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I wished they never messed with the old world

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  • The_GrumpThe_Grump Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by page

    I'll admit I'm burned out from playing WoW on and off for so many years.  I'll admit that I like leveling from scratch.  I'll admit that I never even made it to 80.   I did not buy Cataclysm, and for NOW I don't plan on it.....I'm mad.....I have this nasty little voice inside me saying I hope Cataclysm fails because they messed with the old world.

     

    Why didn't Blizzard just make another new Continent 1-40, or 1-60 ?

     

    To make matters worst why do all the areas have chain quest to separate grouping even more ?

    Who's Idea was this ?...........Is everyone really happy with this ?

    I hate to be rude, I really do. I hate even more when someone misses incredibly clear points, something that seems to be a prerequisite for frequenting these forums.

    (1) Blizzard didn't make another continent. They no doubt batted around the idea but for various reasons it seemed to them to not be the best idea. After all, too many people complain about things being 'the same old same old,' 'too easy' (blame the add-ons, not the game designers), or something else. I'm sure you could find their reasoning if you dig a little. More to the point, new areas have been added that encourage players to go back to Azeroth instead of relegating it to something that has to be suffered for 58-60 levels. Your complaint is something that Blizzard actually saw as a problem, dividing the community of players unnecessarily.

    (2) Chain quests, even chain quests operating purely in a single region or zone, do not separate grouping. Chain quests don't even entail grouping, nothing save instances or quests that have '(Group)' tagged next to it in the quest log entail grouping.

    (3) Cataclysm was the idea of the various designers and, believe it or not, a serious percentage of the player base. From what I have seen, aside from incredibly annoying UI issues and an even longer queue time than before, Cataclysm is an incredible expansion. Archeology is fun and has a point if you are interested in the lore (and if you're not, why the hell are you playing a MMORPG?). You can fly in Azeroth, something that adds to the experience of exploration. Lore that had a longstanding basis in the game saw the birth of two new playable races, the Goblins and the Worgen. Questing is more sensible and less cluttered. Old dungeons have been revamped, even for lower levels. People that refuse to learn how to play their classes are now complaining about Heroic Dungeons. And, more than anything else, people have to relearn how to play their classes in some real way.

    Play Cataclysm. Play it, don't treat it like a job and you won't get burnt out. If you're tired of playing World of Warcraft then say that instead of saying 'burnt out' and at that point play a different game. You can get bored, it happens, but when you get 'burnt out' you're seriously doing something wrong.

    When I think about this post I think about the reality of this site and the reality of pretty much any forum: it's a bitching post instead of a place for constructive conversation. Granted, it's important to give complaints the air they deserve but they need to be based on more than whimsy.

    (1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
    (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.

  • The_GrumpThe_Grump Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    Originally posted by Azrile


    Originally posted by Skeeterxi

    Revamping the old world is really the only credit I can give them this expansion. It was really well done and the story telling techniques with cut scenes and phasing makes it a lot more interesting and involving. I agree with some one else though the goblin starter zone was too whacky and pretty much felt tackled on in a hurry, but I guess that is just the Goblin personality. The rest of the expansion was just copy+paste of the same old crap we got  already with the past two expansions. A new level cap, a couple of new BGs and 5 mans you can do until you can raid. It is exactly the same. I would like to see them try something new.

    Let me ask you this.  If you were in charge of the largest MMORPG.   And as far as i know (besides maybe EVE) the only MMORPG that actually is growing subscribers....  would you drastically change things?.  Right before the expansion, WOW broke it´s own subscriber record... doing exactly what they have been doing the past 4 years.

    Games make drastic decisions when they are falling down ( Star Wars NGE,  Ultima Online Age of  Shadows).  In those cases, the game was bleeding subscribers so the devs tried to change things drastically (grasping at straws).  Then you have EQ2 and LOTRO who made their drastic change by going Free2Play.    Then you have AOC and Warhammer that are just dying without making any drastic decisions.

    Honestly, you just don´t mess with success.  WOW is hugely popular just because of the formula they have been using.  Don´t expect anything to change any time soon.

    I think revamping the world was a good idea and expediting experience also.  I have always said that when the low level game starts to die out, the entire game starts to die.  Apparently Blizzard noticed this.

    HOWEVER...., IMO, Blizzard made three critical mistakes:

    1)  Made the game too linear, too story driven.  Players might tolerate this first time or two through, but replayability is shot as it will be maddening to run successive alts through.  (Too many cutscenes too and this phasing crap).

    2)  Too many pop culture references.  Uldum could have been a very cool ancient-Egypt pyramid-type zone, but they ruined with with the silly stupid Harrison Jones.  This made the game a joke instead of the ominous mysterious zone it could have been.

    3)  Not enough 80-85 content.  Folks spent the last 2 years running circles in Dalaran and spamming the LFG tool, and for their long wait and allegiance to the game they get a mere 5 fast levels of content.  Unbelievable.

    In summary, Blizz turned wow into a quick one-shot single player RPG.

    Blizzard did more than give them a mere 5 levels worth of content. To look at things through that lens is to grossly miss the point and to be using the wrong lens in the first place. If you can lose that lens you'll see that there is much more that Blizzard has offered their player base. Blizzard cannot help that so many people choose to play the game as a race to the highest tier of gear instead of experiencing the World of Warcraft. Sometimes developers mess up and give players too little, I am in complete agreement with that, but sometimes, alarmingly often actually, players don't take advantage of what the developers have really offered.

    (1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
    (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.

  • The_GrumpThe_Grump Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by page

    I understand that you can solo play in the world map, and group in the dungeon finder, but look at it this way it's an mmo. Every time I leave my house in real life it's to indirectly meet new people..The Mall..the gym... Without indirectly meeting people sometimes what's the point of going out.

    I play an mmo to play a multi player game.  WoW was the most social of them all.  Then came the dungeon finder, and made Guilds close to worthless ( at least your average guild ). Then the expansion with quest chains and phasing to separate even more.........I'm sad, I guess it's over for me with mmo's...Whe knows, maybe GW2.

    A new Continent would have been better in my opinion.......I understand that many of you like it this way, so have fun :) 

    (1) Guilds are what their members make them, period. It's a combination of leadership and the people in the guild actually functioning as a guild.

    (2) Your analogy doesn't limp, it's crippled fundamentally. The Dungeon Finder Tool made it easier for people to group and made it possible for people that weren't able to group, for whatever reason, to learn how to play well in a group setting. The Dungeon Finder Tool also made it easier to meet people, both on your own realm and others in your Battelgroup.

    (3) Some things are phased in some areas, the only areas that are like the Death Knight starting zone are the Worgen and Goblin starting zones. Other areas participate in phasing in small ways (remember the Shadow Vault in Icecrown in the Wrath expansion?), such as the Forsaken High Command in Silverpine Forest.

    Proof positive: not all opinions are of equal merit, especially when they are lacking in factual power.

    (1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
    (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.

  • odelldanieljodelldanielj Member UncommonPosts: 25

    The problem is you can't keep a game successful if you only cater to your core group, and after 6 years that core group has 6 toons at max level.  Just ask SOE about EQ.  They did nothing but cater to their core group for years, and they lost any possible chance of new subscribers.  Now it's a smaller game with nothing but the core group who has been playing it for a decade.  Now I'll give you SOE made a few other mistakes with launching content to early about the same time WOW was coming on line, but you have to cater to would be subscribers too if you want to stay on top of the heap.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

    Originally posted by odelldanielj

    The problem is you can't keep a game successful if you only cater to your core group, and after 6 years that core group has 6 toons at max level.  Just ask SOE about EQ.  They did nothing but cater to their core group for years, and they lost any possible chance of new subscribers.  Now it's a smaller game with nothing but the core group who has been playing it for a decade.  Now I'll give you SOE made a few other mistakes with launching content to early about the same time WOW was coming on line, but you have to cater to would be subscribers too if you want to stay on top of the heap.

     And I think the best way to do this is a new 20-60 Continent, instead of playing around with the old world.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,760

    Originally posted by odelldanielj

    The problem is you can't keep a game successful if you only cater to your core group, and after 6 years that core group has 6 toons at max level.  Just ask SOE about EQ.  They did nothing but cater to their core group for years, and they lost any possible chance of new subscribers.  Now it's a smaller game with nothing but the core group who has been playing it for a decade.  Now I'll give you SOE made a few other mistakes with launching content to early about the same time WOW was coming on line, but you have to cater to would be subscribers too if you want to stay on top of the heap.

     

    I so disagree. What made people leave eq was that they were changing the game trying to get other type of players in, in effect slowly ruining the game basics that made up the game. Undoubtly every patch in WoW has changed alot, and yet not much at all - Mostly they just shake the bag, and then lay out the pieces in a different way (sorry Vanilla lovers ^^).

    What devs should do these days is realizing that they cant copy every new trend trying to beat their competition, but rather find the core of their game and do that even better than they did before. Maybe we will see less BLAH, and games with individual style and with a crowd to match it.

  • KruulKruul Member UncommonPosts: 482

    It makes me think of TOA when I think of Cata. Why mess with something thats isn't broken

  • IronfungusIronfungus Member Posts: 519

    Originally posted by page

    Why didn't Blizzard just make another new Continent 1-40, or 1-60 ?

    Well according to them, they just don't have the money. :(

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    Originally posted by Darkholme

    So far this thread is filled with misinformation and biased opinion, not facts... so please don't represent tham as anything more than that.

    In my opinion the total revamp of the old world (including heavy use of phasing in some areas) is on of the best features of Cataclysm. I think people are just prone to hating on WoW just because it's what all the cool kids are doing these days... or at least they think they're cool, which is apparently enough for them.

     

    This. The anti-trend is sooo popular amongst these people.

  • DaxPierceDaxPierce Member Posts: 172

    I applaud the change. As someone who has been playing on and off for 5 years (mostly on), I find it refreshing I don't have to do 3 quests in a zone, then head on over to a new continent to do another 3 quests, 2 of which are for a dungeon. WOW just isn't for everyone. It was never really hard even before the changes, its just more streamlined like Burning Crusade which I believe is the most revered expansion.

     

    I DO however feel your pain about WOW right now. While I think its a ton of fun, and fast to level 1-60 now, thats as far as I can get. I actually cannot bare to jump into Hellfire let alone outlands to quest, and even Northrend is still old. I REALLLLLY wish they would have made 60-80 content, and perhaps they will in the next expansion, until then, this is "Altaclysm".

     

    What I would like to see is more social things added to the game. Player and Guild housing being one of them. The dance studio which has been in development for god knows how long, and MAYBE just maybe appearance slots. Im not even a RPer and I want appearance slots. I think we're finally seeing the decline of WOW, maybe they will come out with something new and thats great. For now, Im looking forward to Tera and Rift.

  • IronfungusIronfungus Member Posts: 519

    No, this is no simple bandwagon people are jumping on. World of Warcraft has problems. HUGE issues that the developers completely ignore because, well, why fix it if they're still getting money? They prefer to milk it out for all it's worth before they even consider patching. These problems didn't exist so much back when Blizzard was separate from Activision. Unfortunately after the deal, we have amazing choices to look forward to like Real ID. 

    The moderators are all useless. All of them.

    Class balance? What class balance?

    Healing is now the easiest and most boring job in Cataclysm. They claim this is fun and challenging, but this is not the case.

    Warcraft's rich lore has been butchered to the point where it's no longer worth reading. Honestly, with people like Chris Metzen on the team, it's no wonder. 

    They claim to have brought back CC, but it's still possible to do without. There is still no real difference from classes anymore. 

     

    World of Warcraft is really nothing more than a glorified clone of all other MMOs before it. It did a lot right, and during 2004-2006, I really, really enjoyed the game. However, I believe that the game just went completely downhill after Burning Crusade.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    HOWEVER...., IMO, Blizzard made three critical mistakes:

    1)  Made the game too linear, too story driven.  Players might tolerate this first time or two through, but replayability is shot as it will be maddening to run successive alts through.  (Too many cutscenes too and this phasing crap).

    2)  Too many pop culture references.  Uldum could have been a very cool ancient-Egypt pyramid-type zone, but they ruined with with the silly stupid Harrison Jones.  This made the game a joke instead of the ominous mysterious zone it could have been.

    3)  Not enough 80-85 content.  Folks spent the last 2 years running circles in Dalaran and spamming the LFG tool, and for their long wait and allegiance to the game they get a mere 5 fast levels of content.  Unbelievable.

    In summary, Blizz turned wow into a quick one-shot single player RPG.

    By "critical mistake", you mean to make the best selling PC game/expansion of history?

    1) Not everyone runs a bunch of alt through the same content in a short time. I would much rather it is more enjoyable the first time through (which it is head & shoulders better than the old content now).

    2) Well you dont enjoy it, others do. No one i know (or in my guild) have complained about that. Most have a nice chuckle about it.

    3) But there is plenty of L85 content. In fact, the whole TB hub is more content than WG when it was introduced at 80. Most people spent most of their time at 85 ayway .. not leveling from 80-85.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    3) But there is plenty of L85 content. In fact, the whole TB hub is more content than WG when it was introduced at 80. Most people spent most of their time at 85 ayway .. not leveling from 80-85.

    Are dailies really content?

  • IllyssiaIllyssia Member UncommonPosts: 1,507
    I think you can safely play the game 80-85 with main, then try an alt 1-58 and you are done sir. maybe 1-2 month sub at most.
  • lortegedlorteged Member Posts: 143

    Yes, most of the quests are chain, but the chains are mostly 2-4 quests, and then its done..

  • JLVDBJLVDB Member Posts: 281

    Originally posted by Illyssia

    I think you can safely play the game 80-85 with main, then try an alt 1-58 and you are done sir. maybe 1-2 month sub at most.

    Scratching 3% of the content and challenges is not done.

    I am playing 5 years of WOW and never ever even came close to being done with one character, let alone with 2 ... or 3.

    As a matter of fact I - like the vast majority of other Wow players - I always run miles behind from what I consider 15-20% "done" in this game.

    If you think that leveling is "done" go back and play Diablo 1 or Mario 1.

    You simply have no clue why people play WOW for 6 years long.

    And you publish this kind of comment in an MMORPG forum ? LOL...

    That failure game has around 70% market share for 6 years now.

    Go figure how much you're off in estimating things.

  • HomituHomitu Member UncommonPosts: 2,030

    Old Azerothian zones now have more quests that coincide within a zone to tell a complete, sometimes compelling story particular to that zone.  Moreover, the new quests are filled with TONS of treats for players who have played through all the old quests over and over again.  As an example, I look to the revamped Westfall quests, which place you in the role of detective in a zone-wide murder mystery.  This chain eventually culminates in revealing a spy among the Westfall Brigade: the daughter of the late Edwin Van Cleef.  Seemingly one of the kinder, more compassionate members of the Westfall Brigade, she is secretly reorganizing the Brotherhood and leading an insurgency against Stormwind.

     

    All of this has tremendous context with the old quest chain that culminated in the death of Van Cleef.  Additionally, this and hundreds of quests like it help create a consistent sense of time continuity, that all of these events are taking place 6-7 years after the old quests.  The world truly feels like it has evolved.  That and the new quests are more focused, have a greater story-telling capacity, and are simply more fun.  

     

    As far as leveling with others goes, the current mmo quest model itself is not conducive to cooperative play.  Unless you have characters that you and your leveling partner(s) agree to absolutely not touch unless you are all online together, then one person is bound to out-level the other, or advance further in a zone's quest line.  This is true for both the old and new WoW quests, and it's true for dozens of other MMOs that use the quest model.  A model like Guild Wars 2's dynamic event system seems to be the answer to your gripe.  In that model, events or "quests" simply occur in the world, and you and everyone else nearby in the present time can opt to participate in them.  In this system, you can never NOT be on the same "quest" with your friends while leveling up.  

  • JLVDBJLVDB Member Posts: 281

    Originally posted by Homitu

    As far as leveling with others goes, the current mmo quest model itself is not conducive to cooperative play.  Unless you have characters that you and your leveling partner(s) agree to absolutely not touch unless you are all online together, then one person is bound to out-level the other, or advance further in a zone's quest line.  This is true for both the old and new WoW quests, and it's true for dozens of other MMOs that use the quest model.  A model like Guild Wars 2's dynamic event system seems to be the answer to your gripe.  In that model, events or "quests" simply occur in the world, and you and everyone else nearby in the present time can opt to participate in them.  In this system, you can never NOT be on the same "quest" with your friends while leveling up.  

    Yep and those "event system thing that happens for everyone" is a dud already. Nobody enjoys these global event systems that just are triggered randomly into zones. Blizzard uses them in pre launches of expansions and they are the only things that bore me to death.... after 2 days.

    Luckily it only happens every 2 years or so (or with a season quest), but I think it is the worst part doing in an mmorpg these days.

    Massive reconquering of Gnom, massive invasion of zombies, massive changes of the Sunwell Isles.

    It all changes, it all happens above the heads of each individual player and it is boredom the second or third time you are into that mess of zergy PVE dps. In fact you do this exactly one time and then you just watch how silly those "events" really are.

    It won't ever replace individual incensitive and playing styles.

    Which idiot tries to put out those fires more than twice in those "event" seasonal group quests in the burning of Goldshire ?

    Please raise the hand. : No one.

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