Beta 6 was bad in the aspect that about 20% of the folks who were in beta got locked out due to some technical errors taht trion had. I know several folks including me who all had the you are not authorized. It took all weekend to fix.
By the time I got my account fixed the beta was over.
But reading the patch notes and found the nerf to wariors using the build that I had, I was not happy about that either. We not even released yet and already some classes and trees are getting nerfed.
Beta 6 was bad in the aspect that about 20% of the folks who were in beta got locked out due to some technical errors taht trion had. I know several folks including me who all had the you are not authorized. It took all weekend to fix.
By the time I got my account fixed the beta was over.
But reading the patch notes and found the nerf to wariors using the build that I had, I was not happy about that either. We not even released yet and already some classes and trees are getting nerfed.
Trion shouldn't have let the masses in. It was a mistake. People really want to get their hands on the game and I understand why, but there is so much crap circulating now it's just terrible. They weren't prepared for the overwhelming amounts of people that would be trying to get in, and it WAS as a stress test.
I would say please nerf the classes and souls now, and definitely not after release... and most of the nerfs have come about from people QQing, I'm just saying. It is a BETA so things are supposed to change. Sorry.
Like a good accident, I cant help but not look away. Who's crying over balancing steps that are taking place in beta because they researched and chose the flavor of the week?
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
I found a really good rogue build that I will use when the game goes live. As for warriors, I duo with one and he took more of a beating from an elite than he should have in beta 6, so yeah maybe they were nerfed too much.
Originally posted by erictlewis Beta 6 was bad in the aspect that about 20% of the folks who were in beta got locked out due to some technical errors taht trion had. I know several folks including me who all had the you are not authorized. It took all weekend to fix. By the time I got my account fixed the beta was over. But reading the patch notes and found the nerf to wariors using the build that I had, I was not happy about that either. We not even released yet and already some classes and trees are getting nerfed.
I expect they'll be making class balance changes till the day the servers get turned off. If they (Trion) are any good, that is.
I actually didn't read the patch notes before I played, but immediatley felt the difference, then I went and read the patch notes, I was kind of in shock that they thought these where quality changes.
As for the fan police, you are will be put on ignore as soon as you post an idiotic reply.
When you start bashing a game and bring up how bad the balance is - use some proper grammar.
I just wanted to offer my opinion. This was the first phase of Beta that I participated in. I've been playing MMOs since The Realm and this has been my best experience since EQ. The game looked great and ran extremely smoothly (that says alot considering how most games are released these days) and the combat, while familar, was very good. I was not playing as a Warrior and I didn't get to play the level 35 content so I can't argue with the OP, but 1-20 was great and the Beta went very well for me.
Like a good accident, I cant help but not look away. Who's crying over balancing steps that are taking place in beta because they researched and chose the flavor of the week?
They may as well get used to it, with the sheer amount of combinations possible within the classes rebalancing is going to be a continual thing. Much like in Champions Online- there will be new FotW combinations with every update.
I actually didn't read the patch notes before I played, but immediatley felt the difference, then I went and read the patch notes, I was kind of in shock that they thought these where quality changes.
As for the fan police, you are will be put on ignore as soon as you post an idiotic reply.
While i agree with you that beta 6 was worse than beta 5 for the class imbalances, warriors are still kings of dps. They're still OP as Riftblade/Champion in PVP even after the nerf. The damage they're capable of doing along with their high HP and CC abilities makes them ridiculous.
I fully expect a boost to mages and melee clerics next patch to bring them up to par. And while i hate to admit it since i have a few i run with, i fully expect at least a slight nerf to Wardens. Even they agree they're impossible to kill without a Void Night.
Seriously you people must be really bad if you think the PVE is hard. I on my Warrior could easily take on 3 mobs at level 35 in a DPS spec or 5+ mobs in a tank spec. On my Necro/lock I could take on 4-5.
The buffs to PVE mobs were much needed as stuff was just way to easy. The instances and rifts should still be harder as far as I am concerned.
Beta 6 in my opinion was the worst of the Beta's however just b/c they listened to much crying and revamped the racials into useless out of combat garbage, made town guards on PVP servers ridiculously strong, and made invasions/rifts auto despawn after a set amount of time.
Been playing since Beta 1 and honestly the game has gone downhil at this point
I only have one question - how in the HELL can you call any change in BETA a nerf? Its not even set in stone what will be there in live until its set in stone when it goes live. Any change up until then is simply a change.
And yeah, even though I feel the cleric class has been neglected in a lot of the review, I do see a couple of combos that in thier own right are just plain deadly. The OP complaining about dying to anything with 3 and up, well yeah your not supposed to try and take on 9 mobs by yourself ya fool! Ok, well unless your an AOE spec Inquisitor that is with awesome heals and a couple shields to keep ya up.
Really though, nothing got a nerf because nothing was ever set in stone to be nerfed.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I'm wondering this too. Clerics got nerfed in Beta 6. Just read the official forums. It's a hot topic. Perhaps beta 7 will swing the balance bat the other way a tad. I hope they are doing this to find the sweet spot of fun vs. challenge.
Nobody saw anything wrong with a tank that can out DPS a mage (not saying much in this game however), out DPSing a rogue, all while being...well a tank?
I dont think clerics are terribly over powerd, its just they are such a versatile class, with so many options on what role to play, its difficult encountering a cleric, you dont know if your getting a melee tank, a healer, or a caster DPS. They do it all competativly, you really cant go wrong as a cleric.
Rogues have been recieving buffs, and i think they are trying to make melee rogues compete with their high DPS, high survivability tank counterparts. This is needed. Their range DPS is best in game, and can do it mobil, you can kite. They are fast running too...a huge advantage in pvp, but really the typical ranged DPS rogue style and it fits well.
Mages got more nerfs, pet nerfs and skill damage nerfs.......really....... they dont want mages to have any other role other than support and CC. Ill be surprised if they buff mages for next beta, this class needs a lot of work, it benefits from none of the added role versatility that other classes gained with this whole role blurring soul system. Infact they lost viable roles. Mages in Rift are literally what the Magus was in warhammer, aside from the stationary pet, ours are at least mobil.
They need to do the balancing NOW, not after open beta and not after launch when mages are bitching about being shunned from endgame activities. Its already gone on long enough with the balance issues, and the longer they wait, the more anger its going to cause, as people choose their class of choice for launch based on whats OP now.
I honestly think the best way to balance rift is to completely remove mages, and give melee rogues one hell of a DPS boost to compete with the tanks. Do that and the balance is solved. Or they can piss off everyone who isnt interested in a mage, and give them the most epic DPS boost ever created, to make them competative as a DPS role, despite they lack any burst dps mechanics. Rarely can they survive long enough to cast more than 2 decent damage skills, not nearly enough to kill someone with the lowest of HP pool and magic resist.
Afte getting done with Beta 6 I came out of it feeling very annoyed and frustrated. I found the level 35 content to be very tedious and very boring. The overal nerf to warriors was felt by many on the server I played, and it effected the pve and pvp in such way that I've cancelled the pre-order until beta 7.
The Overpowered clerics in beta 6, the rogues who can kill heavy armor characters in 4 hits, makes no sense to me. I come from a Shadowbane background, and I'm simply used to the points system to make sense. HAving 3500k armory as a warrior means very little to the pve world and the pvp apsect of the game.
I've seen this unbalanced PVP before, in Age of Conan. In Aoc , the top guild will rule the server, will have all the top gear first making it impossible for new players to even think about obtain those goals. Rift has the same downfall, sadly the amount of time it takes to farm for Planar gear and or PVP gear, is more time then I am willing to give a game in the state such as Rift.
The PVE@ at 35 is tedious, boring and you will usually die with more then 3 mobs on you, it is more group oriented leaving solo slayers like myself who rarely joins guilds or groups out in the cold. If you like group oriented environment then you would like Rift in it's current State. I do like grouping, but not for every quest to max level, it is just annoying to deal with people sometimes.
I was a Rift fan from beta 4 to 5, but beta 6 has completely lost me, I don't understand where the changes came from and I have a hard time beleiving that the developers thought the changes where good ones. This also questions the ability of Rift developers to makes concisive desisions regarding balance in PVE and PVP.
Balancing issues is just something you have to count in when you play a beta, there will be nerfs and buffs like this until the game releases. By now it should be the main point of beta testing, they have already cleant out the bugs so it is this and optimization to get it run smotly on all computers and OSes.
It is more worrysome that you thought PvE lvl 35 boring. That you die with many mobs on you in itself isn't neccesarily bad but it depends if it is possible to pull them one or one or not. The idea that a single warrior can beat down a zerg is pretty silly but a game like Rift still needs to have fun gameplay for soloplayers.
The PvP issue is something that will happen in any gear focused game, if you want even playfield you have to wait for GW2 that is focusing on different things instead (mainly selection of skills). Lets just say AoCs PvP got a lot worse after they made gear matter more, best gear wins a lot easier now.
Don't worry about balance, it will be solved soon and in worst case a while after release. It is pretty hard work for the devs but it is being done. The other 2 issues is stuff you will need to live with or find another game, the PvE might become better as they patch the game in however but the PvP thing will remain.
It just isn't possible to make a game that focuses on gear and then expect PvP to be even no matter how balanced the classes are, some people will spend the time to grind the best gear no matter how much work it is.
Rift have it's strong and weak points like any game, it is up to any players to see if they think the game is fun enough to play or not.
The problem with most games and balancing isnt the same as the issues here in rift.
In other games, all classes had a specific role, which they preformed either too well, or not well enough.
Rift has blurred the lines on class role. Its not a question of if a mage can preform its usual role of top DD, it must now compete with classes that are tanks, rogues that can tank, clerics with DD spells and DOT's. All the survivability classes have gailed the option to be competative in DD roles. They gained. Mages remain short lived, but now falls victem to even the highest of survivability classes, they all can out DPS a mage in battle. A mage has no role other than CC and support, however other classes can CC as well.
These balance issues are not simply, oh we can add a bit of damage to a mages spells and it will be balanced. It wont matter, the role of the mage is now in the hands of clerics, rogues, and tanks.
The reverse of this option would be to give mages axes, huge health pools, and plate armor, while at the same time removing a warriors ability to wear plate armor. A mage can now tank better than a warrior, but keeps its typical high damage nukes and cc. A warrior is now a sword weilding cloth wearer, unable to tank, unable to live long enough to DPS. Why be a warrior when you can be a class that does it better and does better damage while doing it?
Thats the problem in rift, its not just a simple balancing act that is needed, Class roles are a mess, leaving one class without a role.
I spent close to 40 hours trying to get a decent Warrior spec, the only 3 I couild come up with :
PVE : Reaver / Paladini/warlord
PVE :Beas tMaster(fully specced) / paladin
PVP : V. Knight / Paladin / Warlord.
Out of the 3 builds only one was fun to play, I spent a long time and it is so annoying that with the current changes, players are forced to use certain souls if they want to compete in PVP. My playing style is full on tank, it is what I do the best in every mmo I play and as is, with the warrior souls, there is no tank class. You are either a utility or full on DPS. Alot of people had success with Paragon, but that class was not working with my gaming style of playing.
Another aspect I didn't mention, no skill queuing, you literal either make a macro , or wait for the skill global to stop fully, it makes it all the more tedious. Playing LotRO I have come a custom to be able to think one step a head, With Rift, you are stuck @ 2 second cool downs with out beable to quue your next skill.
There aree other apsects that I could go on with but will disccuss if people are interested..
You can que your next skill in Rift, I figured it out just yesterday when I was tweaking and checking out the settings. I can't remember under which settings tab it is at exactly, but just go to the Game Settings and under Interface. Search around on there. It made playing a lot easier for me and being able to instantly cast the next spell in line without the lag of human error in the process of trying to click it after the cool down.
I spent close to 40 hours trying to get a decent Warrior spec, the only 3 I couild come up with :
PVE : Reaver / Paladini/warlord
PVE :Beas tMaster(fully specced) / paladin
PVP : V. Knight / Paladin / Warlord.
Out of the 3 builds only one was fun to play, I spent a long time and it is so annoying that with the current changes, players are forced to use certain souls if they want to compete in PVP. My playing style is full on tank, it is what I do the best in every mmo I play and as is, with the warrior souls, there is no tank class. You are either a utility or full on DPS. Alot of people had success with Paragon, but that class was not working with my gaming style of playing.
Another aspect I didn't mention, no skill queuing, you literal either make a macro , or wait for the skill global to stop fully, it makes it all the more tedious. Playing LotRO I have come a custom to be able to think one step a head, With Rift, you are stuck @ 2 second cool downs with out beable to quue your next skill.
There aree other apsects that I could go on with but will disccuss if people are interested..
You can que your next skill in Rift, I figured it out just yesterday when I was tweaking and checking out the settings. I can't remember under which settings tab it is at exactly, but just go to the Game Settings and under Interface. Search around on there. It made playing a lot easier for me and being able to instantly cast the next spell in line without the lag of human error in the process of trying to click it after the cool down.
It's in the misc page bottom right under auto aoe looting...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Scarwood Reach I found multiple quests that triggered randomly through spawns that happened to be there, items or triggers while doing other quests. There are chain quests. That is completely true, but not all quests are in a chain.
Tons of stand alone quests, get out there and explore the world before making sweeping comments you have no clue about
THe reality of Rifts class balance issues comming home to roost.
Beta 5 my warrior DD was out DPS ing all my mage DD souls, and he was a few level below my mage. Beta 6 they are about on par with eachother, with the mage edging out with crits and several proc abilities.
They buffed rogues this beta, because dual weild DD tanks were out DPSing melee rogues, you know assasins.
Clerics, while not exceeding above any class in DPS, have the heals and survivability on their side. There really isnt anything a cleric does terribly in Rift.
Compared to all the other classes, the lowly mage still does about average DPS, except for cetain situations, usually involving people ignore the mage, or fights that are not too short (they dont have ANY means of burst dps other than a instant cast proc while casting a slow casting nuke) and if the fights are not too long, enough time to not eat up your mana (hard to do unless your constatly in combat for an extended period of time). They can rack up AOE total damage, but all the AOE's are brutally weak, and a warrior can do about the same in this department too.
So as it stands, clerics have the versatility, they can do ANY role in game well. Warriors are the DPS tanks, doing both DPS and tanking extremely well, even aftter the nerf. Rogues have the best range DPS in game, and their melee souls have been getting buffs each beta, you can assume when its all said and done that rogues may be the best range and melee dps.
Mages, well mages got nerfs in DPS, they are average in damage. However they excel in CC, and are somewhat useful in secondary support....oh and they can have a semi decent DD necro pet, thats really high maintainence to get the good DD from it. Oh but they still have their low survivability that they are famous for, they just took out the cannon for the glass cannons, and gave that cannon to the tanks.
At what levels are you implying "tanks tank well". Way to many people are sitting at level 25 or below saying everything is great, it is not until you reach level 30+ and start playing on Scarwood Ridge wher eyou start really seeing the problems facing the warrior. The Warrior was nerfed in a way that the combination of %'s and soul skills just aren't adding up to be effective. I'm a hardcore tanker, tank in ever game, I've seen every kind of tank you can imagine, and Rift's "tanks" and I use that term losely are anything but a tank. For the most part, a cleric is a way better tank, he can maintain aggro and insta heal himself with a magically never ending mana pool.
After deep Strike, I thought wow this is awesome, what a great class build I have, the Scarlet Gorge instance, I was feeling really good in beta 5. Beta 6 everything felt upside down and I simply in 40 hours couldnt get it to work .
I played a warrior to 35 spent tons of time in scarwood fighting pvp and never encountered any problem like you are complaining about. In group pvp, my warrior wins about 90% of my fights, solo about 70%, broken down thats right around 50% of my fights against other warriors, 50% against mages, 100% against rogues, and I dont even bother trying to pvp solo with clerics not worth the time or effort.
Other warriors seem to be whining because they balanced the game and now you are no longer gods of pvp.. if there is anyone with a right to complain it should be rogues, other than sabs, rogues are pathetically weak in both pve and pvp. Sure they rock range damage, but any warrior with any skill will negate that range and keep a rogue at melee reach. Ive never lost to a rogue.
Other side of the coin I have a rogue level 35 sab/marks/sin, had mages single hit me, warriors drop me in 4-6 hits, but against clerics I am pretty effective with silence and burst damage.
Basically the real issue to this thread is that they made a move to class balance and of course those that were OP before are now upset because they are more on level with everyone else.
There is a power issue for instance/raid healers but they could address that by maybe giving a power regen buff or maybe give bards a power regen song.
IMO the class balancing is a step in the right direction
The problem with most games and balancing isnt the same as the issues here in rift.
In other games, all classes had a specific role, which they preformed either too well, or not well enough.
Rift has blurred the lines on class role. Its not a question of if a mage can preform its usual role of top DD, it must now compete with classes that are tanks, rogues that can tank, clerics with DD spells and DOT's. All the survivability classes have gailed the option to be competative in DD roles. They gained. Mages remain short lived, but now falls victem to even the highest of survivability classes, they all can out DPS a mage in battle. A mage has no role other than CC and support, however other classes can CC as well.
These balance issues are not simply, oh we can add a bit of damage to a mages spells and it will be balanced. It wont matter, the role of the mage is now in the hands of clerics, rogues, and tanks.
The reverse of this option would be to give mages axes, huge health pools, and plate armor, while at the same time removing a warriors ability to wear plate armor. A mage can now tank better than a warrior, but keeps its typical high damage nukes and cc. A warrior is now a sword weilding cloth wearer, unable to tank, unable to live long enough to DPS. Why be a warrior when you can be a class that does it better and does better damage while doing it?
Thats the problem in rift, its not just a simple balancing act that is needed, Class roles are a mess, leaving one class without a role.
If your stuck on needing the holy trinity and specific class structure where you are forced to be one thing and one thing only. If you as a player require to be told how and what you must be, then yes Rift will be a problem for you.
{Mod Edit}
Mages are not the only class in every game which should be DPS, and to assume that that is the role they should always play is exactly why you believe they now have no role at all. I know several necro/chloro mages who play outstanding instance healers. Yes it is true, as a mage you will not be able to play main tank, but every other role is 100% viable.
I play a caster cleric DPS build myself, created specifically to mimic a mage in chain armor. Most of the time I dont even wear the chain armor though as the cloth gives me more spellpower. I play it this way as a choice, not because the mage is not capable of the output my cleric is, but because I wanted an RP smite cleric.
{Mod edit}
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Afte getting done with Beta 6 I came out of it feeling very annoyed and frustrated. I found the level 35 content to be very tedious and very boring. The overal nerf to warriors was felt by many on the server I played, and it effected the pve and pvp in such way that I've cancelled the pre-order until beta 7.
The Overpowered clerics in beta 6, the rogues who can kill heavy armor characters in 4 hits, makes no sense to me. I come from a Shadowbane background, and I'm simply used to the points system to make sense. HAving 3500k armory as a warrior means very little to the pve world and the pvp apsect of the game.
I've seen this unbalanced PVP before, in Age of Conan. In Aoc , the top guild will rule the server, will have all the top gear first making it impossible for new players to even think about obtain those goals. Rift has the same downfall, sadly the amount of time it takes to farm for Planar gear and or PVP gear, is more time then I am willing to give a game in the state such as Rift.
The PVE@ at 35 is tedious, boring and you will usually die with more then 3 mobs on you, it is more group oriented leaving solo slayers like myself who rarely joins guilds or groups out in the cold. If you like group oriented environment then you would like Rift in it's current State. I do like grouping, but not for every quest to max level, it is just annoying to deal with people sometimes.
I was a Rift fan from beta 4 to 5, but beta 6 has completely lost me, I don't understand where the changes came from and I have a hard time beleiving that the developers thought the changes where good ones. This also questions the ability of Rift developers to makes concisive desisions regarding balance in PVE and PVP.
Agreed.
I have not done PVP, but I felt the same in PVE. Not much soloability without much death in this game. It just isn't for what I seek. I felt the nerfs badly, just as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
in much of the story line and discription that were posted b 4 the game went into beta release,they discribed the cleric's role as a strong healer-fighter.The discription of the Justicar made me take it as my first soul,w/high elf race for the added benifit of Wisdom of the Ages for energy recharge in fights. I was very pleased to see RIFT make the cleric class with some fight rather than the whimpy stero-type of all other MMOs. Human real history has many real healer/fighting classes that could hold there own in battle-look at history of the Crusades for those ready to shoot me.
now i can not speak for the warrior class but i was well pleased with my cleric till Beta 6 when he was striped of Wisdom of the Ages which help the cleric fight and heal in combat,and to solo now as a cleric is very hard. I could only get to a little above lvl33 in beta 6 with the nerfing of the clerics. If RIFT keeps it this way i may as well cancel my pre-order. I hope the balance ALL class in a more logical manner and once again leave the sterotypes on the roadside. The cleric class b 4 beta 6 showed RIFT was not going to follow others.
Comments
Beta 6 was bad in the aspect that about 20% of the folks who were in beta got locked out due to some technical errors taht trion had. I know several folks including me who all had the you are not authorized. It took all weekend to fix.
By the time I got my account fixed the beta was over.
But reading the patch notes and found the nerf to wariors using the build that I had, I was not happy about that either. We not even released yet and already some classes and trees are getting nerfed.
Trion shouldn't have let the masses in. It was a mistake. People really want to get their hands on the game and I understand why, but there is so much crap circulating now it's just terrible. They weren't prepared for the overwhelming amounts of people that would be trying to get in, and it WAS as a stress test.
I would say please nerf the classes and souls now, and definitely not after release... and most of the nerfs have come about from people QQing, I'm just saying. It is a BETA so things are supposed to change. Sorry.
Like a good accident, I cant help but not look away. Who's crying over balancing steps that are taking place in beta because they researched and chose the flavor of the week?
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
I found a really good rogue build that I will use when the game goes live. As for warriors, I duo with one and he took more of a beating from an elite than he should have in beta 6, so yeah maybe they were nerfed too much.
I expect they'll be making class balance changes till the day the servers get turned off. If they (Trion) are any good, that is.
When you start bashing a game and bring up how bad the balance is - use some proper grammar.
I just wanted to offer my opinion. This was the first phase of Beta that I participated in. I've been playing MMOs since The Realm and this has been my best experience since EQ. The game looked great and ran extremely smoothly (that says alot considering how most games are released these days) and the combat, while familar, was very good. I was not playing as a Warrior and I didn't get to play the level 35 content so I can't argue with the OP, but 1-20 was great and the Beta went very well for me.
They may as well get used to it, with the sheer amount of combinations possible within the classes rebalancing is going to be a continual thing. Much like in Champions Online- there will be new FotW combinations with every update.
While i agree with you that beta 6 was worse than beta 5 for the class imbalances, warriors are still kings of dps. They're still OP as Riftblade/Champion in PVP even after the nerf. The damage they're capable of doing along with their high HP and CC abilities makes them ridiculous.
I fully expect a boost to mages and melee clerics next patch to bring them up to par. And while i hate to admit it since i have a few i run with, i fully expect at least a slight nerf to Wardens. Even they agree they're impossible to kill without a Void Night.
Seriously you people must be really bad if you think the PVE is hard. I on my Warrior could easily take on 3 mobs at level 35 in a DPS spec or 5+ mobs in a tank spec. On my Necro/lock I could take on 4-5.
The buffs to PVE mobs were much needed as stuff was just way to easy. The instances and rifts should still be harder as far as I am concerned.
Beta 6 in my opinion was the worst of the Beta's however just b/c they listened to much crying and revamped the racials into useless out of combat garbage, made town guards on PVP servers ridiculously strong, and made invasions/rifts auto despawn after a set amount of time.
Been playing since Beta 1 and honestly the game has gone downhil at this point
I only have one question - how in the HELL can you call any change in BETA a nerf? Its not even set in stone what will be there in live until its set in stone when it goes live. Any change up until then is simply a change.
And yeah, even though I feel the cleric class has been neglected in a lot of the review, I do see a couple of combos that in thier own right are just plain deadly. The OP complaining about dying to anything with 3 and up, well yeah your not supposed to try and take on 9 mobs by yourself ya fool! Ok, well unless your an AOE spec Inquisitor that is with awesome heals and a couple shields to keep ya up.
Really though, nothing got a nerf because nothing was ever set in stone to be nerfed.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I'm wondering this too. Clerics got nerfed in Beta 6. Just read the official forums. It's a hot topic. Perhaps beta 7 will swing the balance bat the other way a tad. I hope they are doing this to find the sweet spot of fun vs. challenge.
Really, no one saw the warrior nerf comming?
Nobody saw anything wrong with a tank that can out DPS a mage (not saying much in this game however), out DPSing a rogue, all while being...well a tank?
I dont think clerics are terribly over powerd, its just they are such a versatile class, with so many options on what role to play, its difficult encountering a cleric, you dont know if your getting a melee tank, a healer, or a caster DPS. They do it all competativly, you really cant go wrong as a cleric.
Rogues have been recieving buffs, and i think they are trying to make melee rogues compete with their high DPS, high survivability tank counterparts. This is needed. Their range DPS is best in game, and can do it mobil, you can kite. They are fast running too...a huge advantage in pvp, but really the typical ranged DPS rogue style and it fits well.
Mages got more nerfs, pet nerfs and skill damage nerfs.......really....... they dont want mages to have any other role other than support and CC. Ill be surprised if they buff mages for next beta, this class needs a lot of work, it benefits from none of the added role versatility that other classes gained with this whole role blurring soul system. Infact they lost viable roles. Mages in Rift are literally what the Magus was in warhammer, aside from the stationary pet, ours are at least mobil.
They need to do the balancing NOW, not after open beta and not after launch when mages are bitching about being shunned from endgame activities. Its already gone on long enough with the balance issues, and the longer they wait, the more anger its going to cause, as people choose their class of choice for launch based on whats OP now.
I honestly think the best way to balance rift is to completely remove mages, and give melee rogues one hell of a DPS boost to compete with the tanks. Do that and the balance is solved. Or they can piss off everyone who isnt interested in a mage, and give them the most epic DPS boost ever created, to make them competative as a DPS role, despite they lack any burst dps mechanics. Rarely can they survive long enough to cast more than 2 decent damage skills, not nearly enough to kill someone with the lowest of HP pool and magic resist.
Balancing issues is just something you have to count in when you play a beta, there will be nerfs and buffs like this until the game releases. By now it should be the main point of beta testing, they have already cleant out the bugs so it is this and optimization to get it run smotly on all computers and OSes.
It is more worrysome that you thought PvE lvl 35 boring. That you die with many mobs on you in itself isn't neccesarily bad but it depends if it is possible to pull them one or one or not. The idea that a single warrior can beat down a zerg is pretty silly but a game like Rift still needs to have fun gameplay for soloplayers.
The PvP issue is something that will happen in any gear focused game, if you want even playfield you have to wait for GW2 that is focusing on different things instead (mainly selection of skills). Lets just say AoCs PvP got a lot worse after they made gear matter more, best gear wins a lot easier now.
Don't worry about balance, it will be solved soon and in worst case a while after release. It is pretty hard work for the devs but it is being done. The other 2 issues is stuff you will need to live with or find another game, the PvE might become better as they patch the game in however but the PvP thing will remain.
It just isn't possible to make a game that focuses on gear and then expect PvP to be even no matter how balanced the classes are, some people will spend the time to grind the best gear no matter how much work it is.
Rift have it's strong and weak points like any game, it is up to any players to see if they think the game is fun enough to play or not.
The problem with most games and balancing isnt the same as the issues here in rift.
In other games, all classes had a specific role, which they preformed either too well, or not well enough.
Rift has blurred the lines on class role. Its not a question of if a mage can preform its usual role of top DD, it must now compete with classes that are tanks, rogues that can tank, clerics with DD spells and DOT's. All the survivability classes have gailed the option to be competative in DD roles. They gained. Mages remain short lived, but now falls victem to even the highest of survivability classes, they all can out DPS a mage in battle. A mage has no role other than CC and support, however other classes can CC as well.
These balance issues are not simply, oh we can add a bit of damage to a mages spells and it will be balanced. It wont matter, the role of the mage is now in the hands of clerics, rogues, and tanks.
The reverse of this option would be to give mages axes, huge health pools, and plate armor, while at the same time removing a warriors ability to wear plate armor. A mage can now tank better than a warrior, but keeps its typical high damage nukes and cc. A warrior is now a sword weilding cloth wearer, unable to tank, unable to live long enough to DPS. Why be a warrior when you can be a class that does it better and does better damage while doing it?
Thats the problem in rift, its not just a simple balancing act that is needed, Class roles are a mess, leaving one class without a role.
You can que your next skill in Rift, I figured it out just yesterday when I was tweaking and checking out the settings. I can't remember under which settings tab it is at exactly, but just go to the Game Settings and under Interface. Search around on there. It made playing a lot easier for me and being able to instantly cast the next spell in line without the lag of human error in the process of trying to click it after the cool down.
It's in the misc page bottom right under auto aoe looting...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Tons of stand alone quests, get out there and explore the world before making sweeping comments you have no clue about
I played a warrior to 35 spent tons of time in scarwood fighting pvp and never encountered any problem like you are complaining about. In group pvp, my warrior wins about 90% of my fights, solo about 70%, broken down thats right around 50% of my fights against other warriors, 50% against mages, 100% against rogues, and I dont even bother trying to pvp solo with clerics not worth the time or effort.
Other warriors seem to be whining because they balanced the game and now you are no longer gods of pvp.. if there is anyone with a right to complain it should be rogues, other than sabs, rogues are pathetically weak in both pve and pvp. Sure they rock range damage, but any warrior with any skill will negate that range and keep a rogue at melee reach. Ive never lost to a rogue.
Other side of the coin I have a rogue level 35 sab/marks/sin, had mages single hit me, warriors drop me in 4-6 hits, but against clerics I am pretty effective with silence and burst damage.
Basically the real issue to this thread is that they made a move to class balance and of course those that were OP before are now upset because they are more on level with everyone else.
There is a power issue for instance/raid healers but they could address that by maybe giving a power regen buff or maybe give bards a power regen song.
IMO the class balancing is a step in the right direction
If your stuck on needing the holy trinity and specific class structure where you are forced to be one thing and one thing only. If you as a player require to be told how and what you must be, then yes Rift will be a problem for you.
{Mod Edit}
Mages are not the only class in every game which should be DPS, and to assume that that is the role they should always play is exactly why you believe they now have no role at all. I know several necro/chloro mages who play outstanding instance healers. Yes it is true, as a mage you will not be able to play main tank, but every other role is 100% viable.
I play a caster cleric DPS build myself, created specifically to mimic a mage in chain armor. Most of the time I dont even wear the chain armor though as the cloth gives me more spellpower. I play it this way as a choice, not because the mage is not capable of the output my cleric is, but because I wanted an RP smite cleric.
{Mod edit}
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Agreed.
I have not done PVP, but I felt the same in PVE. Not much soloability without much death in this game. It just isn't for what I seek. I felt the nerfs badly, just as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
in much of the story line and discription that were posted b 4 the game went into beta release,they discribed the cleric's role as a strong healer-fighter.The discription of the Justicar made me take it as my first soul,w/high elf race for the added benifit of Wisdom of the Ages for energy recharge in fights. I was very pleased to see RIFT make the cleric class with some fight rather than the whimpy stero-type of all other MMOs. Human real history has many real healer/fighting classes that could hold there own in battle-look at history of the Crusades for those ready to shoot me.
now i can not speak for the warrior class but i was well pleased with my cleric till Beta 6 when he was striped of Wisdom of the Ages which help the cleric fight and heal in combat,and to solo now as a cleric is very hard. I could only get to a little above lvl33 in beta 6 with the nerfing of the clerics. If RIFT keeps it this way i may as well cancel my pre-order. I hope the balance ALL class in a more logical manner and once again leave the sterotypes on the roadside. The cleric class b 4 beta 6 showed RIFT was not going to follow others.