This is made simpler by the fact that each calling (Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Mage) has a soul specifically dedicated to PvP with enormous bonuses to PvP, such as CC breaks, increased damage to players specifically, increased healing output to players. I forgot the "counterbalance" to the PvP soul that makes it unusable in PvE content, but I'm 98.7% that there is a heavy one, to specifically prevent its use in PvE.
I would imagine all of the balancing would be done to these souls for PvP, as it would impact PvP alone and not hinder PvE. Which is pretty nice if you ask me, considering how upset people tend to get when their PvE viability is harmed because an ability is OP in PvP.
PVP was built into the game from the ground floor and not an afterthought.
The game is farly well balanced from a group PVP perspective. Obviously 1 on 1 balance will never happen, which is where soul and build selection plays a huge role. You're not killing a good cleric without a Void Knight at the levels we're able to test.
You also have to keep in mind that later rank PVP skills will completely change the way you PVP from level 30. This is something we obviously can't test yet.
There is a big PvP imabalance atm. I don't know if it will ever be balanced for PvP due to so many combinations with souls. I always thought that two souls was enough, but everyone wanted 3.
PVP was built into the game from the ground floor and not an afterthought.
The game is farly well balanced from a group PVP perspective. Obviously 1 on 1 balance will never happen, which is where soul and build selection plays a huge role. You're not killing a good cleric without a Void Knight at the levels we're able to test.
You also have to keep in mind that later rank PVP skills will completely change the way you PVP from level 30. This is something we obviously can't test yet.
I dont think so.
So far mages are nothing more than light aoe dmg, and novelty utility. Their CC too easy to break, their buffs ok, but not really a factor in pvp, and their damage ranges from too slow to matter (pyro) to some ok aoe dmg (stormcaller). Sure they can heal, but why not go cleric for some decent DD and survivability witht those heals? Their DOT's too weak as well.
Also mages really dont posess much mobility in the pvp scenario, your pyromancer will be lucky to get off enough fireballs to do 10% damage to their target, before they move. Clerics can do it mobil, rangers can do it all mobil, and warriors can do it all mobil, the only one lokced down during casting are the poor mages.
Top that off with their traditional targets, being warriors, now possesing tanking and DD abilities, but also they get bullcharge with a root, and void knight "anti-mage" soul ability.
Really the only thing to do was the go necromancer, and sit back and try not to get noticed while my pet did all the work.
Last beta it was extremely difficult to even find a reason to be on my mage for pvp. My champ bullcharged from mage to mage dropping them with ease, rarely a death, rangers could just run by and kill a mage before the mage could even dent their hp, and clerics could just heal away and damage done, break our CC's and DD us.
I dont expect too see too many mages or melee rogues in pvp, and there is good reason to that. Both seem to be a novelty class, while the rest get versatility in all situations.
I find it hard to believe that PVP was a day one project. They have said they won't nerf pve to balance pvp soooo your toon will go up and down the uber list as they get new spells. At lvl 20 the Warriors rock and the mages are getting beaten so badly I almost called 911. it is impossible to say which class is going to be an end game pvp class since we can't get past 30. The other thing to consider is the gear imbalance. Right now we are seeing low lvl/bad gear pvp. Once everyone gets raided up the pvp imbalance could get much worse. I love pvp but hate raiding. That always presents huge gear issues which I expect is going to be the case here.
The game runs pretty smooth in pvp and you do get exp in it (not sure if you can turn that off so you can leave a guy in low lvl pvp)
This game is VERY imbalanced pvp wise right now. Specially coming from a game like GW where the pvp balance is so fine tuned this can feel rediculous at times.
This game is VERY imbalanced pvp wise right now. Specially coming from a game like GW where the pvp balance is so fine tuned this can feel rediculous at times.
It will probably be very difficult to balance. But its not intended to be a e-sport pvp game. So there is no need for perfect balance. The class/soul system is advanced with a lot of possible combinations. This makes the game interesting. But also means poor class balance.
I guess when people are max level there will be 4 builds that are considered to be best. People will figure out what works.
It has its moments - each class has its weak and OP at the same time. Its not like ALL rogues are OP like in some other games - maybe one particular combo is working great, but not all of them. And even the same three souls on one guy can be awesome, but so so on the guy standing next to him. Twink is far more the issue than the soul combo if you ask me. As in most games like this, a well financed alt, from a guild that specializes in gearing them up from the instances can and does pose more of a threat than any single soul combo or class. Not to mention the guild benefits, buffs, banners, and the like - I'm a thinking a PvP dedicated guild, with the right set of powers, can and will most likely dominate in Rift - as they should imo.
But yeah, some single soul combos are just nasty in the warfronts. A single well built, raid spec'd healer on one side - who knows how to heal, can almost entirely win the match on thier own - depending on the match that is. A Black Garden hell yes, because all they need is to stick together. Others like the Codex where they are spread out, not so much, although a good bard there and you got something. Its all rather situational, which to me makes it all good. Each soul does have a strong build for PvP, but its only a strong build under the right circumstances - understand what I mean?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
It has its moments - each class has its weak and OP at the same time. Its not like ALL rogues are OP like in some other games - maybe one particular combo is working great, but not all of them. And even the same three souls on one guy can be awesome, but so so on the guy standing next to him. Twink is far more the issue than the soul combo if you ask me. As in most games like this, a well financed alt, from a guild that specializes in gearing them up from the instances can and does pose more of a threat than any single soul combo or class. Not to mention the guild benefits, buffs, banners, and the like - I'm a thinking a PvP dedicated guild, with the right set of powers, can and will most likely dominate in Rift - as they should imo.
But yeah, some single soul combos are just nasty in the warfronts. A single well built, raid spec'd healer on one side - who knows how to heal, can almost entirely win the match on thier own - depending on the match that is. A Black Garden hell yes, because all they need is to stick together. Others like the Codex where they are spread out, not so much, although a good bard there and you got something. Its all rather situational, which to me makes it all good. Each soul does have a strong build for PvP, but its only a strong build under the right circumstances - understand what I mean?
^ i've been reading about the game, and watching pvp videos and what not on youtube for the last several hours.. the part i underlined makes me really not want to play. i'm a soloist and a dedicated pvper, i'm happy to read in other threads that this game has no arena like wow. the videos i've seen make the 'warfronts' look much more like warhammer pvp than wow's which i'm glad to see but in a few of the videos i've seen people join in groups and it doesn't seem to be matching premades vs premades and the idea that guilds confer even more bonuses seems stupidly imbalanced.
the start of this or the other pvp thread next to it (forget which one) says that the devs dont' care about pvp balance as much as pve .. that's really REALLY bad. i read a separate thread for someone in beta yesterday talking about how disappointed he was in a recent change to open world pvp mechanics and how it meant that you couldn't capture towns anymore basically and that that was enough for him to not buy the game at release. he was flamed and provided quite a few links for evidence supporting that the devs had considered pvp a strong point in the game and part of the base design.
i'm very much on the fence about this game, the videos i've seen make it look practically identical to wow (at least 65%), down to the fonts on names even, with some elements stolen directly from warhammer/lotro/others. since gw2's release date is supposedly november, tor doesnt' have one, and all other games out being tired or shitty (i've played most of the major titles, the latest 2 i've quit being DCUO and AoC's expansion) this looks like it's coming out in a void and will likely garner a decent population at least for a litlte while as a result.
i'm not really sure what to think .. especially since i prefer casters, generally speaking, and they appear to be the worst at the moment.
Currently Playing: Perpetuum MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
Well technically the warfront queues do try and match group queue to group queue. SO if you are teaming up and then hitting the join as a team button, it will try and match you with the same on the other side - if one is available. Howver, that being said, the size of your team does matter as well. The queue seems to start the match when it has I think 33% of the max for that front availabel on each side, and it brings more in as long as the balance for people doesn't drift more than 1 per side (so you dont have a 5 on 10 matchup). At least thats how it looks right now anyway - I dont have anything official for that, just what I have seen.
That being said though, team make up isnt the only reason I say a PvP focuses guild will dominate. Take for instance if I was in a guild that was designed that way, and it had enough levels on it for the +5% favor buff from the Foe Hunter perk- obviously I'ld advance faster towards my PvP gear right. Or how about that with the Blood Thirsy perk - healing you 25% over 5 seconds after killing another player. Or the Killing Spree perk adding 5% damage increase (up to a five stack) after killing another player. And lets not forget about the Know Your Enemy perk which reduces the damage you take from other players by 5%. And thats not even taking any of the banners or stat increase perks. Just imagine a PvP focused endgame guild that has some levels behind it - and all those perks together. Does it really matter if they join as a team or each one seperately. You are going to be at somewhat of a disadvantage. Not only will they have all those nice 5 minute guild perks you dont have, but most likely the best PvP gear they can buy.
Now I'm not saying this is all a bad thing, each person will have to decide how they want to play, and which guild they want to be in. And you dont have to be in a top end guild to win or have fun. But just like any other part of an MMO, the people who dedicate to one thing, will and most often should be given the perks of thier chosen work. Afterall, its not going to come easy. Our first quest seemed pretty easy for our PvP guild - win 25 Black Garden matches, well yeah that took a couple days without a single healer in the matches to help us. The second quest was kill 50 players on the other side - these are open world or contested zone only - warfront kills dont count. You get the idea though, and thats just to get us to level 2 on our guild. The example above, to have the 5 points for just those 4 perks, well that is gonna take more killing and winning than most single players would do in months to get. It will be alot of work for those guilds to get there. So why shouldn't they get the perks from all that work.
But hey, you can start a guild on your own, have a friend help you out with 4 alts to form it, then level it up yourself if you want the perks too. Good luck though, all I'm saying...
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Well technically the warfront queues do try and match group queue to group queue. SO if you are teaming up and then hitting the join as a team button, it will try and match you with the same on the other side - if one is available. Howver, that being said, the size of your team does matter as well. The queue seems to start the match when it has I think 33% of the max for that front availabel on each side, and it brings more in as long as the balance for people doesn't drift more than 1 per side (so you dont have a 5 on 10 matchup). At least thats how it looks right now anyway - I dont have anything official for that, just what I have seen.
That being said though, team make up isnt the only reason I say a PvP focuses guild will dominate. Take for instance if I was in a guild that was designed that way, and it had enough levels on it for the +5% favor buff from the Foe Hunter perk- obviously I'ld advance faster towards my PvP gear right. Or how about that with the Blood Thirsy perk - healing you 25% over 5 seconds after killing another player. Or the Killing Spree perk adding 5% damage increase (up to a five stack) after killing another player. And lets not forget about the Know Your Enemy perk which reduces the damage you take from other players by 5%. And thats not even taking any of the banners or stat increase perks. Just imagine a PvP focused endgame guild that has some levels behind it - and all those perks together. Does it really matter if they join as a team or each one seperately. You are going to be at somewhat of a disadvantage. Not only will they have all those nice 5 minute guild perks you dont have, but most likely the best PvP gear they can buy.
Now I'm not saying this is all a bad thing, each person will have to decide how they want to play, and which guild they want to be in. And you dont have to be in a top end guild to win or have fun. But just like any other part of an MMO, the people who dedicate to one thing, will and most often should be given the perks of thier chosen work. Afterall, its not going to come easy. Our first quest seemed pretty easy for our PvP guild - win 25 Black Garden matches, well yeah that took a couple days without a single healer in the matches to help us. The second quest was kill 50 players on the other side - these are open world or contested zone only - warfront kills dont count. You get the idea though, and thats just to get us to level 2 on our guild. The example above, to have the 5 points for just those 4 perks, well that is gonna take more killing and winning than most single players would do in months to get. It will be alot of work for those guilds to get there. So why shouldn't they get the perks from all that work.
But hey, you can start a guild on your own, have a friend help you out with 4 alts to form it, then level it up yourself if you want the perks too. Good luck though, all I'm saying...
Well, thanks for the information, that honestly sounds insanely imbalanced. Especially aince it's pretty clear that one side already has a huge population advantange, that means that pvp focused Defiants will have even more benefits at their disposal. I've seen forum posts here and on the official Rift forum saying that Defiants are winning most warfront matches at the moment (although in all but 1 of the pvp videos I've seen, regardless of the faction of the player recording, Guardians won).
As someone who played as the under dog outnumbered 3 to 1 on an open pvp server in wow for years before they had most of the features they have today I don't mind playing against superior numbers, but playing against superior numbers with guild benefits stacked on pvp armor and pvp rank bonsuses seems kind of crazy.
The warfronts and especially the prestige ranks are clearly lifted straight from warhammer in their implementation and you can see how well that game has faired for new subs (they have been handing out perks to loyalists, not coming out with an expansion in 2 years and basically slowly dying in to obscurity; I played that game for a while through multiple rounds of server consolidations and finally the nerfing of my class patch after patch and introduction of new bugs from patches finally had me cancel, I'd really hate to see this game go that route), I think in large part because pvp is the focus of the game and new players know that they're at a serious disadvantage even at level cap.
I think these problems will be amplified if the statements about devs focusing on pve balance and not pvp balance are true; I haven't seen them personally just read 2nd hand posts from others (but, I've already read apologists posting things like "but they're not trying to make an e-sport" which I think is sad, because it shouldn't matter if they're trying to make korean football, people who are paying to play I think on the whole prefer a level playing field).
Currently Playing: Perpetuum MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
I have been watching this for a bit now too, really wondering how it will all play out. I play defiant mostly myself, and we were losing miserably last night, match after match after match. There was some healer on the guardian side doing crazy 40k+ healing per 10-19 Black Garden matches. We didn't stand a chance. So I can already see there are some imbalances to overcome. Just try and take out a healer like that when the rest of thier team is un-killable and they KNOW its because of the healz. Believe you me, you get MAYBE one hit in on that cute lil female dorf and your focus fired into oblivion. They didnt even bother to try and hide it either, just walked into the center as a group, picked up the fang and never moved from that spot - just killed anyone who got too close and waited for 500 to hit.
Comments
Interesting. Is PvP more of an afterthought in terms of the game design?
What i have heard them say is that they will not nerf PvE to bring balance to PvP
It sounds like balance will be in terms of PVE, not PVP.
This is made simpler by the fact that each calling (Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Mage) has a soul specifically dedicated to PvP with enormous bonuses to PvP, such as CC breaks, increased damage to players specifically, increased healing output to players. I forgot the "counterbalance" to the PvP soul that makes it unusable in PvE content, but I'm 98.7% that there is a heavy one, to specifically prevent its use in PvE.
I would imagine all of the balancing would be done to these souls for PvP, as it would impact PvP alone and not hinder PvE. Which is pretty nice if you ask me, considering how upset people tend to get when their PvE viability is harmed because an ability is OP in PvP.
.. But in a good way.
PVP was built into the game from the ground floor and not an afterthought.
The game is farly well balanced from a group PVP perspective. Obviously 1 on 1 balance will never happen, which is where soul and build selection plays a huge role. You're not killing a good cleric without a Void Knight at the levels we're able to test.
You also have to keep in mind that later rank PVP skills will completely change the way you PVP from level 30. This is something we obviously can't test yet.
There is a big PvP imabalance atm. I don't know if it will ever be balanced for PvP due to so many combinations with souls. I always thought that two souls was enough, but everyone wanted 3.
I dont think so.
So far mages are nothing more than light aoe dmg, and novelty utility. Their CC too easy to break, their buffs ok, but not really a factor in pvp, and their damage ranges from too slow to matter (pyro) to some ok aoe dmg (stormcaller). Sure they can heal, but why not go cleric for some decent DD and survivability witht those heals? Their DOT's too weak as well.
Also mages really dont posess much mobility in the pvp scenario, your pyromancer will be lucky to get off enough fireballs to do 10% damage to their target, before they move. Clerics can do it mobil, rangers can do it all mobil, and warriors can do it all mobil, the only one lokced down during casting are the poor mages.
Top that off with their traditional targets, being warriors, now possesing tanking and DD abilities, but also they get bullcharge with a root, and void knight "anti-mage" soul ability.
Really the only thing to do was the go necromancer, and sit back and try not to get noticed while my pet did all the work.
Last beta it was extremely difficult to even find a reason to be on my mage for pvp. My champ bullcharged from mage to mage dropping them with ease, rarely a death, rangers could just run by and kill a mage before the mage could even dent their hp, and clerics could just heal away and damage done, break our CC's and DD us.
I dont expect too see too many mages or melee rogues in pvp, and there is good reason to that. Both seem to be a novelty class, while the rest get versatility in all situations.
I find it hard to believe that PVP was a day one project. They have said they won't nerf pve to balance pvp soooo your toon will go up and down the uber list as they get new spells. At lvl 20 the Warriors rock and the mages are getting beaten so badly I almost called 911. it is impossible to say which class is going to be an end game pvp class since we can't get past 30. The other thing to consider is the gear imbalance. Right now we are seeing low lvl/bad gear pvp. Once everyone gets raided up the pvp imbalance could get much worse. I love pvp but hate raiding. That always presents huge gear issues which I expect is going to be the case here.
The game runs pretty smooth in pvp and you do get exp in it (not sure if you can turn that off so you can leave a guy in low lvl pvp)
.
This game is VERY imbalanced pvp wise right now. Specially coming from a game like GW where the pvp balance is so fine tuned this can feel rediculous at times.
MMORPG's always release with poor class balance. I'd give it a few months before really worrying about one class being OP and another being too weak.
It will probably be very difficult to balance. But its not intended to be a e-sport pvp game. So there is no need for perfect balance. The class/soul system is advanced with a lot of possible combinations. This makes the game interesting. But also means poor class balance.
I guess when people are max level there will be 4 builds that are considered to be best. People will figure out what works.
It has its moments - each class has its weak and OP at the same time. Its not like ALL rogues are OP like in some other games - maybe one particular combo is working great, but not all of them. And even the same three souls on one guy can be awesome, but so so on the guy standing next to him. Twink is far more the issue than the soul combo if you ask me. As in most games like this, a well financed alt, from a guild that specializes in gearing them up from the instances can and does pose more of a threat than any single soul combo or class. Not to mention the guild benefits, buffs, banners, and the like - I'm a thinking a PvP dedicated guild, with the right set of powers, can and will most likely dominate in Rift - as they should imo.
But yeah, some single soul combos are just nasty in the warfronts. A single well built, raid spec'd healer on one side - who knows how to heal, can almost entirely win the match on thier own - depending on the match that is. A Black Garden hell yes, because all they need is to stick together. Others like the Codex where they are spread out, not so much, although a good bard there and you got something. Its all rather situational, which to me makes it all good. Each soul does have a strong build for PvP, but its only a strong build under the right circumstances - understand what I mean?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
^ i've been reading about the game, and watching pvp videos and what not on youtube for the last several hours.. the part i underlined makes me really not want to play. i'm a soloist and a dedicated pvper, i'm happy to read in other threads that this game has no arena like wow. the videos i've seen make the 'warfronts' look much more like warhammer pvp than wow's which i'm glad to see but in a few of the videos i've seen people join in groups and it doesn't seem to be matching premades vs premades and the idea that guilds confer even more bonuses seems stupidly imbalanced.
the start of this or the other pvp thread next to it (forget which one) says that the devs dont' care about pvp balance as much as pve .. that's really REALLY bad. i read a separate thread for someone in beta yesterday talking about how disappointed he was in a recent change to open world pvp mechanics and how it meant that you couldn't capture towns anymore basically and that that was enough for him to not buy the game at release. he was flamed and provided quite a few links for evidence supporting that the devs had considered pvp a strong point in the game and part of the base design.
i'm very much on the fence about this game, the videos i've seen make it look practically identical to wow (at least 65%), down to the fonts on names even, with some elements stolen directly from warhammer/lotro/others. since gw2's release date is supposedly november, tor doesnt' have one, and all other games out being tired or shitty (i've played most of the major titles, the latest 2 i've quit being DCUO and AoC's expansion) this looks like it's coming out in a void and will likely garner a decent population at least for a litlte while as a result.
i'm not really sure what to think .. especially since i prefer casters, generally speaking, and they appear to be the worst at the moment.
Currently Playing: Perpetuum
MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
Well technically the warfront queues do try and match group queue to group queue. SO if you are teaming up and then hitting the join as a team button, it will try and match you with the same on the other side - if one is available. Howver, that being said, the size of your team does matter as well. The queue seems to start the match when it has I think 33% of the max for that front availabel on each side, and it brings more in as long as the balance for people doesn't drift more than 1 per side (so you dont have a 5 on 10 matchup). At least thats how it looks right now anyway - I dont have anything official for that, just what I have seen.
That being said though, team make up isnt the only reason I say a PvP focuses guild will dominate. Take for instance if I was in a guild that was designed that way, and it had enough levels on it for the +5% favor buff from the Foe Hunter perk- obviously I'ld advance faster towards my PvP gear right. Or how about that with the Blood Thirsy perk - healing you 25% over 5 seconds after killing another player. Or the Killing Spree perk adding 5% damage increase (up to a five stack) after killing another player. And lets not forget about the Know Your Enemy perk which reduces the damage you take from other players by 5%. And thats not even taking any of the banners or stat increase perks. Just imagine a PvP focused endgame guild that has some levels behind it - and all those perks together. Does it really matter if they join as a team or each one seperately. You are going to be at somewhat of a disadvantage. Not only will they have all those nice 5 minute guild perks you dont have, but most likely the best PvP gear they can buy.
Now I'm not saying this is all a bad thing, each person will have to decide how they want to play, and which guild they want to be in. And you dont have to be in a top end guild to win or have fun. But just like any other part of an MMO, the people who dedicate to one thing, will and most often should be given the perks of thier chosen work. Afterall, its not going to come easy. Our first quest seemed pretty easy for our PvP guild - win 25 Black Garden matches, well yeah that took a couple days without a single healer in the matches to help us. The second quest was kill 50 players on the other side - these are open world or contested zone only - warfront kills dont count. You get the idea though, and thats just to get us to level 2 on our guild. The example above, to have the 5 points for just those 4 perks, well that is gonna take more killing and winning than most single players would do in months to get. It will be alot of work for those guilds to get there. So why shouldn't they get the perks from all that work.
But hey, you can start a guild on your own, have a friend help you out with 4 alts to form it, then level it up yourself if you want the perks too. Good luck though, all I'm saying...
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Well, thanks for the information, that honestly sounds insanely imbalanced. Especially aince it's pretty clear that one side already has a huge population advantange, that means that pvp focused Defiants will have even more benefits at their disposal. I've seen forum posts here and on the official Rift forum saying that Defiants are winning most warfront matches at the moment (although in all but 1 of the pvp videos I've seen, regardless of the faction of the player recording, Guardians won).
As someone who played as the under dog outnumbered 3 to 1 on an open pvp server in wow for years before they had most of the features they have today I don't mind playing against superior numbers, but playing against superior numbers with guild benefits stacked on pvp armor and pvp rank bonsuses seems kind of crazy.
The warfronts and especially the prestige ranks are clearly lifted straight from warhammer in their implementation and you can see how well that game has faired for new subs (they have been handing out perks to loyalists, not coming out with an expansion in 2 years and basically slowly dying in to obscurity; I played that game for a while through multiple rounds of server consolidations and finally the nerfing of my class patch after patch and introduction of new bugs from patches finally had me cancel, I'd really hate to see this game go that route), I think in large part because pvp is the focus of the game and new players know that they're at a serious disadvantage even at level cap.
I think these problems will be amplified if the statements about devs focusing on pve balance and not pvp balance are true; I haven't seen them personally just read 2nd hand posts from others (but, I've already read apologists posting things like "but they're not trying to make an e-sport" which I think is sad, because it shouldn't matter if they're trying to make korean football, people who are paying to play I think on the whole prefer a level playing field).
Currently Playing: Perpetuum
MMOs Played (most time spent to least): World of Warcraft (BG/Open world PvP focused), Lord of the Rings Online (PvMP focused), Warhammer Online (BG PvP focused), Global Agenda, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online (PvP focused), Runes of Magic, Allods, Aion, Fallen Earth
I have been watching this for a bit now too, really wondering how it will all play out. I play defiant mostly myself, and we were losing miserably last night, match after match after match. There was some healer on the guardian side doing crazy 40k+ healing per 10-19 Black Garden matches. We didn't stand a chance. So I can already see there are some imbalances to overcome. Just try and take out a healer like that when the rest of thier team is un-killable and they KNOW its because of the healz. Believe you me, you get MAYBE one hit in on that cute lil female dorf and your focus fired into oblivion. They didnt even bother to try and hide it either, just walked into the center as a group, picked up the fang and never moved from that spot - just killed anyone who got too close and waited for 500 to hit.