Nobody know just yet if it does anything better than established MMORPGs.
The thing is a lot of the mechanics in Rift did just fine in other games, the PQ system of warhammer was fine, untill people stopped seeing a need to put forth the effort in doing them, we dont know if the same will be true about the actual rifts in Rift 3 months down the line.
Does warfronts better than other games do scenarios or battlegrounds....so far from what ive tested, they really dont (see class balance issues). Nothing is special about Rifts instant pvp games, in fact the layout and objectives, as well as the mechanics of the ones we have tried are less than spectaculair...
Not sure what else there is tbh.
The thing Rift does exceedingly well, is provide a bug free and polished PVE trip, its where a lot of games are in this aspect prelaunch, where they are/were a year after launch.
Thats it really.
Its stilla fun game, its easy to get into if your not bored to tears with standard fantasy mmorpgs, and provides an interesting world with the rifts and all. That and its new and fresh.
We need to wait untill the new and fresh of Rift wears out to see if they really do anything better than other mmorpgs though, we will see if people choose to go rift hunting and pop mini games if theres some other, faster means of leveling avaliable...who knows.
I gotta admit, I haven't played every MMORPG that has every graced a computer screen and even missed some of the big ones. I also am a Rift fan, so this is obviously slanted to begin with:
1. Questing - it is pretty similar to other games, but it wasn't something that was designed to be the focus of the game either. One of the nicest thing is that you cna go through the game with or without questing. The choice is yours.
2. Crafting - not a big crafter, so I'm not going to touch other than to say, I have a friend who loves crafting and has been enjoying Rift. anecdotal²
3. Animations - I gotta admit, I was looking more at the details of the structures and textures than the way things move. I loved the landscapes, the details of the rifts, the building structures, and the dungeon aesthetics. Does my character make unique move for every spell? I doubt it.... I didn't really care, personally. However, I never saw unnatural body movies, missing textures, and broken models.
4. Sound / music - I listed to some of the music, but I almost always turn it down in game. I gotta admit, I do miss EQ2's voice chat system, but just go back to classic Ventrillo.
5. Combat pacing - The dynamic of the party members and the rifts can make it very a lot. Running through a zone alone as a welcome reprieve, but my wife and I in a warrior cleric duo were unstoppable and moved quickly through fights. Sometimes it takes a bit to find the right spell combination to get you through a fight, but that's the fun of it; I hate button mashing.
6. Dungeon design - Okay, I only did a couple of these, but I liked the fact it wasn't just a flat out cookie cutter. The maps were complex enough and the mobs spaced well. You had clear "safe" and "battle" zones if need be.
7. Achievements - ummm... they're there. I've never really been driven much by them. Ya there were some funny ones in WoW... some ones to tick off in EQ2... but umm... ya... they exist.
8. Collectibles - yes, they're reminisent of EQ2. Don't know that I'd care to defend it. Again, i don't know that a game would live or die by the Colelctible system.
9. Character Customization - if you're talking about the character creation screen? Ya, that's not as varied as it could be. You can use the three-way slider to move your face shape between three major artistic face shape and get some good variations, but there's not a lot of hair styles, tatoos, etc. Whatever. The multi-color dye/tinting system for the armor is a good thing. This is all something they can build on later too. The basis is there.
The REAL character customization comes in the Soul Tree's. The variations are just numerous. The biggest problem I see is balance, but if you're doing PvE, class balance isn't quite as concerning. The fact I can take cleric from fighter, to healer, to nuker in less than a minute is a lot of fun.
10. Zone size and overall immersion - Zone size? ya, it isn't the size of Azeroth. Norrath, or Tyria, but its fights and battles are tide to physical space either. In a lot of ways, the map is twice the size because you have the rifts overlapping.
Overall immersion - you have to want to be immersed in it. I've seen people get drawn in like there's not anything else in the room, and I've seen other people have it in the background while they're studying their next WoW raid. This seems more subjective than most.
So, ya, most of it comes down to personal preference. Rifts main key points are:
Expansive class system
Dynamic content
Visual Appeal
Quality
Rift largerly accomplish what Blizzard and SOE can't with their warchests in quality, they accomplish a dynamic class system like I've never seen before, their visual appeal is far beyond the big guys but on pair with most any of the new games out there, and their dynamic content takes Warhammer a step further.
However, its hard to say any game is truly revolutionary. But rather evolutionary. Warhammer & Aion evolved from WoW, WoW from EQ, EQ from UO, UO from Ulitmate, Ultimate from MUD, MUD from Pac-Man, Pac-Man from Pong. I know that's a lot of leaps, but you get my point.
Should Rift pop onto the scene and blow every other contender out of the water and force every gamer in the world to it? no. But its the best quality game out in a long time and probably the best MMO beta I've ever been in.
Enough with the dead horse. He's getting tired of being beaten. If you want to form an opinion of Rift, hop into the Open Beta next week. Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, and you are holding the beer.
Nothing I can say will convince you, so see for yourself.
P.S. this goes out to your target audience OP, not to you.
I was in 2 of the beta events and I don't see what is so new about this game. This game lack races, unique classes, and the world feels very small and linear. Don't say pvp is good here because it's the same thing we see in most mmos, warhammer's pvp is way better.
I guess it appeals to some people but they too have failed to justify why this game is so good to them.
Clearly you have not read the forums and you do not explain yourself as well. Seriously, why do so many people that do not enjoy playing this game cruise the game's forums and post...really. You like stalking people that have found a game they enjoy and throw down vague negativities.
I did not care for the Cataclysm expansion, no longer entertaining to me. So I move on to a new game...no posts, don't care to share why I am not entertained. If you like playing the game, have fun! If not, CHANGE THE CHANNEL and MOVE ON.
I want to enjoy this game, i really do. If they had other races, I would play it in a heartbeat even if it lacked the fun factor leveling just as long as endgame is wtf pwn!!!???
Read all 4 points above again (3 times) and say it is not original...
And you change your soul combos clicking a button ("role"). So, at middle of dunegon and need one more healer for last boss? I can just click for change to may second role and my necromancer/warlock/chloromancer (pet/dps) chganges to a chloromancer/archon/dominator (healer/buffer/CC).
When someone ask that kind the question, as the op done, it is because don't played the beta or don't get out the tutorial area. And so, know nothing about Rift.
The WoW players must be in panic with a well polished game arriving to the market now that everyone knows that Cata is a disaster.
Read all 4 points above again (3 times) and say it is not original...
And you change your soul combos clicking a button ("role"). So, at middle of dunegon and need one more healer for last boss? I can just click for change to may second role and my necromancer/warlock/chloromancer (pet/dps) chganges to a chloromancer/archon/dominator (healer/buffer/CC).
When someone ask that kind the question, as the op done, it is because don't played the beta or don't get out the tutorial area. And so, know nothing about Rift.
The WoW players must be in panic with a well polished game arriving to the market now that everyone knows that Cata is a disaster.
I'm not worried about WoW losing subs one bit. But we need some competition and rift aint one of it.
Read all 4 points above again (3 times) and say it is not original...
And you change your soul combos clicking a button ("role"). So, at middle of dunegon and need one more healer for last boss? I can just click for change to may second role and my necromancer/warlock/chloromancer (pet/dps) chganges to a chloromancer/archon/dominator (healer/buffer/CC).
When someone ask that kind the question, as the op done, it is because don't played the beta or don't get out the tutorial area. And so, know nothing about Rift.
The WoW players must be in panic with a well polished game arriving to the market now that everyone knows that Cata is a disaster.
I'm not worried about WoW losing subs one bit. But we need some competition and rift aint one of it.
All Rift needs to do is snag a few hundred thousand. I personally doubt it will do even that, but Blizzard certainly needs some competition. They have become quite lazy. A bit of competition wouldn't hurt at all.
I'm not going to argue the similarity of RIFT to other mmo's and the lack of innovation, I'm simply targeting the people that say RIFT does a lot of the same things as other mmo's BUT does them better. Really? Because I can think of a lot of conventional things in RIFT that are NOT done better than mmo's whatsoever. Let's look
1. Questing
2. Crafting
3. Animations
4. Sound / music
5. Combat pacing
6. Dungeon design
7. Achievements
8. Collectibles
9. Character customization
10. Zone size and overall immersion
All of those things I listed are done about the same as other mmo's, or worse. So what is it that RIFT does better than other mmo's besides graphics (arguable), rift's and the soul system?
1. Nothing in Rift is dramatically different from most modern MMOs in this regard. There are daily quests as early as level 10, primarily for crafting, but that's really the only thing that's slightly out of the ordinary in my experience.
2. Crafted gear is useful! If you level your crafting as you level your character, you will always have gear that is on par or even better than quest rewards and world drops. You are also able to enhance recipies with planar augments that you get from rifts or purchase from vendors with planarite. End-game will also have many excellent crafted items that will be essential for expert level dungeons and raids.
3. They seem fine to me. Nothing stellar, just refined and fluid.
4. Pretty good quality sounds and music in my experience.
5. There are a lot of abilities, many of which are reactive abilities that aren't on the GCD, so this makes combat feel faster and more involved than it does in other titles. I really enjoy this part of Rift and would consider it a step up from other games in terms of interactivity.
6. Standard fare for MMOs, though I'd say they're fairly challenging even at low levels unless you out-level them greatly. This is a good thing IMO.
7. Don't care too much about achievements. I consider them to be a lousy excuse for game content and don't see the point in them at all.
8. Artifacts are really neat. Not only do they act as a reward for exploring the world, you can get some really neat items in your reward satchel from turning in completed sets. In addition to a reward satchel, you get tokens used to purchase vanity items and even a 110% speed epic mount.
9. Much better than World of Warcraft and other prominent titles. There are armor dyes in the game with two colorable slots per armor piece and they are developing an appearance tab ala LOTRO. Pretty good, but LOTRO still has better customization IMO.
10. This is where Rift shines. The zones feel large and open, allowing for ample exploration and various play styles (grinding, questing, rifting) to flourish. Rifts and zone-wide invasions really immerse you in the world and add a sense of danger and excitement, especially with the roving invasion groups that rifts spawn. You are never safe when a rift is nearby, and this really adds to the atmosphere of the game.
This thread has the same antagonistic undertones that I've grown tired of seeing....
I am in love with WOW(or my current MMO)" Talk me into liking Rift because i think it blows and won't even bother installing it."
What we trying to accomplish by writing things like this? If you're curious, play it for free next week. No one is going to write anything to get you to change your mind on the game. Play it, either you'll like it, or you won't.
For me, I liked Warhammer for a few months, this game feels like what Warhammer SHOULD have been and then some. I am pretty excited about this game. Will it dethrone WOW? Probably not, could any game? I doubt it, it has nothing to do w/how good or bad WOW is, people have a hard time trying something new and feel like they are "wasting" all of the RL time they put into their lvl85 wow winner. I was that was w/my first MMO, then i got over it. I have a theory that a large percentage of WOW players have only played WOW and have no idea that other MMOS are pretty sweet too. Conan for graphics and a cool combat system, warhammer for a true rvr feel, Vangaurd for some insane crafting and a large open world w/out instances, Lotro for all of the lore and beautiful graphics, DDO for dungeons w/traps.....you get the idea.
Enough with the dead horse. He's getting tired of being beaten. If you want to form an opinion of Rift, hop into the Open Beta next week. Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, and you are holding the beer.
Nothing I can say will convince you, so see for yourself.
People see what they want to see. Leave it at that. Within three months they'll be crying about how they were ripped off.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
for me it is the LITTLE things RIft does that take the MMO standard formula and makes the gameplay better - not the big stuff
I could go on and on, but let me randomly list 3 things that are not oftendiscussed, yet truly make a world of difference over many hours of gameplay- at least for me....
Kill 4 mobs in the same area and want to loot them- Rift has an easy system where all assigned loot per mob comes up in 1 window! Not 4 clicks x 4 clicks!
Hmm, let me mine that rock- what no pick? no tools for skills to keep up? no item to fill an invemtory slot I have to pull out every time I want to mine?!
Hmm, let me go repair all my armor and weapons and tools..what!? no repairs?
This podcast with creative led Scott Hartsman gives great insight into the mentality behind the game and how they focus on what matters including a heavy, heavy focus on endgame content
Rift is pretty much a copy cat game, nothing new really.
not a copycat but a new step in mmorpg evolution, in your terms wow would be a copycat too, but they just took one step further what was in the market in those days, rift is doing exactly the same, rifts and invasions add so much to the game, one feels totally immersed in the action.
Rift have like Wow good coding and deliver for once a game that isn't broken. That is it's strenght together with some good character customization.
But I don't think it takes stuff from other games and make them better, most stuff is rather similar.
Rift is however the first MMO in a long time that isn't released way too early, and that if nothing else makes it a very interesting game. Last game like that were GW or possibly LOTRO (but LOTRO just had so little content at launch).
Good game, but not much new or better besides the coding. That is however enough to impress most of us after years of broken games.
Rift is pretty much a copy cat game, nothing new really.
not a copycat but a new step in mmorpg evolution
That is just not true. Quests are still kill X, collect Y. Animations and graphics are very bad against newer MMO.
Rift is an ok overall game. Nothing special, no evolution.
Evolution doesn't have to be changing every aspect of the game. They added a few of their own features while leaving systems we already know and understand. Graphics are fine, really can't see the complaint in this, the only complaint would be that the engine is bollocks when it comes to optimization. Animations are ok but could do with work, a lot of it, but they are by no means game breaking.
It is nothing special but it certainly gives something to the evolution of MMO's. Rift's and the soul system is enough.
Many people enjoy RIFT and it will do very well. How much of a hit will it take when games such as TOR, GW2 and TERA release? Who know's, but in the mean time RIFT is something to enjoy and has plently of time to improve before the big boys come out to play.
Comments
Nobody know just yet if it does anything better than established MMORPGs.
The thing is a lot of the mechanics in Rift did just fine in other games, the PQ system of warhammer was fine, untill people stopped seeing a need to put forth the effort in doing them, we dont know if the same will be true about the actual rifts in Rift 3 months down the line.
Does warfronts better than other games do scenarios or battlegrounds....so far from what ive tested, they really dont (see class balance issues). Nothing is special about Rifts instant pvp games, in fact the layout and objectives, as well as the mechanics of the ones we have tried are less than spectaculair...
Not sure what else there is tbh.
The thing Rift does exceedingly well, is provide a bug free and polished PVE trip, its where a lot of games are in this aspect prelaunch, where they are/were a year after launch.
Thats it really.
Its stilla fun game, its easy to get into if your not bored to tears with standard fantasy mmorpgs, and provides an interesting world with the rifts and all. That and its new and fresh.
We need to wait untill the new and fresh of Rift wears out to see if they really do anything better than other mmorpgs though, we will see if people choose to go rift hunting and pop mini games if theres some other, faster means of leveling avaliable...who knows.
I gotta admit, I haven't played every MMORPG that has every graced a computer screen and even missed some of the big ones. I also am a Rift fan, so this is obviously slanted to begin with:
1. Questing - it is pretty similar to other games, but it wasn't something that was designed to be the focus of the game either. One of the nicest thing is that you cna go through the game with or without questing. The choice is yours.
2. Crafting - not a big crafter, so I'm not going to touch other than to say, I have a friend who loves crafting and has been enjoying Rift. anecdotal²
3. Animations - I gotta admit, I was looking more at the details of the structures and textures than the way things move. I loved the landscapes, the details of the rifts, the building structures, and the dungeon aesthetics. Does my character make unique move for every spell? I doubt it.... I didn't really care, personally. However, I never saw unnatural body movies, missing textures, and broken models.
4. Sound / music - I listed to some of the music, but I almost always turn it down in game. I gotta admit, I do miss EQ2's voice chat system, but just go back to classic Ventrillo.
5. Combat pacing - The dynamic of the party members and the rifts can make it very a lot. Running through a zone alone as a welcome reprieve, but my wife and I in a warrior cleric duo were unstoppable and moved quickly through fights. Sometimes it takes a bit to find the right spell combination to get you through a fight, but that's the fun of it; I hate button mashing.
6. Dungeon design - Okay, I only did a couple of these, but I liked the fact it wasn't just a flat out cookie cutter. The maps were complex enough and the mobs spaced well. You had clear "safe" and "battle" zones if need be.
7. Achievements - ummm... they're there. I've never really been driven much by them. Ya there were some funny ones in WoW... some ones to tick off in EQ2... but umm... ya... they exist.
8. Collectibles - yes, they're reminisent of EQ2. Don't know that I'd care to defend it. Again, i don't know that a game would live or die by the Colelctible system.
9. Character Customization - if you're talking about the character creation screen? Ya, that's not as varied as it could be. You can use the three-way slider to move your face shape between three major artistic face shape and get some good variations, but there's not a lot of hair styles, tatoos, etc. Whatever. The multi-color dye/tinting system for the armor is a good thing. This is all something they can build on later too. The basis is there.
The REAL character customization comes in the Soul Tree's. The variations are just numerous. The biggest problem I see is balance, but if you're doing PvE, class balance isn't quite as concerning. The fact I can take cleric from fighter, to healer, to nuker in less than a minute is a lot of fun.
10. Zone size and overall immersion - Zone size? ya, it isn't the size of Azeroth. Norrath, or Tyria, but its fights and battles are tide to physical space either. In a lot of ways, the map is twice the size because you have the rifts overlapping.
Overall immersion - you have to want to be immersed in it. I've seen people get drawn in like there's not anything else in the room, and I've seen other people have it in the background while they're studying their next WoW raid. This seems more subjective than most.
So, ya, most of it comes down to personal preference. Rifts main key points are:
Expansive class system
Dynamic content
Visual Appeal
Quality
Rift largerly accomplish what Blizzard and SOE can't with their warchests in quality, they accomplish a dynamic class system like I've never seen before, their visual appeal is far beyond the big guys but on pair with most any of the new games out there, and their dynamic content takes Warhammer a step further.
However, its hard to say any game is truly revolutionary. But rather evolutionary. Warhammer & Aion evolved from WoW, WoW from EQ, EQ from UO, UO from Ulitmate, Ultimate from MUD, MUD from Pac-Man, Pac-Man from Pong. I know that's a lot of leaps, but you get my point.
Should Rift pop onto the scene and blow every other contender out of the water and force every gamer in the world to it? no. But its the best quality game out in a long time and probably the best MMO beta I've ever been in.
-SMFX
I want to enjoy this game, i really do. If they had other races, I would play it in a heartbeat even if it lacked the fun factor leveling just as long as endgame is wtf pwn!!!???
You want know what Rift does better?
THE CLASS SYSTEM!
There are soul combos that let:
1- Rogues be main tank;
2- Warriors be support buffers;
3- Mages be main healers;
4- Clerics be dps.
Read all 4 points above again (3 times) and say it is not original...
And you change your soul combos clicking a button ("role"). So, at middle of dunegon and need one more healer for last boss? I can just click for change to may second role and my necromancer/warlock/chloromancer (pet/dps) chganges to a chloromancer/archon/dominator (healer/buffer/CC).
When someone ask that kind the question, as the op done, it is because don't played the beta or don't get out the tutorial area. And so, know nothing about Rift.
The WoW players must be in panic with a well polished game arriving to the market now that everyone knows that Cata is a disaster.
I'm not worried about WoW losing subs one bit. But we need some competition and rift aint one of it.
All Rift needs to do is snag a few hundred thousand. I personally doubt it will do even that, but Blizzard certainly needs some competition. They have become quite lazy. A bit of competition wouldn't hurt at all.
.. But in a good way.
1. Nothing in Rift is dramatically different from most modern MMOs in this regard. There are daily quests as early as level 10, primarily for crafting, but that's really the only thing that's slightly out of the ordinary in my experience.
2. Crafted gear is useful! If you level your crafting as you level your character, you will always have gear that is on par or even better than quest rewards and world drops. You are also able to enhance recipies with planar augments that you get from rifts or purchase from vendors with planarite. End-game will also have many excellent crafted items that will be essential for expert level dungeons and raids.
3. They seem fine to me. Nothing stellar, just refined and fluid.
4. Pretty good quality sounds and music in my experience.
5. There are a lot of abilities, many of which are reactive abilities that aren't on the GCD, so this makes combat feel faster and more involved than it does in other titles. I really enjoy this part of Rift and would consider it a step up from other games in terms of interactivity.
6. Standard fare for MMOs, though I'd say they're fairly challenging even at low levels unless you out-level them greatly. This is a good thing IMO.
7. Don't care too much about achievements. I consider them to be a lousy excuse for game content and don't see the point in them at all.
8. Artifacts are really neat. Not only do they act as a reward for exploring the world, you can get some really neat items in your reward satchel from turning in completed sets. In addition to a reward satchel, you get tokens used to purchase vanity items and even a 110% speed epic mount.
9. Much better than World of Warcraft and other prominent titles. There are armor dyes in the game with two colorable slots per armor piece and they are developing an appearance tab ala LOTRO. Pretty good, but LOTRO still has better customization IMO.
10. This is where Rift shines. The zones feel large and open, allowing for ample exploration and various play styles (grinding, questing, rifting) to flourish. Rifts and zone-wide invasions really immerse you in the world and add a sense of danger and excitement, especially with the roving invasion groups that rifts spawn. You are never safe when a rift is nearby, and this really adds to the atmosphere of the game.
Rift is pretty much a copy cat game, nothing new really.
This thread has the same antagonistic undertones that I've grown tired of seeing....
I am in love with WOW(or my current MMO)" Talk me into liking Rift because i think it blows and won't even bother installing it."
What we trying to accomplish by writing things like this? If you're curious, play it for free next week. No one is going to write anything to get you to change your mind on the game. Play it, either you'll like it, or you won't.
For me, I liked Warhammer for a few months, this game feels like what Warhammer SHOULD have been and then some. I am pretty excited about this game. Will it dethrone WOW? Probably not, could any game? I doubt it, it has nothing to do w/how good or bad WOW is, people have a hard time trying something new and feel like they are "wasting" all of the RL time they put into their lvl85 wow winner. I was that was w/my first MMO, then i got over it. I have a theory that a large percentage of WOW players have only played WOW and have no idea that other MMOS are pretty sweet too. Conan for graphics and a cool combat system, warhammer for a true rvr feel, Vangaurd for some insane crafting and a large open world w/out instances, Lotro for all of the lore and beautiful graphics, DDO for dungeons w/traps.....you get the idea.
There are good and not so good in many games.....
People see what they want to see. Leave it at that. Within three months they'll be crying about how they were ripped off.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
for me it is the LITTLE things RIft does that take the MMO standard formula and makes the gameplay better - not the big stuff
I could go on and on, but let me randomly list 3 things that are not oftendiscussed, yet truly make a world of difference over many hours of gameplay- at least for me....
Kill 4 mobs in the same area and want to loot them- Rift has an easy system where all assigned loot per mob comes up in 1 window! Not 4 clicks x 4 clicks!
Hmm, let me mine that rock- what no pick? no tools for skills to keep up? no item to fill an invemtory slot I have to pull out every time I want to mine?!
Hmm, let me go repair all my armor and weapons and tools..what!? no repairs?
This podcast with creative led Scott Hartsman gives great insight into the mentality behind the game and how they focus on what matters including a heavy, heavy focus on endgame content
http://www.allgames.com/live#
not a copycat but a new step in mmorpg evolution, in your terms wow would be a copycat too, but they just took one step further what was in the market in those days, rift is doing exactly the same, rifts and invasions add so much to the game, one feels totally immersed in the action.
That is just not true. Quests are still kill X, collect Y. Animations and graphics are very bad against newer MMO.
Rift is an ok overall game. Nothing special, no evolution.
I would say your spot on sir.
My only arguement would be, depending on its success, injecting higher amounts of character customization into the mainstream.
WoW sure as hell doesn't have it, neither does Aion. Those are the biggest right now, afaik.
.. But in a good way.
Evolution doesn't have to be changing every aspect of the game. They added a few of their own features while leaving systems we already know and understand. Graphics are fine, really can't see the complaint in this, the only complaint would be that the engine is bollocks when it comes to optimization. Animations are ok but could do with work, a lot of it, but they are by no means game breaking.
It is nothing special but it certainly gives something to the evolution of MMO's. Rift's and the soul system is enough.
Many people enjoy RIFT and it will do very well. How much of a hit will it take when games such as TOR, GW2 and TERA release? Who know's, but in the mean time RIFT is something to enjoy and has plently of time to improve before the big boys come out to play.