Demarrii, your opinions of airquake are totally wrong.
Demarrii, with a bofors I will typically tow myself with a 2nd account to the outskirts of an enemy town and can kill around 1 EA every 5 minutes. 90 minutes later, and about 15 EA kills, there are still 20 EA buzzing around overhead. Why? Because there are 5 allied airfields within 10 minute flight time from where im at, totalling about 400 airplanes regenerating every 3 hours. There are 10 more allied airfields within 15 minute flight time from me totalling 800 more airplanes. Thats about 1,200 planes. FOR ONE ATTACK it would take about 40 bofors gunners using 2nd accounts (80 total accounts) for there to be a successful defence against airpower in this game, and thats not including the power-diving bombers that are untouchable by bofors .
Before I stopped playing I held the #1 bofors position on CSR for a month about 6 months ago. Im not tooting my horn because im good, in fact im pretty lousy shot at long range, thats why I got a second account so I can tow myself to get nice and close to EA, im saying that I just kill faster then most players because most players are stuck at the FB and dont use 2nd accounts. When most players do get towed, they either deploy their bofors too close to an enemy town, or they deploy them in easilly seen positions from the air or from the ground, and they have no fire control, they get themselves killed too easilly or run out of ammo too fast. So it WOULD NOT take 40 bofors gunners using 2nd accounts, assuming the average kill for a bofors gunner isnt around 1 plane per 5 minutes but 1 kill for about 20 minutes (look up CSR, find TimeOnMission, and look at total kills, its more like 1 kill every 40 minutes). It would take more like 200 bofors gunners on ONE ATTACK, and about 50 full time Halftrack drivers shuffling them back and forth to FB when they run out of ammo or get killed. AB's dont have 200 bofors, they have 10% the needed number in supply.
So:
A) Airquake is the direct result of having a buttload of planes available for both sides. And the fact that it would take 250 fulltime bofors+Halftrack players to defend against <--- impossible without several hundred thousand subscribers.
Airquake is the direct result of only having 1 weapon REALLY capable of taking out enemy planes, and we all know where that weapon spawns at. Im talking about Bofors. Fighters fighting fighters are even slower, look up CSR, its more like 1 kill every 60 minutes. It would take about a thousand fighters to attrit an enemies airpower, impossible.
C) Airquake is the direct result of the bofors being very visible to the air, the tracers are like laserbeams.
D) Airquake is directly proportional to the distance the frontline is to enemy airfields.
E) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that planes can warp hundreds of feet with only half a second of internet lag. You do the math. At 400 Miles per Hour, how far can a plane travel in half a second of internet lag? Or even a tenth of a second of internet lag. You literally have to put a several inch round bullet traveling at 2,000 MPH through a profile no bigger then a SEDAN traveling at 400 MPH at some odd angle, at half a mile away, which can instantaneously at any time warp several hundred feet in any direction. With the bofor's slow rate of fire, it aint gonna happen.
F) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that airframes take way (WAY WAY WAY) too much punishment, AXIS and ALLIES, before going down. Check out the video of the Havoc taking direct 88 HIGH EXPLOSIVE hits from 100 feet away to the engine, then taking off. In real life it would have been obliterated into several thousand different pieces.
G) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that you can pull 12 gees without ripping your wings off, even with a bomb-laden Stuka or Blenheim.
H) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that you can rapidly pull 9+ gees, turning your head freely the entire time, rapidly push -2.0 gees, rapidly back to 9 gees, rapidly back to -2 gees, rapidly back to 9 gees, back to -2 gees without going permanently mentally retarded, losing bodilly functions, having your eyeballs burst, wrecking your internal organs, vomitting, or blacking out. Sudden onset of high gee's (about 6 gees) is suppose to black you out, its called G-loc. Anything beyond 9 gees, even though proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by many aerospace sources like the USAF, NASA, USN should make you lose conciousness but in WWIIONLINE you never lose conciousness. This allows deck straffers to easilly do maneuvers it could NEVER EVER do in real life. Also, most bomber airframes were incapable of pulling anything remotely near 9 gees, especially full of bombs.
I) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that the safest place for you to be is above your own AA AI. The fog protects you. The short grey circle range protects you. The 64+ player limit protects you. The 5+ layers of clouds protects you. Your AA AI protects you. And your friendly bofors protects you in the static AB below. It happens with every battle. (This is why I tow my bofors just outside of an enemy town, many low and slow juicy targets thinking they are safe. hehe. BUT THATS JUST ME! IM ONE GUY, not 400). Now I hear CRS is planning on increasing AA AI effectiveness, this will also provide more shelter to the EA.
J) Airquake is now strengthened by AO's.
Airquake ruins immersion too. All the time its the AA AI going off, ratatatatata, RATATATATA, its freaking constant. And the drone of EA engines, back and forth and back and forth. Its total nonsense. You cant even hear an ET thats 50 feet away from me.
I stopped flying luftwaffee because I could only get a kill every 30 minutes or so, so it was more efficient with the bofors. I stopped playing altogether because I was having no effect on anything. I might as well fly IL2-FB instead, I dont really effect anything in that game either, its an equipment simulator too.
And as far as the High Command is concerned, they've had 3+ years to get their act together. They just plain old suck. "Lets form up tanks." "YAY tanks." I'd usually be the only one towing a bofors behind the doomed armor column and you know what? This is what I'd usually hear Engine or Pecks (former CO, XO whatever) say to me, "Nerf09, get a tank." Blow.
The freaking GERMAN leadership has no clue. They are the ones that arent adapting to the current situation. They rely 100% on the most easilly visible unit from air, THE TANK. They think that RDP'ing the numbers of bofors from 5 to 10 is going to make a difference, YEAH at the FB, but what about around the enemy town where the EA are bombing our tanks at? Duh.
You know, I wouldnt mind airquake all that much if there were actually a leader out there I could follow that didnt rely on tanks ALL THE TIME. Heck, all we really need is a few infantry on the ground, 30 109's, 30 Stukas and some great air-ground coordination and we would never need tanks. But BLEH, killing another plane in my trusty 109 is just a cheap thrill; there are 1,200 more where that came from.
Also, in large formation of friendly planes, going on a raid, I have never ONCE seen anyone attempting to blow up enemy AA AI in the towns linked to target town. If the HC in charge had an ounce of common sense they would keep those AA AI's down so the enemy wouldnt have anywhere to run to.
Air-Raid formations are tight grouped, even though loose formations are more effective.
Spending precious time forming up, giving the enemy ample time to prepare defences.
Tanks charging straight into an enemy town thats had 45 minutes to prepare defences.
I could go on forever about the lack of basic tactics in leadership, "FORM UP TANKS." <---thats the depth of HC tactics. The BUM RUSH tactic. Its a bore. I cant believe CRS gives these boobs any power over anyone. They should be stripped of their fake-rank, and forced to do resupply 24/7. I cant believe I typed all of this.
Hehe well I'm not disaggreeing with you there actually I agree plane numbers are out of hand. But its like that for every type of thing, thats why we really need Tables of Equipment. And thats really why the Air forces need control over that equipment because mabye then people would start trying to fly smart and look after their stuff rather then fly around like fools.
I was actually in the top ten for a while with the AA for a while back when I was tired of flying and had major stutter problems and so I did my duty on the ground that way. I am not that good of a shot but I know what things look like from the ground and I know how to read planes movements so I'd generally let them get into a bad position and then shot at them when they couldn't see me or it was too late. -=)
But what is really sad is you rarely see AA guns going out with the attacking force to protect and if they are out there guess what the numskulls are too busy shelling the town that they don't see the JU's comign till its too late. Its rather sad really. It would be nice to see more AA guns in the supplies but if you think about it would that really help, the problem usually lies in players wasting the guns stupidly, and I'd almost rather see Ammo resupply in the field before I'd worry about things like mobile AA guns, I'm sure you'd see more mobile AA used as mobile artillery instead of actually providing AA support on the front. Its hard to say, but just a hunch. Its the typical manner of play these days, its funny cuz your very critical of the game, and me I'm very critical of the players and how they play the game. I guess we just have our own perspectives on the matter, I do enjoy hearing your views on things even though I don't always agree with them. heh.
Ok so let me throw some counters at you for your theorizing.
a) you could have planes at the AF's and still have a buttload of planes in the air, The reason I say that is the frontline AF's are always drained anyways so these guys are obviously flying them up from rearward fields anyways I highly doubt it will stop the dedicated guys the only ones its going to stop are guys who are too lazy to fly 15 mins, and it won't stop guys like me because we only use one plane mabye every couple of hours if its a good night we ues the same plane all night long, but then again guys like me aren't the problem we are the ones way up high in the sky not the ones air quanking the ground. Anyways...
b) Your right about the weapons, but I doubt if mobile AA or something else would really change that at all, all we'd see is a bunch mobile field artillery pieces more then AA guns. The problem as I see is that there is alot of free space out there, as a pilot on the deck you know if you not within a klick of a frontline town your highly unlikely to encounter AA guns, and probably not going to run into too many enemy fighters either. Couple that with the fact that the perpetual cloud layers means those of us who are flying smart have to slowly work our way down into a combat zone so we don't give away our badly sought after and cherished altitude advantage, and we don't tend to stick around because of the fact that we can't spot contacts at long distance if we don't play it safe and go back up 30 seconds after we dropped into the area we could have an enemy fighter group hovering above us because we can't see them coming, its literally like flying blind alot of the time, I really wish the clouds were a little less prevalent, fighter CAP's would be so much more effective in controlling airspace if we could actually see things more then a couple thousand feet below us...
c) yep AA fire is like a homing beacon for planes, hence the reason the smarter AA gunners will not fire in long bursts but mabye 1-3 shots at a time and only when we think we will kill them without them seeing us. Much safer that way.
d) Yep your dead bang on that one, I'd love to have frontline AF's shutdown or atleast not get direct supplies, I oce told a superior if it was my call I'd have Antwerp only allow refual and rearm no direct supplies because only an idiot would have stockpiles of planes and supplies at a field that could be bombed within minutes or camped within hours. He didn't like that suggestion, I thought it was a fine idea myself. heh.
e) Ya I guess honestly its all about leading and letting them fly into your rounds I usually don't have too much trouble hitting planes if I let them come into my kill zone and am patient enough for them to give me a good profile.
f) Well in a way I agree but I really think its to do with a few things, for one there is alot of empty space in a plane that would have cables, lines, and the like. And add to that there is the problem that HE rounds only generate something like 17 fragments of a certain size and if those don't hit anything vital it really doesn't accomplish much. I go buy the rule that I try to land atleast 3 shots to hit before I expect to see a good effect. Like I say just gotta understand the limitations and live with them. Not saying I wouldn't want to see it improved.
g) Totally agree with ya on that one, I still laugh at guys pulling absolutely rediculous high G maneuvers especially the bombers, I can't wait for the day structural stress is added to the model, I think that it would also help alot in the sense that if a guy got decently whacked with a round it might cause enough weakening that if the pilot wasn't careful he could snap that part of the plane, ah well we can only dream can't we.
h) Yep agree wth you again, but I personally don't push myself to those kind of limits because if your doing that you blowing your speed badly and thats never a good idea. I would like to see a better pilot model where we had to deal with more limitations in how we acted and we couldn't control our planes when blacked out. I'd also like to see Stall conditions be alot more difficult to control and get out of, its almost rediculous how easy it is to control anything but a pure flat spin.
I) yep gotta agree with again, many of your points have always been a major gripe of mine, and its one of the reasons I used to tell my squad mates and officers who asked us to fly into the thick of it on the ground that we weren't going to go there, you just end up getting stupid you can't realyl have good SA when 64 is affecting what you can see, its better now with increased vis limits but its still not a good place to be. And I always consider using AA AI is a weakness, if you rely on that to save you you'll never really learn how handle yourself and get youself out of your own jams. One of my favourite ways of practice guns defense and learning how to get out of bad jams is to grab a Hurricane drop into a flight of 3+ enemy and give a few turns and then see if I can drag them all over the sky. The biggest problem with most peoples guns defense is they tend to over do it, its really all about paying attention to where you are going, what sort of position the enemy has on you and only jink when they have a firing solution to be twisting and rolling around excessively which is exactly what your opponent wants for you to give him a shot, you want him to think your unawares he'll pull his nose into a shot and then you move out the way from where he thinks you'll be but enough of that, the point is rely on AA guns to save your day is not the answer, air combat is not about fighting on the deck.
J) AO's just paints a bullseye on the map I still think it comes down to the players and the squads who feel they need to bring in that overwhelming airsupport and plunk it down in one spot to get things down. No word of a lie I have seen both the RAF and the FAF called down onto one town to literally decimate and control the whole area because they figured it was how it had to get done, that is just the mentality of some players, they don't feel they are doing their job, or having a good time if they aren't in on the big gang bang, and I just don't agree with that philosophy, even when my squad does CAS you'll see us come in at 20k feet we'll go into a right echelon and dive in on formation if its a hot drop on structures we're one pass hit the area and we're out we'll usually RTB or setup just off from target and intercept enemy coming in, we don't sit over target and keep nailing the same earth over and over, we don't gang up on enemy, you'll see a lead and his wing the rest of us are high above or off to one side so we can watch their 6's and let them know if they are getting dragged. In my opinion it really comes down to how we as players choose to play the game. We can either keep Air Quank rolling as it is or we as a group decide to change our tactics, if those we fight against won't see it for what it is then we as opponents have to teach them the error of their ways, by shooting them down by forcing them away, by making them come up and out to clear us away so they can function. That is war, you can't blame the game for the way players chose to play it or abuse various aspects of the game, you have to counter some tactics with some of your own, thats just how I see it.
And I've actually proved before, I took a situation much like the one we're facing except in this case it was the Luftwaffe who were totally wreaking havoc up north and we turned the tables on them. We didn't fight them directly at the source instead we want to their source, Gilze AF and we forced them to fight us there, suddenly there was alot less Luftwaffe on CAS over the frontline, because they were having trouble getting away from Gilze and their fighters were almost constantly dealing with ours which were stacked high over Gilze, and we'd just keep applying pressure. And for a while it worked, it changed the airwar up in the North. But then players decided they didn't need to maintain the effort and gradually things slipped back into the old modes, and now you very rarely see large organized flights much less staggered flights in operation anymore and you never see them directed to do Interception or Interdictions, CAP and BARCAP's over flight corridors or AF's you see them flying over frontline town in the 64 limit and often strafing the ground targets... its madness, but its a madness of our fashioning, atleast I believe so, after all nobody is holding a gun to our head forcing us to do this, its not more effective I can prove otherwise, but my method requires discipline, requires not being in the thick for the whole flight, it requires following orders and doing whats right for the flight and your wing instead of just goign head hunting, its a different style then most casual fliers are willing to commit to, and the ones who could or do like to often find themselves alone at those altitudes or not flying in ww2ol anymore, because the game just doesn't lend itself to that kind of flying anymore. Its alot of searching around for that rare enemy you'll find up there and then normally one will dive out early rather then lose the plane. ITs a shame but its how things are these days, and thats why I say the current airwar is a joke. Because it could be so much more then what it is now.
Also I would add these thoughts I was gonna post earlier on this topic...
Alot of these issues like the planes nubmers etc are what Tables of Equipment is for thats the fix everyone is waiting on, and I"m sure when it arrives a good portion of the players will freak out because they can't get this or that whenever they want to now... honestly I really feel like alot of the times the players/community are their own worst enemy, they whine for this and that and when they get it mabye not exactly what they want but all that is capable of being delivered and essentially what they asked for it "Oh no the sky is falling." You see it for everything, Depot Spawning, Attack Objectives, Fallback, HAAC.
Everything I swear gets sh!t kicked by some group of the playerbase as soon as it arrives before anyones bothered to get to try it out really learn its uses and problems and rarely do the players look at their role in all of this, how they chose to play or work around the mechanics. We the players caused No Linky No Cappy, you remember that? We the players caused alot of things to get written into the game because we always look for the simple easy way around things, we are the campers the game didn't makes us camp we choose to do so, you can argue that its required to win, but its not because I"ve seen it happen and it wasn't camping, and by camping I mean rolling in 50 tanks and surrounding every building, the reason we camp is cuz its expedient its a no brainer.
We are the major flaw in most of the games design I'm sorry to say because we are to lazy we don't really want a good fight we just want to win in the shortest time possible with the least ammount of effort and that includes Air Quake to I'm afraid, after all what is Air Quake except a bunch of Air planes who would rather go out and hunt down a bunch of targets that aside from AA guns can't really protect themselves, sure it helps the buddies on the ground but if it weren't fun and easy to do I'm sure you wouldn't see the tons of people we do see doing it, thats also why you don't see hordes of pilots up at 20,000 feet fighting you see them on the deck, have you ever fought way up there?
Its not like fighting on the deck. For starters your opponents tend to be very smart, skilled, and nasty opponents you make a wrong move and you usually die, the air is much thinner you don't make aggressive maneuvers its all about reading your opponent and making a good maneuver which gives you advantage or better you put you into his lead without loading your airframe or throwing away speed, most smart Energy fighters go up instead of down, they disengage when they lose advantage, and they generally don't go around solo and if they do its strictly one pass haul ass, its boring for most people its like playing chess in the skies. There is No drama up there unless you are smart and skilled enough to make it into one, most just get up there get fixated or too aggressive and get themselves killed quickly,
Up there its just business your there to kill em if you can't you get the heck out and try to stay alive to come back in 10-20 mins above them to try again, its smart and its effective, I usually fly for over an hour I usually come back out of fuel instead of out of ammo, I don't lead flights much any more because nobody wants to fly the way I do aside from my squad mates and they don't play much anymore, it used to be fun we used to run into Flights up there now your lucky to find a pair, once in a while you'll see a flight but hardly the large ongoing engagements we did 2 years ago, then add to that with the new graphics overhaul they either increased the clouds alot more, or they added a fog which really makes spotting distant contacts a chore you got to plaster your face against the monitor to be certain thats a con and if it 2-4k feet altitude difference you'll never see em, thats not exactly a good setup for operating as flights where you want to be making earlier acquisition, turning or bracketing for interception etc. You just can't use the kind of tactics in the game we tried to employ years ago, the Air war just changed, we're all kinda hoping it changes back into something that is more fun for us again, until then most are playing IL2 unfortunately...
... sure there are other contributing factors to why there is Air Quank and why the Airwar is such a mess, but we are and will always be the driving force behind how this game gets played I'm afraid.
Thats my main point of it all. Its not that the game is terribly broke imo, sure its got plenty of flaws and things which can and should be improved upon, but its how we choose to play the game that really brings out the issues in my opinion.
Originally posted by nubcaek Nice post! But about the players in Europe.. Im on the edge of subscribing to this game.. but... I read I can expect Much less battles during European Times.. is this true.. ? And when do the Americans join? > 19:00GMT+1 ?
That is no longer true. There are good battles during most times now since Attack Objectives were adedd back in december. There will also finally be a European release of the game this summer. The game has NEVER been released in a retail form in Europe to this point.
Patience and real time? I am only a troll and never intend to play the game. I am a fan of game based turn systems for many good reasons, and now, you get me laughing pretty bad!
But reading that someone need patience in a real time game, a game that lack the patience to go game based turn, well, that is hilarious!
Patience in real time = lame excuse to favorised peoples who are not worthy of been at the TOP IMO.
Go game based turn if you want to talk about patience...real time and patience? LOL I will NEVER even consider those 2 words in the same sentence seriously!
At best patience(and the virtues coming with, like strategies and profound thinking) in a real time game could be like a strenght contest for 10 years old kids!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You are entitled to your opinions, but i speak for many of my fellow wwiiol players when i say that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in this case.
yeah i wonder how long he would survive without patience, thats not a rambo game...you have to watch your enemy cause you die very easy in this game if you have no patience, thats no a lame excuse thats a part of the game and important to survive and succed
did you ever play this game or how do you come to this conclusion ?
WWII Online is more a WWII simulator then a game. It is close to reality in the aspect that you is as vulnerable as in reality, and the game world is as big as the reality. The gameworld is western Europe scaled 1:2. It is a gigantic 3D-world, comparable to now other game I ever heard about. Major difference is that you get second chance after you "died". But no many likes to die every 15-30 second, not even in a game. Hence you have to have great patience to be able to stay alive. There is a word for it, namely "combat situation awareness".
Second reason for patience. To be able to take a town must the attack be coordinated and well planned. It means to set up recon around the target, create air supperiority over and around the target and uphold the air superiority for the next couple of hours, cut off the supply lines by setting up ambushes at possible supply routes.
Then must the infantry sweap the the target's perimeter from enemy Anti-tank guns so it will be little safer for the waiting Armour to enter the surroundings of the target, may it be a small village with a single Armybase or a large ciy with three or even four Armybases.
First then can the real attack begin. And an attack can take hours before it is settled if it is a small target. The bigger targets like Antwerp, Brussels, Luxemburg et al can take days before they falls or the attackers withdraws.
Normally does it take at least another hour or more to even start to enter the target. (You don't want to rush in to the town with your armour and get ambushed 30 seconds later.) And to be victorious must you show even more patience by up hold the recon, the air superiority, the ambushing groups by the supply routes, and keeping the target under pressure so the defenders can be attriated efficiently. That is what settles the battle. Who is attriated first, and who is able to send forward resupply faster then the other side.
In short, it not only demands lots of patience but also lots of cooperation and communication.
If you trie WWII Online for a few days am I convinced you will withdraw your ignorant comment Anofalye.
Comments
Demarrii, your opinions of airquake are totally wrong.
Demarrii, with a bofors I will typically tow myself with a 2nd account to the outskirts of an enemy town and can kill around 1 EA every 5 minutes. 90 minutes later, and about 15 EA kills, there are still 20 EA buzzing around overhead. Why? Because there are 5 allied airfields within 10 minute flight time from where im at, totalling about 400 airplanes regenerating every 3 hours. There are 10 more allied airfields within 15 minute flight time from me totalling 800 more airplanes. Thats about 1,200 planes. FOR ONE ATTACK it would take about 40 bofors gunners using 2nd accounts (80 total accounts) for there to be a successful defence against airpower in this game, and thats not including the power-diving bombers that are untouchable by bofors .
Before I stopped playing I held the #1 bofors position on CSR for a month about 6 months ago. Im not tooting my horn because im good, in fact im pretty lousy shot at long range, thats why I got a second account so I can tow myself to get nice and close to EA, im saying that I just kill faster then most players because most players are stuck at the FB and dont use 2nd accounts. When most players do get towed, they either deploy their bofors too close to an enemy town, or they deploy them in easilly seen positions from the air or from the ground, and they have no fire control, they get themselves killed too easilly or run out of ammo too fast. So it WOULD NOT take 40 bofors gunners using 2nd accounts, assuming the average kill for a bofors gunner isnt around 1 plane per 5 minutes but 1 kill for about 20 minutes (look up CSR, find TimeOnMission, and look at total kills, its more like 1 kill every 40 minutes). It would take more like 200 bofors gunners on ONE ATTACK, and about 50 full time Halftrack drivers shuffling them back and forth to FB when they run out of ammo or get killed. AB's dont have 200 bofors, they have 10% the needed number in supply.
So:
A) Airquake is the direct result of having a buttload of planes available for both sides. And the fact that it would take 250 fulltime bofors+Halftrack players to defend against <--- impossible without several hundred thousand subscribers.
C) Airquake is the direct result of the bofors being very visible to the air, the tracers are like laserbeams.
D) Airquake is directly proportional to the distance the frontline is to enemy airfields.
E) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that planes can warp hundreds of feet with only half a second of internet lag. You do the math. At 400 Miles per Hour, how far can a plane travel in half a second of internet lag? Or even a tenth of a second of internet lag. You literally have to put a several inch round bullet traveling at 2,000 MPH through a profile no bigger then a SEDAN traveling at 400 MPH at some odd angle, at half a mile away, which can instantaneously at any time warp several hundred feet in any direction. With the bofor's slow rate of fire, it aint gonna happen.
F) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that airframes take way (WAY WAY WAY) too much punishment, AXIS and ALLIES, before going down. Check out the video of the Havoc taking direct 88 HIGH EXPLOSIVE hits from 100 feet away to the engine, then taking off. In real life it would have been obliterated into several thousand different pieces.
G) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that you can pull 12 gees without ripping your wings off, even with a bomb-laden Stuka or Blenheim.
H) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that you can rapidly pull 9+ gees, turning your head freely the entire time, rapidly push -2.0 gees, rapidly back to 9 gees, rapidly back to -2 gees, rapidly back to 9 gees, back to -2 gees without going permanently mentally retarded, losing bodilly functions, having your eyeballs burst, wrecking your internal organs, vomitting, or blacking out. Sudden onset of high gee's (about 6 gees) is suppose to black you out, its called G-loc. Anything beyond 9 gees, even though proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by many aerospace sources like the USAF, NASA, USN should make you lose conciousness but in WWIIONLINE you never lose conciousness. This allows deck straffers to easilly do maneuvers it could NEVER EVER do in real life. Also, most bomber airframes were incapable of pulling anything remotely near 9 gees, especially full of bombs.
I) Airquake is strengthened by the fact that the safest place for you to be is above your own AA AI. The fog protects you. The short grey circle range protects you. The 64+ player limit protects you. The 5+ layers of clouds protects you. Your AA AI protects you. And your friendly bofors protects you in the static AB below. It happens with every battle. (This is why I tow my bofors just outside of an enemy town, many low and slow juicy targets thinking they are safe. hehe. BUT THATS JUST ME! IM ONE GUY, not 400). Now I hear CRS is planning on increasing AA AI effectiveness, this will also provide more shelter to the EA.
J) Airquake is now strengthened by AO's.
Airquake ruins immersion too. All the time its the AA AI going off, ratatatatata, RATATATATA, its freaking constant. And the drone of EA engines, back and forth and back and forth. Its total nonsense. You cant even hear an ET thats 50 feet away from me.
I stopped flying luftwaffee because I could only get a kill every 30 minutes or so, so it was more efficient with the bofors. I stopped playing altogether because I was having no effect on anything. I might as well fly IL2-FB instead, I dont really effect anything in that game either, its an equipment simulator too.
And as far as the High Command is concerned, they've had 3+ years to get their act together. They just plain old suck. "Lets form up tanks." "YAY tanks." I'd usually be the only one towing a bofors behind the doomed armor column and you know what? This is what I'd usually hear Engine or Pecks (former CO, XO whatever) say to me, "Nerf09, get a tank." Blow.
The freaking GERMAN leadership has no clue. They are the ones that arent adapting to the current situation. They rely 100% on the most easilly visible unit from air, THE TANK. They think that RDP'ing the numbers of bofors from 5 to 10 is going to make a difference, YEAH at the FB, but what about around the enemy town where the EA are bombing our tanks at? Duh.
You know, I wouldnt mind airquake all that much if there were actually a leader out there I could follow that didnt rely on tanks ALL THE TIME. Heck, all we really need is a few infantry on the ground, 30 109's, 30 Stukas and some great air-ground coordination and we would never need tanks. But BLEH, killing another plane in my trusty 109 is just a cheap thrill; there are 1,200 more where that came from.
Also, in large formation of friendly planes, going on a raid, I have never ONCE seen anyone attempting to blow up enemy AA AI in the towns linked to target town. If the HC in charge had an ounce of common sense they would keep those AA AI's down so the enemy wouldnt have anywhere to run to.
Air-Raid formations are tight grouped, even though loose formations are more effective.
Spending precious time forming up, giving the enemy ample time to prepare defences.
Tanks charging straight into an enemy town thats had 45 minutes to prepare defences.
I could go on forever about the lack of basic tactics in leadership, "FORM UP TANKS." <---thats the depth of HC tactics. The BUM RUSH tactic. Its a bore. I cant believe CRS gives these boobs any power over anyone. They should be stripped of their fake-rank, and forced to do resupply 24/7. I cant believe I typed all of this.
Hehe well I'm not disaggreeing with you there actually I agree plane numbers are out of hand. But its like that for every type of thing, thats why we really need Tables of Equipment. And thats really why the Air forces need control over that equipment because mabye then people would start trying to fly smart and look after their stuff rather then fly around like fools.
I was actually in the top ten for a while with the AA for a while back when I was tired of flying and had major stutter problems and so I did my duty on the ground that way. I am not that good of a shot but I know what things look like from the ground and I know how to read planes movements so I'd generally let them get into a bad position and then shot at them when they couldn't see me or it was too late. -=)
But what is really sad is you rarely see AA guns going out with the attacking force to protect and if they are out there guess what the numskulls are too busy shelling the town that they don't see the JU's comign till its too late. Its rather sad really. It would be nice to see more AA guns in the supplies but if you think about it would that really help, the problem usually lies in players wasting the guns stupidly, and I'd almost rather see Ammo resupply in the field before I'd worry about things like mobile AA guns, I'm sure you'd see more mobile AA used as mobile artillery instead of actually providing AA support on the front. Its hard to say, but just a hunch. Its the typical manner of play these days, its funny cuz your very critical of the game, and me I'm very critical of the players and how they play the game. I guess we just have our own perspectives on the matter, I do enjoy hearing your views on things even though I don't always agree with them. heh.
Ok so let me throw some counters at you for your theorizing.
a) you could have planes at the AF's and still have a buttload of planes in the air, The reason I say that is the frontline AF's are always drained anyways so these guys are obviously flying them up from rearward fields anyways I highly doubt it will stop the dedicated guys the only ones its going to stop are guys who are too lazy to fly 15 mins, and it won't stop guys like me because we only use one plane mabye every couple of hours if its a good night we ues the same plane all night long, but then again guys like me aren't the problem we are the ones way up high in the sky not the ones air quanking the ground. Anyways...
b) Your right about the weapons, but I doubt if mobile AA or something else would really change that at all, all we'd see is a bunch mobile field artillery pieces more then AA guns. The problem as I see is that there is alot of free space out there, as a pilot on the deck you know if you not within a klick of a frontline town your highly unlikely to encounter AA guns, and probably not going to run into too many enemy fighters either. Couple that with the fact that the perpetual cloud layers means those of us who are flying smart have to slowly work our way down into a combat zone so we don't give away our badly sought after and cherished altitude advantage, and we don't tend to stick around because of the fact that we can't spot contacts at long distance if we don't play it safe and go back up 30 seconds after we dropped into the area we could have an enemy fighter group hovering above us because we can't see them coming, its literally like flying blind alot of the time, I really wish the clouds were a little less prevalent, fighter CAP's would be so much more effective in controlling airspace if we could actually see things more then a couple thousand feet below us...
c) yep AA fire is like a homing beacon for planes, hence the reason the smarter AA gunners will not fire in long bursts but mabye 1-3 shots at a time and only when we think we will kill them without them seeing us. Much safer that way.
d) Yep your dead bang on that one, I'd love to have frontline AF's shutdown or atleast not get direct supplies, I oce told a superior if it was my call I'd have Antwerp only allow refual and rearm no direct supplies because only an idiot would have stockpiles of planes and supplies at a field that could be bombed within minutes or camped within hours. He didn't like that suggestion, I thought it was a fine idea myself. heh.
e) Ya I guess honestly its all about leading and letting them fly into your rounds I usually don't have too much trouble hitting planes if I let them come into my kill zone and am patient enough for them to give me a good profile.
f) Well in a way I agree but I really think its to do with a few things, for one there is alot of empty space in a plane that would have cables, lines, and the like. And add to that there is the problem that HE rounds only generate something like 17 fragments of a certain size and if those don't hit anything vital it really doesn't accomplish much. I go buy the rule that I try to land atleast 3 shots to hit before I expect to see a good effect. Like I say just gotta understand the limitations and live with them. Not saying I wouldn't want to see it improved.
g) Totally agree with ya on that one, I still laugh at guys pulling absolutely rediculous high G maneuvers especially the bombers, I can't wait for the day structural stress is added to the model, I think that it would also help alot in the sense that if a guy got decently whacked with a round it might cause enough weakening that if the pilot wasn't careful he could snap that part of the plane, ah well we can only dream can't we.
h) Yep agree wth you again, but I personally don't push myself to those kind of limits because if your doing that you blowing your speed badly and thats never a good idea. I would like to see a better pilot model where we had to deal with more limitations in how we acted and we couldn't control our planes when blacked out. I'd also like to see Stall conditions be alot more difficult to control and get out of, its almost rediculous how easy it is to control anything but a pure flat spin.
I) yep gotta agree with again, many of your points have always been a major gripe of mine, and its one of the reasons I used to tell my squad mates and officers who asked us to fly into the thick of it on the ground that we weren't going to go there, you just end up getting stupid you can't realyl have good SA when 64 is affecting what you can see, its better now with increased vis limits but its still not a good place to be. And I always consider using AA AI is a weakness, if you rely on that to save you you'll never really learn how handle yourself and get youself out of your own jams. One of my favourite ways of practice guns defense and learning how to get out of bad jams is to grab a Hurricane drop into a flight of 3+ enemy and give a few turns and then see if I can drag them all over the sky. The biggest problem with most peoples guns defense is they tend to over do it, its really all about paying attention to where you are going, what sort of position the enemy has on you and only jink when they have a firing solution to be twisting and rolling around excessively which is exactly what your opponent wants for you to give him a shot, you want him to think your unawares he'll pull his nose into a shot and then you move out the way from where he thinks you'll be but enough of that, the point is rely on AA guns to save your day is not the answer, air combat is not about fighting on the deck.
J) AO's just paints a bullseye on the map I still think it comes down to the players and the squads who feel they need to bring in that overwhelming airsupport and plunk it down in one spot to get things down. No word of a lie I have seen both the RAF and the FAF called down onto one town to literally decimate and control the whole area because they figured it was how it had to get done, that is just the mentality of some players, they don't feel they are doing their job, or having a good time if they aren't in on the big gang bang, and I just don't agree with that philosophy, even when my squad does CAS you'll see us come in at 20k feet we'll go into a right echelon and dive in on formation if its a hot drop on structures we're one pass hit the area and we're out we'll usually RTB or setup just off from target and intercept enemy coming in, we don't sit over target and keep nailing the same earth over and over, we don't gang up on enemy, you'll see a lead and his wing the rest of us are high above or off to one side so we can watch their 6's and let them know if they are getting dragged. In my opinion it really comes down to how we as players choose to play the game. We can either keep Air Quank rolling as it is or we as a group decide to change our tactics, if those we fight against won't see it for what it is then we as opponents have to teach them the error of their ways, by shooting them down by forcing them away, by making them come up and out to clear us away so they can function. That is war, you can't blame the game for the way players chose to play it or abuse various aspects of the game, you have to counter some tactics with some of your own, thats just how I see it.
And I've actually proved before, I took a situation much like the one we're facing except in this case it was the Luftwaffe who were totally wreaking havoc up north and we turned the tables on them. We didn't fight them directly at the source instead we want to their source, Gilze AF and we forced them to fight us there, suddenly there was alot less Luftwaffe on CAS over the frontline, because they were having trouble getting away from Gilze and their fighters were almost constantly dealing with ours which were stacked high over Gilze, and we'd just keep applying pressure. And for a while it worked, it changed the airwar up in the North. But then players decided they didn't need to maintain the effort and gradually things slipped back into the old modes, and now you very rarely see large organized flights much less staggered flights in operation anymore and you never see them directed to do Interception or Interdictions, CAP and BARCAP's over flight corridors or AF's you see them flying over frontline town in the 64 limit and often strafing the ground targets... its madness, but its a madness of our fashioning, atleast I believe so, after all nobody is holding a gun to our head forcing us to do this, its not more effective I can prove otherwise, but my method requires discipline, requires not being in the thick for the whole flight, it requires following orders and doing whats right for the flight and your wing instead of just goign head hunting, its a different style then most casual fliers are willing to commit to, and the ones who could or do like to often find themselves alone at those altitudes or not flying in ww2ol anymore, because the game just doesn't lend itself to that kind of flying anymore. Its alot of searching around for that rare enemy you'll find up there and then normally one will dive out early rather then lose the plane. ITs a shame but its how things are these days, and thats why I say the current airwar is a joke. Because it could be so much more then what it is now.
Also I would add these thoughts I was gonna post earlier on this topic...
Alot of these issues like the planes nubmers etc are what Tables of Equipment is for thats the fix everyone is waiting on, and I"m sure when it arrives a good portion of the players will freak out because they can't get this or that whenever they want to now... honestly I really feel like alot of the times the players/community are their own worst enemy, they whine for this and that and when they get it mabye not exactly what they want but all that is capable of being delivered and essentially what they asked for it "Oh no the sky is falling." You see it for everything, Depot Spawning, Attack Objectives, Fallback, HAAC.
Everything I swear gets sh!t kicked by some group of the playerbase as soon as it arrives before anyones bothered to get to try it out really learn its uses and problems and rarely do the players look at their role in all of this, how they chose to play or work around the mechanics. We the players caused No Linky No Cappy, you remember that? We the players caused alot of things to get written into the game because we always look for the simple easy way around things, we are the campers the game didn't makes us camp we choose to do so, you can argue that its required to win, but its not because I"ve seen it happen and it wasn't camping, and by camping I mean rolling in 50 tanks and surrounding every building, the reason we camp is cuz its expedient its a no brainer.
We are the major flaw in most of the games design I'm sorry to say because we are to lazy we don't really want a good fight we just want to win in the shortest time possible with the least ammount of effort and that includes Air Quake to I'm afraid, after all what is Air Quake except a bunch of Air planes who would rather go out and hunt down a bunch of targets that aside from AA guns can't really protect themselves, sure it helps the buddies on the ground but if it weren't fun and easy to do I'm sure you wouldn't see the tons of people we do see doing it, thats also why you don't see hordes of pilots up at 20,000 feet fighting you see them on the deck, have you ever fought way up there?
Its not like fighting on the deck. For starters your opponents tend to be very smart, skilled, and nasty opponents you make a wrong move and you usually die, the air is much thinner you don't make aggressive maneuvers its all about reading your opponent and making a good maneuver which gives you advantage or better you put you into his lead without loading your airframe or throwing away speed, most smart Energy fighters go up instead of down, they disengage when they lose advantage, and they generally don't go around solo and if they do its strictly one pass haul ass, its boring for most people its like playing chess in the skies. There is No drama up there unless you are smart and skilled enough to make it into one, most just get up there get fixated or too aggressive and get themselves killed quickly,
Up there its just business your there to kill em if you can't you get the heck out and try to stay alive to come back in 10-20 mins above them to try again, its smart and its effective, I usually fly for over an hour I usually come back out of fuel instead of out of ammo, I don't lead flights much any more because nobody wants to fly the way I do aside from my squad mates and they don't play much anymore, it used to be fun we used to run into Flights up there now your lucky to find a pair, once in a while you'll see a flight but hardly the large ongoing engagements we did 2 years ago, then add to that with the new graphics overhaul they either increased the clouds alot more, or they added a fog which really makes spotting distant contacts a chore you got to plaster your face against the monitor to be certain thats a con and if it 2-4k feet altitude difference you'll never see em, thats not exactly a good setup for operating as flights where you want to be making earlier acquisition, turning or bracketing for interception etc. You just can't use the kind of tactics in the game we tried to employ years ago, the Air war just changed, we're all kinda hoping it changes back into something that is more fun for us again, until then most are playing IL2 unfortunately...
... sure there are other contributing factors to why there is Air Quank and why the Airwar is such a mess, but we are and will always be the driving force behind how this game gets played I'm afraid.
Thats my main point of it all. Its not that the game is terribly broke imo, sure its got plenty of flaws and things which can and should be improved upon, but its how we choose to play the game that really brings out the issues in my opinion.
just bumping this thread cause i like the OP.. so shoot me
Nice post!
But about the players in Europe.. Im on the edge of subscribing to this game.. but...
I read I can expect Much less battles during European Times.. is this true.. ? And when do the Americans join? > 19:00GMT+1 ?
That is no longer true. There are good battles during most times now since Attack Objectives were adedd back in december. There will also finally be a European release of the game this summer. The game has NEVER been released in a retail form in Europe to this point.
Have Fun!
Generallieutenant Pruitt, Retired GHC
1st Lithuanian Brigade "Iron Wolves"
Ah good to hear, Thanks
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Life is too short to play bad games.
Patience and real time? I am only a troll and never intend to play the game. I am a fan of game based turn systems for many good reasons, and now, you get me laughing pretty bad!
But reading that someone need patience in a real time game, a game that lack the patience to go game based turn, well, that is hilarious!
Patience in real time = lame excuse to favorised peoples who are not worthy of been at the TOP IMO.
Go game based turn if you want to talk about patience...real time and patience? LOL I will NEVER even consider those 2 words in the same sentence seriously!
At best patience(and the virtues coming with, like strategies and profound thinking) in a real time game could be like a strenght contest for 10 years old kids!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Anofalye,
You are entitled to your opinions, but i speak for many of my fellow wwiiol players when i say that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in this case.
yeah i wonder how long he would survive without patience, thats not a rambo game...you have to watch your enemy cause you die very easy in this game if you have no patience, thats no a lame excuse thats a part of the game and important to survive and succed
did you ever play this game or how do you come to this conclusion ?
The patient player in ww2ol has a kill ratio > 1
The impatient player is stat food for the rest of us.
being impantient is the differance between blowing a FB or getting a Sherman/P4G to welcome you with aiming turret
WWII Online is more a WWII simulator then a game. It is close to reality in the aspect that you is as vulnerable as in reality, and the game world is as big as the reality. The gameworld is western Europe scaled 1:2. It is a gigantic 3D-world, comparable to now other game I ever heard about. Major difference is that you get second chance after you "died". But no many likes to die every 15-30 second, not even in a game. Hence you have to have great patience to be able to stay alive. There is a word for it, namely "combat situation awareness".
Second reason for patience. To be able to take a town must the attack be coordinated and well planned. It means to set up recon around the target, create air supperiority over and around the target and uphold the air superiority for the next couple of hours, cut off the supply lines by setting up ambushes at possible supply routes.
Then must the infantry sweap the the target's perimeter from enemy Anti-tank guns so it will be little safer for the waiting Armour to enter the surroundings of the target, may it be a small village with a single Armybase or a large ciy with three or even four Armybases.
First then can the real attack begin. And an attack can take hours before it is settled if it is a small target. The bigger targets like Antwerp, Brussels, Luxemburg et al can take days before they falls or the attackers withdraws.
Normally does it take at least another hour or more to even start to enter the target. (You don't want to rush in to the town with your armour and get ambushed 30 seconds later.) And to be victorious must you show even more patience by up hold the recon, the air superiority, the ambushing groups by the supply routes, and keeping the target under pressure so the defenders can be attriated efficiently. That is what settles the battle. Who is attriated first, and who is able to send forward resupply faster then the other side.
In short, it not only demands lots of patience but also lots of cooperation and communication.
If you trie WWII Online for a few days am I convinced you will withdraw your ignorant comment Anofalye.