Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What is the truth regarding rifts?

13

Comments

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Hincha

     They thought about that. Invading forces hate each other as well and will kill other invading forces. So if a rift grows and none will battle it, the y just open a new rift on the same map and they will battle each other to death, next they open a rift approriate of how many people are on the map.

    Those rift events are really great! No more boredom grinding quests or anything else cause in a second or 2 all can be different and you could be battling an invasion force,

    Yeah, but the question is if the rifts themselves will feel annoyingly grindy after a while or not?

    It is hard to tell that yet, it will take a month or two before we know that, and it also depend on the spawn rate of rifts. If they spawn to often I think they just get annoying. They need to find just the right spawnrate to make them fun.

    It will also be annoying if too many people just can walk around and spawn them all the time. Great idea if it is something you can do occasionally. 

    I believe the Raid Rifts players can spawn with crafted items take rare mats to create. Not sure where to get the mats but i would imagine from Elite lvl dungeons etc.. And these are 10 to 20 man Raid lvl tears so you want to be well organized for them. My guess would be occasionally considering the amount of effort you have to put into it..

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Don't know about that. Unless you want to reliably keep the towns clean at least a few minutes every two hours, if no player does any clearing, some form of guardian/defiant commander needs to spawn and deal with them. Else the whole thing will become disruptive once the game starts becoming top heavy.

    The Rifts and Footholds are determined by the population of the zone, so when the game gets top heavy the lower lvl zones will scale down to the amount of people there. Thats some of the balanceing Trion is doing now in beta...

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • SeffrenSeffren Member Posts: 743

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Don't know about that. Unless you want to reliably keep the towns clean at least a few minutes every two hours, if no player does any clearing, some form of guardian/defiant commander needs to spawn and deal with them. Else the whole thing will become disruptive once the game starts becoming top heavy.

    The Rifts and Footholds are determined by the population of the zone, so when the game gets top heavy the lower lvl zones will scale down to the amount of people there. Thats some of the balanceing Trion is doing now in beta...

    The dragons want to destroy the inhabitants, so it kinda figures they go where the people are.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by Seffren

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Don't know about that. Unless you want to reliably keep the towns clean at least a few minutes every two hours, if no player does any clearing, some form of guardian/defiant commander needs to spawn and deal with them. Else the whole thing will become disruptive once the game starts becoming top heavy.

    The Rifts and Footholds are determined by the population of the zone, so when the game gets top heavy the lower lvl zones will scale down to the amount of people there. Thats some of the balanceing Trion is doing now in beta...

    The dragons want to destroy the inhabitants, so it kinda figures they go where the people are.

    Good point lol... I never looked at it that way but your absolutly right, and i want nothing more then to kill said Dragons..

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • astimsonastimson Member Posts: 3

    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

    Sounds like a fun game mechanic.  Reminds me a bit of the Oblivion Gates in Ob's main storyline.

    That's a good analogy.  It's a lot like the Oblivion Gates in Oblivion.  The anology twist on that is that it would be like if Oblivion Gates in Oblivion formed between the Daedric Realms of different Daedra Princes.  And then their Mobs came out to invade the local area and establish provinces of Oblivion a la the flavor of their Princes, even to fighting each other to establish that area.

    More than once I logged into an area to find it being over run, and more than once it was by mobs too powerful for me to face.  It makes choice of where you log off a little more important.  

    As well, I've logged in to see footholds established in places that didn't have guardian stones originally.  Which means that this isn't like some giant game of Domination where people claim certain pre-established points on the map and hold.  You could ignore a rift and not see the invading forces roaming around your area, but they can establish a foothold anywhere they choose.  I saw fire footholds established in the center of a goblin village, where no quest characters were waiting.  I've seen a life foothold in the middle of a glade, half the map away from the rift that spawned it.  I'm reminded of one of the trailers, where it talked about some area of that map that was nowhere suddenly becoming important for a few minutes, a few hours, or a few days.

    This is what it's about.  It's a pain in the neck when a waypoint, village, town, or city gets invaded.  But it's just as tricky to have to wade through an area thick with normal enemies who think nothing of ambushing when they get the  chance, only to stumble on a foothold churning out elites in the one area you need to get across.

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    From my limited exposure, it seems that certain points are more likely to spawn rifts than others. They are linked to certain strategic location where players can be found. I suppose that it makes sense to open a rift close to where people might pass by or will temporarily disrupt their business, instead of spawn them totally random and in locations where the people would go out of their way to reach. During the busy times of the evening, you could see rifts all around the map, while during the early hours of the day, they were open in very few spots.

    The question is not whether the rifts are random or not. That question is irrelevant to the fun factor.

    The question is whether the rifts will remain a fun engagement as the game progresses in their current state and when the people have closed their 100 ones. Is the 101 going to be equally important in the people's mind like the previous one was?

  • Az2002roAz2002ro Member UncommonPosts: 158

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

  • astimsonastimson Member Posts: 3

    Originally posted by Elidien

    Originally posted by Xasapis



    The question is whether the rifts will remain a fun engagement as the game progresses in their current state and when the people have closed their 100 ones. Is the 101 going to be equally important in the people's mind like the previous one was?

    I agree and I would add to that if they change as you level up. Are level 40 Rifts basically the same or is there a new twist to them? This is what I am curious to see.

    Level caps during the Beta have been kept lower than Level 40 so far.  So there's no way to answer that completely.  But...

    I can tell you that not every rift spawns the same creatures.  Some life rifts spawn swamp creatures and boglings (frog men), while other life rifts spawn brownies and faeries.  And some life rifts spawn elves and satyrs.  Each of those can be leveled at a certain range, and that means sometimes you're facing otherwise easy foes who have more potent abilities.  Fighting a bogling is different than fighting an elf is different than fighting a faerie.  Each requires an awareness of what their attack style is.  Some creatures ignore the tank and go after the ranged combatants first.  Others attack the heaviest dps melee guy and then move on, ignoring lightweights who don't do much damage to them.   So just because a life rift is opening near you doesn't mean that your current build or tactics will match what is coming through.

    The graphics for those rifts tearing and breaking through is gorgeous, btw.  I love the twisting mirror effects.

    But even the rifts have some flexibility with how they play out.  The rifts spawn mobs and invasions, sure, but they also collapse in stages.  Some rifts will keep popping out foes while anchor items like crystals or plants or columns remain intact.  So someone has to go and clear those away if they want to destabilize the rift.  As well, if you clear rounds particularly quickly or well, bonus stages can occur, which give you new creatures to fight, often wilder or more unexpected, and the rifts can provide you with complications during that, such as one person mentioned with being transformed into werewolves during such a bonus stage.  

    I've cleared a rift with just a few people help, once.  I was more powerful than the creatures it kept churning out, so I was able to sick my elemental pet on them and pull them down fast with damaging spell combos.  But when we downed the big final rift beast, it gave us a bonus stage with creatures leveled higher than the rift had previously held.  I was surrounded by 3-4 elites that were closer to my level, and my elemental was ignored.  It was hilarious.  I'm trying to back out of a pounding, and my plodding earth elemental is trying vainly to make it to the nearest enemy attacking me, just to draw it away.  I was laughing at the absurdity.  But the bonus round, when we cleared it, gave a hefty bonus to rewards.  I was able to buy some very nice planar gear, and add a nifty gem to my planar sigil.

    With the program allowing dynamic scaling, different mixes of creatures even per type of rift, and then the inclusion of puzzle rifts at higher levels, I'm thinking a level 40 rift is going to be mind blowing when you first run into one.  Just remembering how scary a level 18 rift was at level 11, I'm a bit nervous about the idea of level 40 rifts, myself.

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by Az2002ro

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

     

    Actually I am not wrong. If you dont wish to believe me, believe Trion's Scott Hartsman. Rifts have to have set spawn points. What he ended up admitting was that Rifts might spawn at "random times" but never random spots outside of the pre-set spots. This HAS to happen because 1) its too expensive (cpu and resources wise) to have real random location spawning. It needs to be limited and controlled. 2) Mobs react to way points. Rifts need to spawn where there is a clear path to those way points. Invasions are not dynamic outside of the tracks the devs layed down for them to follow. Therefore the spawn points have to have what we call "path nodes" which connect to all spawn points. The design dictates that the locations HAVE to be pre-set.

    Do you understand what I am saying? I am trying to keep it as simple as possible without the technical jargon. The dynamic pitch they were giving was how the server was set up, not necessarily a reference to the actual mode of play. The game is not truly 100% dynamic, however it tries to give the illusion of dynamic gameplay. That is what is important. I think they failed in this area, but then again, I know more about whats under the hood so to speak, so the illusion is easily broken from my perspective.

     

    Sorry if you continue to choose not to believe me. Either you will find out in time, as you begin to see the pattern emerge, or you wont and will never know.

    I still believe based on my knowledge and experience that Rift will not be a huge hit. It will be lucky to have 10% of Aion's numbers after 6 months. Just so you all know, Aion has over 3 million users world wide.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    A rift event is a public quest with the difference that they can spawn invasions.

    It happens like this:

    1) A tear appears in a location, these can be forced open by people or will open up by themselves after a certain amount of time.

    If a player opens it, they will receive a headstart in contribution in the public event that follows it.

    2) Public event starts and the Rift appears graphically and spawns mobs. You have two types of rifts: minor (normal mobs) and major (elite mobs), these also have different rewards.

    The event goes like this in nearly every case up to now:

    *Kill X of mob A and Y of mob B

    *Kill some more of different types.

    *Kill one or multiple mobs in a certain timespan

    --> success: Kill some more mobs, then receive a bonus boss and more rewards.

    --> failure: Rift closes, or you get some more mobs to kill and it closes (no boss) and less rewards.

    3) If the rift remains open, it spawns elite invasions (sometimes this happens very quickly) of the level the Rift had. Invasions are untouchable and will not attack for a couple of seconds when they exit the rift.

    These always consist of a couple of elites following a commander, they can be very irritating because they mostly attack all at once when you pull them.

    4) The invasion travels along the road until they find a place to summon a foothold, this can be just some place in the wild or an NPC town (in which case they destroy the ward crystal that each town has).

    A foothold is a rather small structure on the ground that is guarded by the invasion and 4 normal mobs (if it is destroyed before the defenders are killed, these can resummon it).

    5) The foothold continues to spawn invasions that will open up more footholds in turn.

     

    Footholds often colour the landscape in the tone of their planes (blackened earth for death or magma for fire ie.), so yes the terrain does change.

    This is probably the most interesting part of RIFT so far, but it does get repetitive after a while I'm afraid.

    There are special rift events as well, but so far these have always been triggered by the devs in the beta, it remains to be seen if players can trigger special events or if they appear randomly.

     

    NPC's of the enemy faction also organise random invasions now and then, they behave similarly as the rift invasions, but are not spawned by rifts (they just appear now and then).

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by Az2002ro

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

     

    Actually I am not wrong. If you dont wish to believe me, believe Trion's Scott Hartsman. Rifts have to have set spawn points. What he ended up admitting was that Rifts might spawn at "random times" but never random spots outside of the pre-set spots. This HAS to happen because 1) its too expensive (cpu and resources wise) to have real random location spawning. It needs to be limited and controlled. 2) Mobs react to way points. Rifts need to spawn where there is a clear path to those way points. Invasions are not dynamic outside of the tracks the devs layed down for them to follow. Therefore the spawn points have to have what we call "path nodes" which connect to all spawn points. The design dictates that the locations HAVE to be pre-set.

    Do you understand what I am saying? I am trying to keep it as simple as possible without the technical jargon. The dynamic pitch they were giving was how the server was set up, not necessarily a reference to the actual mode of play. The game is not truly 100% dynamic, however it tries to give the illusion of dynamic gameplay. That is what is important. I think they failed in this area, but then again, I know more about whats under the hood so to speak, so the illusion is easily broken from my perspective.

     

    Sorry if you continue to choose not to believe me. Either you will find out in time, as you begin to see the pattern emerge, or you wont and will never know.

    I still believe based on my knowledge and experience that Rift will not be a huge hit. It will be lucky to have 10% of Aion's numbers after 6 months. Just so you all know, Aion has over 3 million users world wide.

     Explain how a rift spawned in Sanctum then last weekend?  It hadn't done it before.  Clear path?  The invasions generally take roads this is true, but not always.  From my personal experience they do head towards specific objectives killing everything they come across.  The objectives are wardstones.  I guess those are the path nodes you're talking about.  You know what's under the hood?  Trion coded this game themselves.  How is that possible?  Before you say Gamebyro, they've said the code from Gamebyro is all but gone now.  Gamebyro is where they started from.  Almost all of what is in the game now, was done by them.  That information came from Hartsman.  The system is set up to run on its own, but the Devs can add content in the game on the fly without server reboot. 

    I think that's what they are refering to as dynamic.  They have the option to control it themselves or let the game run manic on its own.

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    A rift event is a public quest with the difference that they can spawn invasions.

    It happens like this:

    1) A tear appears in a location, these can be forced open by people or will open up by themselves after a certain amount of time.

    If a player opens it, they will receive a headstart in contribution in the public event that follows it.

    2) Public event starts and the Rift appears graphically and spawns mobs. You have two types of rifts: minor (normal mobs) and major (elite mobs), these also have different rewards.

    The event goes like this in nearly every case up to now:

    *Kill X of mob A and Y of mob B

    *Kill some more of different types.

    *Kill one or multiple mobs in a certain timespan

    --> success: Kill some more mobs, then receive a bonus boss and more rewards.

    --> failure: Rift closes, or you get some more mobs to kill and it closes (no boss) and less rewards.

    3) If the rift remains open, it spawns elite invasions (sometimes this happens very quickly) of the level the Rift had. Invasions are untouchable and will not attack for a couple of seconds when they exit the rift.

    These always consist of a couple of elites following a commander, they can be very irritating because they mostly attack all at once when you pull them.

    4) The invasion travels along the road until they find a place to summon a foothold, this can be just some place in the wild or an NPC town (in which case they destroy the ward crystal that each town has).

    A foothold is a rather small structure on the ground that is guarded by the invasion and 4 normal mobs (if it is destroyed before the defenders are killed, these can resummon it).

    5) The foothold continues to spawn invasions that will open up more footholds in turn.

     

    Footholds often colour the landscape in the tone of their planes (blackened earth for death or magma for fire ie.), so yes the terrain does change.

    This is probably the most interesting part of RIFT so far, but it does get repetitive after a while I'm afraid.

    There are special rift events as well, but so far these have always been triggered by the devs in the beta, it remains to be seen if players can trigger special events or if they appear randomly.

     

    NPC's of the enemy faction also organise random invasions now and then, they behave similarly as the rift invasions, but are not spawned by rifts (they just appear now and then).

     This is pretty accurate.  Few things to add.  Rifts themselves get more complicated as you level.  Fire rifts spawn statues around the parameter that shoot out flame lasers that will do significant damage to players.   Another rift has walls and book shelves and furniture that comes up from the ground.  There's an interesting mechanic of the boss using spell books from the book shelves, that players have to click on the book he's using to debuff him.  Another one with a boss surrounded by a red box thing that doesn't unlock until the rest of the mobs are killed.  I mean this could be as complicated as it gets, since we haven't seen the higher levels.  I'm betting that its not.  The rift events trigger after certain conditions in the game are met that the players control.  This was said by Trion many times.  They've not said what events need to happen and I don't think they're going to.  They want the players to figure that out I think.  The events are apart of the story.  Example Silverwood Mass Invasion deals with Prince Hyul (sp?) trying to take over the zone in the name of Greenscale.  For beta the Devs have been triggering the events.  They wanted to test them out and they wanted to show the players what the game can do.

  • Hellfyre420Hellfyre420 Member Posts: 861

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Depends if you're a cup half empty or half full kinda person?


    image

    Currently Playing:
    Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    Originally posted by Az2002ro


    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

     

    Actually I am not wrong. If you dont wish to believe me, believe Trion's Scott Hartsman. Rifts have to have set spawn points. What he ended up admitting was that Rifts might spawn at "random times" but never random spots outside of the pre-set spots. This HAS to happen because 1) its too expensive (cpu and resources wise) to have real random location spawning. It needs to be limited and controlled. 2) Mobs react to way points. Rifts need to spawn where there is a clear path to those way points. Invasions are not dynamic outside of the tracks the devs layed down for them to follow. Therefore the spawn points have to have what we call "path nodes" which connect to all spawn points. The design dictates that the locations HAVE to be pre-set.

    Do you understand what I am saying? I am trying to keep it as simple as possible without the technical jargon. The dynamic pitch they were giving was how the server was set up, not necessarily a reference to the actual mode of play. The game is not truly 100% dynamic, however it tries to give the illusion of dynamic gameplay. That is what is important. I think they failed in this area, but then again, I know more about whats under the hood so to speak, so the illusion is easily broken from my perspective.

     

    Sorry if you continue to choose not to believe me. Either you will find out in time, as you begin to see the pattern emerge, or you wont and will never know.

    I still believe based on my knowledge and experience that Rift will not be a huge hit. It will be lucky to have 10% of Aion's numbers after 6 months. Just so you all know, Aion has over 3 million users world wide.

     Explain how a rift spawned in Sanctum then last weekend?  It hadn't done it before.  Clear path?  The invasions generally take roads this is true, but not always.  From my personal experience they do head towards specific objectives killing everything they come across.  The objectives are wardstones.  I guess those are the path nodes you're talking about.  You know what's under the hood?  Trion coded this game themselves.  How is that possible?  Before you say Gamebyro, they've said the code from Gamebyro is all but gone now.  Gamebyro is where they started from.  Almost all of what is in the game now, was done by them.  That information came from Hartsman.  The system is set up to run on its own, but the Devs can add content in the game on the fly without server reboot. 

    I think that's what they are refering to as dynamic.  They have the option to control it themselves or let the game run manic on its own.

    Did it spawn across all servers? I personally didnt see it in Beta, but if it did spawn there its not a "random" spawn that found its way there. What it means is that Trion created a rift event for each faction "city" and either a condition (also a programming term) triggered it, or they did. It was preplanned in other words. If the player had the power to turn on what the game editor would see, you would find 2d game sprites representing objects, functions, hit boxes, path nodes...ect There is a clear set path for all rifts and their mobs and they are placed in conjunction with the spawn point for the rift itself. This is not done on the fly but preset. You dont see it but its there.

    Mobs from rifts do NOT have objectives. They do not utilize a form of RAI (Radical AI) much less generic AI. What they do have is a way point. The mobs will spawn and what they will have is whats called an update function in programming terms. The update function will have another function inside it telling the mobs to run along that set path. It doesnt have to be an actual road, but a preset path made by the developers. It is why the mobs will always use that exact rout, even if you were to train them away from it, they will run back to that point they left it, even if its out of the way of their "objective".

    So anyways, within that update function you which tells the mobs to move towards the way point on a pre set path there is also a function that calls on a Class. If a player does something that triggers that function, such as attacks the mob, it will call upon that class that tells it to run towards the player and begin its attack cycle, if that is broken it resets and the mob runs back to the last location.

    The reason I can tell you whats under the hood is because programming is not magically different between games. The moment you understand how one game is made, even a basic one such as super mario bros, you will understand that the approach does not change between companies and languages. Believe it or not, games are pretty dang shallow once you get the jist of how they are put together. This is why its also harder to be impressed with a bad game. The really impressive games show that the designers and programmers did something truly amazing. I dont see that in rift as its too generic and does not push the approach or mob behavior. Their behavioral patterns, even the rifts themselves, are obviously are less complicated in their coding and thus naturally less impressive. 

    No the developers cannot "add" content on the fly in the way you are thinking. That would still require a patch. What they can do however is call upon content that already exists in the game, load it into memory and have everyone see that content. But you have to realize... this is not new. Most mmorpgs do this already. Generally its not automated, but it might be in Rifts case.

    Do you understand? None of this is new, much less original. Its actually quite common and from the trained eye, not really impressive.

    I am almost tempted to say...if you love games, never learn how to make them haha, as it will cause you to notice the details many take for granted. Half of the illusion is broken, but that can also be a good thing. Its really good to hold the game industry to a higher standard.

    In fact they should be held to a higher standard. Right now the game industry rakes in more money than the Movie industry, music industry and TV industry COMBINED. There is no excuse anymore for lazy and or under developed products. Publishers waste too much money while at the same time try to cut costs in ways that only hurt the product, not help it. Companies that dont have to deal with that BS are Blizzard and Valve. You can see the difference it makes in their products.Valve is unique too in that there is no heirarchy in the development process. Everyone has equal say regardless of position, which is amazing.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by watchawatcha


    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    Originally posted by Az2002ro


    Originally posted by Rabenwolf


    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

     

    Actually I am not wrong. If you dont wish to believe me, believe Trion's Scott Hartsman. Rifts have to have set spawn points. What he ended up admitting was that Rifts might spawn at "random times" but never random spots outside of the pre-set spots. This HAS to happen because 1) its too expensive (cpu and resources wise) to have real random location spawning. It needs to be limited and controlled. 2) Mobs react to way points. Rifts need to spawn where there is a clear path to those way points. Invasions are not dynamic outside of the tracks the devs layed down for them to follow. Therefore the spawn points have to have what we call "path nodes" which connect to all spawn points. The design dictates that the locations HAVE to be pre-set.

    Do you understand what I am saying? I am trying to keep it as simple as possible without the technical jargon. The dynamic pitch they were giving was how the server was set up, not necessarily a reference to the actual mode of play. The game is not truly 100% dynamic, however it tries to give the illusion of dynamic gameplay. That is what is important. I think they failed in this area, but then again, I know more about whats under the hood so to speak, so the illusion is easily broken from my perspective.

     

    Sorry if you continue to choose not to believe me. Either you will find out in time, as you begin to see the pattern emerge, or you wont and will never know.

    I still believe based on my knowledge and experience that Rift will not be a huge hit. It will be lucky to have 10% of Aion's numbers after 6 months. Just so you all know, Aion has over 3 million users world wide.

     Explain how a rift spawned in Sanctum then last weekend?  It hadn't done it before.  Clear path?  The invasions generally take roads this is true, but not always.  From my personal experience they do head towards specific objectives killing everything they come across.  The objectives are wardstones.  I guess those are the path nodes you're talking about.  You know what's under the hood?  Trion coded this game themselves.  How is that possible?  Before you say Gamebyro, they've said the code from Gamebyro is all but gone now.  Gamebyro is where they started from.  Almost all of what is in the game now, was done by them.  That information came from Hartsman.  The system is set up to run on its own, but the Devs can add content in the game on the fly without server reboot. 

    I think that's what they are refering to as dynamic.  They have the option to control it themselves or let the game run manic on its own.

    Did it spawn across all servers? I personally didnt see it in Beta, but if it did spawn there its not a "random" spawn that found its way there. What it means is that Trion created a rift event for each faction "city" and either a condition (also a programming term) triggered it, or they did. It was preplanned in other words. If the player had the power to turn on what the game editor would see, you would find 2d game sprites representing objects, functions, hit boxes, path nodes...ect There is a clear set path for all rifts and their mobs and they are placed in conjunction with the spawn point for the rift itself. This is not done on the fly but preset. You dont see it but its there.

    Mobs from rifts do NOT have objectives. They do not utilize a form of RAI (Radical AI) much less generic AI. What they do have is a way point. The mobs will spawn and what they will have is whats called an update function in programming terms. The update function will have another function inside it telling the mobs to run along that set path. It doesnt have to be an actual road, but a preset path made by the developers. It is why the mobs will always use that exact rout, even if you were to train them away from it, they will run back to that point they left it, even if its out of the way of their "objective".

    So anyways, within that update function you which tells the mobs to move towards the way point on a pre set path there is also a function that calls on a Class. If a player does something that triggers that function, such as attacks the mob, it will call upon that class that tells it to run towards the player and begin its attack cycle, if that is broken it resets and the mob runs back to the last location.

    The reason I can tell you whats under the hood is because programming is not magically different between games. The moment you understand how one game is made, even a basic one such as super mario bros, you will understand that the approach does not change between companies and languages. Believe it or not, games are pretty dang shallow once you get the jist of how they are put together. This is why its also harder to be impressed with a bad game. The really impressive games show that the designers and programmers did something truly amazing. I dont see that in rift as its too generic and does not push the approach or mob behavior. Their behavioral patterns, even the rifts themselves, are obviously are less complicated in their coding and thus naturally less impressive. 

    No the developers cannot "add" content on the fly in the way you are thinking. That would still require a patch. What they can do however is call upon content that already exists in the game, load it into memory and have everyone see that content. But you have to realize... this is not new. Most mmorpgs do this already. Generally its not automated, but it might be in Rifts case.

    Do you understand? None of this is new, much less original. Its actually quite common and from the trained eye, not really impressive.

    I am almost tempted to say...if you love games, never learn how to make them haha, as it will cause you to notice the details many take for granted. Half of the illusion is broken, but that can also be a good thing. Its really good to hold the game industry to a higher standard.

    In fact they should be held to a higher standard. Right now the game industry rakes in more money than the Movie industry, music industry and TV industry COMBINED. There is no excuse anymore for lazy and or under developed products. Publishers waste too much money while at the same time try to cut costs in ways that only hurt the product, not help it. Companies that dont have to deal with that BS are Blizzard and Valve. You can see the difference it makes in their products.Valve is unique too in that there is no heirarchy in the development process. Everyone has equal say regardless of position, which is amazing.

    Wrong Trion does not need to patch in content on the fly, that is one of the mechanics the server technology offers...

    Go read Trion Worlds info and learn about there system...

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by Az2002ro

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I have heard two very different description of rifts.

    On one side I hear they are these amazing dynamic event that, if left unchecked, could change the landscape and take over towns and so on and so forth.

    On the other hand I hear that they are just elaborate mob spawns that just spawn and then despawn with no actual effect on the world.

    Which is closer to the truth?

    Rifts are mob spawners. They appear in the same hard coded spots on the map. Their locations are NOT random, but the time in which they appear will vary, abit, not by much.

    Invasions are hard coded paths in which certain mobs which spawn from the Rift travel. Each town is designed in such a way that without player intervention, they will fall. This is due to the fact that if an invasion uses elites and the town does not, then its pretty much set.

    Games have done this in the past as well. You can see instances of it in Tabula Rasa for example.

     A couple days ago I thought you knew what you were talking about and were right.... I've done enough research and gametime now to discover your wrong.  It isn't as simple as you want people to believe.  There ARE some hard coded spots (ie. the first area you get to when leaving the tutorial zone.  That area has 3 or 4 hard coded spots), but the majority of the game is random and more dynamic than you give credit.

     

    Actually I am not wrong. If you dont wish to believe me, believe Trion's Scott Hartsman. Rifts have to have set spawn points. What he ended up admitting was that Rifts might spawn at "random times" but never random spots outside of the pre-set spots. This HAS to happen because 1) its too expensive (cpu and resources wise) to have real random location spawning. It needs to be limited and controlled. 2) Mobs react to way points. Rifts need to spawn where there is a clear path to those way points. Invasions are not dynamic outside of the tracks the devs layed down for them to follow. Therefore the spawn points have to have what we call "path nodes" which connect to all spawn points. The design dictates that the locations HAVE to be pre-set.

    Do you understand what I am saying? I am trying to keep it as simple as possible without the technical jargon. The dynamic pitch they were giving was how the server was set up, not necessarily a reference to the actual mode of play. The game is not truly 100% dynamic, however it tries to give the illusion of dynamic gameplay. That is what is important. I think they failed in this area, but then again, I know more about whats under the hood so to speak, so the illusion is easily broken from my perspective.

     

    Sorry if you continue to choose not to believe me. Either you will find out in time, as you begin to see the pattern emerge, or you wont and will never know.

    I still believe based on my knowledge and experience that Rift will not be a huge hit. It will be lucky to have 10% of Aion's numbers after 6 months. Just so you all know, Aion has over 3 million users world wide.

     Explain how a rift spawned in Sanctum then last weekend?  It hadn't done it before.  Clear path?  The invasions generally take roads this is true, but not always.  From my personal experience they do head towards specific objectives killing everything they come across.  The objectives are wardstones.  I guess those are the path nodes you're talking about.  You know what's under the hood?  Trion coded this game themselves.  How is that possible?  Before you say Gamebyro, they've said the code from Gamebyro is all but gone now.  Gamebyro is where they started from.  Almost all of what is in the game now, was done by them.  That information came from Hartsman.  The system is set up to run on its own, but the Devs can add content in the game on the fly without server reboot. 

    I think that's what they are refering to as dynamic.  They have the option to control it themselves or let the game run manic on its own.

    Did it spawn across all servers? I personally didnt see it in Beta, but if it did spawn there its not a "random" spawn that found its way there. What it means is that Trion created a rift event for each faction "city" and either a condition (also a programming term) triggered it, or they did. It was preplanned in other words. If the player had the power to turn on what the game editor would see, you would find 2d game sprites representing objects, functions, hit boxes, path nodes...ect There is a clear set path for all rifts and their mobs and they are placed in conjunction with the spawn point for the rift itself. This is not done on the fly but preset. You dont see it but its there.

    Mobs from rifts do NOT have objectives. They do not utilize a form of RAI (Radical AI) much less generic AI. What they do have is a way point. The mobs will spawn and what they will have is whats called an update function in programming terms. The update function will have another function inside it telling the mobs to run along that set path. It doesnt have to be an actual road, but a preset path made by the developers. It is why the mobs will always use that exact rout, even if you were to train them away from it, they will run back to that point they left it, even if its out of the way of their "objective".

    So anyways, within that update function you which tells the mobs to move towards the way point on a pre set path there is also a function that calls on a Class. If a player does something that triggers that function, such as attacks the mob, it will call upon that class that tells it to run towards the player and begin its attack cycle, if that is broken it resets and the mob runs back to the last location.

    The reason I can tell you whats under the hood is because programming is not magically different between games. The moment you understand how one game is made, even a basic one such as super mario bros, you will understand that the approach does not change between companies and languages. Believe it or not, games are pretty dang shallow once you get the jist of how they are put together. This is why its also harder to be impressed with a bad game. The really impressive games show that the designers and programmers did something truly amazing. I dont see that in rift as its too generic and does not push the approach or mob behavior. Their behavioral patterns, even the rifts themselves, are obviously are less complicated in their coding and thus naturally less impressive. 

    No the developers cannot "add" content on the fly in the way you are thinking. That would still require a patch. What they can do however is call upon content that already exists in the game, load it into memory and have everyone see that content. But you have to realize... this is not new. Most mmorpgs do this already. Generally its not automated, but it might be in Rifts case.

    Do you understand? None of this is new, much less original. Its actually quite common and from the trained eye, not really impressive.

    I am almost tempted to say...if you love games, never learn how to make them haha, as it will cause you to notice the details many take for granted. Half of the illusion is broken, but that can also be a good thing. Its really good to hold the game industry to a higher standard.

    In fact they should be held to a higher standard. Right now the game industry rakes in more money than the Movie industry, music industry and TV industry COMBINED. There is no excuse anymore for lazy and or under developed products. Publishers waste too much money while at the same time try to cut costs in ways that only hurt the product, not help it. Companies that dont have to deal with that BS are Blizzard and Valve. You can see the difference it makes in their products.Valve is unique too in that there is no heirarchy in the development process. Everyone has equal say regardless of position, which is amazing.

     I get what you're saying.  Most of what you explained makes sense in the functionality of how the mob behavior works.  The rifts I'm sure are set ahead of time and what rifts open where.  But there's a hell of a lot of spawn points.  In beta 4 we saw more added.  The only thing I disagree with you is that the Devs say they are live patching the game with content, while the servers are online.  Are they lying about this in your opinion?  With that said what could a company do in a programming sense that would accomplish what you're talking about?  All the new games I've read about in the MMO world will have the problem that you're addressing.

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Wrong Trion does not need to patch in content on the fly, that is one of the mechanics the server technology offers...

    Go read Trion Worlds info and learn about there system...

    Ouch, try to snip some of those quote boxes.

    I have been following Rift ever since I was at their E3 booth. I uploaded a quick vid if you want to see

    This also means I have been reading the IRC chats with the developers on the project, listening to podcasts and watching out for a few interviews here and there.

    What I can tell you, and this was specifically brought up, is that the content they speak of is not new content as you are thinking. Again, I explained it perfectly in my post. Scott Hartsman made sure to clairify that you still need patching for new content to be added to the game client. Whats going on server side is not actually a new texture, or mesh, or major piece of code. What they are saying is that they can create events and use pre-existing content already on the client on the fly. Keep in mind, many games have done this in the past so its not all that impressive in my opinion.

    Remember, Trion as a publisher and developer, has an aggressive and abit questionable marketing team. They will say what they can to sell the game, ask them on the details however and you might get an more realistic answer.

     


    Originally posted by watchawatcha

     I get what you're saying.  Most of what you explained makes sense in the functionality of how the mob behavior works.  The rifts I'm sure are set ahead of time and what rifts open where.  But there's a hell of a lot of spawn points.  In beta 4 we saw more added.  The only thing I disagree with you is that the Devs say they are live patching the game with content, while the servers are online.  Are they lying about this in your opinion?  With that said what could a company do in a programming sense that would accomplish what you're talking about?  All the new games I've read about in the MMO world will have the problem that you're addressing.

     

    Well heres the catch, it is possible to patch a game client while it is running. However, this just means that the data is being saved, not applied, which would require the game state to be broken, the client shut down, patch applied, and game restarted. Turbine did this with their games I believe.

    The devs are not lying but its not a complete truth either. It depends on the specifics and technicalities you are asking.

    For example, the random rift spawns were originally made out to be that they could spawn anywhere on the map randomly. However, after being specifically questioned about that, Scott had to admit they are not and that the randomness is more associated with when the spawn points will trigger a rift, not where. Its in the details. Watch their tester video which had player commentary for the betas. Notice how they carefully craft the hype and the connotations of features that may or may not actually be implimented like they first appear to be.

    Trion is putting a lot of their money on their image and pushing the hype. Why do you think they did the beta the way they did? Beta keys were just lottery tickets. VIP keys were used as marketing material and to create demand. Unlike other beta's they were not interested in your beta experience prior, or the type of machine you were running. As Abigale said, its just a marketing stunt.

     

    As for the other games, yes they will all have it to different degrees. But heres the catch, its not the concept alone but the execution of the concept. Everyone can use the same building blocks, but with the right designer you can get a different result. These types of games currently have to rely on players to create the content and the world, you cannot force it. This is why PvP is important...there is actually PvP in PvE as well, as you are often competing with players by playing against the environment. Status, wealth, gear...ect All the Next Gen titles are trying to push the boundaries. Much more can be accomplished with a better game engine. Tera is using Unreal. Blade and Soul as well. ArcheAge uses the CryEngine. These engine can offer more design choices and a means to better deliver them to the player. A lot of gaming is smoke and mirrors, some are better at it than others. Immersion can occur.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    So whats your point Rabenwolf? Seems like your just blowing your horn for no other reason then to try and appear more intelligent then everyone else...

    Yes we all know that dynamic content does not mean Trion has a super intelligent server architecture that codes new content on its own..

    We know that you can't code a bran spanking new dragon while the games running and stick it in your auction house..

    We get that so whats your point of trying to explain to us that Rift doesnt really have "True Dynamic Content"?

    The only thing not Dynamic about Rifts servers is your point of view?

    Smart phones aren't really smart but some of them are really clever and fun....

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    So whats your point Rabenwolf? Seems like your just blowing your horn for no other reason then to try and appear more intelligent then everyone else...

    Yes we all know that dynamic content does not mean Trion has a super intelligent server architecture that codes new content on its own..

    We know that you can't code a bran spanking new dragon while the games running and stick it in your auction house..

    We get that so whats your point of trying to explain to us that Rift doesnt really have "True Dynamic Content"?

    The only thing not Dynamic about Rifts servers is your point of view?

    Smart phones aren't really smart but some of them are really clever and fun....

    Whats my point? Uh... you quoted me from an already existing conversation and said I was wrong then I responded telling you why its not wrong. 

    What did you not understand about that? You initiated a dialog, I responded. Simple no?

    You must not have liked the details in my answer though because now you are going off on a tangent to make up for it. If you want to disagree, do so, but lets not start talking jibberish just for the sake of responding please.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    So whats your point Rabenwolf? Seems like your just blowing your horn for no other reason then to try and appear more intelligent then everyone else...

    Yes we all know that dynamic content does not mean Trion has a super intelligent server architecture that codes new content on its own..

    We know that you can't code a bran spanking new dragon while the games running and stick it in your auction house..

    We get that so whats your point of trying to explain to us that Rift doesnt really have "True Dynamic Content"?

    The only thing not Dynamic about Rifts servers is your point of view?

    Smart phones aren't really smart but some of them are really clever and fun....

    Whats my point? Uh... you quoted me from an already existing conversation and said I was wrong then I responded telling you why its not wrong. 

    What did you not understand about that? You initiated a dialog, I responded. Simple no?

    You must not have liked the details in my answer though because now you are going off on a tangent to make up for it. If you want to disagree, do so, but lets not start talking jibberish just for the sake of responding please.

    Sounds good...

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • lordpenquinlordpenquin Member Posts: 129

    Who cares about all this bickering?  All I know is that I am having FUN with Rift, and that is all that matters.  I'm not a game engine snob or a victim of buying into developer's hype.  ALL developers lie or at least "wiggle" the facts around to make the game sound like it's the bee's knees.  They want you to buy their game and will sell it as best they can. 

    I bought Rift because I love the soul system and have fun fighting back the rifts and invasions.  To me that's all that matters. Everything else is just static.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Originally posted by lordpenquin

    Who cares about all this bickering?  All I know is that I am having FUN with Rift, and that is all that matters.  I'm not a game engine snob or a victim of buying into developer's hype.  ALL developers lie or at least "wiggle" the facts around to make the game sound like it's the bee's knees.  They want you to buy their game and will sell it as best they can. 

    I bought Rift because I love the soul system and have fun fighting back the rifts and invasions.  To me that's all that matters. Everything else is just static.

    QFT .......

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • BodysnatcherBodysnatcher Member Posts: 141

    I just skimmed through all of this but one thing you should know about this game before you buy it.

    it is fun

    > i leveled in dungeons. through pvp and rift world events. Oh yeah there are quests also.

    I started playing in the first beta and was lucky enough to be invited to all so far. I played more just to check it out and maybe make a little fun of it.

    After the last beta I got the CE preorder. I found myself having fun. Alot of fun. Will I be playing in a year? who cares. I will be playing for at least a few months and hopefully the endgame is good and I will be playing next year.

    TRION has done well. Most negative things you read are lies or half truths. Rifts is an MMO. It is not the HOLY SAVOIR of gaming or the one to KILL THE EVIL WOW. It is done well and it is fun.

    Most people who trash this game do not like MMOs. They like what they think MMOs will become or used to be. Ask them what they play that meets all their expectations.

    But one thing I know. for me it is FUN.

    Kings and Sons of God
    Travel on their way from here
    Calming restless mobs
    Easing all of their, all of their fear
    Strange times are here.

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Wrong Trion does not need to patch in content on the fly, that is one of the mechanics the server technology offers...

    Go read Trion Worlds info and learn about there system...

    Ouch, try to snip some of those quote boxes.

    I have been following Rift ever since I was at their E3 booth. I uploaded a quick vid if you want to see

    This also means I have been reading the IRC chats with the developers on the project, listening to podcasts and watching out for a few interviews here and there.

    What I can tell you, and this was specifically brought up, is that the content they speak of is not new content as you are thinking. Again, I explained it perfectly in my post. Scott Hartsman made sure to clairify that you still need patching for new content to be added to the game client. Whats going on server side is not actually a new texture, or mesh, or major piece of code. What they are saying is that they can create events and use pre-existing content already on the client on the fly. Keep in mind, many games have done this in the past so its not all that impressive in my opinion.

    Remember, Trion as a publisher and developer, has an aggressive and abit questionable marketing team. They will say what they can to sell the game, ask them on the details however and you might get an more realistic answer.

     


    Originally posted by watchawatcha

     I get what you're saying.  Most of what you explained makes sense in the functionality of how the mob behavior works.  The rifts I'm sure are set ahead of time and what rifts open where.  But there's a hell of a lot of spawn points.  In beta 4 we saw more added.  The only thing I disagree with you is that the Devs say they are live patching the game with content, while the servers are online.  Are they lying about this in your opinion?  With that said what could a company do in a programming sense that would accomplish what you're talking about?  All the new games I've read about in the MMO world will have the problem that you're addressing.

     

    Well heres the catch, it is possible to patch a game client while it is running. However, this just means that the data is being saved, not applied, which would require the game state to be broken, the client shut down, patch applied, and game restarted. Turbine did this with their games I believe.

    The devs are not lying but its not a complete truth either. It depends on the specifics and technicalities you are asking.

    For example, the random rift spawns were originally made out to be that they could spawn anywhere on the map randomly. However, after being specifically questioned about that, Scott had to admit they are not and that the randomness is more associated with when the spawn points will trigger a rift, not where. Its in the details. Watch their tester video which had player commentary for the betas. Notice how they carefully craft the hype and the connotations of features that may or may not actually be implimented like they first appear to be.

    Trion is putting a lot of their money on their image and pushing the hype. Why do you think they did the beta the way they did? Beta keys were just lottery tickets. VIP keys were used as marketing material and to create demand. Unlike other beta's they were not interested in your beta experience prior, or the type of machine you were running. As Abigale said, its just a marketing stunt.

     

    As for the other games, yes they will all have it to different degrees. But heres the catch, its not the concept alone but the execution of the concept. Everyone can use the same building blocks, but with the right designer you can get a different result. These types of games currently have to rely on players to create the content and the world, you cannot force it. This is why PvP is important...there is actually PvP in PvE as well, as you are often competing with players by playing against the environment. Status, wealth, gear...ect All the Next Gen titles are trying to push the boundaries. Much more can be accomplished with a better game engine. Tera is using Unreal. Blade and Soul as well. ArcheAge uses the CryEngine. These engine can offer more design choices and a means to better deliver them to the player. A lot of gaming is smoke and mirrors, some are better at it than others. Immersion can occur.

     Okay I get you now. 

    You're wrong about the data crap.  Trion is using cloud computing.  Most likely the same technology that SWTOR is going to use and GW2.  All three of these games will be an evolution of the MMO.  It's why Trion mentioned them in the same breath as Rift in the last podcast.  More content is running from the server load and not the client.  So yes the patch is applied and updated on the server side not the client.  They can do this thanks to cloud computing.  The same technology used for high end transfers and edits for HD material for TV and Film.  Please do more research on how Trion is actually running things.  You seem like you could be a bright guy that has just made an assumption about something that just isn't so.

    Yes the Rift locations are set, but there's over 50 different locations in a zone they can spawn from.  Hell probably more.  Where they spawn is the random part. 

    Beta is for marketing AND stress testing.  While stress testing, Trion received significant feedback from players.  Guess what?  They listened and adjusted their game accordingly.  They are still adjusting.  That's what Beta is for.  The marketing part is true (as it is in any game), but Trion was being honest about it.  You are trying to make them out like the other MMO fail companies of recent past.  They are not.  They want to succeed and are doing the best to achieve that.  So I take issue with you talking about all this money for image and hype.  What money?  They put out one commercial and offered a closed beta.  THAT IS IT.  And look at the hype that has grown from that.  That doesn't tell you anything? 

    The last paragraph I completely agree with you.

Sign In or Register to comment.