Building first computer, looking for advice

Comments

• Quizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,509

  January 2011

  Not a bad start, but there are a number of changes that I'd make.

  First, unless you picked the combo deal largely because you want Civilization V, I'd go with something else.  A Core i5 2500K is only appropriate if you're going to heavily overclock the processor.  You can do a mild overclock with a Core i5 2500.  That will save you money, and let you get a nice combo deal for an aftermarket cooler like this:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.584454

  The Asus P8P67 Pro motherboard is appropriate if you're going to use any of the features it has not in the non-Pro motherboard. The main such thing is more or less supporting two video cards in CrossFire or SLI.  If you're not, then you might as well get a cheaper motherboard that is mostly equivalent, but loses the multi video card support:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131681

  The power supply is cheap junk.  Don't buy it.  See here, for example:

  http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/11/22/cooler_master_gx_650w_power_supply_review/

  If it has good reviews at New Egg, that's only because the people who might buy that one don't know any better.  So that will break your combo deal with the case.

  A Cooler Master HAF 932 is a nice case.  It's also an expensive case.  You need something like that if you're going to have multiple high end video cards in CrossFire or SLI, but that doesn't fit your budget.  So instead, you might as well save money on a smaller, cheaper case that is still reasonably nice.  Here's a combo deal with the OS, too:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.590988

  You'll still need a power supply, so for a single video card system, try this:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094

  That's a pretty good power supply at a good price.

  If that's the video card you want, then note that you can get nearly the same thing for $15 cheaper:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102913

  Or if it's a reference card you're after, exactly the same thing for $10 cheaper:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161349

  Packaging and warranty service may vary, but the card itself is exactly the same as the one you picked, apart from the sticker on the side of it.

  You don't actually need 8 GB of system memory for gaming purposes.  You might need a lot of memory if you have some unusual needs.  Memory has gotten cheap enough that if you want 8 GB, then on your budget, I won't argue against it too strongly.  But you could also save $40 by going with 4 GB.

  And then there is storage, which is complicated.  Basically, you need to decide whether you're willing to pay for a solid state drive or not.  You know how a lot of times when you ask a computer to do something, you have to sit there and wait a while, and then eventually it does it?  This could be booting a computer, loading programs, zoning in a game, or a lot of other things.  If you had a good solid state drive, then often, you wouldn't have to noticeably wait at all, and even when you did, the waiting time would usually be greatly reduced.  The main exceptions are going through the BIOS (or UEFI, its replacement) at boot, and downloading large amounts of data off of the Internet.

  SSDs usually don't improve frame rates in games, though they do fix hitching problems in certain badly coded games.  Rather, they make nearly everything else you do on a computer except for frame rates in games go much, much faster.  This includes parts of games other than the frame rates, most notably loading the game itself and zoning.

  The problem with solid state drives is the price tag, typically around $2/GB.  Still, even if you need 1 TB of storage, you don't need a 1 TB hard drive.  What some people do is to buy both a small SSD and a large hard drive, and then put the OS and main programs on the SSD, and everything else on the hard drive.  Whatever you run off of the SSD will be fast.  For things like music, movies, or pictures, the speed doesn't matter, so you don't lose anything by having them on a hard drive.

  For example, you could get a 60 GB SSD like this:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226151

  and then also get the hard drive you picked.  If you flinch at the price tag, then compare the price tag of your processor and video card, and consider that apart from frame rates in games, the SSD will make a much bigger difference than the processor or video card for most purposes.

  Or you could get only a hard drive.  A Western Digital Caviar Black is significantly faster than a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12, though also a little more expensive.  Don't get caught up in the sequential read and write speeds that hard drives list, as those don't matter much.  Random reads and writes are the bottleneck.  And that's the problem that SSDs fix.  For example, check here:

  http://www.anandtech.com/show/3681/oczs-vertex-2-special-sauce-sf1200-reviewed/6

  See the WD VelociRaptor down at the bottom of those charts?  That's generally regarded as the fastest consumer hard drive on the market today, and very expensive.  And it's not even competitive with the SSDs.  Yes, longer bars are better.
• rugrato7 Member Posts: 10

  January 2011

  Thanks quiz I was hoping you would respond, you seem to know your stuff.

  The reason for the large case and the 8gb of ram was to keep my options open if I ever decided to do some differnt things in the future. Although I doubt I would ever make use of it.. it is always nice to have it.

  I was worried about that psu.. thx for helping me with that, I had the psu you suggested in my cart for awhile till i decided to change it up.

  I did some research on the video card and it seemed like a great card for the cost, is there a better card in the $250ish range?

  I am looking over your suggestions and adjusting my cart.. will post once I have it finalized for future advice.
• Quizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,509

  January 2011

  If you want a bigger case, it's your money, not mine.  Note that if it's CrossFire or SLI that you have in mind, that means spending extra on the motherboard, power supply, and case, not just paying for the second video card.  That can easily come to an extra $100 just to have the option to go with CrossFire or SLI later.

  That's probably just wasted money if you go that route.  If you want more video performance a year from now, then the sensible thing to do would probably be to replace your card by a "Southern Islands" (AMD) or "Kepler" (Nvidia) card that should be out by then, not to add a second card of whatever you get today.  If the upgrade comes two or three years down the road, then adding a second card of whatever you get today will only be that much worse of an option.

  You could get a decent value on something a little bigger like one of these:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129079

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197

  Either of those Cooler Master cases also have a combo deal with the operating system.

  I think a HAF 932 on your budget is just ridiculous.  But again, it's your money, and it is a nice case.

  -----

  If you want a faster video card, then the next natural step up is a Radeon HD 6950.  If you're not playing games at an extremely high resolution (basically, anything above 1920x1200), then 1 GB of video memory should be enough for you.  You're in luck, as brand new 1 GB versions of the Radeon HD 6950 have just launched.  AMD says that they should be $260.  See here, for example.

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102921

  They just launched, so there will probably be more brands in stock tomorrow.

  The GeForce GTX 560 Ti (hooray for random letter combinations?) is supposed to launch today for somewhere around $260.  AMD seems to be trying to spoil Nvidia's launch, as they just announced the new 1 GB versions of the Radeon HD 6950, as well as price cuts on the Radeon HD 6870 and 2 GB versions of the Radeon HD 6950.  The GTX 560 Ti is basically a respin of the GeForce GTX 460, and based on the specs, I don't think there's any real chance that it will catch a 6950 in performance, though it will likely be a little faster than a 6870.  I don't see much point in buying a GTX 560 unless you happen to prefer Nvidia (in which case, you probably wouldn't have picked a 6870 in your first build) or Nvidia prices them cheaper than rumored.  The latter option could easily happen, either from a last minute change of plans on Nvidia's part to price the cards in line with performance as compared to AMD's new prices, or (more likely) from the rumored prices simply being wrong.
• rugrato7 Member Posts: 10

  January 2011

  Well Quiz, I took your suggestions and ran with it.

  With the whole case thing, nothing was written in stone. I just wanted to build a computer that would last me for a few years and have the option to upgrade it whenever I wanted. Like you said it's my money, I just want to get the biggest bang for my buck.

  Being my first build, reguardless of the amount of research I do, I am nervous about making bad decisions.

  I'll look into those 1gb 6950 cards.. the price seems reasonable. Do you think it will be worth it with the set up I have now?

  And thank you for taking the time to help me!

  
  

  $20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card14-102-913
  
  

  
  

  $15.00 Mail-in Rebate20-226-151  
  
  
  
  $249.99
  
  $219.99
  
  
   
  
  
  
  $144.99
  
  $129.99
  
  
  

  Qty.	Product Description	Savings	Total Price
  1	SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM Item #: N82E16827151188 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$19.99
  1	Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive Item #: N82E16822136358 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$49.99
  1	SAPPHIRE 100314-2SR Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity Item #: N82E16814102913 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy	-$30.00 Instant
  1	SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply Item #: N82E16817151094 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$20.00 Instant	$79.99 $59.99
  1	BELKIN F8E093 Anti-Static Wrist Strap Item #: N82E16899888207 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$7.79
  1	G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ Item #: N82E16820231193 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy		$47.99
  1	ASUS P8P67 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Item #: N82E16813131681 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$159.99
  1	Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe MKNSSDCL60GB-DX 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) Item #: N82E16820226151 Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant
  1	Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM Item #: N82E16832116754 Return Policy: Software Standard Return Policy Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Item #: N82E16811129066 Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy	-$5.00 Combo	$169.98 $164.98
  1	Intel Core i5-2500 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500 Item #: N82E16819115073 Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy COOLER MASTER Hyper N 520 RR-920-N520-GP 92mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Intel Core i7 compatible Item #: N82E16835103057 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$5.00 Instant -$22.00 Combo	$249.98 $222.98
• noquarter Member Posts: 1,170

  January 2011

  Man I barely have to post here anymore because I agree with everything Quizzical posts. Getting kind of boring. Used to derail every build thread arguing with other posters about RAID and memory capacity and PSU's.

  
  But yea. Definitely go for the 6950 1GB. $265 for the XFX one which has double lifetime warranty. That also makes it much easier to resell down the line if you are into FS/T forums or ebay.

  
  Nice to see how thorough you've been on your selection, even grabbed an anti-static wristband. I live in a pretty humid area so static never been that big an issue for me thankfully.
• rugrato7 Member Posts: 10

  January 2011

  Thanks noquarter,

  I have been looking over these forums whatching what you and quiz say for the last few weeks.

  It will prob be at least another week before I pull the trigger on this (waiting for my tax refund to do this.) So I will keep my eye on those 6950 cards.
• atr003 Member Posts: 7

  January 2011

  Wow!~ go for it!!! now all you need is a 17-32 inch' LED monitor and you got yourself a super cool desktop :O
• Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

  January 2011

  8GB of ram do have some point, in my case I have it since I have my browser and with loads of pages in the background, and also some other programs. It is of course easy to turn them off but Ram is so cheap that I foor one prefer to be lazy. You could always get those 4 gigs later if you feel you need them.

  Looks fine other wise ( I would personally go for a Corsair PSU instead of Seabreeze, it costs more but is better).
• Quizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,509

  January 2011

  
  Originally posted by Loke666

  Looks fine other wise ( I would personally go for a Corsair PSU instead of Seabreeze, it costs more but is better).

  You do, I hope, realize that some of Corsair's power supplies are simply rebranded Seasonic power supplies.  Indeed, all of Corsair's power supplies are rebranded power supplies made by some other company, as Corsair doesn't build their own.  A lot of Corsair's are really made by Channel Well.

  At low wattages, Corsair seems to mainly be pushing some new CX models that really aren't very good.  They're not terrible, but a clear downgrade from the Seasonic S12II.
• eye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317

  January 2011

  
  Originally posted by noquarter

  Man I barely have to post here anymore because I agree with everything Quizzical posts. 

  I find everytime I look at a hardware thread, I just read Quizzical's replies and leave the thread. I don't always agree with his preferences (personal bias ) but I can't argue or add to what he's put. 

   

  I guess the only thing that I don't think gets mentioned enough is the fact that all hardware can fail, be DOA, or even just have errors. So run a burn in test on every system you setup to prove that the hardware is good before you waste your time installing software.

  All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

  I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
• rugrato7 Member Posts: 10

  January 2011

  Well I have pretty much finalized my build, everything is mostly the same except a few combos (with the same components) that saved me some money.

  I did decide to go with the Sapphire 6950 1GB card but as soon as I did Newegg was sold out of them, debating on waiting (over a week) or just going with the XFX version.
• Quizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,509

  January 2011

  
  Originally posted by eyelolled

  I guess the only thing that I don't think gets mentioned enough is the fact that all hardware can fail, be DOA, or even just have errors. So run a burn in test on every system you setup to prove that the hardware is good before you waste your time installing software.

  That's true.  I kind of figure that if people can't get something to work, they'll ask for help.  A stress test can be useful, though.

  -----

  I'd say go ahead and get the XFX card.  It's only an extra $5, and XFX is generally regarded as offering better warranty service.  They also offer a lifetime warranty if you register the card.