Lost Dungeons introduces the concept of zone instancing to EverQuest, by means of the expansion's new "adventure" system. Similar to the randomly generated missions of games like Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies, adventures in Lost Dungeons are missions exclusively assigned to the player groups who accept them. ..... Gamespot source
Each dungeon is tailored to challenge the average level of your party. If you have a bunch of upper level characters, the dungeon will meet their level. But lower level players need not worry - the dungeons will customize the content to challenge them as well without subjugating them to the same dangers that a group of level 50-plus avatars would face......pc.gamezone source
I don't know what you mean by FPS (sort of) for Fallen Earth. While TR fits since it was an aimed autolock, FE has pretty normal aim to shoot like an F/TPS, even with most powers.
Dying clothes it is dyeing. Dying clothes would be clothes you wear when you are dead or about to be killed.
Appearance tabs: your avatar looks in clothes can be different from the gear you're actually using
first: EQ2
seen in: EQ2, Lotro, SWG, DCUO, Aion,
Achievements
first: Planetside
seen in: Planetside, SWG, LotrO, WAR, WoW (I think it was implemented in WoW because WAR had it, for it was right after), COX, Fallen Earth
CoX has a very extensive achievement system. Called badges. Some even give powers, but are rare.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Please remove "Done best in - GW2" for dying armor as this is absolutely ridiculous to add a "done best" to a game that is not even released in a beta form currently. It kills the validity of the entire thread for me, so let's remove it!
Also, Please add Runes of Magic to "As seen in" for :Multiclass
Housing I would personally add "done best in: UO" to rule out any silly instance housing systems. That's just my taste. If not UO, then the only other possible option really would be SWG am I right? That was some sick housing too.
Good thread otherwise!
I admit, I was a bit premature regarding GW2. But I had a good argument for adding it, if you read their approach to dyes as you can read in this blog article, then I'd say they're a good candidate for 'done best', especially what could already been seen as dye jobs ingame from the demos. I haven't seen it implemented like that to that extent and depth in other MMO's.
I'll add RoM, SWG was I think maybe the one that did player cities best (or maybe AO?).
Originally posted by cheyane
Each dungeon is tailored to challenge the average level of your party. If you have a bunch of upper level characters, the dungeon will meet their level. But lower level players need not worry - the dungeons will customize the content to challenge them as well without subjugating them to the same dangers that a group of level 50-plus avatars would face......
Ah, I see. Like the level tailored dungeons in LotrO, right?
Good point, I'll add them as a category. I didn't know EQ had it first.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Crafting - First seen in Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot
For player housing add Dark Age of Camelot
also, Auction House I believe was in DAoC before FF.
And ship combat, add Darkfall and Dark Age of Camelot.
Note how WoW is missing most features, never created a feature, and never did a feature "best"?
Bumping!
Heh, too many updates and suggestions, must've missed this one (probably some more suggestions from others too)
They're added now.
WoW has 'phasing' which as good as no other MMO has, and certainly not to the extent that WoW uses. Also I'd commend its Battlegrounds, which I can't recall any other MMORPG doing like that let alone doing it better. That is, until GW2 from ANet comes out, their World vs World PvP has the potential to trump any RvR or battlegrounds type of PvP.
I've rated SWG as 'crafting done best' unless people have other better suggestions.
I'd say that so far STO's Foundry looks to be best in the category 'player created quests and quest generation tooling'
LotRO had phasing before WoW did, they just didn't abuse it to the point where it destroyed the MMO feel. Same could be said for the first MMOs that used instances before WoW and LotRO abused and overused them to shore up the weaknesses in their game design.
As for Battlegrounds, that idea was lifted directly from Dark Age of Camelot, which had battlegrounds as early as 2001. Sadly WoW BGs are much worse than the DAoC battlegrounds were. BGs in DAoC were warmups for full scale RvR, the battleground zones were level dependent and in their own zone, but not instanced. As many people as you wanted could go in, and the zone would stay persistant, with objectives differing depending on the zone. Primarily, there was a Central Keep that the 3 sides would fight over and gain bonuses for their realm by controling. I have many fond memories of honing my PvP skills there before I got to big boy RvR. Crowning moment was defending the BG2(lvl 25-29) keep by myself against 13 other plays until help showed up.
Also, their World vs World PvP has potential, they are lacking in Realm Pride. You're just fighting other people, not another realm, and it changes every week or so, so you never build up a hatred for your rivals, and none of your conquests stay or matter. So no, it has potential to be good, but without the realm pride, the persistant keeps, or the massive array of naval and siege weapons, it likely won't pass DAoC.
Ah yes, there is some resemblance between WoW's battlegrounds and DaoC, but personally I found DAoC on a whole other level and category than WoW regarding this.
No MMORPG has done RvR and everything that comes with it as good as DAoC, although I also enjoyed my time in Planetside.
Originally posted by astoria
Corrections, additions:
I don't know what you mean by FPS (sort of) for Fallen Earth. While TR fits since it was an aimed autolock, FE has pretty normal aim to shoot like an F/TPS, even with most powers.
Dying clothes it is dyeing. Dying clothes would be clothes you wear when you are dead or about to be killed.
Lol, you're right, that's a whole other meaning than 'dyeing' clothes, I'll correct it.
As for the FPS combat in FE, I read somewhere that it wasn't 100% 'true' FPS targeting, when I played it it felt a bit 'off' so that's why I thought it was maybe a pseudo FPS mechanism like TR used. If it's 100% true FPS/TPS targeting, then I'll change it.
I played Aion, but I can't recall an appearance tab. Is it a later addition?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ah yes, there is some resemblance between WoW's battlegrounds and DaoC, but personally I found DAoC on a whole other level and category than WoW regarding this.
No MMORPG has done RvR and everything that comes with it as good as DAoC, although I also enjoyed my time in Planetside.
I have high hopes for GW2 RvR. It's looking like a solid game so far. But I'm afraid that it's still too different from DAoC for me to fully enjoy :P
I believe gw2 also has tailored dungeons but Anet refers to it as scaling (which makes more sense IMO). I don't remember where it might have been said but I will try to find a link.
Edit: Yup, found confirmation.
"All dungeon levels are fixed, so whenever you enter a dungeon of a level lower than your own, you will automatically scale down with the appropriate stats and weapon strengths."
I believe gw2 also has tailored dungeons but Anet refers to it as scaling (which makes more sense IMO). I don't remember where it might have been said but I will try to find a link.
Edit: Yup, found confirmation.
"All dungeon levels are fixed, so whenever you enter a dungeon of a level lower than your own, you will automatically scale down with the appropriate stats and weapon strengths."
Seriously? Ugh. That may be enough to make me not touch the game. That doesn't make any sense in the context of a game world. But then again, MMO companies don't make persistant virtual worlds anymore I guess. Might as well not bother with having an overworld.
I believe gw2 also has tailored dungeons but Anet refers to it as scaling (which makes more sense IMO). I don't remember where it might have been said but I will try to find a link.
Edit: Yup, found confirmation.
"All dungeon levels are fixed, so whenever you enter a dungeon of a level lower than your own, you will automatically scale down with the appropriate stats and weapon strengths."
Seriously? Ugh. That may be enough to make me not touch the game. That doesn't make any sense in the context of a game world. But then again, MMO companies don't make persistant virtual worlds anymore I guess. Might as well not bother with having an overworld.
Whats so bad about it? It makes it so you can't run through the dungeon and 1-shot everything and the entire experience is still challenging and fun. If you like being extremely over powered compared to all the mobs I suggest you go somewhere else because some people actually like the game to be challenging no matter what level they are or where they are playing in-game.
1) I think you should make a section for "level scaling". I don't know if there are any other games that do this but gw2 has a mechanic that scales higher level people down if they participate in lower level dynamic events, and there is also a sidekicking system that allows lower level people with higher level friends to be temporarily sidekicked up to their friends level.
(can't find a link right now, will post one when i find it)
2) I think you should also make a section for games that have dungeons that change every time you do it (or at some other point in time). For example, in gw2 the first time you do a dungeon you do its story mode and then every time after that you do the explorer modes which are different every time. Rift also has a system like this but slightly different. From what I have read you do the dungeon once and every time after that is the same except once you hit level 50 (I think) another part of the dungeon is revealed.
3) You should also do another section about mini-games. I know gw2 is planning to have plenty of mini-games in it such as a shooting gallery, bar brawl, snow ball fight etc.
Other MMO's you can get sidekicked to up to their level. Level scaling downwards whenever you enter a lower level region I haven't seen used in MMO's, I guess GW2 will be the first. I added the first 2 categories, I can't recall any MMO that had it before GW2.
@Kruul: AO was earlier with Auction Houses than FFXI? Alright, I'll add it to the OP.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Non Tabbed FPS combat was Meridian 59 , the very first 3d mmorpg.
I played Meridian59 very, very shortly, but it was a long while ago. I can't recall its combat being FPS-style, like a Doom or Quake in that same time period. I can be wrong of course, but are you certain it was there from the start, and not added later?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Depends on what you consider scaling. I know if you are under the level of the PVP area you enter you will get bumped up to the cap for that area.
I'd say that if you automatically scale towards the appropriate needed level without needing to be sidekicked by another player, then it qualifies. GW2 seems to be the first to level scale you down in PvE areas, but automatic level scaling upwards fall under the same category.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Lost Dungeons introduces the concept of zone instancing to EverQuest, by means of the expansion's new "adventure" system. Similar to the randomly generated missions of games like Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies, adventures in Lost Dungeons are missions exclusively assigned to the player groups who accept them. ..... Gamespot source
Each dungeon is tailored to challenge the average level of your party. If you have a bunch of upper level characters, the dungeon will meet their level. But lower level players need not worry - the dungeons will customize the content to challenge them as well without subjugating them to the same dangers that a group of level 50-plus avatars would face......pc.gamezone source
It is designed for the group.
Corrections, additions:
I don't know what you mean by FPS (sort of) for Fallen Earth. While TR fits since it was an aimed autolock, FE has pretty normal aim to shoot like an F/TPS, even with most powers.
Dying clothes it is dyeing. Dying clothes would be clothes you wear when you are dead or about to be killed.
Appearance tabs: your avatar looks in clothes can be different from the gear you're actually using
first: EQ2
seen in: EQ2, Lotro, SWG, DCUO, Aion,
Achievements
first: Planetside
seen in: Planetside, SWG, LotrO, WAR, WoW (I think it was implemented in WoW because WAR had it, for it was right after), COX, Fallen Earth
CoX has a very extensive achievement system. Called badges. Some even give powers, but are rare.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
You should also add Runes of Magic to the multiclass section.
http://us.runesofmagic.com/us/classes,dualclasssystem,en.html
Add EQ to dyeing cloth, achievements, and player housing.
Add Vanguard to ship.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
I admit, I was a bit premature regarding GW2. But I had a good argument for adding it, if you read their approach to dyes as you can read in this blog article, then I'd say they're a good candidate for 'done best', especially what could already been seen as dye jobs ingame from the demos. I haven't seen it implemented like that to that extent and depth in other MMO's.
I'll add RoM, SWG was I think maybe the one that did player cities best (or maybe AO?).
Ah, I see. Like the level tailored dungeons in LotrO, right?
Good point, I'll add them as a category. I didn't know EQ had it first.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
LotRO had phasing before WoW did, they just didn't abuse it to the point where it destroyed the MMO feel. Same could be said for the first MMOs that used instances before WoW and LotRO abused and overused them to shore up the weaknesses in their game design.
As for Battlegrounds, that idea was lifted directly from Dark Age of Camelot, which had battlegrounds as early as 2001. Sadly WoW BGs are much worse than the DAoC battlegrounds were. BGs in DAoC were warmups for full scale RvR, the battleground zones were level dependent and in their own zone, but not instanced. As many people as you wanted could go in, and the zone would stay persistant, with objectives differing depending on the zone. Primarily, there was a Central Keep that the 3 sides would fight over and gain bonuses for their realm by controling. I have many fond memories of honing my PvP skills there before I got to big boy RvR. Crowning moment was defending the BG2(lvl 25-29) keep by myself against 13 other plays until help showed up.
Also, their World vs World PvP has potential, they are lacking in Realm Pride. You're just fighting other people, not another realm, and it changes every week or so, so you never build up a hatred for your rivals, and none of your conquests stay or matter. So no, it has potential to be good, but without the realm pride, the persistant keeps, or the massive array of naval and siege weapons, it likely won't pass DAoC.
Dynamic events: Tabula Rasa, enemies attacked bases and took control if no-one was defending, then players could attack and take the control back.
Ah yes, there is some resemblance between WoW's battlegrounds and DaoC, but personally I found DAoC on a whole other level and category than WoW regarding this.
No MMORPG has done RvR and everything that comes with it as good as DAoC, although I also enjoyed my time in Planetside.
Lol, you're right, that's a whole other meaning than 'dyeing' clothes, I'll correct it.
As for the FPS combat in FE, I read somewhere that it wasn't 100% 'true' FPS targeting, when I played it it felt a bit 'off' so that's why I thought it was maybe a pseudo FPS mechanism like TR used. If it's 100% true FPS/TPS targeting, then I'll change it.
I played Aion, but I can't recall an appearance tab. Is it a later addition?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have high hopes for GW2 RvR. It's looking like a solid game so far. But I'm afraid that it's still too different from DAoC for me to fully enjoy :P
I believe gw2 also has tailored dungeons but Anet refers to it as scaling (which makes more sense IMO). I don't remember where it might have been said but I will try to find a link.
Edit: Yup, found confirmation.
"All dungeon levels are fixed, so whenever you enter a dungeon of a level lower than your own, you will automatically scale down with the appropriate stats and weapon strengths."
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/20/guild-wars-2-the-kitchen-sink-post/2/
Auction houses were first seen in AO(Anarchy Online) released 2001 a full year before FFXI
Seriously? Ugh. That may be enough to make me not touch the game. That doesn't make any sense in the context of a game world. But then again, MMO companies don't make persistant virtual worlds anymore I guess. Might as well not bother with having an overworld.
Whats so bad about it? It makes it so you can't run through the dungeon and 1-shot everything and the entire experience is still challenging and fun. If you like being extremely over powered compared to all the mobs I suggest you go somewhere else because some people actually like the game to be challenging no matter what level they are or where they are playing in-game.
1) I think you should make a section for "level scaling". I don't know if there are any other games that do this but gw2 has a mechanic that scales higher level people down if they participate in lower level dynamic events, and there is also a sidekicking system that allows lower level people with higher level friends to be temporarily sidekicked up to their friends level.
(can't find a link right now, will post one when i find it)
2) I think you should also make a section for games that have dungeons that change every time you do it (or at some other point in time). For example, in gw2 the first time you do a dungeon you do its story mode and then every time after that you do the explorer modes which are different every time. Rift also has a system like this but slightly different. From what I have read you do the dungeon once and every time after that is the same except once you hit level 50 (I think) another part of the dungeon is revealed.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/19/guild-wars-2-exclusive-dungeon-reveals/ This article mentions the dungeon modes.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/20/guild-wars-2-the-kitchen-sink-post/2/ This article talks about it more.
3) You should also do another section about mini-games. I know gw2 is planning to have plenty of mini-games in it such as a shooting gallery, bar brawl, snow ball fight etc.
http://www.arena.net/blog/activities-games-within-the-game
I also believe that gw1 had a card game called polymock in it. I think FFXI might have also had a card game in it too.
Other MMO's you can get sidekicked to up to their level. Level scaling downwards whenever you enter a lower level region I haven't seen used in MMO's, I guess GW2 will be the first. I added the first 2 categories, I can't recall any MMO that had it before GW2.
@Kruul: AO was earlier with Auction Houses than FFXI? Alright, I'll add it to the OP.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This might have already been said, but DAoC was first for Battlegrounds I believe.
Non Tabbed FPS combat was Meridian 59 , the very first 3d mmorpg. Also was the first ingame Mail system.
Just saying
then again some off you prolly werent even alive back then!
I played Meridian59 very, very shortly, but it was a long while ago. I can't recall its combat being FPS-style, like a Doom or Quake in that same time period. I can be wrong of course, but are you certain it was there from the start, and not added later?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Multi-version dungeons: dungeons that have different scenarios and setups in them that can vary wildly from eachother each time you visit
first: GW2
seen in: GW2
ADD Rift to that one too
guess rift is first with that then too
Area based level scaling: your level changes to conform to the area you're in
first: GW2
seen in: GW2
I'm almost certain WAR has level scaling in PVP areas
I played Rift, but didn't get that far (made too many alts).
Could you give examples of different scenarios and setups in those dungeons, are they like how it'll be in GW2 or different?
@Kruul: it did? Alright, I'll add WAR then
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Multi-version dungeons: dungeons that have different scenarios and setups in them that can vary wildly from eachother each time you visit
first: Rift, GW2
seen in: Rift, GW2
DAOC catacombs had dungeons that spawned different setups/objectives each visit along with level scaling of the mobs
Depends on what you consider scaling. I know if you are under the level of the PVP area you enter you will get bumped up to the cap for that area.
It looks like they added level scaling in Rift warfronts with latest patch as well.
I'd say that if you automatically scale towards the appropriate needed level without needing to be sidekicked by another player, then it qualifies. GW2 seems to be the first to level scale you down in PvE areas, but automatic level scaling upwards fall under the same category.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."