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Do testers opinions really matter?
Karnage69
Member UncommonPosts: 323
This is for all Betas, not just open Beta, but does anyone else feel like their opinions/input do not matter?
I have been beta testing mmos for years now and I am starting to get the feeling that by the time games come into beta, the companies have already decided what needs to be in their game, and any opinions from the testers mean very little.
Other than the occasional quest bug or something....
For simplicity, lets say testers report/suggest 10 different things. 3 of those 10 are the obvious fixes; game breaking fixes.
It seems that the "most obvious" fixes were probably going to be fixed in the first place, it did not matter if every tester reported/suggested it.
The other 7 of 10 items are never implemented, looked at, or whatever.
With all the MMO's that have been coming out, and all the ideas that testers input, how can we be going backwards?
Example: FFXIV, etc.
Maybe I am just paranoid, but I am honestly starting to feel that beta testing does very little to improve a game because the companies have already decided its fate, long before gamer input.
Any thoughts?
Comments
Sometimes.
It depends on the game and its developers.
I saw that opinions mattered in LOTRO and now in Rift. Not so much in Aion.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aion opinions came from both americans and koreans, the koreans won, the game is more succesful over there, so obviously they would folllow their opinions more.
A better game would be dc universe, which clearly isnt listening, and its clear from all the beta bugs that found their way into live.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
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Depends on the quality of the feedback.
Devs like well thought out and constructive feedback and with data to back up your concerns/findings. If it's not it'll be pretty much ignored as they have nothing to work with beyond "this sucks fix it".
As one of the GWs alpha testers across the original release and all content expansions our opinions mattered and we could see that reflected in the game. Whether it was something as small as "there is a floating asset(ie a rock/bush/tree) at loc blah blah" to the overall feel of a zone/mission experience and how it flowed/progressed.
The devs do watch forums closely though, at least in ArenaNets case for GWs. For an example of what makes devs wet the sort of indepth info they like can be seen here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/game-mechanics-id674.php
Charles Ensign made many such posts both on game mechanics and bugs he'd found, and as a result the devs noticed his posts on the forums and he joined the Alpha test team.
Myself for example was drafted in to help with testing (PvP balance being my main focus) because my guild topped the GvG charts during the open beta events in 2004 and they kept me on until the testing portion on GWs ended in May 2008.
So devs do take notice but you have to give a good impression and write something that they can actually work with not just "this sucks fix it"
Actually tester's opinions are really important because thay are the ones who can tell something, suggest of anythings that needs to relaced or removed in the game. Sometimes, when they notice something that can really affect the outcome of the game let's say it is a bug that can automatically crash the game down, they will immedietly fix it. But sometimes, if you tell them a comment about this particular feature they will first talk about it if it will delay the game's release because it will really take a lot of time to administer that changes that you want for the game, they will fix or replace some parts but not the whole idea.
I have beta tested a lot My general experience....the core of the game..the central ideas...major gameplay elements...not a chance they will be changed.Bugs...minor tweeks MABY YES MABY NO.Thats why I don't beta test any more. For me it's just a free trial to most likely save me from another bad purchase.I won't play any game these days(with these economic condictions) with out getting into the beta or a free trial key.Just won't do it.
Planetside is my latest no play. They discontinued free trials.I wont blindly subscribe.At this moment I'm downloading CIVILIZATION 5 demo.I get to see what the game all about . If I like it I may buy it.I never would with out the demo.
It really depends, like someone already said. Seems like a lot of companies just use open beta as a marketing tool. I have been in way too many betas, closed and open, and there are definitely game companies out there who take testers feedback seriously. Generally though, it is more during the closed phase that they really listen to feedback obviously.
Been answered already, but would just like to add that which beta phase you are in can make a difference too. In CB they tend to listen a bit more, may even ask for opinions. OB's are just too large, too many people/opinions to affectively keep track of, seems like the only real purpose they set out to do is stress testing, and any changes made during that period were planned to begin with.
Yeah, feedback is pretty important. I was helping one developer and they kept a file with all the "pertinent" feedback. So they could go back over certain things when they got to that particular area to work on it. Sorta like a field guide.
Alot of times you won't see immediate results from giving feedback if it doesn't work in with the plan of the game or they are saving it for the future. Or there might be something more important "gamebreaking" that they have to work out first.
There's alot of reasons why beta testers won't see their contributions directly effect the game... Don't let it get you down, as long as you post what you encounter and offer opinions on what could be better, you're doing what you should and your contribution matters. Someone else might have overlooked it.....
Godspeed my fellow gamer
I think beta testing is just used to garner initial player feedback and maybe to catch those pesky bugs in the text and dialogue.
I think it is better to suggest any changes to the game once they go live
Main problem with most beta tests these days is simple, fanboys. They are the ones who follow the games early on, post up a storm on the forums, inflate the devs' ego. They are the first to get in and they are the ones who give the most input. They are the ones who shout down any proposed drastic changes due to their zealotry.
The developers are like an overprotective mother nursing its own child. They tend to lean towards small changes in hopes that they will be enough, instead of facing reality that their child might need a serious operation. Now in the real world you would go to a doctor for the diagnosis. The role of a doctor in their beta tests play the established names in the community who have the trust of the developer. Now some of these folks might not be fanboys, but they suffer from similar character flaws. Most of them will not want to destroy their good rep in the community by throwing out doomsday scenarios, even if that is what the situation calls for.
The developers are just that, the creators. They set out to create something they feel passionate about(I hope) Deviating off course too much might,in their minds, be a betrayal of what their vision is. This also is the reason they will rather listen to the sweet allure of fanboy optimism.
Lastly, fanboys are to blame
They polarise the conversation with their optimism that the voices of reason don't even register and only the extreme negative reactions are heard. Of course those extreme reactions are usually a symptom of a game gone terribly wrong. However the developers usually see them as trolls or people who want a totally different game than the one in the makes.
Bottom line is most testers opinions are swept under the rug as far as the direction of the game goes. Devs are too set in their ego-trip of a joy ride to even want to change a broken system.
My idea will be something like this.
It really never matters for the game company unless it is some company like Funcom, who really tried to fix a lot of AoC through its beta testers.
The general f2p's like the Forsaken World's kind is not going to get fixed. They have already made the business model and will go with it. They will not brush up the game or fix the bugs because some gamers feel the game is bugged.
But what happens is when you see the posts you get a feel before devoting time to a new game, you find out what you are getting into.
That is all for the player bases across the globes.
If someone is making it a point that the game is bugged there and you log in and try and find the same bug existing, you will not be devoting more time to it.
That way the doors kept open to the beta testers helps for the player base looking to try the game out. Moreover if you can get the game well and the community fixed and the supports better than the average then it actually gains you positive responses and gets you more players at relaese. So in a way discussion forums before the release and inputs from beta players do a lot to get new players at release.
Some companies really have the time and devotion to fix the bugs before the release or to listen to their player bases and thus makes a better game at release. The sweet example will be DCUniverse.
While some companies are too lazy or less organized to get their player base answered back with proper fixes and logical game model alterations.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
Funcom is the best example of a developer not listening to it's testers actually. Only when the roof was caving in on them they decided to do something about the game.
Really depends on the 'opinion'.
Testers are just that, test the stuff for bugs.
A tester's opinion is only one person's opinion. A game feature or some giant game design is not going to be changed by that.
In my case, unless the feedback I get it overwhelmingly bad; I go ahead with what was originally on the design doc.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It all depends on the company you are testing for.
For one I have to admit that Trion fixed all issues I reported really fast (but others probably reported them as well). On the other hand did I and many more beg Funcom to not release AoC until the game was stable, they didn't even reply in a long thread with loads of testers all saying the same.
But for the companies ignoring their beta testers can I only say one thing: Your loss!
The beta testers spend their spare time helping to fix up the game. At least the people reporting usually care and try to help as much as possible. Totally ignoring all those people is a huge mistake that games like VG, WAR and AoC did. Not a good idea.
If you don't want input, don't do a beta. Just have a free weekend before release instead.
Apparently it's more valid if the game you're testing is the first one of its kind being published where you are. So translations/etc into a different area (e.g. Aion from korea -> NA) doesn't matter as much because the first community is almost always favored on top. For me, I use OBT (for F2P games) as a test into how much I might like the game and what it has to offer because they're not going to make it feel radically different/more fun/interesting once it launches.
Worst, though, is when they ask for our suggestions to "improve" the game and then once the suggestion fever dies down, it's as if it never happened.
Forums: The best real-time interactive MMORPG you'll ever be in.
I agree its something that depends on each MMO in question. Some are just a publicity exercise. Whilst others I've genuinly felt my feedback helped make the game a better product before release. Beta and Alpha now serve their purpose depending in what the developer has in mind. And their engagement with testers or lack thereof should give you a good impression of what they'll be like when the game goes to release.
I think the idea of Beta testing is to just report unworking quests, items, glitches and bugs.
It's not for testers to give an opinion on changing the game, just improving the current experience.
Well, I agree with Sovrath , that the entire game primarily depends on the developer and the company running the game. Anyway's there are still chances in the game if they make any add on's. Since we gamer's test their game. That's why there is a CBT and OBT.
I think the testers opinion effects the game maybe 2 out of 10 i think. Since most of the game depends on the developer itself and the company that sells the game. However, to reveal the true use of the tester they are just used to detect some bugs in the game >_<
What I do know is that the tester's of games responsibility is to detect bugs and gliches, so that before the release of the game there will be atleast less problems encountered by the players.
Darkfall is a great example why not to listen to your players.
Big problem is the filtering the feedback.
Just because there is certain quantity and certain group of people are the most vocal does not mean their proposal would make the game 'better'.
The second big problem are priorities.
The 'most obvious' fixes does not necessarily have to be as obvious from developers point of view - they do not fit in the vision of devs, there are more important issues to fix you have no idea about.
What players see as a priority does not always represent a priority for devs, for understandable reasons.
Some betas and some devs can do 'better' job, it is individual and I would not try to make any generalized statements because you have been so far on the one side of the fence only.
I agree with bienaoki tester's are really meant for bug detections before the realease of the game. Nice one!
My experience has been exactly the same as the OP. I have found that the "unwashed masses" are brought in to bug stomp and try to crash the game. I cannot count the number of games where players relentlessly poured feedback into the company only to have it ignored. The most egregious example that comes to mind...........WAR.I felt like I was in a World War 2 German concentration camp.Comments by testers not sanctioned were grounds for immediate banning.
The result....I use betas just to get a preview of the game and in every case in the last few years...NOT buy it.
Well I would say it depends on the dev team. For instance in lotro, there beta's were pretty much how the game was going to go already. Case in point the free to play move. We all complained about items in the store, and what happened they added more. We pointed out bugs, and those bugs still made it to live. In other tubine beta's with class changes in skills folks complained about how they were and were not working right, reports of those bugs fell on deaf ears. I find with turbine, they don't listen and they don't care. In fact several beta's I have been in seam to have went that route. It is a shame that beta should be used to find bugs, but instead it is being used as a media tool, to get folks to come look and play so they will buy.
Testers job is to ensure that during the production phase, the new game is already free from bugs and glitches. The manufacturer will ensure that the new games will meet the criteria of the targeted users. Meaning YES!!! if the opinion is subjected to bugs and gliches, other criteria's in the game are not ,