Sadly enough, there is no cleanup of this mess.. I think it will only go downhill from here..
Yes there is.
Create a mmo but don't allow registration for the the lay people. Admit just a select few in betas. Go with the 'invite' model.
Someone Invites a person who fucks around, you (temporarily) remove some of their privileges, whatever they may be.
Someone invites a person who actually contributes to the game, hell, give this man a virtual medal!
I know its not a model you ever heard of in gaming, because in nowadays everyone tries to make a shitload of money and bugger off. But on the long run, you'll have the best community there is! And the haters? Screw them! Botters? Please... Spammers? Who?!
Excuse the language but Vyeth got me going.
</rant>
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Originally posted by zigmund People have been crying on these forums for a good game for 2 years now - we finally got one. Rift is super polished, rifts are fun, it's character skill customization is deep and varied. Dev's listen to the player base - implementing many idea's from beta, and customer service is incredible. I put in a ticket for a bugged quest at 10 pm on a Saturday night - and a GM was there to fix it within 10 minutes. I'm subbing.
The GM's/devs are usually more attentive during beta, once live hits I doubt the service will be anywhere near that good, its happened in almost every mmorpg.. except one. Fallen Earth, the GMs in FE and Devs actually come in game everyday to solve problems, and chat with the players, which is something you never see in a game like WoW or really any other mmorpg. I had trouble getting a mob to spawn for a quest once, gm ported to me spawned the mob, then wrote up a report to fix the quest, next day there was a hotfix patch for that quest and various other little bugs. GM interaction like this is mostly unheard of in mmorpg's.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
People have been crying on these forums for a good game for 2 years now - we finally got one.
Rift is super polished, rifts are fun, it's character skill customization is deep and varied.
Dev's listen to the player base - implementing many idea's from beta, and customer service is incredible.
I put in a ticket for a bugged quest at 10 pm on a Saturday night - and a GM was there to fix it within 10 minutes.
I'm subbing.
The GM's/devs are usually more attentive during beta, once live hits I doubt the service will be anywhere near that good, its happened in almost every mmorpg.. except one. Fallen Earth, the GMs in FE and Devs actually come in game everyday to solve problems, and chat with the players, which is something you never see in a game like WoW or really any other mmorpg. I had trouble getting a mob to spawn for a quest once, gm ported to me spawned the mob, then wrote up a report to fix the quest, next day there was a hotfix patch for that quest and various other little bugs. GM interaction like this is mostly unheard of in mmorpg's.
People have been crying on these forums for a good game for 2 years now - we finally got one.
Rift is super polished, rifts are fun, it's character skill customization is deep and varied.
Dev's listen to the player base - implementing many idea's from beta, and customer service is incredible.
I put in a ticket for a bugged quest at 10 pm on a Saturday night - and a GM was there to fix it within 10 minutes.
I'm subbing.
The GM's/devs are usually more attentive during beta, once live hits I doubt the service will be anywhere near that good, its happened in almost every mmorpg.. except one. Fallen Earth, the GMs in FE and Devs actually come in game everyday to solve problems, and chat with the players, which is something you never see in a game like WoW or really any other mmorpg. I had trouble getting a mob to spawn for a quest once, gm ported to me spawned the mob, then wrote up a report to fix the quest, next day there was a hotfix patch for that quest and various other little bugs. GM interaction like this is mostly unheard of in mmorpg's.
No offence. Except for Fallen Earth. I pretty much never seen any ingame support AT ALL in any MMO beta.
So yes, next to Fallen Earth, this is quite unique and a very good sign!
The sampling method in these rating scores is not scientific at all (e.g. only folks who take the time to rate the game voulantarily) and therefor not generalizable at all. Not to argue pro or con for the game rather just stating a fact. In these cases you are much more likely to get outliers, folks who etiher really like or hate the game than in an actual expieremental survey.
It would be nice to see Rift do well on the basis of the innovative features it brings us. However, I've been disappointed in Rift since I learned that it was in fact going to be a watered-down version of the innovative, dynamic world that the designers had originally planned (under its old name, Heroes of Telara).
This does not mean I think Rift will be a failure. On the contrary, it may still be a modest success, and still be modestly innovative, which will be good for Trion and good for the industry. After the last several major releases we've seen last year, we could use even a modest 'win'.
Yeah you also have to factor in all the haters that mark it a 1.0 just because they can.
Yep. but thats the thing. There are haters for every AAA title since WoW (meaning haters seem to be a new trend in the last 5 years). And even though the haters are doing what they do best, the score still seems to go up. That means there are a whole lot of people out there impressed with this title.
Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!!
So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre.
Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution.
Yeah you also have to factor in all the haters that mark it a 1.0 just because they can.
Yep. but thats the thing. There are haters for every AAA title since WoW (meaning haters seem to be a new trend in the last 5 years). And even though the haters are doing what they do best, the score still seems to go up. That means there are a whole lot of people out there impressed with this title.
Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!!
So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre.
Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution.
Im not arguing that. Nor did I try to say otherwise. Put it into context. I obviously am talking about MMO haters on the web. Does it make since that I would say "You know, haters in the music industry back in the 50's have shown us that this MMO game is going to be an epic fail."
I, obviously, am talking about the trend we have seen in the MMO world over the last 5 years.
Originally posted by MMOrUS Originally posted by Az2002ro
Originally posted by PanDaZmOO
Yeah you also have to factor in all the haters that mark it a 1.0 just because they can.
Yep. but thats the thing. There are haters for every AAA title since WoW (meaning haters seem to be a new trend in the last 5 years). And even though the haters are doing what they do best, the score still seems to go up. That means there are a whole lot of people out there impressed with this title. Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!! So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre. Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution. Actually I would argue it is even older than prostitution, but eh semantics. In any case the only people I can see hating this game are: 1) HARDCORE sandbox players, this game is not a sandbox title. 2) People who still prefer the older MUD, UO format of gaming to the EQ/WoW format of gaming. This game is definitely modeled after the more popular MMO archtypes. 3) Gaming cranks. Like any other community, gaming has it's share of cranks. These people like very little and constantly complain about anything that comes out. They are quite contrarian and will always hate on basically any game that comes out that doesn't fit their very narrow focus of what a game should be (often no other game even does the things they desire and their goals are unrealistic).
I will note the gaming crank and cranks in general are an important part of a community. Even though many are annoyed by them they still have good ideas and I believe things improve faster because of cranks.
The majority of people that I see hating on the game are usually in these categories. The rest are usually people who have not played the game but claim they have. You can usually tell these folks right away because they will make some ridiculous claim after they talk about their "game experience" long enough.
The game is a solid mainstream MMO and it is probably one of the better ones I have played. This will not kill WoW but it might tip Aion into F2P mode.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
Yeah you also have to factor in all the haters that mark it a 1.0 just because they can.
Yep. but thats the thing. There are haters for every AAA title since WoW (meaning haters seem to be a new trend in the last 5 years). And even though the haters are doing what they do best, the score still seems to go up. That means there are a whole lot of people out there impressed with this title.
Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!!
So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre.
Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution.
Im not arguing that. Nor did I try to say otherwise. Put it into context. I obviously am talking about MMO haters on the web. Does it make since that I would say "You know, haters in the music industry back in the 50's have shown us that this MMO game is going to be an epic fail."
I, obviously, am talking about the trend we have seen in the MMO world over the last 5 years.
Wait, i thought you were talking about the beginning of time when the hate emotion was established?
Or theatres? Or prostitution?
Or something..
Oh yeah right, thanks for bringing the topic of discussion back to discussion..
This game is very similar to WAR so I expect it to perform quite similar. Sell maybe a million boxes but then, after 6 months, dwindle down to less than 200k subs and dropping.
I may be wrong but I think that is what MMORPG producers expect these game to perform in the future. A pretty good box sales and then to get a decent amount of sub revenue for a few months and then just a small income for a year or so until it then goes F2P.
MMORPGs are simply not the games they used to be. Today they are more like single player games with an added bonus, for the devs, in the form of a sub fee and/or cash shop, to make more money.
This sounds about right... though I would say 500,000-750,000 boxes, down to about 200,000 users by the start of month 4. it will drop fast from there though. All imo ofc.
Come on, people, what kind of reasons do you all have to say that? 200k users is what latest Final Fantasy installment has now, do you really believe that a game so solid as RIFT could *suddenly* turn out to be hated by everyone? Oh wait, probably you haven't played it and are judging by how well Star Trek Online and FF did in the first place?
Well, this might be a surprise, but no one is expecting to put tens of millions of $ and several years of production into a game just that it would fail and shut down after several months (except for Aeria Games or some other Korean guys). AAA projects aren't made that way.
They're made so their investors would not only get their money back, but also make a fortune off the project. And the initial launch doesn't always produces that amount of money, because building games aren't cheap these days. TRION will need at least two data centers for USA and Europe, and that alone costs a fortune even to rent (building a small data center on 30 "boxes", i believe, is close to $ 1 million now).
And from what i've seen in betas, what testers are saying is really heard and fixed by the devs, they're building a strong fan base off the betas now and obviously are not aiming to sink the ship after half a year after the release date, or they wouldn't care about our opinion at all. Like Square Enix they, they did not gave a damn about anyones opinion, and now FF is dead right after the release.
Apparently it is a very polished game already at this time. This means that there are no crucial game-breakers like a terrible amount of bugs, lag or other immediately surfacing issues driving people off. That could very well mean that the score will be fairly constant for a long time.
The question is though, how will it fare when it enters the 'launched games' list for a month or two? Will the game be fun in the long run or suffer from any of the afflictions that a lot of mmorpgs ended up having? Lack of end game pve content, repetitive pvp content, a bland world, lack of alternative gameplay options, a lack of long term incentives, just to name a few. At this time it is very hard to answer that question but you can bet your horse that the score will drop drastically after honeymoon is over and Rift turns out not having what it takes to keep people in for the long haul.
Originally posted by DarkPony Apparently it is a very polished game already at this time. This means that there are no crucial game-breakers like a terrible amount of bugs, lag or other immediately surfacing issues driving people off. That could very well mean that the score will be fairly constant for a long time. The question is though, how will it fare when it enters the 'launched games' list for a month or two? Will the game be fun in the long run or suffer from any of the afflictions that a lot of mmorpgs ended up having? Lack of end game pve content, repetitive pvp content, a bland world, lack of alternative gameplay options, a lack of long term incentives, just to name a few. At this time it is very hard to answer that question but you can bet your horse that the score will drop drastically after honeymoon is over and Rift turns out not having what it takes to keep people in for the long haul. It is much too early to tell.
Yup we still have to see what end game is like. I would say a couple of months to level up is going to be right. Most people will still be leveling, but the power gamers will have made it to max level. We have no idea what end game content is going to be like. We can all recall AoC, where the starter city was amazing and had this cool story line where you're getting your independence back, and then there was after level 20...
However, there are some interesting ideas here and the potential looks good. If they have a year's worth of post release content, then you may see some new stuff released after two or three months, but I have not seen an MMO where the power gamers do not get bored and cry for something to do. So for judging an MMO overall it is poor criteria. The power gamers always run out of stuff to do. If everyone runs out of stuff to do then there will be a problem. So far it looks like they have organized their stuff well and I am guessing that new content will be right on target.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
The third month post launch is the best predictor for me of the type of success an MMO will have. If it retains its population and builds on it, it will do well. Player retention has been the most difficult thing in this genre. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of craptastic games. I think another part is how spoiled gamers are. Yes we are spoiled. Basically I pay a month subscription and expect to be entertained 100% of the time. No MMO will be able to do that. The player needs to take the initiative also.
It's like some people log on and shout "ENTERTAIN ME!" and if the Devs don't jump to attention, they move on.
The third month post launch is the best predictor for me of the type of success an MMO will have. If it retains its population and builds on it, it will do well. Player retention has been the most difficult thing in this genre. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of craptastic games. I think another part is how spoiled gamers are. Yes we are spoiled. Basically I pay a month subscription and expect to be entertained 100% of the time. No MMO will be able to do that. The player needs to take the initiative also.
It's like some people log on and shout "ENTERTAIN ME!" and if the Devs don't jump to attention, they move on.
Then let them move on... entertainment stops being entertainment if you dont have to work just some for it... imho.
Otherwise you just end up being yet a nother movie without any enteraction. It ends being a game.
puzzles doesnt make any sence either if you allways new the answer... what makes them so entertaining is the work to get there and the joy when you solve it.
Apparently it is a very polished game already at this time. This means that there are no crucial game-breakers like a terrible amount of bugs, lag or other immediately surfacing issues driving people off. That could very well mean that the score will be fairly constant for a long time.
The question is though, how will it fare when it enters the 'launched games' list for a month or two? Will the game be fun in the long run or suffer from any of the afflictions that a lot of mmorpgs ended up having? Lack of end game pve content, repetitive pvp content, a bland world, lack of alternative gameplay options, a lack of long term incentives, just to name a few. At this time it is very hard to answer that question but you can bet your horse that the score will drop drastically after honeymoon is over and Rift turns out not having what it takes to keep people in for the long haul.
It is much too early to tell.
Yup we still have to see what end game is like. I would say a couple of months to level up is going to be right. Most people will still be leveling, but the power gamers will have made it to max level. We have no idea what end game content is going to be like. We can all recall AoC, where the starter city was amazing and had this cool story line where you're getting your independence back, and then there was after level 20...
However, there are some interesting ideas here and the potential looks good. If they have a year's worth of post release content, then you may see some new stuff released after two or three months, but I have not seen an MMO where the power gamers do not get bored and cry for something to do. So for judging an MMO overall it is poor criteria. The power gamers always run out of stuff to do. If everyone runs out of stuff to do then there will be a problem. So far it looks like they have organized their stuff well and I am guessing that new content will be right on target.
Okay just taking this out of context so... bare over with me.
If the power gamers is so darn fast running for the ledge then let them jumpe the plank.... okay a bit harsh but still... if they have it like they need to run to the ledge all the time they forget what the game actually is about.... its the journey to get there, and not just the end prize that counts. That said though... they could maybe take some idea's... and this is totally my opinion here and nothing els, but as a little mind trick game, they might take some idea's from the now very old game, Never winter nights, where the lvl cap might be there, and might be anoying.... where you could make it a bit interesting as well for the player to go all through lvling again... could be to make a reroll with your char with a stat boost maybe for every time you reroll... making your end reroll just a tad stronger and better this time... then you could add some places you first can visit after say... 3 rerolls ?? and make the place a real nutbuster to challenge you... and maybe after this... something totally new... but i guess you by now got some of the thoughts behind it.
Well maybe just a nother rant, but to me at least it makes sence :P
The third month post launch is the best predictor for me of the type of success an MMO will have. If it retains its population and builds on it, it will do well. Player retention has been the most difficult thing in this genre. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of craptastic games. I think another part is how spoiled gamers are. Yes we are spoiled. Basically I pay a month subscription and expect to be entertained 100% of the time. No MMO will be able to do that. The player needs to take the initiative also.
It's like some people log on and shout "ENTERTAIN ME!" and if the Devs don't jump to attention, they move on.
Then let them move on... entertainment stops being entertainment if you dont have to work just some for it... imho.
Otherwise you just end up being yet a nother movie without any enteraction. It ends being a game.
puzzles doesnt make any sence either if you allways new the answer... what makes them so entertaining is the work to get there and the joy when you solve it.
Just my thoughts on that.
This is true, but MMOs need people to be successful. I think the worse thing that has happened is the 'group think' mentality that has cropped up from the community. I find that a lot of the community just doesn't like each other. This might have something to do with outside global political issues in general. The fact that every country for the most part is having economical issues. Who knows, but almost everyone comes into a game that someone else likes with a chip on their shoulder. Demanding and picky is what I find prevalent. It's not enough to not like a game. People are motivated to talk trash about another game, actually hope for its demise. I point to this thread and others in the forum as proof of that. Considering this is a forum for Rift and not another game...that's kinda weird isn't it? I mean I understand why if you're in SWTOR people would trash other games, but to come to this forum for the sole purpose of hating on a game. What's the point in that? Simple "ENTERTAIN ME!" mentality is everywhere and sadly it's more common than either of us would like.
Apparently it is a very polished game already at this time. This means that there are no crucial game-breakers like a terrible amount of bugs, lag or other immediately surfacing issues driving people off. That could very well mean that the score will be fairly constant for a long time.
The question is though, how will it fare when it enters the 'launched games' list for a month or two? Will the game be fun in the long run or suffer from any of the afflictions that a lot of mmorpgs ended up having? Lack of end game pve content, repetitive pvp content, a bland world, lack of alternative gameplay options, a lack of long term incentives, just to name a few. At this time it is very hard to answer that question but you can bet your horse that the score will drop drastically after honeymoon is over and Rift turns out not having what it takes to keep people in for the long haul.
It is much too early to tell.
Yup we still have to see what end game is like. I would say a couple of months to level up is going to be right. Most people will still be leveling, but the power gamers will have made it to max level. We have no idea what end game content is going to be like. We can all recall AoC, where the starter city was amazing and had this cool story line where you're getting your independence back, and then there was after level 20...
However, there are some interesting ideas here and the potential looks good. If they have a year's worth of post release content, then you may see some new stuff released after two or three months, but I have not seen an MMO where the power gamers do not get bored and cry for something to do. So for judging an MMO overall it is poor criteria. The power gamers always run out of stuff to do. If everyone runs out of stuff to do then there will be a problem. So far it looks like they have organized their stuff well and I am guessing that new content will be right on target.
Okay just taking this out of context so... bare over with me.
If the power gamers is so darn fast running for the ledge then let them jumpe the plank.... okay a bit harsh but still... if they have it like they need to run to the ledge all the time they forget what the game actually is about.... its the journey to get there, and not just the end prize that counts. That said though... they could maybe take some idea's... and this is totally my opinion here and nothing els, but as a little mind trick game, they might take some idea's from the now very old game, Never winter nights, where the lvl cap might be there, and might be anoying.... where you could make it a bit interesting as well for the player to go all through lvling again... could be to make a reroll with your char with a stat boost maybe for every time you reroll... making your end reroll just a tad stronger and better this time... then you could add some places you first can visit after say... 3 rerolls ?? and make the place a real nutbuster to challenge you... and maybe after this... something totally new... but i guess you by now got some of the thoughts behind it.
Well maybe just a nother rant, but to me at least it makes sence :P
I subbed to WoW last month for the first time in over 4 years to check out Cata changes...only had the base game mind you so I'm not going to comment on my experiences in that. When I unsubbed the answer I chose was the game was too easy and seemed kiddy to me. Its response was basically, Blizzard's stance is that WoW is all about End Game and the rest is just going through the motions. I'm serious, that's what it basically said. I was stunned that they were so honest about it.
You may be right, as WAR had the whole Warhammer IP to hype on. So initial box sales for Rift will probably be lower.
The retention will probably be much the same though.
Unless they produce some fantastic end game to keep people playing. But I havent heard anything yet so...
Maybe because no one has seen the end game yet, lol? Bueller?
One thing that WAR had that this doesn't (first hand experience) is FAR less bugs. The bugs in this game are so few, you feel good when you actually FIND one to send to the devs.
This game has far more content that's ready to go right now, so you're not going to see the kind of drop off that fast that you saw with WAR.
People left WAR because it was B A D. It didn't work right. This is not an issue here. There are some who love the game, but even those who don't but tried it said "It's a pretty good game, but not my style."
The only other thing is if people like the gameplay and mechanics and so far, that seems to be quite a resounding "yes" with most (not all) who've tried it, not those who've been speculating and waiting.
Okay just taking this out of context so... bare over with me.
If the power gamers is so darn fast running for the ledge then let them jumpe the plank.... okay a bit harsh but still... if they have it like they need to run to the ledge all the time they forget what the game actually is about.... its the journey to get there, and not just the end prize that counts. That said though... they could maybe take some idea's... and this is totally my opinion here and nothing els, but as a little mind trick game, they might take some idea's from the now very old game, Never winter nights, where the lvl cap might be there, and might be anoying.... where you could make it a bit interesting as well for the player to go all through lvling again... could be to make a reroll with your char with a stat boost maybe for every time you reroll... making your end reroll just a tad stronger and better this time... then you could add some places you first can visit after say... 3 rerolls ?? and make the place a real nutbuster to challenge you... and maybe after this... something totally new... but i guess you by now got some of the thoughts behind it.
Well maybe just a nother rant, but to me at least it makes sence :P
I see what you mean but endgame content is very, very important and often those power gamers just want to get there as soon as possible and I can't really blame them.
Rpg's are always progression based games: a large chunk of the fun comes from 'improving' yourself. It is only natural that a lot people want that rush of improvement as fast as possible. Also most mmorpg's always have carrots on a stick, urging you to level up to unlock that new skill or being able to buy/equip that shiney sword.
Besides, in a new game with fresh reputations / territories / and fame to claim, people are trying to get to 'the endgame' as soon as possible and are used to rush past the 'filler content' which only serves them to gain xp. At least that is how it is experienced in many bad games. As the endgame is where it supposedly is at: the stuff you'll be doing from reaching max level to sub-cancelation and most people hope that this period will be much longer than the period of leveling their character up.
So there will always be power levelers and the semi-hardcore players who play to progress at least 3 hours a day; the game urges them to. MMORPG developers know this very well and in my opinion it is their obligation to make sure that players don't run out of content and interesting and varied long term goals at the end of the leveling curve.
Okay just taking this out of context so... bare over with me.
If the power gamers is so darn fast running for the ledge then let them jumpe the plank.... okay a bit harsh but still... if they have it like they need to run to the ledge all the time they forget what the game actually is about.... its the journey to get there, and not just the end prize that counts. That said though... they could maybe take some idea's... and this is totally my opinion here and nothing els, but as a little mind trick game, they might take some idea's from the now very old game, Never winter nights, where the lvl cap might be there, and might be anoying.... where you could make it a bit interesting as well for the player to go all through lvling again... could be to make a reroll with your char with a stat boost maybe for every time you reroll... making your end reroll just a tad stronger and better this time... then you could add some places you first can visit after say... 3 rerolls ?? and make the place a real nutbuster to challenge you... and maybe after this... something totally new... but i guess you by now got some of the thoughts behind it.
Well maybe just a nother rant, but to me at least it makes sence :P
I see what you mean but endgame content is very, very important and often those power gamers just want to get there as soon as possible and I can't really blame them.
Rpg's are always progression based games: a large chunk of the fun comes from 'improving' yourself. It is only natural that a lot people want that rush of improvement as fast as possible. Also most mmorpg's always have carrots on a stick, urging you to level up to unlock that new skill or being able to buy/equip that shiney sword.
Besides, in a new game with fresh reputations / territories / and fame to claim, people are trying to get to 'the endgame' as soon as possible and are used to rush past the 'filler content' which only serves them to gain xp. At least that is how it is experienced in many bad games. As the endgame is where it supposedly is at: the stuff you'll be doing from reaching max level to sub-cancelation and most people hope that this period will be much longer than the period of leveling their character up.
So there will always be power levelers and the semi-hardcore players who play to progress at least 3 hours a day; the game urges them to. MMORPG developers know this very well and in my opinion it is their obligation to make sure that players don't run out of content and interesting and varied long term goals at the end of the leveling curve.
If they want to keep those subs, that is.
Oh i totally agree on that, but why does it allways have to be at end game it gets fun... in my opinion at least, it actually gets more fun if you prospone that "end of line" place... the last lvl. Problem is you can try and find that one little thing that makes a difference at end game all the time, but at the end it will just catch a small amount of ppl and not really... if you want to keep the masses, the broad majority.
Its hard to invent the new hype all the time, if in reality the power gamers at least, really just wants that extra hype - feeling of achievement. It gets like a drug sometimes as well.. to be the one to catch that end first.... and a lot goes to a great lot extend to get there... I'm not saying invent the next hyper weapon.... making them more and more futuristic or massive... i say invent other pathes to go, it will catch a lot more ppl than just a new x-tra gun/weapon what ever. Even the power gamers actually finds it refreshing with some new content to go through or the humor of a chicken run through the heavy guards of a town... again just idea's...
It's not to say your not right or anything... your are actually stating just the fact what we all know... sooner or later.
I found at least the idea of repeating it all again to achieve even greater abilities pretty nice in the fact that you get to redo all once again, but with that tad extra power as goal at the end... this way you can actually perfect your lvling curve a bit better this time than last time.... but at least just once... doing more times will make it trivial and kill the fun of it.
...but this is just one idea... there is a lot of others i'm sure that could be implemented in the world of MMO's as well... as it is right now i think... by just pushing the lvl cap all the time you actually just make the learning curve of the game further and further and not really making any progress in making it fun, witch in fact mostly is the final goal of it. ( yeah yeah some would say, make money witch might be the fact for the team behind it but surely not for the gamer )
The third month post launch is the best predictor for me of the type of success an MMO will have. If it retains its population and builds on it, it will do well. Player retention has been the most difficult thing in this genre. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of craptastic games. I think another part is how spoiled gamers are. Yes we are spoiled. Basically I pay a month subscription and expect to be entertained 100% of the time. No MMO will be able to do that. The player needs to take the initiative also.
It's like some people log on and shout "ENTERTAIN ME!" and if the Devs don't jump to attention, they move on.
Then let them move on... entertainment stops being entertainment if you dont have to work just some for it... imho.
Otherwise you just end up being yet a nother movie without any enteraction. It ends being a game.
puzzles doesnt make any sence either if you allways new the answer... what makes them so entertaining is the work to get there and the joy when you solve it.
Just my thoughts on that.
This is true, but MMOs need people to be successful. I think the worse thing that has happened is the 'group think' mentality that has cropped up from the community. I find that a lot of the community just doesn't like each other. This might have something to do with outside global political issues in general. The fact that every country for the most part is having economical issues. Who knows, but almost everyone comes into a game that someone else likes with a chip on their shoulder. Demanding and picky is what I find prevalent. It's not enough to not like a game. People are motivated to talk trash about another game, actually hope for its demise. I point to this thread and others in the forum as proof of that. Considering this is a forum for Rift and not another game...that's kinda weird isn't it? I mean I understand why if you're in SWTOR people would trash other games, but to come to this forum for the sole purpose of hating on a game. What's the point in that? Simple "ENTERTAIN ME!" mentality is everywhere and sadly it's more common than either of us would like.
well haters seems to be un avoidable this days... but to be honest i actually mostly think they are there cause they are frustraited of... yet a nother hyped game that not quite made it up for their expectations... for one thing... might be a ton of other rasons as well... i'm not sure... like you i dont really get why someone really makes thouse high flames about it... in the end the game stays like it is anyway... what ever the flame or the haters.
The "ENTERTAIN ME" crowd i don't understand either.... games it ment to be like a puzzle or something to activly interact with you, make your mind occupied on something. Wether its with taking your brains on a safari, let it dvindle down the road of exitement of the next big thing that makes you epic or some total different its still a game .... an active entertaining mashine. If its not catching you... you might have run to the wrong place...
I think this game will be a moderate success, and that's a good thing after the great 2010 MMO debacle. I think there was a derp-virus that only infected game developers in 2010.
Comments
Yes there is.
Create a mmo but don't allow registration for the the lay people. Admit just a select few in betas. Go with the 'invite' model.
Someone Invites a person who fucks around, you (temporarily) remove some of their privileges, whatever they may be.
Someone invites a person who actually contributes to the game, hell, give this man a virtual medal!
I know its not a model you ever heard of in gaming, because in nowadays everyone tries to make a shitload of money and bugger off. But on the long run, you'll have the best community there is! And the haters? Screw them! Botters? Please... Spammers? Who?!
Excuse the language but Vyeth got me going.
</rant>
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
People have been crying on these forums for a good game for 2 years now - we finally got one.
Rift is super polished, rifts are fun, it's character skill customization is deep and varied.
Dev's listen to the player base - implementing many idea's from beta, and customer service is incredible.
I put in a ticket for a bugged quest at 10 pm on a Saturday night - and a GM was there to fix it within 10 minutes.
I'm subbing.
The GM's/devs are usually more attentive during beta, once live hits I doubt the service will be anywhere near that good, its happened in almost every mmorpg.. except one. Fallen Earth, the GMs in FE and Devs actually come in game everyday to solve problems, and chat with the players, which is something you never see in a game like WoW or really any other mmorpg. I had trouble getting a mob to spawn for a quest once, gm ported to me spawned the mob, then wrote up a report to fix the quest, next day there was a hotfix patch for that quest and various other little bugs. GM interaction like this is mostly unheard of in mmorpg's.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
So its possible.
No offence. Except for Fallen Earth. I pretty much never seen any ingame support AT ALL in any MMO beta.
So yes, next to Fallen Earth, this is quite unique and a very good sign!
The sampling method in these rating scores is not scientific at all (e.g. only folks who take the time to rate the game voulantarily) and therefor not generalizable at all. Not to argue pro or con for the game rather just stating a fact. In these cases you are much more likely to get outliers, folks who etiher really like or hate the game than in an actual expieremental survey.
It would be nice to see Rift do well on the basis of the innovative features it brings us. However, I've been disappointed in Rift since I learned that it was in fact going to be a watered-down version of the innovative, dynamic world that the designers had originally planned (under its old name, Heroes of Telara).
This does not mean I think Rift will be a failure. On the contrary, it may still be a modest success, and still be modestly innovative, which will be good for Trion and good for the industry. After the last several major releases we've seen last year, we could use even a modest 'win'.
Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!!
So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre.
Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution.
Same here. I have tried a lot of duds and Rift is not a dud. I think this will have a solid sub base.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
Im not arguing that. Nor did I try to say otherwise. Put it into context. I obviously am talking about MMO haters on the web. Does it make since that I would say "You know, haters in the music industry back in the 50's have shown us that this MMO game is going to be an epic fail."
I, obviously, am talking about the trend we have seen in the MMO world over the last 5 years.
Haters a new trend that has only been around these past 5 years!!
So long as there has been any form of entertainment there have been ppl who have been opposed to 1 type of entertainment over another, even so far as to burn down a theatre to ensure that a production of King Lear didn't get an audience and bankcrupted the producers, and ensured that the expectant crowd went to see the "Other" King Lear production at a rival theatre.
Hating has always and will always be here, it's nearly as old as prostitution.
Actually I would argue it is even older than prostitution, but eh semantics. In any case the only people I can see hating this game are:
1) HARDCORE sandbox players, this game is not a sandbox title.
2) People who still prefer the older MUD, UO format of gaming to the EQ/WoW format of gaming. This game is definitely modeled after the more popular MMO archtypes.
3) Gaming cranks. Like any other community, gaming has it's share of cranks. These people like very little and constantly complain about anything that comes out. They are quite contrarian and will always hate on basically any game that comes out that doesn't fit their very narrow focus of what a game should be (often no other game even does the things they desire and their goals are unrealistic).
I will note the gaming crank and cranks in general are an important part of a community. Even though many are annoyed by them they still have good ideas and I believe things improve faster because of cranks.
The majority of people that I see hating on the game are usually in these categories. The rest are usually people who have not played the game but claim they have. You can usually tell these folks right away because they will make some ridiculous claim after they talk about their "game experience" long enough.
The game is a solid mainstream MMO and it is probably one of the better ones I have played. This will not kill WoW but it might tip Aion into F2P mode.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
Wait, i thought you were talking about the beginning of time when the hate emotion was established?
Or theatres? Or prostitution?
Or something..
Oh yeah right, thanks for bringing the topic of discussion back to discussion..
Come on, people, what kind of reasons do you all have to say that? 200k users is what latest Final Fantasy installment has now, do you really believe that a game so solid as RIFT could *suddenly* turn out to be hated by everyone? Oh wait, probably you haven't played it and are judging by how well Star Trek Online and FF did in the first place?
Well, this might be a surprise, but no one is expecting to put tens of millions of $ and several years of production into a game just that it would fail and shut down after several months (except for Aeria Games or some other Korean guys). AAA projects aren't made that way.
They're made so their investors would not only get their money back, but also make a fortune off the project. And the initial launch doesn't always produces that amount of money, because building games aren't cheap these days. TRION will need at least two data centers for USA and Europe, and that alone costs a fortune even to rent (building a small data center on 30 "boxes", i believe, is close to $ 1 million now).
And from what i've seen in betas, what testers are saying is really heard and fixed by the devs, they're building a strong fan base off the betas now and obviously are not aiming to sink the ship after half a year after the release date, or they wouldn't care about our opinion at all. Like Square Enix they, they did not gave a damn about anyones opinion, and now FF is dead right after the release.
Online Games in Girl's Eyes
http://chickgeekgames.blogspot.com
Apparently it is a very polished game already at this time. This means that there are no crucial game-breakers like a terrible amount of bugs, lag or other immediately surfacing issues driving people off. That could very well mean that the score will be fairly constant for a long time.
The question is though, how will it fare when it enters the 'launched games' list for a month or two? Will the game be fun in the long run or suffer from any of the afflictions that a lot of mmorpgs ended up having? Lack of end game pve content, repetitive pvp content, a bland world, lack of alternative gameplay options, a lack of long term incentives, just to name a few. At this time it is very hard to answer that question but you can bet your horse that the score will drop drastically after honeymoon is over and Rift turns out not having what it takes to keep people in for the long haul.
It is much too early to tell.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Yup we still have to see what end game is like. I would say a couple of months to level up is going to be right. Most people will still be leveling, but the power gamers will have made it to max level. We have no idea what end game content is going to be like. We can all recall AoC, where the starter city was amazing and had this cool story line where you're getting your independence back, and then there was after level 20...
However, there are some interesting ideas here and the potential looks good. If they have a year's worth of post release content, then you may see some new stuff released after two or three months, but I have not seen an MMO where the power gamers do not get bored and cry for something to do. So for judging an MMO overall it is poor criteria. The power gamers always run out of stuff to do. If everyone runs out of stuff to do then there will be a problem. So far it looks like they have organized their stuff well and I am guessing that new content will be right on target.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
The third month post launch is the best predictor for me of the type of success an MMO will have. If it retains its population and builds on it, it will do well. Player retention has been the most difficult thing in this genre. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of craptastic games. I think another part is how spoiled gamers are. Yes we are spoiled. Basically I pay a month subscription and expect to be entertained 100% of the time. No MMO will be able to do that. The player needs to take the initiative also.
It's like some people log on and shout "ENTERTAIN ME!" and if the Devs don't jump to attention, they move on.
Then let them move on... entertainment stops being entertainment if you dont have to work just some for it... imho.
Otherwise you just end up being yet a nother movie without any enteraction. It ends being a game.
puzzles doesnt make any sence either if you allways new the answer... what makes them so entertaining is the work to get there and the joy when you solve it.
Just my thoughts on that.
Dark_Elf
Okay just taking this out of context so... bare over with me.
If the power gamers is so darn fast running for the ledge then let them jumpe the plank.... okay a bit harsh but still... if they have it like they need to run to the ledge all the time they forget what the game actually is about.... its the journey to get there, and not just the end prize that counts. That said though... they could maybe take some idea's... and this is totally my opinion here and nothing els, but as a little mind trick game, they might take some idea's from the now very old game, Never winter nights, where the lvl cap might be there, and might be anoying.... where you could make it a bit interesting as well for the player to go all through lvling again... could be to make a reroll with your char with a stat boost maybe for every time you reroll... making your end reroll just a tad stronger and better this time... then you could add some places you first can visit after say... 3 rerolls ?? and make the place a real nutbuster to challenge you... and maybe after this... something totally new... but i guess you by now got some of the thoughts behind it.
Well maybe just a nother rant, but to me at least it makes sence :P
Dark_Elf
This is true, but MMOs need people to be successful. I think the worse thing that has happened is the 'group think' mentality that has cropped up from the community. I find that a lot of the community just doesn't like each other. This might have something to do with outside global political issues in general. The fact that every country for the most part is having economical issues. Who knows, but almost everyone comes into a game that someone else likes with a chip on their shoulder. Demanding and picky is what I find prevalent. It's not enough to not like a game. People are motivated to talk trash about another game, actually hope for its demise. I point to this thread and others in the forum as proof of that. Considering this is a forum for Rift and not another game...that's kinda weird isn't it? I mean I understand why if you're in SWTOR people would trash other games, but to come to this forum for the sole purpose of hating on a game. What's the point in that? Simple "ENTERTAIN ME!" mentality is everywhere and sadly it's more common than either of us would like.
I subbed to WoW last month for the first time in over 4 years to check out Cata changes...only had the base game mind you so I'm not going to comment on my experiences in that. When I unsubbed the answer I chose was the game was too easy and seemed kiddy to me. Its response was basically, Blizzard's stance is that WoW is all about End Game and the rest is just going through the motions. I'm serious, that's what it basically said. I was stunned that they were so honest about it.
One thing that WAR had that this doesn't (first hand experience) is FAR less bugs. The bugs in this game are so few, you feel good when you actually FIND one to send to the devs.
This game has far more content that's ready to go right now, so you're not going to see the kind of drop off that fast that you saw with WAR.
People left WAR because it was B A D. It didn't work right. This is not an issue here. There are some who love the game, but even those who don't but tried it said "It's a pretty good game, but not my style."
The only other thing is if people like the gameplay and mechanics and so far, that seems to be quite a resounding "yes" with most (not all) who've tried it, not those who've been speculating and waiting.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I see what you mean but endgame content is very, very important and often those power gamers just want to get there as soon as possible and I can't really blame them.
Rpg's are always progression based games: a large chunk of the fun comes from 'improving' yourself. It is only natural that a lot people want that rush of improvement as fast as possible. Also most mmorpg's always have carrots on a stick, urging you to level up to unlock that new skill or being able to buy/equip that shiney sword.
Besides, in a new game with fresh reputations / territories / and fame to claim, people are trying to get to 'the endgame' as soon as possible and are used to rush past the 'filler content' which only serves them to gain xp. At least that is how it is experienced in many bad games. As the endgame is where it supposedly is at: the stuff you'll be doing from reaching max level to sub-cancelation and most people hope that this period will be much longer than the period of leveling their character up.
So there will always be power levelers and the semi-hardcore players who play to progress at least 3 hours a day; the game urges them to. MMORPG developers know this very well and in my opinion it is their obligation to make sure that players don't run out of content and interesting and varied long term goals at the end of the leveling curve.
If they want to keep those subs, that is.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Oh i totally agree on that, but why does it allways have to be at end game it gets fun... in my opinion at least, it actually gets more fun if you prospone that "end of line" place... the last lvl. Problem is you can try and find that one little thing that makes a difference at end game all the time, but at the end it will just catch a small amount of ppl and not really... if you want to keep the masses, the broad majority.
Its hard to invent the new hype all the time, if in reality the power gamers at least, really just wants that extra hype - feeling of achievement. It gets like a drug sometimes as well.. to be the one to catch that end first.... and a lot goes to a great lot extend to get there... I'm not saying invent the next hyper weapon.... making them more and more futuristic or massive... i say invent other pathes to go, it will catch a lot more ppl than just a new x-tra gun/weapon what ever. Even the power gamers actually finds it refreshing with some new content to go through or the humor of a chicken run through the heavy guards of a town... again just idea's...
It's not to say your not right or anything... your are actually stating just the fact what we all know... sooner or later.
I found at least the idea of repeating it all again to achieve even greater abilities pretty nice in the fact that you get to redo all once again, but with that tad extra power as goal at the end... this way you can actually perfect your lvling curve a bit better this time than last time.... but at least just once... doing more times will make it trivial and kill the fun of it.
...but this is just one idea... there is a lot of others i'm sure that could be implemented in the world of MMO's as well... as it is right now i think... by just pushing the lvl cap all the time you actually just make the learning curve of the game further and further and not really making any progress in making it fun, witch in fact mostly is the final goal of it. ( yeah yeah some would say, make money witch might be the fact for the team behind it but surely not for the gamer )
Dark_Elf
well haters seems to be un avoidable this days... but to be honest i actually mostly think they are there cause they are frustraited of... yet a nother hyped game that not quite made it up for their expectations... for one thing... might be a ton of other rasons as well... i'm not sure... like you i dont really get why someone really makes thouse high flames about it... in the end the game stays like it is anyway... what ever the flame or the haters.
The "ENTERTAIN ME" crowd i don't understand either.... games it ment to be like a puzzle or something to activly interact with you, make your mind occupied on something. Wether its with taking your brains on a safari, let it dvindle down the road of exitement of the next big thing that makes you epic or some total different its still a game .... an active entertaining mashine. If its not catching you... you might have run to the wrong place...
well again just mho
Dark_Elf
I think this game will be a moderate success, and that's a good thing after the great 2010 MMO debacle. I think there was a derp-virus that only infected game developers in 2010.