!
While there is alot more to it than that, and manny more mistakes, This post is getting long already so ill leave it at that.
So now, thoe i may regret this, What are your thoughts on the subject? Do you realy like that companies make things easier for those who start later to so called 'catch up'? Do you share the same fealings as me? Please consider what im trying to say here, and post accordingly. Im not flaming any game, or any company here but it is a obersvation that ive seen happen many times. Just wonder what the rest of the comunity feals.
(Just edit it down a paragraph or 2, aprarently no one watned to read 2 much.)
Comments
Realy? not even one comment?
People tend to not read anything over 20 lines.
This text is too long and too tough to read. You need to make it easier for all of us. Please dev's nerf this text!
)
meh fine ill edit it down, just wanted to cover most things on the subject
heh one must allow more than 37 seconds between posts to read your wall of text!
the problem is not there in my opinion,
the general idea is that they make games easy to appeal to everyone and their grandmothers
i would say less than 20% of people who play MMOs out there have played EQ or UO even less have played MUDs those are the only ones these days that are true gamers, people that want a challenge in their games, that are ready to give in time and dedication.
so mathematically, the more people that play the more money they get
would you rather get 200k people play your game or 11 million?
its what people want these days the MMO used to be made by dedicated gamer developpers with a passion for gaming quality and MMOs where made to be a challenge compared to PONG or PACMAN or SuperMario Bros/DuckHunt
now the developpers are programmers rushed into releasing games because the investors want moneyz quick and more importantly, NOW! so what do they do? they make games that are simple and cater to the masses, which means, easy and easier and the more rewards we give them the more they stay (something to do with the endorphines your body creates when you win at something)
11 million people play WoW,i would bet that less than 20k have played Warcraft: Orcs & Humans
games are easy because its what attracts the MASSES simple as that.
Sorry, I was thinking of a reply to this the other day or whatever. It is hard for me to grasp everything you are saying. It's not that you haven't written down all your thoughts. It's all there. There's just a lot to take in and process.
It sounds like you are onto it.
I never liked it when the game became easier for people to catch up. I don't know if it ever made me quit an MMORPG before, but then again I'm a very special snowflake lol.
its sad that here we are in 2011, and our latest technologies are spent on games with GAMEPLAY much inferior to the gameplay of those 70s/80s arcade classics.
gaming was once about improving your real life skills so you could get further and further in games.
now (in the MMO space at least), its all about " investing " time into a disposable character, where you get further and further in the games by NOT improving your real life skills (a significant portion of your life being taken over by just repetitious whack-a-mole, and quest dialog clicking)
______________________________________
Play my entire game FREE if you want
http://PlayRealNotes.com
I usually separate groups of paragraphs and give them different colored titles when my posts are insanely long (Concrete ideas are LONG).
If the problem is noobs making it harder for veterans then you need to separate them. Let the noobs do their small content while the competent players go for the really awesome content (Requiring mad skillz).
In order to do thi you would need a grouping system, a place where players can find people of their skill and intelligence to associate and work with (I'd use a dynamic city rest system where cities are VERY USEFUL).
As for leveling and endgame, I'd try to go for the limbo approach (Lvl 1 -20 the real progression from baby muffin to adult mega warrior, 20 - X flavor and variation with roughly the same strenght) .
Business in my midn works like this, make a fun game, people like fun and have money, people buy your "fun" game...PROFIT!!!
Phase 1 -> Fun Game
Phase 2 -> People buy the game OMG ROFL copter rabble rabble rabble, herressy!
Phase 3 -> PROFIT!!!
I don't think the games trying to clone wow are making much profit, a completely innovative game would probably be a safer investment (With a competent developer team).
Linear gaming
[A] --------------------> [BCDEFGH...] -----------------------> [Z]
Everyone starts at point A. A whole bunch of people burn through the content and get to point Z.
Now new people come in and COMPLAIN that they are not getting to point Z fast enough.
*** NERF ***
To their credit, the developers of GuildWars figured this out. If you want to roll a PVP toon, instant level-cap.
From another direction, I think this may be part of a flaw in the "end-game" concept. If the game doesn't start until level-cap, then the first levels are nothing more than a tutorial to burn through.
Or maybe it's just that devs cave in and offer "easy mode" as a way to sell more subscriptions.
I wouldn't rule out any of these three.
As others have posted, the sad truth is that while there is certainly an underserved community of MMOers that look for more depth and challenge that is available to us currently, there is a larger pool of gamers that just want quick thrills and feelings of achievement and they are faster, cheaper, and easier to cater to.
Thank you for the tip. and while i agree with you, what i was aiming at is games that do release, and then change everything. Its like they dont think sometiems. It would make more sence to make a game, fix the bugsf and let it go, only changeing the content if they find a way to make things more 'fun'. Either way, it just seems like they just want a quick buck..
Good idea btw^^ the grouping system
True enouhg. I miss older games. Anyway I realy think, at this poitn atleast alot more peopple are looking for more of a challange, not just the old timers of the industry but some people even only playing mmos for a year want more of a chalage with their time. I say this becasue of people i have met in mmo's aswell as reading posts here on this webiste
"To their credit, the developers of GuildWars figured this out. If you want to roll a PVP toon, instant level-cap".
Whaa!!
All this AN worshipping is getting way out of hand.....
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Would it not be financialy better to make the came cater to the lesser crowd thoe? 300k subs over a 4 year span > 600k subs for 6 months
they rather have some cash in 6 month close rince repeat rather than wait 4 years
investors want their money back and more NOW! regardless of who it screws over
i mean if a game launches and makes its money back in say 3 months and then makes 50% more in the next 3
investors put in say 1 million $ they gets 1.5 million$in 6 months, they say success and close down. rince repeat.
Exactly- not only is it closer to instant gratification (investors and the current MMO generation both love that!) but even bad games still have subs- look at STO and CO- people are still p(l)aying. Not only that, but getting the money back and earning a profit even on a bad game gets them the the fundage greenlight by the publisher to get to work on the next forgettable game- keeps developers, programmers, etc working and bringing home a paycheck.
I'd rather see long-term gamers be catered to but it really doesn't seem like these companies are willing to put forth the time, forethought, and effort to do it well.
I think part of the problem is that too many games are released with little to no end game content.
Producing a game requires a investment, and the investors want a return on their money. The fastest way to get a return is to release the game and start collecting box sales and monthly subscription fees.
I think too many games are released too early, in order to start the cash flow. Companies reason that players can play up to the level cap, and end game content will be produced and released at a later date. The game is designed to take a long time to reach the level cap, so the company has time to produce and release more content.
Once end game content is released, the difficulty is then nerfed as the O.P. described, and everyone who grinded their way to the cap feels annoyed that the game is so much easier now.
Only companies with large amounts of capital can afford the time and resources to avoid this problem of early release with insufficient content. Other companies must be careful and release later nerfs are likely to cause anger in their game's community, if implemented poorly.
While true it is a shame. Investers acting like that realy hinders the quality of games. AOC comes to mind. Anyway would it realy be too much to ask for a quality game that lasts? even with my short end scenaria i posted. only 6 months time later they would make a 100% comeback. then while holding a steady 300k subs they would have 3 years of pure profit, while i know some goes to paying employes, devloping new content so on, Just would be smarter to go for lasting quality than quick garbage.
It's not the result of complaints or people wanting 'easy mode'. You are correct, though about the endgame thing. One thing that I wish more people would do is actually walk through in their mind the scenario they are presenting, because the answer is usually self-evident.
People play MMOs to play with others.
It's year five of your MMO. Since you're a five-year old MMO, you have a core audience of veteran players and more than likely a low number of new players coming in compared to what the original starter zones werre designed for. A new player starts and the starting zone is relatively empty. Fine... most players can deal with that because they know they are firing up a five-year old MMO.
However, the community is at the far and and the new players are probably not going to stay unless they become part of the community or even feel remotely connected to it. The goal then is to get the new players into the community simply being able to play around all the others is a much stronger retention factor than even some of the best game content.
"While alowing newer players to catch up to the experianced players of one game , Begins its downfall"
ActionM, since you're creating an MMO, what is your plan for 4-5 years down the road? What are the changes you expect to make in gameplay or mechanics in order to address this very possible scenario. I'm not so much asking for your answer here, rather offering some food for thought as you design your game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nice article.. You hit some areas that might be true or not.. However, in general I would have to disagree with your over assumption on what is wrong with gaming.. From my point of view from where I sit and what I want from a MMO since 1999.. I want a meaningful productive leveling exp.. Meaning I want my choices and my experience to make a difference, rather it be ingame or with people.. I want people to say, "oh dude, you remember that druid that always healed for us when we were doing this, or doing that".. This comes from leveling content that has purpose and a reason to group.. A game that runs on rails from start to finish is going to bypass all that was good.. (from my point of view)..
Then you get to end game.. I think most end games are just grinds.. Every person has a breaking point when enough is enough.. While killing the starting boss in IceCrown for the 101 time was TOO many for me, others would say they are just getting started.. In my opinion I find most end game content to be dry and empty of soul.. PvP could be part of the formula IF it was global with purpose, but these E sport group duels and bg's just don't have a purpose.. Win or Lose, who cares? Your just doing it for points..
Bioware and Arenanet are going to challenge the current formula of MMO, and I hope with success.. If the games are social, fun to play, I'll be there until the end.. but if they fail to deliver and give us more themeparks that run on rails that also causes the community to fight amongst themselves instead of the mobs.. I'll go back to my PS3 again.. LOL
Was me who stated the downfall. Thoe to answer your question, That can actualy be solved by simply having just a little bit of foresight.
ok so, Theoreticly
You sit down and start creating a mmo. You know full well, if hyped the game will hold Y amont of players at launch. after a few months the base of the populatio will normaly level out leving you with N amount of players, or atlest close. I tihnk an easy way to handle that part is actualy make the content suitable for the lower pop POST launch. Whle this can cause some complaints on launch by players overcrowdign areas that would die out fast.
That was just an example, now of course 4 years down the road its realy hard not to change some things.. bring in fresh meat the the content or revamp or whatnot. At this point i would say it is accaptable to lower requirements of a few things. but try and predit things, but another thing that lies there is the evil twin. Dificulty in aquireing gear! That is one other huge problem (heard many complaints about ff11 on this) Game x comes out with a 'elite' set of gear, for a year or so players bust their ass getting it.. grinding/farming/craftign whatever. expac comes out... normaly company nerfs what it takes to get said gear, while understandable they go to far, as to the people that worked on it for 8 months, the newer people are getting it in THREE. = agrivation.
Ill leave it at that cuz the next part of this is a whole nother issue on its own.. overpoweing the new xpac gear
Amen to the bioware/anet comment in red
. Im pro guild wars 2 myself, thoe i have no doubt int eh ability of bioware with swotor.
I will say this thoe, the main purpose of my post was not to cover most of the problems. In my mind there are so many problems with current mmo formulas that well.. i dont have enough room on any thred to type out. I was however pointing out one of those problems here that i think is a fatal mistake in the industry, atleast by the way it has been handled in many of the games i have played. nothing more.
Let's skip theory and deal with actual history and practice. Can you give examples to support your statement that allowing new players to catch up to the veteran playerbase causes an MMO's downfall?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Are you saying WOW did better because it's easier? If so, did you even play War1? It wasn't very hard at all. I wipe in WOW:Cata heroics considerably more often than I lost in War1.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
smooth gameplay and lots of content... at least for months lol. Once people get caught in endless repetitive tasks it will be hard to quit cuz they achieved "so much" lol. I remember playing WC in MS-DOS back in the day.