Originally posted by Anaxsus I never wondered why WoW was so popular. What you read in this thread is all true; but only in regard to the mechanics of the game. It's graphicly pleasing and has a wealth of content superior to any other MMO. These are fine points, buy really, you could say the same for nearly any other game in the history of gaming; from the earliest Commodore64 game to the latest console incarnation on DvD. What sets an MMO appart isn't the graphics or the content. It's that you are invited to become part of an online community of gamers to conqure goals and content with. Therein lies the point as to why 'WoW sucks.' It isn't that WoW sucks at all. Quite the contrary, it's that Blizzard has done very little to nothing to police the game's community and implement changes that appeal to the general population. If Blizzard were a more ethical business, every $15 per month would be treated equal. But, they're not, and it hasn't. Consider StarCraft II billed to have the same 3 races as the original only to be released with a single race and the promise of having to spend more money to aquire the other 2 in expansions. Consider the WoW expansions billed to have content that was not released with the expansion but patched in a year or more later. This same unconcern for truth has plagued and degraded Blizzard, and by extension, WoW in that what they say and what they do are rarely the same. The latest info I find states Blizzard has sold 4.7 million coppies of the Cataclysm expansion. This is only 39.2% of the reported 12 million players to have experiences WoW. From a business perspective, the ultimate goal of any business large or small is to retain your customer base. In terms of P2P MMO's, the measure is the continued recurring subscriptions. From a scholastic perspective, 39.2% is an "F". It hardly matters to point fingers and state blame, but it was always Blizzard's responsibility to police the community. The loss of a few accounts to retain the many, or the lack thereof, has longlasting, long term ramifications. Trolling, epeen, posturing, immorality, hate speak, the list goes on. One thing is clear. What was once the helpful, teamplayer majority has become the minority getting smaller with each moment, and what players think is so very great about WoW measures as little more than weapons-of-mass-distraction from the truth. A great MMO isn't measured in the quality of the product nearly as much as it is measuerd in the quality of it's community. WoW doesn't suck. The hiddious, immoral players never policed by Blizzard make the game suck. Don't believe me? Wait a few minutes. I think I hear the trolls comming now.
That 4.7 million copies of the game is one month after release of Cataclysm, and doesn't include mainland China. It's also the most game sales in a single month by a single game ever. It exceeds the speed of the previous best seller...wait for it ... the Lich King expansion. Yet during the Lich King expansion they somehow managed to increase their player base by about a half million people. You can try to put a negative spin on Blizzard selling about a quarter billion dollars worth of games in a month, but I'm not sure how you can actually believe it.
The only other thing I'll comment on is that $15 a month being treated equally. If 1 player who pays $15 a month wants something, and 2 million players who pay $15 a month want something else, you're saying Blizzard has an ethical responsibility to put in what the single player wants? Blizzard does exactly what every single other game developer would do, bar none. They put in what the 2 million players want. They have no ethical responsibility to the single player. That single player is playing because they want to and they can leave at any time. Substitute 10,000 players for the single player and it's the same thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I never wondered why WoW was so popular. What you read in this thread is all true; but only in regard to the mechanics of the game. It's graphicly pleasing and has a wealth of content superior to any other MMO. These are fine points, buy really, you could say the same for nearly any other game in the history of gaming; from the earliest Commodore64 game to the latest console incarnation on DvD.
What sets an MMO appart isn't the graphics or the content. It's that you are invited to become part of an online community of gamers to conqure goals and content with. Therein lies the point as to why 'WoW sucks.' It isn't that WoW sucks at all. Quite the contrary, it's that Blizzard has done very little to nothing to police the game's community and implement changes that appeal to the general population. If Blizzard were a more ethical business, every $15 per month would be treated equal. But, they're not, and it hasn't. Consider StarCraft II billed to have the same 3 races as the original only to be released with a single race and the promise of having to spend more money to aquire the other 2 in expansions. Consider the WoW expansions billed to have content that was not released with the expansion but patched in a year or more later. This same unconcern for truth has plagued and degraded Blizzard, and by extension, WoW in that what they say and what they do are rarely the same.
The latest info I find states Blizzard has sold 4.7 million coppies of the Cataclysm expansion. This is only 39.2% of the reported 12 million players to have experiences WoW. From a business perspective, the ultimate goal of any business large or small is to retain your customer base. In terms of P2P MMO's, the measure is the continued recurring subscriptions. From a scholastic perspective, 39.2% is an "F".
It hardly matters to point fingers and state blame, but it was always Blizzard's responsibility to police the community. The loss of a few accounts to retain the many, or the lack thereof, has longlasting, long term ramifications. Trolling, epeen, posturing, immorality, hate speak, the list goes on. One thing is clear. What was once the helpful, teamplayer majority has become the minority getting smaller with each moment, and what players think is so very great about WoW measures as little more than weapons-of-mass-distraction from the truth.
A great MMO isn't measured in the quality of the product nearly as much as it is measuerd in the quality of it's community. WoW doesn't suck. The hiddious, immoral players never policed by Blizzard make the game suck. Don't believe me? Wait a few minutes. I think I hear the trolls comming now.
Your argument misrepresents that data.
With Starcraft 2 it was announced a long time before release that only the human single player campaign would be included but all three races would be playable in multiplayer. That's what was sold and that's what people bought. They never really tried to hide the fact that there would be two more games released with the rest of the campaigns. I would prefer all threee campaigns in a single game but in the end I got my money's worth out of the first game so it was quite fair to me as a customer.
People ranting abotu WoW's 12 million players are quick to point out that a major chunk of that is in China. China is only now gettign the WotLK expansion so they do not have a chance to buy Cataclysm yet. So 4.7 million sales is quite a lot for NA and Europe sales only.
I agree. 4.7 million *is* a lot. Why wasn't it 7.4 million? Simply because the communtiy went unchecked over the years and has degraded to a system that rewards immorality. You are all welcome to it if that's your thing. And if that is your thing, how very sad for you that you didn't see WoW when it was truly a great game because of the community. That was my point. Obviously, you missed it.
Originally posted by Anaxsus LOL ... see? I agree. 4.7 million *is* a lot. Why wasn't it 7.4 million? Simply because the communtiy went unchecked over the years and has degraded to a system that rewards immorality. You are all welcome to it if that's your thing. And if that is your thing, how very sad for you that you didn't see WoW when it was truly a great game because of the community. That was my point. Obviously, you missed it.
The system rewards immorality? Seriously?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're talking about something like Blizzard figuring out what the majority of their player base wants and then feeding it to them? Oh wait, no, no, no, that's not it. You had a level 19 twink and you're still angry that the battlegrounds dried up for you because almost nobody else wanted to actually play the game that way? Maybe you had a warrior tank and you're angry now that you'd actually have to work at tanking? Or is it...you don't even play the game and are not really sure what you're angry about.
And no, I don't play the game. I just don't like nebulous arguments, especially when people start talking about morality and video games. Most especially when they start trying to apply morality when comparing games to each other. i.e. WoW/Blizzard is somehow immoral compared to any other MMORPG/Developer.
*edit* You're still ignoring the past when looking at the sales numbers. The latest expansion is selling faster than all previous expansions. That means Lich King, which out sold all expansions before that, sold more than any other expansion and Cataclysm is selling faster. It's doing better, not worse.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Nope, I never had a twink. Out on a limb? Ya, you might want to consider that before it cracks and you hurt yourself. Better yet, stroll on over to the WoW website and sign up for a trial account. Try to find helpful moral players ingame. Get back to me on that.
I sort of am currenlty playing the game, my sub ran out last week and just haven't renewed yet, too many other things going on. The game is just as moral, or amoral as every other game on the market. When I do play I have no problem finding friendly, helpfull people who are nice to me, seem nice to others and want to help.
Not sure where you are getting the whole, the game rewards amorality from. Odd.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Anaxsus Nope, I never had a twink. Out on a limb? Ya, you might want to consider that before it cracks and you hurt yourself. Better yet, stroll on over to the WoW website and sign up for a trial account. Try to find helpful moral players ingame. Get back to me on that.
Where does this stuff come from? Out on a limb? Really? Really? I am seriously going to hurt myself from the limb I'm on? Talking about the morality of players in World of Warcraft? That would be worth it just to see it happen. Seriously.
I spent three and a half years playing and met many very nice people. They could have been very amoral...I would have no idea because we were playing a video game. In the context of the video game they were as nice and moral as anyone I've met. They could have been serial killers in real life. There's no way to tell. I'm pretty sure the video game environment we were playing in lacked a great many social queues to get a handle on their morality.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
[Cut around 300 lines of terrible whining and then ... this: ]
I am sympathetic towards these types of players, but the fact is, that Rift is a wonderfully polished game that should be given a chance. It's not a clone ... it's Rift.
Yep, we get it. Please join the others who came along these last 6 years to recruit WOW players on a forum.
I hope you do know though that mmorpg.com has 9 Wow fans total.
The other 11.999.991 are not registred. Try the official WOW forums: I wish you the best of luck.
Yes, RIFT made it clear it's not WoW, especially with that commercial "We're not on Azeroth anymore". Heh.
Truth be said while few people here currently play WoW, there are many just played it until they burned out and became haters, like lust for power and joining the dark side, like the OP.
Give it break OP...this games been out for years so why start a post asking what WOW offers.
Troll comes to mind.
I dont play WOW anymore (did for a year maybe) And theres nothing wrong with the game so stop being a WOW hater and grow up. What a waste of forum space.
"The bosses are inside instances, instead of outside. Under no circumstance do you need to call your Guildies at 3 A.M. to log on before another Guild pulled it."
oh my... not to mention the rest. I'll just stick with this one.
Hope you will enjoy life a bit before you get old and die.
This thread is basically response to a lot of people regarding Rift, but I thought it better suited for the General Discussion forums. People have been complaining about recent MMORPGs like Rift, stating that the game is boring and lackluster compared to say...World of Warcraft.
Really, though? What does World of Warcraft offer that makes it so unique that we should have to play it for the rest of our lives? Let's take a look at some arguments I've come across recently against recent titles.
Questing
"I hate questing. It's bland and redundant!"
Remember back in the old days, in typical MMORPGs such as FFXI, when you were required to grind mobs for years on end to max out? Questing is basically this, but a boost of EXP at the end with a side of story and loot. Butreally, if you hate questing, don't quest. Grind mobs like the old days, or PVP to gain your levels. Questing is the new standard for grinding in MMOs. What makes World of Warcraft's quests different from any other game? Almost nothing. Cataclysm brought on some nice quests, like in Twilight Highlands when you ride a dragon to fight Deathwing's minions while him and Alextrasza fight atop a mountain peak. Pretty awesome, and has some nice dialog, but you are doing the quest on a vehicle, which is widely hated by the WoW community for its sheer stupidity and annoyance.
As far as story progression goes, Guild Wars has always done this brilliantly, whereas it's taken World of Warcraft six years to even come close with their much-butchered lore.
Grind
"But there's so much grind in <insert game!>"
Really? There is no grind in World of Warcraft? Let me see: Grinding quests to max level. Grinding dungeons for reputation and gear. Grinding mobs for crafting materials. Grinding PvP for better gear so you can stand a remote chance against other imbalanced classes. Oh, you stopped playing for several months? Your gear is now worthless, have fun grinding.
Developers & Staff
"The developers are silent and the staff don't communicate with their base of players."
I would really love to hear anyone give one example of a time where Blizzard didn't fall under this criteria. Fortunately for Rift, they have been extremely fast to fix anything we've reported, have a great sense of humor, and are quite involved with us. But my point is that no game could ever possibly have staff as useless as Blizzard/Activision.
End-Game Content
"This game has no end-game content."
When you look at it from another angle, World of Warcraft doesn't either. You can max out your level in...six hours, let's say? End-game in Warcraft is comprised of grinding for gear. When you're done grinding for gear (which takes up entirely ALL of your time), you have babysitting to look forward to. You looked up the fights, you're in adequate gear. Your'e ready to start raiding! Guess what? World of Warcraft gamers are as stupid as they come. You will have to babysit them for months. Possibly years, if you want to get anything done. End-game content in World of Warcraft only goes as far as your group/Guild member's intelligence allows. Believe me, as someone who has been with the game since before release, I know just how high that capability is.
But let's assume for a second that you are actually successful in raiding. Didn't get that piece of armor you were looking for? Perhaps a Guildie still needs something? I hope you enjoy the grind. This game doesn't offer anything in its end-game we can't find in another game.
PvP
"If you hate PvE so much, then start PvPing, guy! Yeah!"
First of all, let me say that I've checked out Blizzard's headquarters, and it turns out, they have absolutely no idea what the words "class balance" even means. Plate armor, high burst (one/two-shot) DPS? Okay! Let's just finish up and give them some CC, shields, a pet, and spammable heals. Sure, these classes are killable, but in the hands of a player with half a brain, they're pretty much unstoppable.
Open world PvP does not exist in World of Warcraft. I'd know, because back before Warsong Gulch, that's all anybody ever did. But now, Battlegrounds and Arenas have invaded. Inside, you are greeted by the most ignorant, Xbox Live style kids you will ever see in video gaming. These people are incredibly retarded, and have no idea how to work together as a team nor will they ever be willing to. But why are you PvPing in the first place? For gear, so you can start having fun in world PvP. But you see, this is a never-ending process due to the rate at which new sets of gear enter the fray.
Crafting
"Crafting is not fun in <insert game> and serves no purpose."
Warcraft has useful crafting, does it? Alchemy, Jewelcrafting, Cooking and Enchanting are the most useful because there's always a constant need for it. But what about Blacksmithing, Engineering, First Aid, Inscription, Leatherworking and Tailoring? Totally pointless to have. Almost everything you craft is vendor trash to raise your profession level. The items that aren't, are replaced automatically when you max out and start running dungeons. Completely pointless to invest your time into.
The point? No profession in any game can get any more useless than in World of Warcraft.
Difficulty
"Cataclysm made the game so hard. Only hardcore people like me can play it now!"
It's true Cataclysm changed the way WoW plays, but in no way is it actually difficult as far as a video game is concerned. If you have the gear, and you know the strategies, you win, unless you're with stupid people which is 95% of the time. Healing is regarded as the hardest job in Cataclysm, but I healed the game since 2004, and I can confidently say that it's now the easiest job in the world. When people take damage, it's now distributed at a slower and steadier pace, compared to the break-neck, split-second speed we encountered before in Classic, BC, and Wrath. If you hesitated for a second, you wiped the raid. You had a lot less time to react to situations if you weren't anticipating what was about to happen.
But World of Warcraft has always been an easy-mode casual MMORPG. It's fun, but MIND-NUMBINGLY EASY to play. Anyone who thinks otherwise...well, let me bring up some points.
In Warcraft:
You can't starve to death if you didn't eat enough.
Raid bosses cannot be seen patrolling starter areas, killing anyone and everyone they see.
Your corpse does not decay along with all of your gear if you can't get to it.
You cannot loot a player's gear if you kill them in PvP combat.
The bosses are inside instances, instead of outside. Under no circumstance do you need to call your Guildies at 3 A.M. to log on before another Guild pulled it.
You have the comfort of a flying mount. Once you are on this thing, all your troubles are far beneath you. Just forget about all the risks the world had to offer.
Credit for the kill goes to the person who tapped the mob, rather than whoever did the most damage. World first 85? Nice try, Athene.
Roles are practically non-existent. There is no difference between one DPS and another. Crowd control? Hahaha, no, I'm sorry, we don't have classes specifically designed to pull mobs. We don't have specified buffers, debuffers, CC, healers, tanks, and DPS. Blizzard thought that everybody should just be able to do it! Yay!
MY POINT BEING: World of Warcraft does not have anything in terms of difficulty, especially compared to recent MMOs on the market.
Feel free to add to my list of points/arguments if you have any.
It's a fun game, and I enjoyed it for many years (though it's never been as good as Classic), but this game offers nothing fun we can't have in other games, ESPECIALLY Rift: Planes of Telara, which is the most recent game people have been complaining about (this of course referring only to the trolls. Most feedback has been excellent). I'm not entirely satisfied with the way MMORPGs are headed. I could use a little more option in my games, and a little less restriction. But Rift has done such a great job of their class (soul) system, allowing for your creativity and personal play style to take over, allowing for a truly unique class you can be proud of. Rift takes what WoW has done, and shapes it into something new (sound familiar given WoW's case with EverQuest?).
The people complaining are either those who don't know what they want, or are in a state of frustration that developers aren't meeting their standards for games. I am sympathetic towards these types of players, but the fact is, that Rift is a wonderfully polished game that should be given a chance. It's not a clone ... it's Rift.
You could have saved yourself all that time and effort and just posted "WOW Sucks".
But then you would've grouped ironfungus with all the previous posters who simply wrote "WoW Sucks" without givng a rhyme or reason for their statement. Is that not correct, Sevitoth?
WOw is easy to to play and runs on most all computers made. It's target audience is young people (5 to 15)
For their target audience its a great game.
Why some people get their panties in such a wad over it that they think they have to bad mouth it is very immature. And a lot of these same people have the nerve to call WOW players immature in their same immature posts.
It's a game. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad if someone plays it and likes it?
Why does it hurt your feelings so bad if someone plays it and likes it?
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all if others like the game. The issue is the quality of players in the game, and I don't mean how good they are at knocking down bosses. The WoW community used to be a great community to game with. Now, the community is overrun with players who will screw eachother to get that one-up and brag about it, use the Dungeon Finder Tool to knock down a boss and bail if they get their drop (or don't get the drop), etc. There are still a few nice players in-game; very, very, very, few. The odds of you meeting one of them is not very likely.
I'm not amazed by any of this backlash. Wow used to be a game everyone could enjoy and, more often than not, did. We played for years without the need for a Dungeon Finder because there were so many cool, helpful players to go with. Now, "Lord of the Flies" reigns supreme. There aren't enough nice players to game with.
No, no, dear trolls. I'm not a WoW hater. I love WoW. What I hate are the players who ruined the game for everyone else; as if it was their right to do so. And through all of this, where was Bliz? They were slack back in an expensive office chair counting coin. They ignored policing the community to keep the game open and safe to enjoy for everyone. And, what's the best response in defense of Blizzard and the WoW community? Trolls. Sorry for laughing, but you guys are too easy to draw out and make my point; well, with one exception. Within this plethora of spam that reponded to my post, there was only 1 thoughtful, credible response. The ratio is akin to exactly what you will find in WoW: 1% moral:99% asshat. There was a time when those numbers were reversed.
So, who's argument is supported? Let's see.
WoW ranks 23rd on the list presented on this site behind other games that pale by comparison in game mechanics. (Yes, I've played most of them to find a better place to game than in WoW).
MMORPG.com 2010 Awards:
Favorite MMO Company - ArenaNet - Blizzard not even nominated
New Game of the Year - None of the above - Cataclysm not even nominated
Most Innovative Game - EvE Online - WoW placed 3rd
Most Anticipated Game - Guild Wars 2
Biggest Disappontment - 2010 in general - Cataclysm Launched Dec. 7th, 2010, ergo disappointment not to mention a disgrace to every life lost on Dec. 7th, 1941. Oh wait, most WoW players were likely too frothing at the mouth to hit it and be realm first 85 to remember it was Pearl Harbor Day.
Let's revisit the point at hand. A great MMO isn't great because of the mechanics of the game. A great MMO is great because of the community with whom you are invited to play with and the standards of the company who have a responsibility to protect the investment of their customers. WoW does not suck in it's game mechanics. The WoW community sucks, so by extension, WoW as a game sucks; and the votes show it. So, tell me trolls. If the WoW community is so great, why is it that WoW and Blizzard rank so low? Perhaps because there's merit to my point? Goodness, what a tragedy that would be.
Why does it hurt your feelings so bad if someone plays it and likes it?
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all if others like the game. The issue is the quality of players in the game, and I don't mean how good they are at knocking down bosses. The WoW community used to be a great community to game with. Now, the community is overrun with players who will screw eachother to get that one-up and brag about it, use the Dungeon Finder Tool to knock down a boss and bail if they get their drop (or don't get the drop), etc. There are still a few nice players in-game; very, very, very, few. The odds of you meeting one of them is not very likely.
I'm not amazed by any of this backlash. Wow used to be a game everyone could enjoy and, more often than not, did. We played for years without the need for a Dungeon Finder because there were so many cool, helpful players to go with. Now, "Lord of the Flies" reigns supreme. There aren't enough nice players to game with.
No, no, dear trolls. I'm not a WoW hater. I love WoW. What I hate are the players who ruined the game for everyone else; as if it was their right to do so. And through all of this, where was Bliz? They were slack back in an expensive office chair counting coin. They ignored policing the community to keep the game open and safe to enjoy for everyone. And, what's the best response in defense of Blizzard and the WoW community? Trolls. Sorry for laughing, but you guys are too easy to draw out and make my point; well, with one exception. Within this plethora of spam that reponded to my post, there was only 1 thoughtful, credible response. The ratio is akin to exactly what you will find in WoW: 1% moral:99% asshat. There was a time when those numbers were reversed.
So, who's argument is supported? Let's see.
WoW ranks 23rd on the list presented on this site behind other games that pale by comparison in game mechanics. (Yes, I've played most of them to find a better place to game than in WoW).
MMORPG.com 2010 Awards:
Favorite MMO Company - ArenaNet - Blizzard not even nominated
New Game of the Year - None of the above - Cataclysm not even nominated
Most Innovative Game - EvE Online - WoW placed 3rd
Most Anticipated Game - Guild Wars 2
Biggest Disappontment - 2010 in general - Cataclysm Launched Dec. 7th, 2010, ergo disappointment not to mention a disgrace to every life lost on Dec. 7th, 1941. Oh wait, most WoW players were likely too frothing at the mouth to hit it and be realm first 85 to remember it was Pearl Harbor Day.
Let's revisit the point at hand. A great MMO isn't great because of the mechanics of the game. A great MMO is great because of the community with whom you are invited to play with and the standards of the company who have a responsibility to protect the investment of their customers. WoW does not suck in it's game mechanics. The WoW community sucks, so by extension, WoW as a game sucks; and the votes show it. So, tell me trolls. If the WoW community is so great, why is it that WoW and Blizzard rank so low? Perhaps because there's merit to my point? Goodness, what a tragedy that would be.
I agree with you that the community is bad but it is not that bad. I only talked to my guild mates and they were okay. People just behave differently when they interact with guildies. I am sure a lot of those nice people I was chatting in /gchat were asshats in their random dungeon runs etc. But it's not as bad you picture it and I've found this to be true for 99% of MMOs. The genre itself is full of asshats.
Cata was actually the only MMO I've seen that was nominated for an overall game of the year by game websites which are not MMO focused like mmorpg.com. That category where an MMO has to fight against big games like Mass Effect 2, CoD, Battlefield, Red Dead Redemption etc. It never stood a chance against the forementioned games but it was nominated nonetheless. No MMO stands a chance against Mass Effect 2
Also mmmorpg.com is the site where everybody hates WoW. So these results are not surprising.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
mmorpg.com is not the site where everyone hates WoW. It's the site where people come to find alternatives. Since WoW has the most subscribers, most people looking for alternatives will come from it.
I think the OP has some few valid points but generally is being unfair with the way he presents WoW. WoW is like an old time boxer, he's not pretty and he maybe shaking a bit, but he's proven his worth. All the new contenders may look prettier, but they need to enter the gauntlet to prove themselves first.
I think it is time that mmorpg.com editors think about the gamers first and the companies second.
It is not because you think your audiance are the bored ones that you should promote new games that simply can't deliver.
At the moment everything that is even remotely coming up on a scrap of paper with 3 or 4 keywords gets promoted. Games get free hype in editorials just to say there was no news lately.
This is not how things work out. You can make a fortune out of hate, but it never produces something constructive.
So the question can be reversed? What does mmorpg.com really offer besides some pissing on the market leader and having some nice forum PvP.
Ok that last one sells, but is that really the offer?
A very simplistic playstyle. Very easy learning curve.
Charming antiquated graphics.
Lots of things to see and do.
Plays on an older pc.
Cons:
Hamster wheel grinding.
Horrible community.
Unimaginative direction.
Got to throw in the community again. It is filled with the type of people that think pressing 3 buttons and moving left and right is the most amazing skill that not a lot of people can do. The sad thing is, there are actually a lot of people that can't do something that simple.
Right, but the things offered by WoW that keep people playing are NO DIFFERENT from other MMOs on the market. The only difference may be that people have invested too much time into the game to consider playing something else.
I have to agree with that assessment. The industry seems to have been in a six year rut. With the odd exception from some indie companies modern MMO descriptions sound like the start of the old Dragnet TV show. "We bring you the story of our new MMORPG, this story is true, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent."
Why we MMO players keep allowing these companies to make us pay them to jump through the same tired hoops is beyond me. In my opinion Current Wow and many of all the other games out right now should just be renamed "Impulse Control Problem: The Quest For Input Stimuli"
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I had a few gripes with the op's "assessment" of WoW pvp especially the idea that there is no open pvp.
Have you guys played this game? Go to the tol barad daily quests and open pvp all day if you'd like, ANY daily quest zone in WoW has always had open pvp. I've spent 3+ hours there was just pvping in the tol barad daily quest zone, in wrath it was the ulduar giants (or whatever they were called. In BC it was that isle with all the daily quests, ALL had open pvp 24/7 if you wanted it.
You can say what you will about WoW, but their pvp is the best in any mmo i've played. They offer many aspects of pvp that caters to any pvper. I'm a fan of competitive pvp, my roots in online gaming come from games like counter strike where it was all about 2v2 3v3 5v5. Needless to say I am a fan of WoW arenas, its the most skillful/competitive thing you can do in ANY mmo out there right now. Everyone in arenas is on equal playing fields and strategy and skill are really tested. People who are serious about arenas don't care about the loot, its the competitive feeling.
- They also added rated bgs, which is also very fun as a pvper.
knock WoW for whatever you like, but pvp in this game is #1 in my opinion.
Like most people who frequent this site, I've played a few MMO games. I still do play a few. I just came back to WOW after I swore I would never, ever, EVER play it again!!!!!!!!!!
But I did come back. I have liked the game so far, it has in general has improved. It isn't visually stunning or difficult to play. I don't want to have to have a doctorate to play, I just want to have fun. WOW does fit the bill.
As far as the people who play it: They aren't any better or worse than anyone I've met in any other game. There are jerks, and there are really nice people. I usually find the nice people are in my guild, but that's just one place. The cross-server grouping is great. If you meet a jerk, you don't have to group them again (usually). I am not 15 either, but my youngest kid is... she played WOW when I did when it first came out (it was pretty funny actually!). I never worried about people in WOW talking to her or harassing her, it wasn't an issue. I can honestly say the worst people I met were the ones I had to do the end-game stuff with. Be they guild mates or PUGs people are the most brutal when the big boss loot rolls are going down. No one like to lose a bad-ass shield to the Mage or a wand to the Deathknight, it gets scary how greed takes over. I will be very wary and skeptical of grouping at 85 to do the "big-stuff", I just don't enjoy it when the bickering begins. I've seen it other places than WOW too.
My main point: People are the same in every game. Find the ones you like and group with them. /ingnore the rest.
Comments
Did you really just diss wow questing? WoW basically set the standard for questing. I hate the game, but i am not gonna knocks its strengths.
That 4.7 million copies of the game is one month after release of Cataclysm, and doesn't include mainland China. It's also the most game sales in a single month by a single game ever. It exceeds the speed of the previous best seller...wait for it ... the Lich King expansion. Yet during the Lich King expansion they somehow managed to increase their player base by about a half million people. You can try to put a negative spin on Blizzard selling about a quarter billion dollars worth of games in a month, but I'm not sure how you can actually believe it.
The only other thing I'll comment on is that $15 a month being treated equally. If 1 player who pays $15 a month wants something, and 2 million players who pay $15 a month want something else, you're saying Blizzard has an ethical responsibility to put in what the single player wants? Blizzard does exactly what every single other game developer would do, bar none. They put in what the 2 million players want. They have no ethical responsibility to the single player. That single player is playing because they want to and they can leave at any time. Substitute 10,000 players for the single player and it's the same thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your argument misrepresents that data.
With Starcraft 2 it was announced a long time before release that only the human single player campaign would be included but all three races would be playable in multiplayer. That's what was sold and that's what people bought. They never really tried to hide the fact that there would be two more games released with the rest of the campaigns. I would prefer all threee campaigns in a single game but in the end I got my money's worth out of the first game so it was quite fair to me as a customer.
People ranting abotu WoW's 12 million players are quick to point out that a major chunk of that is in China. China is only now gettign the WotLK expansion so they do not have a chance to buy Cataclysm yet. So 4.7 million sales is quite a lot for NA and Europe sales only.
LOL ... see?
I agree. 4.7 million *is* a lot. Why wasn't it 7.4 million? Simply because the communtiy went unchecked over the years and has degraded to a system that rewards immorality. You are all welcome to it if that's your thing. And if that is your thing, how very sad for you that you didn't see WoW when it was truly a great game because of the community. That was my point. Obviously, you missed it.
The system rewards immorality? Seriously?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're talking about something like Blizzard figuring out what the majority of their player base wants and then feeding it to them? Oh wait, no, no, no, that's not it. You had a level 19 twink and you're still angry that the battlegrounds dried up for you because almost nobody else wanted to actually play the game that way? Maybe you had a warrior tank and you're angry now that you'd actually have to work at tanking? Or is it...you don't even play the game and are not really sure what you're angry about.
And no, I don't play the game. I just don't like nebulous arguments, especially when people start talking about morality and video games. Most especially when they start trying to apply morality when comparing games to each other. i.e. WoW/Blizzard is somehow immoral compared to any other MMORPG/Developer.
*edit* You're still ignoring the past when looking at the sales numbers. The latest expansion is selling faster than all previous expansions. That means Lich King, which out sold all expansions before that, sold more than any other expansion and Cataclysm is selling faster. It's doing better, not worse.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Nope, I never had a twink. Out on a limb? Ya, you might want to consider that before it cracks and you hurt yourself. Better yet, stroll on over to the WoW website and sign up for a trial account. Try to find helpful moral players ingame. Get back to me on that.
I sort of am currenlty playing the game, my sub ran out last week and just haven't renewed yet, too many other things going on. The game is just as moral, or amoral as every other game on the market. When I do play I have no problem finding friendly, helpfull people who are nice to me, seem nice to others and want to help.
Not sure where you are getting the whole, the game rewards amorality from. Odd.
Venge Sunsoar
Where does this stuff come from? Out on a limb? Really? Really? I am seriously going to hurt myself from the limb I'm on? Talking about the morality of players in World of Warcraft? That would be worth it just to see it happen. Seriously.
I spent three and a half years playing and met many very nice people. They could have been very amoral...I would have no idea because we were playing a video game. In the context of the video game they were as nice and moral as anyone I've met. They could have been serial killers in real life. There's no way to tell. I'm pretty sure the video game environment we were playing in lacked a great many social queues to get a handle on their morality.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes, RIFT made it clear it's not WoW, especially with that commercial "We're not on Azeroth anymore". Heh.
Truth be said while few people here currently play WoW, there are many just played it until they burned out and became haters, like lust for power and joining the dark side, like the OP.
Give it break OP...this games been out for years so why start a post asking what WOW offers.
Troll comes to mind.
I dont play WOW anymore (did for a year maybe) And theres nothing wrong with the game so stop being a WOW hater and grow up. What a waste of forum space.
"The bosses are inside instances, instead of outside. Under no circumstance do you need to call your Guildies at 3 A.M. to log on before another Guild pulled it."
oh my... not to mention the rest. I'll just stick with this one.
Hope you will enjoy life a bit before you get old and die.
Good luck mate!
But then you would've grouped ironfungus with all the previous posters who simply wrote "WoW Sucks" without givng a rhyme or reason for their statement. Is that not correct, Sevitoth?
WOw is easy to to play and runs on most all computers made. It's target audience is young people (5 to 15)
For their target audience its a great game.
Why some people get their panties in such a wad over it that they think they have to bad mouth it is very immature. And a lot of these same people have the nerve to call WOW players immature in their same immature posts.
It's a game. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad if someone plays it and likes it?
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all if others like the game. The issue is the quality of players in the game, and I don't mean how good they are at knocking down bosses. The WoW community used to be a great community to game with. Now, the community is overrun with players who will screw eachother to get that one-up and brag about it, use the Dungeon Finder Tool to knock down a boss and bail if they get their drop (or don't get the drop), etc. There are still a few nice players in-game; very, very, very, few. The odds of you meeting one of them is not very likely.
I'm not amazed by any of this backlash. Wow used to be a game everyone could enjoy and, more often than not, did. We played for years without the need for a Dungeon Finder because there were so many cool, helpful players to go with. Now, "Lord of the Flies" reigns supreme. There aren't enough nice players to game with.
No, no, dear trolls. I'm not a WoW hater. I love WoW. What I hate are the players who ruined the game for everyone else; as if it was their right to do so. And through all of this, where was Bliz? They were slack back in an expensive office chair counting coin. They ignored policing the community to keep the game open and safe to enjoy for everyone. And, what's the best response in defense of Blizzard and the WoW community? Trolls. Sorry for laughing, but you guys are too easy to draw out and make my point; well, with one exception. Within this plethora of spam that reponded to my post, there was only 1 thoughtful, credible response. The ratio is akin to exactly what you will find in WoW: 1% moral:99% asshat. There was a time when those numbers were reversed.
So, who's argument is supported? Let's see.
WoW ranks 23rd on the list presented on this site behind other games that pale by comparison in game mechanics. (Yes, I've played most of them to find a better place to game than in WoW).
MMORPG.com 2010 Awards:
Favorite MMO Company - ArenaNet - Blizzard not even nominated
New Game of the Year - None of the above - Cataclysm not even nominated
Most Innovative Game - EvE Online - WoW placed 3rd
Most Anticipated Game - Guild Wars 2
Biggest Disappontment - 2010 in general - Cataclysm Launched Dec. 7th, 2010, ergo disappointment not to mention a disgrace to every life lost on Dec. 7th, 1941. Oh wait, most WoW players were likely too frothing at the mouth to hit it and be realm first 85 to remember it was Pearl Harbor Day.
Let's revisit the point at hand. A great MMO isn't great because of the mechanics of the game. A great MMO is great because of the community with whom you are invited to play with and the standards of the company who have a responsibility to protect the investment of their customers. WoW does not suck in it's game mechanics. The WoW community sucks, so by extension, WoW as a game sucks; and the votes show it. So, tell me trolls. If the WoW community is so great, why is it that WoW and Blizzard rank so low? Perhaps because there's merit to my point? Goodness, what a tragedy that would be.
I agree with you that the community is bad but it is not that bad. I only talked to my guild mates and they were okay. People just behave differently when they interact with guildies. I am sure a lot of those nice people I was chatting in /gchat were asshats in their random dungeon runs etc. But it's not as bad you picture it and I've found this to be true for 99% of MMOs. The genre itself is full of asshats.
Cata was actually the only MMO I've seen that was nominated for an overall game of the year by game websites which are not MMO focused like mmorpg.com. That category where an MMO has to fight against big games like Mass Effect 2, CoD, Battlefield, Red Dead Redemption etc. It never stood a chance against the forementioned games but it was nominated nonetheless. No MMO stands a chance against Mass Effect 2
Also mmmorpg.com is the site where everybody hates WoW. So these results are not surprising.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
mmorpg.com is not the site where everyone hates WoW. It's the site where people come to find alternatives. Since WoW has the most subscribers, most people looking for alternatives will come from it.
I think the OP has some few valid points but generally is being unfair with the way he presents WoW. WoW is like an old time boxer, he's not pretty and he maybe shaking a bit, but he's proven his worth. All the new contenders may look prettier, but they need to enter the gauntlet to prove themselves first.
I think it is time that mmorpg.com editors think about the gamers first and the companies second.
It is not because you think your audiance are the bored ones that you should promote new games that simply can't deliver.
At the moment everything that is even remotely coming up on a scrap of paper with 3 or 4 keywords gets promoted. Games get free hype in editorials just to say there was no news lately.
This is not how things work out. You can make a fortune out of hate, but it never produces something constructive.
So the question can be reversed? What does mmorpg.com really offer besides some pissing on the market leader and having some nice forum PvP.
Ok that last one sells, but is that really the offer?
Alternatives.
(Whether they are good or bad is irrelevant and highly subjective.)
Pros:
A very simplistic playstyle. Very easy learning curve.
Charming antiquated graphics.
Lots of things to see and do.
Plays on an older pc.
Cons:
Hamster wheel grinding.
Horrible community.
Unimaginative direction.
Got to throw in the community again. It is filled with the type of people that think pressing 3 buttons and moving left and right is the most amazing skill that not a lot of people can do. The sad thing is, there are actually a lot of people that can't do something that simple.
I have to agree with that assessment. The industry seems to have been in a six year rut. With the odd exception from some indie companies modern MMO descriptions sound like the start of the old Dragnet TV show. "We bring you the story of our new MMORPG, this story is true, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent."
Why we MMO players keep allowing these companies to make us pay them to jump through the same tired hoops is beyond me. In my opinion Current Wow and many of all the other games out right now should just be renamed "Impulse Control Problem: The Quest For Input Stimuli"
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Some times it is necessary to bring back the reasoning instead of insulting social groups as a whole.
Even forum posts have limits.
I had a few gripes with the op's "assessment" of WoW pvp especially the idea that there is no open pvp.
Have you guys played this game? Go to the tol barad daily quests and open pvp all day if you'd like, ANY daily quest zone in WoW has always had open pvp. I've spent 3+ hours there was just pvping in the tol barad daily quest zone, in wrath it was the ulduar giants (or whatever they were called. In BC it was that isle with all the daily quests, ALL had open pvp 24/7 if you wanted it.
You can say what you will about WoW, but their pvp is the best in any mmo i've played. They offer many aspects of pvp that caters to any pvper. I'm a fan of competitive pvp, my roots in online gaming come from games like counter strike where it was all about 2v2 3v3 5v5. Needless to say I am a fan of WoW arenas, its the most skillful/competitive thing you can do in ANY mmo out there right now. Everyone in arenas is on equal playing fields and strategy and skill are really tested. People who are serious about arenas don't care about the loot, its the competitive feeling.
- They also added rated bgs, which is also very fun as a pvper.
knock WoW for whatever you like, but pvp in this game is #1 in my opinion.
I play WoW, and I think it's a great game, but I find it's pvp to be a joke. If you like pvp you might want to give Guild Wars a try.
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Like most people who frequent this site, I've played a few MMO games. I still do play a few. I just came back to WOW after I swore I would never, ever, EVER play it again!!!!!!!!!!
But I did come back. I have liked the game so far, it has in general has improved. It isn't visually stunning or difficult to play. I don't want to have to have a doctorate to play, I just want to have fun. WOW does fit the bill.
As far as the people who play it: They aren't any better or worse than anyone I've met in any other game. There are jerks, and there are really nice people. I usually find the nice people are in my guild, but that's just one place. The cross-server grouping is great. If you meet a jerk, you don't have to group them again (usually). I am not 15 either, but my youngest kid is... she played WOW when I did when it first came out (it was pretty funny actually!). I never worried about people in WOW talking to her or harassing her, it wasn't an issue. I can honestly say the worst people I met were the ones I had to do the end-game stuff with. Be they guild mates or PUGs people are the most brutal when the big boss loot rolls are going down. No one like to lose a bad-ass shield to the Mage or a wand to the Deathknight, it gets scary how greed takes over. I will be very wary and skeptical of grouping at 85 to do the "big-stuff", I just don't enjoy it when the bickering begins. I've seen it other places than WOW too.
My main point: People are the same in every game. Find the ones you like and group with them. /ingnore the rest.
why is it a joke?
i've played guild wars and didn't like it.