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Time to support different kinds of MMOs
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
The rpg in the mmo is getting dull and boring because almost ever developer out there copies everyone else's work. Today mmorpgs are nothing more than a copy of what has been done back in the day. You played one you pretty much played them all. Quests are pretty much all the same, go kill and go fetch quest which has become pretty generic now. I know there will be alot of us who will be playing The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 but I seriously think it is time for players out there to get try to get into different types of mmos such as the MMORTS, MMOFPS and sandbox style of play.
There is going to be MMORTS games such as Age of Empires Online, Dawn of Fantasy and End of Nations that will be completely different from the typical mmo and a breath of fresh air. I'm not saying we all should completely abandon the typical mmo but supporting other types of mmos will clearly send a message that we are tired of the same old same old.
Comments
I still vote for MMORTSRPGFPS.
Thats MMO - RTS - RPG in FPS mode...set in just about any genre imagiable OTHER than high fantasy which is so burned out its carbon.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
In my opinion, there are specific areas that need to be addressed to create the next generation of MMORPGs.
One is economics.
MMORPGs look at auction houses many times as currency sinks which I think is a huge design error.
Auction house systems should be designed with respect to supporting and promoting a player based economy.
This means making the method of searching for an item very easy. Specifically, filters need to be added to auction houses such that a player can find an item with a specific stat modifier, or search for an item which has multiple stat modifiers. For example, you should be able to search for an item based on a filter for Strength and Stamina, or HP and MP, or multiple resistances.
Also, a huge fault of many games is populating the game with useless items. This means that said item has no use among players, is not a crafting material, and is basically good for nothing else but NPC vendoring. A good example of this problem is Dungeons and Dragons Online, in which many items exist that no player would ever want to equip. Since there is no way to "disenchant" an item to crafting materials, the only use for the item is to sell it to a NPC vendor. In my view, what is the point of even including this item in the game? It takes up space in loot chests but provides nothing but currency for the player. Also, inexperienced players see the equipment as something that they think "someone wants" and post this garbage on the auction house. This cramps the auction house with useless items, wasting the time of browsers, and the time and money of the auction poster, who will never sell their item.
By populating a game with items that all have a specific use, a more active economy will result, and will encourage trade among players regardless of that character's level.
Two is crafting.
MMORPGs more often than not include some sort of crafting system. However, no matter your skill, you are confined to crafting recipes that are predetermined. In my view, if I'm a grandmaster blacksmith, I should be able to strike out on my own and create my own recipes. For instance, if I want to craft a sword with specific stat modifiers, I should be able to purchase or hunt for crafting materials that are based on which stat modifier they produce. This issue is addressed somewhat in games like WoW (items with sockets), and Anarchy Online (implants are customizable). Also, this will create a greater demand for many crafting materials, instead of having a great demand for a handful of components, and a much smaller demand for the rest of the components in the game.
Furthermore, if a crafter can craft items that are truly their own original creations, these items automatically gain a totally new aura and appeal to other players. It may have a combination of mods that are not found on droppable equipment, or it may be possible to level throughout the entire game with the same stat modifiers, only increasing the amount modified as you level.
Also, there is a need to be able to upgrade equipment such that it can level with you. For instance, if you really like a specific item that is low level, after a few levels it's useless. Also, for anyone who finds the given item and intends to sell it, their target market is now limited to only players of that level range, meaning that the majority of players will not buy it, because, why spend a sizeable amount of coin for something you are only going to use for a few levels. However, if you were able to level the equipment up as well, these items would not be useless, but instead would be sought after. If it's possible to get a unique or rare item and then level it up to your current level, and level it up as you level even to max level, the demand would be much higher for the item.
Three is questing.
MMORPGs have taken different approaches to questing. There are open game worlds where players have to fight over kills, there are instance based game worlds where each quest you enter is spawned and entrance is only granted to your party. There are even games that offer instance based quest and instance based open areas. I believe instance based is the way to go, however, for the player of a MMORPG, more often than not, quests get painfully monotonous. You either are faced with doing the exact same quests for each character, or a different set of quests for each character which are basically the same, and only differ by mob names and their location (example: each race of the game starts in their racial home city, but the quests are basically the same as all other races).
What is the solution? Take the emphasis away from quests. Quests are optional in nearly every game I've ever played. In other words, you can quest, or you can just go and kill enemies. Classically, just killing mobs to level up takes longer to level up, as part of the quest reward is experience. I believe the solution is putting the emphasis on killing monsters, and change the rewards of a quest away from XP, and drastically towards rewards of faction/reputation, specific items, or even unlocking further quests. Also, integrating questing into the crafting system, economic system, skill system would be very interesting. Further, quests should be randomly generated each time, so that the quest instance map is different *every* time, like the original Diablo. Even if the objective is the same, it requires a more active approach to the quest if you have no idea what is around the next turn.
I mentioned integrating quests into other systems of the game. This may mean that you have to go do a quest to get a unique item needed to pass the crafting test to go from one tier of crafting to the next. It may mean that to list the maximum amount of auctions on the auction house, you have to recover the auctioneer's lost or stolen treasure. It may mean that to get the needed reputation with the faction for the above said quesst you have to prove your loyalty to them, before they allow you to delve into their personal business.
I said that the act of gaining XP should be emphasized with killing mobs, and not questing. This calls for a more active combat system. I don't mean having to click 1000 skills in a certain order and watching your character carry them out. I mean having to actively engage the enemy, targeting your blows, spells, or projectiles. Almost to the extent of a FPS. Also, integrating skills and/or combo moves into the combat system would create a more active combat system. No more of this "target" "skill" "auto attack" or holding down the attack button until something is dead. Unless of course, it's much lower level than you. To defeat a monster equal to you in level, you should be challenged. You should be able to, and in fact, need to, invent your own style of combat based on the items and skills your character chooses. This would make each character a new adventure, and not a rehashed, very similar version of the game you played with your previous character.
I know this only scratches the surface, but I believe these are some of the biggest reasons I find, not to play a game title I give a try.
You didnt touch on the main one I am looking for moving forward. Actually I have three.
1. seiges (basically RTS in an RPG, this doesnt even have to be pvp, it can be control of a pve castle for example)
2. group crafting (by this I mean items that are usualable by a group say for example a cannon should require different crafters to make all together. One person should be able to do it if they really want to put in the work but it should be designed more for a group of different crafters to do more easily).
3. no more classes, skill system only please.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Those are all good points. I was only touching on the three biggest turn-offs of most MMORPGs I try that are either F2P or run by Item Malls.
I think that getting rid of classes would be awesome, but keep in mind that in that case, every skill should have a different requirement. This may mean that it is much more difficult to "multi class" if you have to spread your stats around to a lot of different attributes to take the skills you want. I think also this would be difficult for young MMORPG players. I think it would be cool to be able to choose a class (and be able to multi class) or to choose to create your own. Then, the people that just want to make a ranger can do so, or if they want to have a magic casting melee combatant they can multiclass, or if they want to make a hybrid character class all their own (me, me, me! lol) they have the ability to do so.
The group crafting sounds fun, but I am a big solo player as I despise PUGs. I am however, a very active guild member on various games. I think guild crafting would be much cooler than group crafting, in which case, you might need multiple crafters of the same trade, to construct a guild item, such as a guild house, or guild boat, etc. Also, this would still work for your example of constructing a cannon for instance, to install on your guild castle. You need blacksmiths and engineers for example, but you might need a few of each of them to pull it off!
Adding RTS elements to a RPG is an idea I like, but here's the thing. The biggest turn off to RTS for me is that every mission I have to restart. If all of my buildings and units from the previous battle advanced with me into the next mission, I would be hooked. For this reason, being MMO, and integrating RTS into RPG, perhaps each guilds house or caslte or whatever is contained within it's own instance, and you have to defend it. Meaning, you could use guild crafting to construct your defenses, and then you set out to conquer and secure the area surrounding your guild house such that it's not overrun by enemies present in your guild castle instance. Also, this would add a currency sink to the game, be innovative, and add guild crafting which is also quite innovative.
Think of being able to get together a bunch of guildies and create a brand new never before seen item to use in the defense of your custom build castle that was built by all of the crafters of the guild! Truly would be innovative and a lot a entertainment.
Agreed, well besides questing. Quests needs more than that, they also need to kill of the rat killing quests and make them long, i9nteresting and epic.
I will support different MMOs, I will buy WoDO and GW2, possibly TOR as well but I am not sure how different the last actually will be besides dialogues, I guess we have to wait and see.
While I'll go along with supporting a well made sandbox game, other styes such as MMOFPS just don't interest me personally. (don't have the reflexes)
Finding something new, different and well made seems to be a challenge however, but if anyone really makes a true successor to DAOC I'll be there with bells on.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CATA already did that. But of course it is difficult to evaluate things when you don't play them ...
I certainly agree, and I think that your points go hand in hand with my comments about making the rewards of quests be more based on unlocking further content, features, and specific (rare/unique/epic) items. This means you have no need to go kill 30 boars to get 8 tusks to turn in for a negligible amount of money and 10% of the xp needed for your current level up. Instead, you decide you want to score a specific epic pair of boots, or get in the good fortune of the king of a newly visited land, and you go on an epic quest to hunt down and destroy the villain plagueing the land. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to get in the good graces of his majesty AND score a great item in the process. This would add more excitement to quests, and remove doing quest after quest after quest of killing a certain number of mobs or killing a certain mob for a certain number of that mobs body parts. Who needs bat droppings and spider intestines anyway? The last time I checked, there are very few witches in RPGs...lol.
I can understand your stance on FPS based on reflexes, or not feeling like using your reflexes at length when you're trying to relax and enjoy some MMO based entertainment. I will say, however, that FPS doesn't have be extremely reflex based, and when designed correctly, FPS systems are not extremely difficult in scoring a hit. The difficulty may be scoring enough hits before something gets to you and slashes your face off...lol. For instance, Vindictus is an action based MMORPG in which when using the keyboard and mouse, you control your character using a "mouse look" system. While this may sound challenging for the reflexes, I assure you, that is not the case. It is quite easy to target and hit combatants with melee, ranged, and spell attacks, even though you have to actively look in their direction to score hits.
I do agree that just finding something new with innovative features (hopefully some of those mentioned by posters within this thread), would definitely be better than most of what I see nowadays, and would be a welcome edition to the MMORPG genre.
@ SEANMCAD
Can you tell me the names of any MMORPGs that only have skill systems and no classes, or at least the ability to create a character not confined to a class/multi-class? I haven't played a game that truly has no classes yet, and would like to give one a try if it exists.
I've played various games that allow characters of any class to learn any skill, but I haven't found one yet that truly lets you create your own class, so to speak.
UO, Eve online, Darkfall, Mortal online... There are a few more. Most if not all are sandbox games.
Runescape too.
Agree, and would add one more thing.
IN DAoC, you had a small ability to actually change the world. Not retarded "phasing" which doesn't really change the world, but an actual affect on teh world.
If you captured enough keeps, you gained control of a cool Dungeon called Darkness Falls, which had good xp, and good loot.
The other realms lost the ability to go into Darkness Falls. However, any player logging off in DF would still log on inside the dungeon, but it might be now controlled by the enemy.
I'd like to see HUNDREDS of features like this, where players impact the world.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That is gaining access to a specific zone/instance, not a bad idea (GW uses the same thing) but it is not changing the world.
WAR was supposed to have some world changing were you actually could destroy 2 of the opponent 3 cities and turn them into ruins before you won but that was cancelled.
GW2s dynamic events is however not phasing even if the changes are temporary (some can last pretty long while other might be gone in 30 minutes). It is not phasing when everyone on the server see the same thing in the same area no matter if they done any quests or are level one or max.
And sanbox games have it usually, building a house or town in the wilderness is a big change (yeah, you can do it in Vanguard as well).
I agree with the OP.
I play pretty much every genre of game out there and love to get a new experience. I am totally for new types of MMO's but I am also for new and fun takes of MMORPG's.
When I look for an MMORPG nowadays I look at if the combat is different and exciting and also if adventuring is fun instead of the same grind of kill and collect quests that is explained by a wall of text that does nothing for me.
Single player RPG's have made great strides in storytelling and even shooters can tell a great story but for some reason MMORPG's are stuck in a rut when it comes to storytelling. Stories are what push you onward in games and the stories being told in the great games coming out nowadays rival those told in movies, tv and books. MMORPG's have yet to embrace that and instead go for the most basic for of storytelling and that is bland text.
I haven't been excited to kill 10 of anything in a while, however I was stoked when I had to rescue Tali from a planet where the sun was dying and the light from it hurt you. I was also stunned when Morrigan tried to use me as a sperm donor then run off with my child.
If MMORPG's can provide the types of adventures that draw you in but in an MMO setting and provide exciting and thoughtful combat then I think the genre will advance beyond the its current status.
End of Nations seems to be more Shattered Galaxy than Travian, so it's a pretty interesting MMORTS to me.
I approve of the hidden message of the thread: If you dislike icecream, and think different flavors of icecream still taste like icecream, stop eating icecream!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I dont think that the people who feel this way dont like icecream. I think the only icecream we have had for years is vanilla icecream. Plain Vannila, Vannila Bean, French Vannilla etc... We are sick of vanilla icecream and want some chocolate or strawberry or wouldnt it be nice to have some sherbert instead.