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DC Universe Online: Grinding My Gears
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
There's no better title than the one MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood gave to his latest entry into the Staff Blog. What is grinding his gears, he says, are the folks complaining that DC Universe Online isn't measuring up to what a "real" MMO should be. Check out Jon's thoughts and then add a few of your own in the comments below.
I mean fine, if you’re an old school purist who doesn’t like anything that isn’t a wide open sandbox, then sure, slag on the game cause it’s not for you. But for those people out there who play other modern MMOs, but have decided for some reason to attack DCUO, I just don’t get it.
Read more of Jon's blog post here.
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Comments
My thoughts exactly. I keep coming onto MMORPG.com and seeing all the latest forum posts down talking DCUO left and right. The game is actually fun. It's got great new concepts and to be honest will be a big hit once the "purists" stfu and people start testing these new waters.
What is the innovation the DCU is making for mmos? Replacing hotkeys with mouseclicks? Limiting the amount of abilities players can use so it is compatible with a console controller?
DCU is a cut from the same cloth as any typical mmo out right now in terms of design. Quest to level. Instanced dungeons. Raids with token collection for raid armor. Pvp battlegrounds. Talent trees. Health/man poitions. Tank/dps/healer trinity. Nothing the game does really deviates from the basic format of mainstream mmos.
Sure it is an mmo, but at its heart it is an mmo that has been scaled down to meet the limitations that are presented by a console system and resulted in the limited options. Number of powers, character customization, npc models, chat, emotes, etc. The game really isn't breaking new ground as much as it is scaling back features to make it cross platform compatible.
I think that is the message people are trying to say when they make statements that DCU isn't an mmo. The game is extremely watered down in comparison to what PC mmos are capable of.
Guild wars mustve been designed for a console also....but when they limited available skill sets they called it innovation....
I currently play darkfall and most likely wont stop anytime soon even after i sub to DCU, But those very details that you are belittling are the exact reasons myself and im sure thousands of other players have already put up the 50 bucks...
What would you have preffered DCU to be like? a wow clone? 40 hotkeys on the screen at the same time...Auto attack? Small theme park zones? Designated classes to assure content that wouldnt be solo friendly?
Innovation isnt something your gonna find in a particular detail or feature when it comes to DCU but instead im hoping to find it in a much more valuable area, The experience.
There is more limiting DCU than just the amount of available powers, but the amount of powers available is clearly designed for use with console controllers.
The points I made have no bearing on someones ability to enjoy or hate the game and trying to read it as such will just overlooks the points I made.
No I don't want yet another wow clone, but again that wasn't the point I was making.
Damn good article. The game is fun.
After playing CoX and CO you get used to the customization from the get go, so DCUO sort of aggravated me when I first started it. It wasn't long before I found out you unlock a TON of stuff as you play and you can re-customize your character anytime without the need of a "tailor" (never knew why superheroes needed a tailor).
Personally I was also worried about the console port but after playing in the CB for a while it is definitely not watered down when it comes to features, It's a fast paced MMO.
All the so called "console compatible features" are not the way the seem. Yes you do use left and right click for attacking which is much more involved and user intensive then auto attack. Yes you only get to use 8 hotkeys (6 abilities, one consumable, and one trinket), but this isn't the limit that everyone is thinking it is. This is designed for thought you don't just get endless abilities that are minor variations from others you already have or stronger versions of ones you already have. No this limited hotkey system balances each ability so that you (should with thought) have a great variety of power with the minimum number of hotkeys needed. One of the bigger innovations from the current mmo module is the way you have combos, blocks, blockbreakers, leapstrikes, and dodge rolls that all work and play to the skill of the player. So many people complain about people hedgehogging (dodge rolling continuesly) and how they are untouchable, when the system built counters to every attack and every evade including dodge rolls. Honestly the biggest part of the dislike I have found in this game is that no one has bothered to research exactly how this game works mechanically (they think that a tank should just stand infront of the boss and take all the dmg then complain when a healer can't keep them healed). Honestly this game has great depth and potential, one simply needs to unlearn the concept of the current mmo module and learn that DCUO is something else entirely.
No really this isn't true it was put with console controllers because it was designed in a way that ended up compatible not the other way around. With the weapon system using up your mouse they didn't want uneeded action buttones (as it is if you use a keyboard, while holding down a w, a, s, or d key they at the same time push the 8 key and imagine doing this in intense combat) the limited hotkeys are to play to the mouse based weapon system NOT to console controllers.
DCUO is pushing the genre forward, its about as innovative as any other upcoming game, what it does, has been done before, its just doing it in an MMO setting. The combat is quite new to the MMO space.
As for the power bar being limited, I guess you're telling me that GW1 was also made for consoles so thats why it has a limited bar. Global Agenda also? A limited bar or customization has nothing to do with it being a game created to run on a console platform. There are games out there with much less customization. As for the controller, I can easily play a game like Fallen Earth utilizing a controller with over 25 skills on my hotbar each of them mapped to a controller button configuration, so again not really a constraint.
The game is only "watered down" because it revolves around a sub genre that is essentially already watered down. Crafting really doesn't make sense in the super hero genre, league bases would make sense, but not when you have a super hero watchtower.
I think if the game were to have launched as a PC only title it would have followed the same path exactly, as it should have, theres nothing wrong with the game (direction wise). Afterall is champions online a good indicator of how to make a more in depth game? It had tons more powers and movement abilities, but they were pretty much good for nothing as none of them functioned any differently then any of the others save for maybe one or two sets that provided healing or 3 hit melee combos. This games direction doesn't have to correlate specifically with a console release, it just makes it easier for people who don't like it or aren't good at it to blame it on something.
I found DCUO fun. I use the controller on PC version myself cause i find it easier since i played more action games on consoles then my pc and am use to it. I just think the control scheme will be so different to people who mainly play MMORPGs and they won't give it a real chance. MMORPGs fans always saying combat needs to be changed in every new MMO but they seem to like the old target and auto attack and hit hotbar keys combat more.
I will difinitely be playing this game for at least the free month cause I know I will enjoy it for that long. Rift will be playable Feb 24 for preorders so thats why i say one month for sure cause I may get RIFt.
DCUO is an arcade game on steroids..or maybe an anorexic MMO.. whichever you prefer, The combat is so arcadish that a lot will be turned off. Thats why I feel, knowing SOE that combat will be overhauled with 6 months to something more in the middle between arcade and mmo.
Couldn't have said it any better.
I dunno....You say it isnt innovative because "Its cut from the same cloth as any typical mmo" and in the same breath you say "The game is extremely watered down in comparison to what PC mmos are capable of"....
MMO's in the past have added small features like guild leveling and Public quest (WAR), and have been tagd as innovative features...DCU has taken there combat system and ramped it up to match the speed of combat you usually only find in action games with an engine that lets you perform actions you can again only perform in action games....pretty radical change of pace from your average mmo....
But whats part of DCU is "extremely watered down"? you just mentioned all the features weve come to expect in most mmo's and has a few more you failed to mention that we cant find in most mmo's...
I have a feeling your just a sophisticated troll but id love to know why you call DCU "extremely watered down"?
why do they seperate the blog comments from this?
idk about the people complaining about the limited hotbars....
It makes you actually decide which skills best suits you...
oh and didnt some other game limit hotbars also?
OH YEAH! the game voted MMO of the Decade ....Guildwars...
i havent played dcuo...prolly wont... but i might. ^^
i love colors!
i quite enjoyed the beta, and will more than likely get this when it goes live. the combat i think is what makes it so enjoyable, you can switch easily from ranged to melee. you can smash and grab or brawl whatever your style. The only concern i have with the game is that it is light on content. most people will charge through it in a week or so when it comes out and then what?? i guess that give it a month or 2 for getting going but after that they would want to have regular updates and new quests etc to keep people playing otherwise people will play this for a month and then go elsewhere. But i will say again before i get trolled is that i really enjoyed the beta.
Excellent article. It amazes me that the same people who'll b!tch to no end about the lack of innovation or variety killing the MMO genre will immediately pounce on anything that doesn't follow the typical MMORPG blueprint. Grow up. A truly action-based MMO is a nice departure from the norm, and having the choice of two different specs to play at all times is more innovation than I've seen out of most recent games, and actually sounds like fun. DCUO isn't everyone's brand of vodka, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
The bottom line is that games are moving forward, even if many players are not. Sandbox games are dying, the WoW model has been copied so many times that anything that even resembles it induces vomitting in many gamers. Gone are the days of AO, DAOC, SWG Pre-Cu (which wasn't that special to begin with), etc. People need to accept that, and stop spewing vitriol at any game that shows divergence from what's become the MMORPG norm that we've been stuck with the last few years.
No lol . its true. 6 abilities will make me stay away from it. If i had to play a dumbed down console MMO with only six abilities i would never play it for more than a day. PPL want amazing depth and hundreds of spells and abilities. Just look at diablo, or any other succesfull mmo or rpg. PPL want depth. In the gameplay and in the progression of your character. For more info on mmo Depth : have a look at www.mmodesign.net
Even in Aion where i have over 50 abilities and spells, its not nearly enough, and for the powerups and buttonmashing you can set up macros too.
Was going to hav a look at this game, but not anymore... PPL want Depth and Quality. Bottom line.
Though I did get frustrated sometimes when wanting to slot certain abilities with certain roles but not having enough room, DCUO's limited hotbar necessarily a bad thing; you do your best with what you have, no matter how "limited". I rather enjoyed playing the game more than micromanaging those would-be skills. It was a fun experience, though I wont subscribe to it, I hope those who do will enjoy the game.
First off really fun game.. second when and where does dcuo claim tobe an inovative mmo all it says is that it has action based combat which it does if you play wit a ps3 controller.. Why cant a game just be fun nowadays.. how would dcuo be helpful to the mmo communitty by being innovative? it is what it is, a classic throwback to streets of rage esc combat with rpg and mmo elements thrown in to make one hell of a good time.. The only reason this wont succeed is because of the monthly fee. Lots of ps3 console players dont understand you play this 10 x longer in a month than you would any 60 dollar game.. i can see the gripe if it was a xbox game with the fee of live and this but with psn being free that isnt a problem..Anyway i just hate how all the forum trolls ruin the chance of somone having a good, time by bashing a game before its launched because its not like their current fanboy mmo. In the end its a good game when the bugs get fixed and the servers are tweaked with day 1 purchase from a wow fanboy
Just going to say that I agree with those bashing DCUO. I was very interested in this game, but when I finally got my chance at the PS3 Beta I found it to be a big letdown. I hope other people who're interested in this game get a chance to try before you buy. Maybe a year after release if I still hear the rave reviews I hear everywhere now, but I'm doubting that I will.
Is it just me or do the writers at MMORPG.com always try and put a positive spin on just about every game they review. Personally, I don't really trust any site reviews anymore, they're always so damn positive. It's only us the actual Players who have the gall to call these like we see them.
Where to start?
Character creation. Limited body types, limited options, poor interface, facial hair hard linked to head hair, lack of sliders to adjust most features, etc. As with most things in DCU, it has the basic elements that most mmos have, but it is very limited and watered down. This is a super hero game and it isn't even on par with its competition in the one of the most important aspects of character creation. Even if there are a few new options that open up from collecting loot much later in the game, it doesn't even compare. One of the larger complaints is that it is very difficult to create a character that fits a players concept. The best way I've heard it described is the creator offers two basic choices, spandex hero and urban street wear.
Powers sets, again very limited and somewhat hard wired to a "role" system that itself doesn't function very well. Many concerns over being unable to create a character concept within the powersets offered. Also the limited number of powers that can be accessed, but this subject has been beaten to death already.
With just a basic travel power the entire city can be crossed in under 6 minutes. Running, jumping or flying it doesn't matter. That is how tiny the gameworld is. How long do you think a gameworld that small will take to explore?
Look at how lacking the social tools are. The chat system is woefully underdeveloped. Emotes almost non-exsistant. Grouping system and guild systems are mysteries. Just trying to target another player or npc to get basic information about them is cumbersome and lacking.
The game world is filled with the same cut/paste npcs and cars over and over again. I'm not talking about spread throughout the city, but standing right next to each other in packs you will see the same identical models/colors multiple times.
Content is also very similar. Missions for example are simply cut/paste between heroes and villains with slightly altered objects at the end. Even with that being that case there is a lack of quantity of content that most will consume in a matter of weeks with just casual gameplay.
Where does most of the backstory from the major events in the DCU world come from? Collecting little question marks that appear in random and meaningless locations. Instead of interogating important characters in the game world, investigating crime scenes or searching areas of interest much of the lore is handed out as part of some collection minigame that is almost entirely disconnected from the basic concept of what a super hero game is about. Instead of investigating all this information into the actual game world it is scattered randomly and meaninglessly throughout the world to give players a minigame to fill time with.
No crafting, housing, economy, lfg, etc, etc.
I'm not saying there are not good features in the game or positive aspects, but on the whole the game is made up of scaled down elements found in most typical mmos. Almost all of it is in need of a good deal of work.
I know what you are saying, and you have good arguments.
However, I am going to compare DC Universe with APB. Not in terms of success, but in terms of addictiveness. APB was an action MMO as well, thus lacking all those necessary MMORPG features. But, for me the game was SO much fun, something that most MMOs were/are lacking over the last 5/6 years. I know APB crashed, but that was mainly due to the company behind the game, not the concept itself.
True, DC needs to sort out a couple of things. But, I think that a lot of players aren't looking for those features you would require from a traditional MMO.
Again, I do agree with you as a MMORPG gamer. However, I think some diversity can't hurt. And as I really like action based MMOs as well, I don't really care for the 'missing' features, as that is not what I am looking for when playing one.
Edit: Forgot to say, this is just my opinion on these kind of games. I understand if some people are looking for more as we have to pay per month as well.
I hear what you are saying and I fall into that group as well. Didn't play APB, but I love Global Agenda. It too is trying to be an action based mmo of sorts. There are several games like this that cannot figure out if they want to be mmos or action online games.
DCU seems to fall right into that mix of trying to be an mmo and an action game, but falling far short of achieving either. The missing features from a typical mmo wouldn't be a big deal if there was enough of something else to take their place, but I honestly can't say that there is.
It actually achieves both quite well. Missing features is subjective. Character Creation is actually miles above many current MMOs, and has enough options if you count the visual progression.
The worlds are pretty big in comparison to some of the non superhero MMOs on the market, and bigger than both CoH and CoX with no invisible barriers in between city regions.
The combat achieves the action style combat very well, moves are precise and serve a purpose. Players can group up and battle in the open world with hundreds of players on the screen at a single time making it easily an MMO, and you take on a role as your character in the setting so its apparent this is a role playing game.
Most of the problems you've listed are cosmetic, and thats fine if some people think cosmetics make up a great game. Some games pay attention to the little things, and get them all right, like say - BioWare, and I'm sure SWTOR will reflect that in their intricate storylines and detailed environments.
But these are two different classes of MMORPG. DCUO IS more akin to an action based MMO like Phantasy Star Online, or Guild Wars (not really an action RPG but similar in scope).
SOE has its shortcomings with this title, but it isn't in the execution of the mechanics or world design. Much of it has to do with overall balancing and to a much lesser degree the superficial tidbits you get players whining about not having enough of. The same stuff they'll complain about when they get put into an item shop (like in CO).
That stuff can and will be added later, and that will bring players back who felt there weren't enough "choices" but the core players won't be the ones whining about choices, they'll be the ones that enjoy the system and the mechanics which will work adequately (and hopefully balanced) on launch day.
Just like ALL those others that rolled, re-rolled, and re-re-rolled on CoH for 6 months to a year before Villains launched. When you find a core audience that likes something, they'll stick around for it, in CO it might be the costume creator. In DCUO it will be the combat.
Who really cares if DCU character creation is more rubust than fantasy game X. It is a super hero based game and has a completely different set of expectations. It offers less options than the previous 2 games.
Who cares if the game world is bigger than game X, Y and Z (which games are those by the way?). That will not make the gameworld DCU has any bigger. The entire world can be crossed in a matter of a few minutes.
I just don't follow this whole "DCU is an action game" as a justification for the lack of things in the game. Soe is asking for the premium fee of a AAA mmo, so why the need to make excuses and deflect the issues?
Tell me what mmo in the last 10 years has released unfinished and lacking that was then able to "add it later" and brought back all the players that thought there wasn't enough at release.
You may not realize it, but you gave a very scary description about a game that is going live in 5 days. Hope it is balanced. Performs adequately. Stuff can be added later to bring players back. Some of that "stuff" will go straight to a cash shop. That doesn't sound like a very strong recommendation for a game that is releasing in 5 days. It sounds more like hope and faith.
You are under a misapprehension that each game has to build on something that a previous game did for it to be worth playing and thats why we end up with multiple games featuring the same things, done in the same way. People are asking for something different. Well heres something. I don't want combat that you click and wait, I want to be able to click, adapt and move in battle. I want to be able to dodge fireballs, and hide behind a car, and double jump over someones head and not have them auto face.
I don't want to sit there and craft useless junk for hours to increase my skills by 1 skill point, I can do that in any other MMORPG. I like the investigation system, the feat system, and the costume collection system. Its new, other games don't do that, and its an intelligent way to not only increase the games longevity but it will also increase your characters stats and visual progression. It isn't just a mindless badge of honor like in CoXs system.
I like that there is actual PvP which was planned from day 1, not tacked on as a side show. This is a major driving factor for playing the game to me. I like being on a PvP server, where my character can put up a fight against higher level opponents and still win. I like that it takes skill and alertness instead of countless mind-numbing hours of repetitive gameplay to make any kind of name for myself.
My recommendation is as I said in another thread, play the game while its still fun. The game is fun for me, and if they can meet their promises with their monthly updates, I forsee myself having a very long relationship with DCUO. I've played the game more then most people who've come to discredit the game, and I'll be the first to tell you every one of their flaws and in what order of importance those "flaws" will play in the longevity of the game, and I'm sorry to be a broken record, but cosmetics play a very low part.
The game isn't perfect, but even in the state I left it yesterday, its much better than many of the players criticisms on this site allows. I have no delusions on what this game is or what it can accomplish. Right now it would take more of a miracle to make this game not worth playing through the first month. So many professional criticisms have been positive over this game it would take quite a bit to change that in the next week. I may paint a picture of uncertainty with the way I phrase my views, but my criticism comes from real time-intensive testing of the game, not a 30 minute play through. I've earned the right not only to heavily criticize but also to happily inform that even with the problems it had, its still worth money.