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EVE Online: CCP & the CSM Strengthening the Bond
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The Council of Stellar Management recently met with CCP developers to discuss player issues with EVE Online. The CSM is directly charged with bringing concerns to CCP and to assist with making sure the game stays as relevant for players as possible. MMORPG.com's Bill Murphy recently had the opportunity to discuss the latest CSM/CCP meeting with Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson. Check it out and then leave us your thoughts in the comments below.
All that said, near the end of last year there was a bit of a “brouhaha” in the EVE community over just how involved the CSM was in the development process of EVE Online. The CSM brings forth a set of issues to every single meeting they attend with the development staff of EVE. But as is now innately known by all members of the CSM and CCP, not every single issue the player-base brings forth can be addressed immediately. Due to the complexities of game design and schedules, it became a worry of the CSM and the community at large that their requests were going unheeded.
Read more Bill Murphy's interview CCP & the CSM – Strengthening the Bond.
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Comments
Still looking for CCP to explain the details of why they removed a CSM member last year...
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Same game you could buy in super bulk PLEX @ huge discounted pricing, its all about money. I lost interest in this game when pvp took a crappy flush. I do miss the old roaming pvp pew pew, but I prefer not to loss all in a laggy node due to horrid issues with lag. Not to mention 6-24m roaming gangs are pretty pointless anymore in deep space.
What business is it of yours?
That's not just a rhetorical question, being removed for NDA violations would have had serious legal implications for someone supposedly making a career as a game developer as Eva was. CCP were almost certainly advised in very strong terms by their legals to say absolutely as little as possible. It's also possible that they made a deal with Ms Jobse to say nothing further about it, especially as she was all set to make announcements on her blog and then went completely silent.
Funny that - ever wonder why didn't she say anything either...?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
orly? Where?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Being an EVE player makes it my business. If CCP is touting the "Strengthening of bonds" and yet removes members of the CSM without giving ANY reason, makes what they are touting hollow. If there truely was an agreement and if part of that agreement was not to disclose the details, CCP still could have said that a "mutual agreement" between the parties was reached. Nothing violated and a reason given. The seemingly arbitray nature of their qctions leaves in doubt the convictions, motives and commitment to the CSM as anything more than a "company mouthpiece". I do know the person that was removed, never heard of them before. I just question the "powers that be" when they remove a member of the player base from a committee that is supposed to be for the player base and was voted on by the player base. CCP's reason for removing the person cannot be so insidious as to not say why they took that action. Of a member of the CSM can take such action that is so aggregious as to warrant removal without reason to the player base that voted them onto the council then perhaps CCP should jsut disband the CSM and quit with the charade that the CSM matters.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
They gave a reason, that csm violated the NDA. that's all you need or deserve to be told.
They could tell you, but then they'd have to (pod)kill you. Over and over. Mwahahahaha!
CCP is not the government. They didn't realize that they should've thrown a ("good enough") reason out there, whether it was real or not, just to placate inquiring minds like yours. More of a PR mistake than anything else, I reckon. If they make a habit of removing CSM members and giving no reason, there will certainly be a problem. But if you want to ignore everything CCP is doing to imrprove relations with and increase the importance of the CSM by labeling it a charade, that's your choice. We'll see in time whether or not the players' concerns are heard, keeping in mind that - as stated many times in this interview - CCP's plans for the future of their game come first. Player feedback is considered, but not automatically treated as law.
Edit: I kept typing "the CCP" instead of "the CSM." Confusing acronyms they are!
Unfortunately, that's not how these things work and you being a player doesn't entitle you to anything other than access to the game in which you pay your subscription.
As previously mentioned, there's obviously a reason no one has spoken publicly about it. The reasons may not be legal but purely a gentlemen's agreement between the 2 parties to go their separate ways and not speak of the details. Perhaps that's an alien concept to some but it actually happens.
To propose that this scenario put CCP in some questioning light is a right-brained claim that flies in the face of all existing data and experience in the community. Consipiracy theories are good for drama and naught else.
The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.
Regards,
Sarethor
Stop. No.
Let's say you got fired tomorrow morning. Does being a customer of whatever company you work for entitle me to look at your employee record and know why?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
This.
I experienced a company who decided that it was the customers right to know why I was fired, and after making a few friends serving customers, I lost a few because of the company's lack of discretion.
Though the company is actually legally binded to not disclose information about employees or previous employees. It might not be so in different countries though...
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
I have only one thing to say to the CSM.
<b>Fix. The. Font.</b>
The game is perfect for what it wants to be, but I will never play a game I have to squint and stay four inches from my monitor to see at my native resolution. I won't do it. I won't ever do it.
Not only is the font tiny and unchangeable, but it is a terrible, horrible, no-good, bad font. It is ugly. For shame, CCP!
If nothing else, please do not make the same mistake with WoD?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
This is exactly why I couldnt get into Eve. Everything has to be complex and someone is always getting shafted. Never trust a game with a calculator built into the UI. No fun at all, super time sink boring just like the comments on this article. If I didnt have chronic insomnia and a strange need to rubberneck at nasty wrecks I wouldnt be reading this crappola!
EVE online, ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE
Lots of good feedback.
Unfortunately many of you missed the part where I said that if CCP had said the person in question is no longer a member of the CSM by mutual agreement, that that would be sufficient. CCP has never given a reason, even though it has been mistakenly said in this thread that it was for a violation of the NDA, CCP hasn't said that. CCP hasn't said anything.
As for the being fired comments, the CSM is NOT and was NOT hired by CCP. The CSM is elected representatives of the player base. The proper analogy would be to ask if a US Senator violated some disclosure clauses would the President be able to remove the SEnator from office. The answer is no. A Senator (or any elected offical) can only be removed from office by a super-majority vote of the congressional body or by an impeachment by the general populace that is represented by that elected offical.
I would on the surface of things agree that what I can question is limited by the EULA. In this case CCP is actively asking its player base to be involved in decision making, to elect representatives to present their point of view. If CCP is inviting my feedback and involvement and wants to "Strengthen the bonds", then they should answer the questions posed by the player base and its representatives . . . otherwise dissolve the CSM and dont ask for active involvement.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Just sayin'...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just for those who don't click links:
Today Eva "Ankhesentapemkah" Jobse was removed from the Council of Stellar Management due to a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA). We are deeply saddened but feel that it was the only possible solution in order to protect the integrity of the Council of Stellar Management. As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further.
That sounds like what you asked them to say.
Back to the original article I was just wondering if anyone can think of any other games that have a group like the CSM? I think the concept has merits but I haven't seen any other MMO try to work with it's community as well.
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby)
Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks
Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six.
Tried: Too many to list
Beyond Protocol and A Tale in the Desert both have a form of player council or player representative system. There's also the STO Advisory Council but I haven't heard anything much about that one since the announcement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Hmm... I've heard of A Tale and the STO council I vaguely recall the announcement. I wonder how well they're doing? Do we think this is a good thing for MMO's?
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby)
Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks
Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six.
Tried: Too many to list
IMO, Hell, yes. I just wish more players would get involved, either in running for the councils or contributing input and discussion points for the councils to take to the developers. I also wish more players would get out and VOTE. Vote for the candidates, vote on the topics... make use of every opportunity they have to get their voices heard.
In a small MMO community, I can see the concerns of an 'elite few' taking control but in a community of 50k, 100k, or... let's see.... 360,000 players... the chance of having a council representing diverse interests is not only possible but has been successfully done several times over.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I like the idea of a council and such, perhaps one way to get more player interaction with these groups is to promote them in game? For instance I'm not a regular on my MMO forums, so unless it's in the patch notes or a Message of the Day I'll probably not hear about major announcements or community things like a council type thing.
Even better when you can mix it into in game news feeds. Just a regular "hey this is going on" kind of thing. Make it interesting and more folks will participate.
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby)
Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks
Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six.
Tried: Too many to list
AFAIK, most of the MMOs with councils do that. Again, not sure about the STO thing as I haven't heard anything about it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre