So they make "Phasing" in WoW. Which copies what has been done before and JUST SO HAPPENS to coincide with rifts.....but this isn't trolled or flamed...cause it's WOW doin it
mark me not surprised....
Are you implying that Blizzard copied Rifts in that area?
If you're not... then nevermind .
If so, you're sorely misinformed, and allow me to correct you.
1. Phasing was introduced in WoW's last expansion, WoTLK which came out a little over 2 years ago. They've expanded/improved on it in Cata.
2. Blizzard didn't just decide "Hey, there's this game called Rifts in development that is supposed to have some dynamic events.. We need to copy them quick!" and then design, develop, implement, test and release Phasing into WoW in a couple weeks. Hell.. was Rifts even announced when Lich King came out?
Ummm....even before that, try looking into Kithicor Forest in EQ 1. The Dark elves invaded with a bunch of undeads I think the leader was Lanys Tvyl or whatever. Now during the night undeads wander around the forest. Then check out Firiona Vie, another big invasion, the good side lost and ran into the forest to make a new outpost. Since then the evil races now occupy the encampment. So if you guys are really going to be calling companies copycats, you just have to look at a much more wider range of games other than WoW and the new upcoming ones. These were FYI live events set up by the GMs, not by some junk quest starting forced event.
Edit: I forgot to add, Phasing is not a new feature. Its been so long that any game out there hasnt done it in a while, and somehow WoW implements it in their expansion and people are calling it a new feature? Maybe some of you guys haven't played EQ1 in its early days, but still its nothing new.
"Phasing" is a very poor design for an MMO; okay for a single player game, though.
You ask if it is "laziness" that other game companies have not used phasing, and I would say that it is laziness to incorporate phasing into an MMO design, since phasing is really a shortcut or substitute to having real world change that all can see and share (provided they are in the geographic vicinity).
We will likely not see "phasing" used much in future MMO's; I feel like WOW is losing a lot of veteran players because of phasing. Heck, half my guild quit playing and dropped WOW shortly after the release of Cata.
Why would you need phasing in a single player game? :-)
Without phasing, how would you re-create a story such as Gilneas' quest line? I don't see many solutions. Maybe with a timed event? Though it doesn't work well in the long run. Wrathgate is a timed event, and except during WotLK's launch, I always end up taking Undercity back alone. That would also suggest that you can only start an event every x minutes. Then you have to deal with AFK or very clueless players... Sure you can add some dynamic events, though it doesn't always fit well with the kind of story you are trying to make (and it implies a certain 'timing' whatsoever). Or then you have the classic quest line without phasing, where an event is started by a trigger (often an object one player has to click) while others are queuing behind to wait for their turn.
PS: I'm having a hard time understanding why half a guild would quit over 'phasing'. I would understand being bored to death from grinding heroic tokens. But phasing?
" Events such as the opening of Ahn'Qiraj and the taking over of the Isle of Quel'Danas were simply different realm databases adding game objects and NPCs for all players."
As someone who spends most of his time grouped with one or more friends, there are more things that I dislike about phasing than like. This weekend I leveled my first goblin alt and I had a wonderful time. The quests were fun and the phasing allowed my actions to change the world around me, which is something I always felt WoW was lacking. It was something fun to do alone.
If you want to group, you group and play group content (dungeons).
If you want to solo, you play world content.
Obviously it's going to feel lame if you try to group the solo content (or vice-versa.) (Although with just 2 players I found the quest content wasn't that bad...apart from destroying any sense of challenge.)
The true criticism of WOW's grouping is its lack of sidekick system. That's a serious shortcoming.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Having gotten to lv 40 now, I see it hasn't been used too often, alas. Many regions are still old fashioned questing. Now in Western Plaguelands there is some phasing again. I find this most refreshing. I enjoy this visual impact of my doings.
I wonder, is it a sort of trademark, so other companies can not make something similar, or is it just lazyness?
"Phasing" is a very poor design for an MMO; okay for a single player game, though.
Phasing is not needed or useful for a single player game. Your actions already have a permanent mark on the game world, there is no need for "phasing".
So they make "Phasing" in WoW. Which copies what has been done before and JUST SO HAPPENS to coincide with rifts.....but this isn't trolled or flamed...cause it's WOW doin it
mark me not surprised....
Are you implying that Blizzard copied Rifts in that area?
If you're not... then nevermind .
If so, you're sorely misinformed, and allow me to correct you.
1. Phasing was introduced in WoW's last expansion, WoTLK which came out a little over 2 years ago. They've expanded/improved on it in Cata.
2. Blizzard didn't just decide "Hey, there's this game called Rifts in development that is supposed to have some dynamic events.. We need to copy them quick!" and then design, develop, implement, test and release Phasing into WoW in a couple weeks. Hell.. was Rifts even announced when Lich King came out?
Ummm....even before that, try looking into Kithicor Forest in EQ 1. The Dark elves invaded with a bunch of undeads I think the leader was Lanys Tvyl or whatever. Now during the night undeads wander around the forest. Then check out Firiona Vie, another big invasion, the good side lost and ran into the forest to make a new outpost. Since then the evil races now occupy the encampment. So if you guys are really going to be calling companies copycats, you just have to look at a much more wider range of games other than WoW and the new upcoming ones. These were FYI live events set up by the GMs, not by some junk quest starting forced event.
Edit: I forgot to add, Phasing is not a new feature. Its been so long that any game out there hasnt done it in a while, and somehow WoW implements it in their expansion and people are calling it a new feature? Maybe some of you guys haven't played EQ1 in its early days, but still its nothing new.
What do those events have to do with phasing. Those were live events, not phasing, they weren't quest lines that changed the world for the person on the quest based on their point in the quest in a way that people not at that particular point couldn't see. Everyone saw those events. In Phasing the zone changes for you because of your action but remains the same for people who have not done those actions. Those events in EQ were nothing like phasing at all.
What other game had Phasing before WoW. I'd never heard of it before lich king, that doesn't mean it didn't exist but just tell us which game had and where was it used.
I did play EQ in the early days and it did not have phasing. It had events, live and scripted but not phasing.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: actually the more I think about it, phasing seems pretty similar to music, where as the song moves along, new ellements are created and introduced. Just an interesting sidebit.
edit - personally I think phasing is great. It marriest the great stories of spg with the randomness and interaction of MMO's. The bad part of most MMO's is that you can't have an effect on the world without it affecting someone else, and that effect is not alwasy good. This way you can affect your world.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Some players' inability to understand an obviously fun feature never ceases to amaze me. Even if they don't personally enjoy it, the fact that they seem incapable of comprehending how others could enjoy it strikes me as either slow-witted or intentional trolling.
Interacting with a game world where you change the world through your actions? Uh, how is this a bad thing again? Especially when there's an entire group-based progression option parallel to the solo content...
Every other MMORPG is summed up as either "repetitive mob-grinding" or "zerg2win PVP", basically. Apart from some rare exceptions where the gameplay is more about exploration and crafting (ATITD, H&H, and I think maybe WURM too?)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
So they make "Phasing" in WoW. Which copies what has been done before and JUST SO HAPPENS to coincide with rifts.....but this isn't trolled or flamed...cause it's WOW doin it
mark me not surprised....
Are you implying that Blizzard copied Rifts in that area?
If you're not... then nevermind .
If so, you're sorely misinformed, and allow me to correct you.
1. Phasing was introduced in WoW's last expansion, WoTLK which came out a little over 2 years ago. They've expanded/improved on it in Cata.
2. Blizzard didn't just decide "Hey, there's this game called Rifts in development that is supposed to have some dynamic events.. We need to copy them quick!" and then design, develop, implement, test and release Phasing into WoW in a couple weeks. Hell.. was Rifts even announced when Lich King came out?
Ummm....even before that, try looking into Kithicor Forest in EQ 1. The Dark elves invaded with a bunch of undeads I think the leader was Lanys Tvyl or whatever. Now during the night undeads wander around the forest. Then check out Firiona Vie, another big invasion, the good side lost and ran into the forest to make a new outpost. Since then the evil races now occupy the encampment. So if you guys are really going to be calling companies copycats, you just have to look at a much more wider range of games other than WoW and the new upcoming ones. These were FYI live events set up by the GMs, not by some junk quest starting forced event.
Edit: I forgot to add, Phasing is not a new feature. Its been so long that any game out there hasnt done it in a while, and somehow WoW implements it in their expansion and people are calling it a new feature? Maybe some of you guys haven't played EQ1 in its early days, but still its nothing new.
What do those events have to do with phasing. Those were live events, not phasing, they weren't quest lines that changed the world for the person on the quest based on their point in the quest in a way that people not at that particular point couldn't see. Everyone saw those events. In Phasing the zone changes for you because of your action but remains the same for people who have not done those actions. Those events in EQ were nothing like phasing at all.
What other game had Phasing before WoW. I'd never heard of it before lich king, that doesn't mean it didn't exist but just tell us which game had and where was it used.
I did play EQ in the early days and it did not have phasing. It had events, live and scripted but not phasing.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: actually the more I think about it, phasing seems pretty similar to music, where as the song moves along, new ellements are created and introduced. Just an interesting sidebit.
edit - personally I think phasing is great. It marriest the great stories of spg with the randomness and interaction of MMO's. The bad part of most MMO's is that you can't have an effect on the world without it affecting someone else, and that effect is not alwasy good. This way you can affect your world.
Indeed, they were not "Phasing" as Blizzard has coined the term and definition, but they did change the world to some extent. I think there is nothing wrong with phasing if you are like WoW and cater to the single player through your first 84 levels. But back again to bringing back the classics - it seems like there is more at stake in live server-wide events or faction-wide events than there are in phasing, hence giving a greater sense of accomplishment. Maybe a combination of the two would work?
I think a combination is great. For running story lines, or making your feel important, phasing is fantastic. World events I think are better but understandably are probably fewer and farther between.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
So now WoW invented phasing? What's next, WoW invented instancing lol?
Phasing is an old feature that Blizzard copied, just like it has copied everything else.
WoW kiddies, learn some gaming history before you start drooling again.
Once again, name the other game that has it. If there is another game that had it before Blizzard, great good for them. So far no one has stated a game or example of it.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
So now WoW invented phasing? What's next, WoW invented instancing lol?
Phasing is an old feature that Blizzard copied, just like it has copied everything else.
WoW kiddies, learn some gaming history before you start drooling again.
Once again, name the other game that has it. If there is another game that had it before Blizzard, great good for them. So far no one has stated a game or example of it.
Venge
Phantasy Star Online, Lineage, EQ, DOMO and zillion other (especially eastern) games has it in one form or the other. Maybe Blizz uses it better/fluently but it's nothing new.
Lineage did not have it, and neither did EQ (in any shape or form for EQ). There was no example in those games where the world changed only for the people at a particular stage in a quest, and not for everyone else so you are looking at 2 different versions of the same area at the same times.
Give an example of the quests in the other games where it was used and I'll check it out.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: a quick check of phasing being used in DOMO or phantasy star online says that they do not have phasing. PSO has boss fights where they say there are two phases but those are two parts or sections, not two separate actions or scenes taking place at the same time for two people in the same place looking at that setting. Same with DOMO several events with different parts they call phases but this is not phasing.
I'll keep looking though.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Having gotten to lv 40 now, I see it hasn't been used too often, alas. Many regions are still old fashioned questing. Now in Western Plaguelands there is some phasing again. I find this most refreshing. I enjoy this visual impact of my doings.
I wonder, is it a sort of trademark, so other companies can not make something similar, or is it just lazyness?
"Phasing" is a very poor design for an MMO; okay for a single player game, though.
You ask if it is "laziness" that other game companies have not used phasing, and I would say that it is laziness to incorporate phasing into an MMO design, since phasing is really a shortcut or substitute to having real world change that all can see and share (provided they are in the geographic vicinity).
We will likely not see "phasing" used much in future MMO's; I feel like WOW is losing a lot of veteran players because of phasing. Heck, half my guild quit playing and dropped WOW shortly after the release of Cata.
Consider me surprised. I basically started WOW because of it. I guess they lose some and win others.
I don't see tha phasing is like a single player game. You still play alongside others. It's just that you see a visual impact of your doings. Maybe you didn't really understand it, so go and try it out again. It was one of my personal gripes No.1 that no matter what I did, I never had any impact on the world, or the impact was either in instances like in LOTRO, and back in the "real" world it was still unchanged. This is a connection of both. But you still got to play alongside others. So I fail to see the harm to the "MM" aspect.
Sorry that you don't like it, but things like Gilneas or Redridge area are among the most memorable experieces I have had in a MMO. It's not that you HAVE to do it if you absolutely hate story and impact. There are still plenty un-phased regions to quest.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I simply fail to see something new or important in "phasing".
NPCs reacting to the status of the player in a questchain is as old as the ideas of quests themselves.
It's not simply an npc reacting to events in a quest chain. It is an npc reacting to you and you alone. Two people in the same place at the same time see two different things.
I see a castle that is destroyed because of my action and that castle will be destroyed for me forever. Every time I come to the area I will see that destroyed castle. For me the game world is physically altered forever, because of my actions. I can go among and explore the ruins. But the person next to me who hasn't done that quest sees a fully manned and active castle and can interact with all those npcs.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
For any affadavit, I've not played WoW, and am posting purely on what has been discussed in this thread. It sounds like phasing is a game mechanic that reminds me of the opening of Fable 3 - whereby, the city and the environs will change dramatically (and stay that way) based upon a choice the player makes (in his/her past). The difference is that - how phasing has been described in this thread - is that in certain quest-lines, the outcome is different for each player, dependent on the choice(s) that they make and is permanent. As others have stated, each player's perception of the world has changed.
EQ only had server events that affected the whole server i.e. battle in Kithicor - the world (or rather, that particular zone) was changed for everyone. It did not (back when I was playing 2001/02) have phasing in any shape, way or form.
FWIW, I quite enjoyed instancing in LoTRO (and a Christmas quest in the brief time I played EQ2) to provide enhanced story-driven events and content. I see phasing in a similar way - providing that, like instancing, it is used to create drama and a sense of immersion.
Have group phasing quests been introduced i.e can you do a quest-line or a dungeon, etc as a part of a group, and the outcome (upon completion) will be the same for all group members? That way, you'll still have outcomes that will be different - and remain that way - dependent on the choices made, but the experience will be a shared experience amongst group members.
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Yes, phasing is interesting, but is in the end the opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMORPG. I want a large world which is as much as possible inhabited by players. Phasing seperates the people from each other. In WoW it can happen that someone is in your group, same level, standing right next to you, but you don't see that person, because for him the environment at the same spot is different. Then you and that player can't help each other with quests in that area, until one of you has caught up to the other and you are in the same phase.
Where earlier you saw maybe 20 people questing in a zone, giving it the feel of a vibrant active world, there you might now see only 2 players, who happen to be in the same phase as you, while the rest is invisible. Phasing thins and splits out the world.
So, interesting yes, but it's another step to move an MMORPG into a single player RPG.
Phasing is cool, but the way Blizzard implemented it is wrong in most every way.
1) Care to help a guildy do quest? Oh wait, you can't because you've all ready completed that quest line and the world has phased for you. So you cannot help your guildy.
2) A guildy is being chained ganked by a level 85 in a phased area you've all ready completed. That level 85 never did the zone so they can gank lower levels to their hearts content without fear because well - they are phased!
Phasing is cool...if implemented right. Blizzard did it wrong!
Originally posted by Riotgirl For any affadavit, I've not played WoW, and am posting purely on what has been discussed in this thread. It sounds like phasing is a game mechanic that reminds me of the opening of Fable 3 - whereby, the city and the environs will change dramatically (and stay that way) based upon a choice the player makes (in his/her past). The difference is that - how phasing has been described in this thread - is that in certain quest-lines, the outcome is different for each player, dependent on the choice(s) that they make and is permanent. As others have stated, each player's perception of the world has changed.
EQ only had server events that effected the whole server i.e. battle in Kithicor - the world (or rather, that particular zone) was changed for everyone. It did not (back when I was playing 2001/02) have phasing in any shape, way or form.
FWIW, I quite enjoyed instancing in LoTRO (and a Christmas quest in the brief time I played EQ2) to provide enhanced story-driven events and content. I see phasing in a similar way - providing that, like instancing, it is used to create drama and a sense of immersion.
Have group phasing quests been introduced i.e can you do a quest-line or a dungeon, etc as a part of a group, and the outcome (upon completion) will be the same for all group members? That way, you'll still have outcomes that will be different - and remain that way - dependent on the choices made, but the experience will be a shared experience amongst group members.
I believe the only caveat with phasing in WoW is that there aren't different outcomes for each player, just an outcome that the other players haven't reached yet. It's a one way path that each quest takes you a step down until you all have experienced the same events. I haven't played Cata but from what I've seen of my friends playing it's still not a choose your own adventure where your individual choices alter the outcome.
Definitely would add dramatic presentation to the story and more immersion. I also liked instancing in LoTRO for the story-driven instances.
I have heard some that SWTOR is going to have your choices alter quests personally and transparently, so you may be in a group all on the same 'quest' but each of you may be doing the evil or good version/choices and see different outcomes.
Where earlier you saw maybe 20 people questing in a zone, giving it the feel of a vibrant active world, there you might now see only 2 players, who happen to be in the same phase as you, while the rest is invisible. Phasing thins and splits out the world.
So, interesting yes, but it's another step to move an MMORPG into a single player RPG.
The above shows that people still do NOT know the real new phasing techniques in CATA.
You see: those 20 people are STILL in the same zone and they STILL see each other despite the different scenes they witness.
The distance they are absorbed into the phasing part is sometimes as close as 5 or 10 meters...
So your agument isn't valid.
Example (please read) in Westfall there is a new flying path for everyone ... at ... less than 10 meters away from a 3 way phased quest object without ANY loading screens (now THERE is the magic of background loading Wow is known for...)
So everyone lands there ... but is confronted with 3 realities: a. a man standing in front of his house with 2 boduguards. b. a man lying dead and surrounded by friends and family and an inspector who talks to you . c. the dead man and the CSI team is gone (the guy was burried).
So everyone STILL has contact on the flight paths but see a different reality at a mere 10 meters distance (I think Blizzard did that even on purpose to show the strength of this new technique). This is where it differs from most Wotlk phasing.
---So the argument that you are no longer in contact with the community or people in that place is ... wrong.
--- Stays the argument that you have to be on the same STEP as the other guy, but HEY that WAS always the case with a multi step quest: you always needed to be on the same quest step to resolve the quest.
So people : read the example above and you'll see that phasing is quite extra ordinary and a fantastic tool to enhance the quest leveling experience and dynamic worlds.
PS. I doubt we will see this new technique in SW:TOR: I bet you they will be instances and not phased ones.
Originally posted by JLVDB PS. I doubt we will see this new technique in SW:TOR: I bet you they will be instances and not phased ones.
I don't think we will see phasing in the sense of Cata, but I have heard you can have people doing good and evil paths while in the same group/instance. I believe this is limited to quest responses (I believe it's suppose to use an answer tree like other Bioware RPGs) and also individualized cutscenes (if you choose 'execute prisoners' you see that happen in the cutscene, and someone else chooses not to, they see their option happen), but in game environments/npcs I doubt will have phasing.
Comments
Ummm....even before that, try looking into Kithicor Forest in EQ 1. The Dark elves invaded with a bunch of undeads I think the leader was Lanys Tvyl or whatever. Now during the night undeads wander around the forest. Then check out Firiona Vie, another big invasion, the good side lost and ran into the forest to make a new outpost. Since then the evil races now occupy the encampment. So if you guys are really going to be calling companies copycats, you just have to look at a much more wider range of games other than WoW and the new upcoming ones. These were FYI live events set up by the GMs, not by some junk quest starting forced event.
Edit: I forgot to add, Phasing is not a new feature. Its been so long that any game out there hasnt done it in a while, and somehow WoW implements it in their expansion and people are calling it a new feature? Maybe some of you guys haven't played EQ1 in its early days, but still its nothing new.
Gonna side with you on this, Rifts are the best new feature in MMOs.
Congrats Blizz you have just removed more of the M from your erhmmmm MMO
Wow = MultiplayerCoopGame .
Why would you need phasing in a single player game? :-)
Without phasing, how would you re-create a story such as Gilneas' quest line? I don't see many solutions. Maybe with a timed event? Though it doesn't work well in the long run. Wrathgate is a timed event, and except during WotLK's launch, I always end up taking Undercity back alone. That would also suggest that you can only start an event every x minutes. Then you have to deal with AFK or very clueless players... Sure you can add some dynamic events, though it doesn't always fit well with the kind of story you are trying to make (and it implies a certain 'timing' whatsoever). Or then you have the classic quest line without phasing, where an event is started by a trigger (often an object one player has to click) while others are queuing behind to wait for their turn.
PS: I'm having a hard time understanding why half a guild would quit over 'phasing'. I would understand being bored to death from grinding heroic tokens. But phasing?
I thought it was introduced earlier so I googled a bit. Taken from wowwiki:
"Phasing was invented as a bug fix for the Shattered Sun Offensive daily quests in Blade's Edge Mountains: Intercepting the Mana Cells and Maintaining the Sunwell Portal"
And about AQ:
" Events such as the opening of Ahn'Qiraj and the taking over of the Isle of Quel'Danas were simply different realm databases adding game objects and NPCs for all players."
http://www.wowwiki.com/Phasing
Yeah I really don't like that about the Pub lately. Too many good threads get ported off to game-specific forums.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If you want to group, you group and play group content (dungeons).
If you want to solo, you play world content.
Obviously it's going to feel lame if you try to group the solo content (or vice-versa.) (Although with just 2 players I found the quest content wasn't that bad...apart from destroying any sense of challenge.)
The true criticism of WOW's grouping is its lack of sidekick system. That's a serious shortcoming.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Phasing is not needed or useful for a single player game. Your actions already have a permanent mark on the game world, there is no need for "phasing".
What do those events have to do with phasing. Those were live events, not phasing, they weren't quest lines that changed the world for the person on the quest based on their point in the quest in a way that people not at that particular point couldn't see. Everyone saw those events. In Phasing the zone changes for you because of your action but remains the same for people who have not done those actions. Those events in EQ were nothing like phasing at all.
What other game had Phasing before WoW. I'd never heard of it before lich king, that doesn't mean it didn't exist but just tell us which game had and where was it used.
I did play EQ in the early days and it did not have phasing. It had events, live and scripted but not phasing.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: actually the more I think about it, phasing seems pretty similar to music, where as the song moves along, new ellements are created and introduced. Just an interesting sidebit.
edit - personally I think phasing is great. It marriest the great stories of spg with the randomness and interaction of MMO's. The bad part of most MMO's is that you can't have an effect on the world without it affecting someone else, and that effect is not alwasy good. This way you can affect your world.
Some players' inability to understand an obviously fun feature never ceases to amaze me. Even if they don't personally enjoy it, the fact that they seem incapable of comprehending how others could enjoy it strikes me as either slow-witted or intentional trolling.
Interacting with a game world where you change the world through your actions? Uh, how is this a bad thing again? Especially when there's an entire group-based progression option parallel to the solo content...
Every other MMORPG is summed up as either "repetitive mob-grinding" or "zerg2win PVP", basically. Apart from some rare exceptions where the gameplay is more about exploration and crafting (ATITD, H&H, and I think maybe WURM too?)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Indeed, they were not "Phasing" as Blizzard has coined the term and definition, but they did change the world to some extent. I think there is nothing wrong with phasing if you are like WoW and cater to the single player through your first 84 levels. But back again to bringing back the classics - it seems like there is more at stake in live server-wide events or faction-wide events than there are in phasing, hence giving a greater sense of accomplishment. Maybe a combination of the two would work?
So now WoW invented phasing? What's next, WoW invented instancing lol?
Phasing is an old feature that Blizzard copied, just like it has copied everything else.
WoW kiddies, learn some gaming history before you start drooling again.
I think a combination is great. For running story lines, or making your feel important, phasing is fantastic. World events I think are better but understandably are probably fewer and farther between.
Venge Sunsoar
Once again, name the other game that has it. If there is another game that had it before Blizzard, great good for them. So far no one has stated a game or example of it.
Venge
Phantasy Star Online, Lineage, EQ, DOMO and zillion other (especially eastern) games has it in one form or the other. Maybe Blizz uses it better/fluently but it's nothing new.
Lineage did not have it, and neither did EQ (in any shape or form for EQ). There was no example in those games where the world changed only for the people at a particular stage in a quest, and not for everyone else so you are looking at 2 different versions of the same area at the same times.
Give an example of the quests in the other games where it was used and I'll check it out.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: a quick check of phasing being used in DOMO or phantasy star online says that they do not have phasing. PSO has boss fights where they say there are two phases but those are two parts or sections, not two separate actions or scenes taking place at the same time for two people in the same place looking at that setting. Same with DOMO several events with different parts they call phases but this is not phasing.
I'll keep looking though.
Consider me surprised. I basically started WOW because of it. I guess they lose some and win others.
I don't see tha phasing is like a single player game. You still play alongside others. It's just that you see a visual impact of your doings. Maybe you didn't really understand it, so go and try it out again. It was one of my personal gripes No.1 that no matter what I did, I never had any impact on the world, or the impact was either in instances like in LOTRO, and back in the "real" world it was still unchanged. This is a connection of both. But you still got to play alongside others. So I fail to see the harm to the "MM" aspect.
Sorry that you don't like it, but things like Gilneas or Redridge area are among the most memorable experieces I have had in a MMO. It's not that you HAVE to do it if you absolutely hate story and impact. There are still plenty un-phased regions to quest.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I simply fail to see something new or important in "phasing".
NPCs reacting to the status of the player in a questchain is as old as the ideas of quests themselves.
It's not simply an npc reacting to events in a quest chain. It is an npc reacting to you and you alone. Two people in the same place at the same time see two different things.
I see a castle that is destroyed because of my action and that castle will be destroyed for me forever. Every time I come to the area I will see that destroyed castle. For me the game world is physically altered forever, because of my actions. I can go among and explore the ruins. But the person next to me who hasn't done that quest sees a fully manned and active castle and can interact with all those npcs.
Venge Sunsoar
For any affadavit, I've not played WoW, and am posting purely on what has been discussed in this thread. It sounds like phasing is a game mechanic that reminds me of the opening of Fable 3 - whereby, the city and the environs will change dramatically (and stay that way) based upon a choice the player makes (in his/her past). The difference is that - how phasing has been described in this thread - is that in certain quest-lines, the outcome is different for each player, dependent on the choice(s) that they make and is permanent. As others have stated, each player's perception of the world has changed.
EQ only had server events that affected the whole server i.e. battle in Kithicor - the world (or rather, that particular zone) was changed for everyone. It did not (back when I was playing 2001/02) have phasing in any shape, way or form.
FWIW, I quite enjoyed instancing in LoTRO (and a Christmas quest in the brief time I played EQ2) to provide enhanced story-driven events and content. I see phasing in a similar way - providing that, like instancing, it is used to create drama and a sense of immersion.
Have group phasing quests been introduced i.e can you do a quest-line or a dungeon, etc as a part of a group, and the outcome (upon completion) will be the same for all group members? That way, you'll still have outcomes that will be different - and remain that way - dependent on the choices made, but the experience will be a shared experience amongst group members.
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Yes, phasing is interesting, but is in the end the opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMORPG. I want a large world which is as much as possible inhabited by players. Phasing seperates the people from each other. In WoW it can happen that someone is in your group, same level, standing right next to you, but you don't see that person, because for him the environment at the same spot is different. Then you and that player can't help each other with quests in that area, until one of you has caught up to the other and you are in the same phase.
Where earlier you saw maybe 20 people questing in a zone, giving it the feel of a vibrant active world, there you might now see only 2 players, who happen to be in the same phase as you, while the rest is invisible. Phasing thins and splits out the world.
So, interesting yes, but it's another step to move an MMORPG into a single player RPG.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Phasing is cool, but the way Blizzard implemented it is wrong in most every way.
1) Care to help a guildy do quest? Oh wait, you can't because you've all ready completed that quest line and the world has phased for you. So you cannot help your guildy.
2) A guildy is being chained ganked by a level 85 in a phased area you've all ready completed. That level 85 never did the zone so they can gank lower levels to their hearts content without fear because well - they are phased!
Phasing is cool...if implemented right. Blizzard did it wrong!
I believe the only caveat with phasing in WoW is that there aren't different outcomes for each player, just an outcome that the other players haven't reached yet. It's a one way path that each quest takes you a step down until you all have experienced the same events. I haven't played Cata but from what I've seen of my friends playing it's still not a choose your own adventure where your individual choices alter the outcome.
Definitely would add dramatic presentation to the story and more immersion. I also liked instancing in LoTRO for the story-driven instances.
I have heard some that SWTOR is going to have your choices alter quests personally and transparently, so you may be in a group all on the same 'quest' but each of you may be doing the evil or good version/choices and see different outcomes.
The above shows that people still do NOT know the real new phasing techniques in CATA.
You see: those 20 people are STILL in the same zone and they STILL see each other despite the different scenes they witness.
The distance they are absorbed into the phasing part is sometimes as close as 5 or 10 meters...
So your agument isn't valid.
Example (please read) in Westfall there is a new flying path for everyone ... at ... less than 10 meters away from a 3 way phased quest object without ANY loading screens (now THERE is the magic of background loading Wow is known for...)
So everyone lands there ... but is confronted with 3 realities: a. a man standing in front of his house with 2 boduguards. b. a man lying dead and surrounded by friends and family and an inspector who talks to you . c. the dead man and the CSI team is gone (the guy was burried).
So everyone STILL has contact on the flight paths but see a different reality at a mere 10 meters distance (I think Blizzard did that even on purpose to show the strength of this new technique). This is where it differs from most Wotlk phasing.
---So the argument that you are no longer in contact with the community or people in that place is ... wrong.
--- Stays the argument that you have to be on the same STEP as the other guy, but HEY that WAS always the case with a multi step quest: you always needed to be on the same quest step to resolve the quest.
So people : read the example above and you'll see that phasing is quite extra ordinary and a fantastic tool to enhance the quest leveling experience and dynamic worlds.
PS. I doubt we will see this new technique in SW:TOR: I bet you they will be instances and not phased ones.
I don't think we will see phasing in the sense of Cata, but I have heard you can have people doing good and evil paths while in the same group/instance. I believe this is limited to quest responses (I believe it's suppose to use an answer tree like other Bioware RPGs) and also individualized cutscenes (if you choose 'execute prisoners' you see that happen in the cutscene, and someone else chooses not to, they see their option happen), but in game environments/npcs I doubt will have phasing.