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Make Sure to Remove Your Bank Account Information
rap87
Member Posts: 13
Guys, if you have a canceled account from AoC and you left your payment method in tact, make sure to go remove it. I noticed today my account was charged by Funcom, and I haven't played AoC nor had its client on any of my computers for 7 months. I tried getting in contact with customer service and the conversation is below. Basically the gist is, your password wasn't changed, so thanks for your 15 bucks. This is just maddenning, there is no chance in any way shape or form that I authorized this charge and yet they are wanting to keep the 15 bucks....horrible customer service.
Thank you and we will be with you shortly.
(08:20:06 PM GMT) Me: I noticed my bank account was charged a sub fee. I do not play this game, and I have not reactivated it....What is going on?
(08:21:51 PM GMT) Pooyan has entered the chat.
(08:22:06 PM GMT) Pooyan: Hello, one moment while I check please
(08:22:38 PM GMT) Pooyan: The account is active and it shows that you logged in on February 11th
(08:22:57 PM GMT) Me: Its not on any of my computers
(08:23:17 PM GMT) Me: Never logged into it, I'm a guild leader in WoW atm and I've no time for this game...
(08:24:14 PM GMT) Me: I just deleted my bank information and recanceled this, but yeah, defiantly did not reactivate it.
(08:26:00 PM GMT) Pooyan: I do apologize but Sedarius was online then, as such I cannot refund the charge.
(08:26:44 PM GMT) Me: Well, someone has broken into your system and reactivated my account. The game is not on any of my computers or on any of the ip addresses I had ever used to log into this game
(08:26:56 PM GMT) Me: I haven't played or thought about this game in months
(08:28:45 PM GMT) Me: Let me speak to someone else then, this is ridocolous. Its not my responsibility for the security of your databases. As I've said the game nor anything associated with this game is on any of computers. There is no way I activated the account.
(08:30:05 PM GMT) Pooyan: If you wish to complain you can send an e-mail to support@ageofconan.com. The passwords have not even been changed so I doubt a manager will refund the charge. I do apologize, but players are indeed responsible for the security of their accounts.
(08:30:57 PM GMT) Me: How am I responsible for the security of my account I cancled this account 7 months ago and haven't logged in or had anything too do with the game
(08:32:06 PM GMT) Me: I've never had any MMO just mysteriously reactivate, and if you have any sort of IP trackign you would see its not from any registered computer I ever logged in with or edited my account on. Blizzard can tell this sort of thing
(08:34:11 PM GMT) Pooyan: We do, anytime someone changes a password, the IP is recorded. Unfortunately the password has never been changed so we have no different IP.
(08:34:48 PM GMT) Me: How about the IP the character logged in with?
(08:35:01 PM GMT) Me: Cause Its not on any of my computers your client
(08:35:47 PM GMT) Me: Theres nothing to say a hacker needs to change the PW to get whatever he wants, in WoW they customarily log in and steal all your crap, someone can do that rather quickly withotu ever toughing a PW
(08:36:59 PM GMT) Pooyan: I cannot issue a refund as you have logged in and there is no proof of a hack. If you wish to pursue this, feel free to send the e-mail.
(08:40:53 PM GMT) Me: The "Account" has logged in, With this sort of thing theres nothing to say ya'll didn't activate my account and just not change my password for free money as this MMO isn't exactly a premier mmo. I will be screenshoting this and sending to MMORPG.com and MMO-Champion.com. I will also be calling my Credit Card for a Refund, this is horrible Customer Service.
(08:41:07 PM GMT) Me: Nor will I ever play any Funcom game in the future, thanks for nothing
(08:42:02 PM GMT) Pooyan has closed the chat session. If you still need help, please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Comments
Whelp the bank just reversed the charge, but I'll let ya'll know how the higher up at Funcom decideds to respond to the email, I'm sure its a "too bad" response to. I've heard of billing fiasco's in other MMO's, and honestly if AoC is a sinking ship, why not just charge everyones old account with a Credit Card, and just say the person didn't change their password.
This is one of too many to name reasons to stay away from the "FAIL" that is AoC and Funcom. I have read many articles on them going under, selling off, etc etc. So who knows the truth, I have to say this is a good example of what you DO NOT want from customer service on any MMO that you play or may think of playing. At least you got your money back and I would follow up next few months to make sure your bank has them blacklisted and no further charges appear.
G/L and take a breath, I know from experience what a pain this kind of stuff can be.........
Well when I left the game I did remove my information and I always wondered then if it was actually removed. Sometimes what I do is I change the numbers or fumble expiry dates when I unsubscribe from a game to prevent them at some time in the future from charging my credit card like Mythic did where they charged people who had cancelled months before who got charged multiple times and some up to thousands who had 6 month subs that got charged 30 times even. Yup scary stuff.
thnx for the info m8..just removed all payment types, shame i still have over a years sub left to use.
Oh, I guess you did speak to someone afterall.
It's really hard to say. I mean, you have to look at this from our point of view.
Someone reactivated your account.
Someone logged into the game with your account.
From our standpoint, it's hard to determine what happened outside of those 2 points mentioned above. The chances that someone compromised the database to log into your account for 1 day doesn't add up unless your account was compromised all together. In that case, we can surely do some more research into the matter and see if someone actually did compromise your account from something on your end. But, we do have good security on all accounts. The chances of someone being able to guess your user/pass is pretty much impossible unless said account details was handed out by yourself (i.g.: gave account details to a friend) or gained maliciously through a third-party program (i.e. hacking program).
In short, it's hard in cases like these because we can't tell who logged into your account. You could have done it and decided not to play anymore, or you gave your account to someone else and forgot to remove your billing information etc. In cases where compromised accounts can be proven, where someone attained your account information maliciously is when we can really help repair the damage.
Hope this helps!
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Whelp, part of being fair and equitable is being able to see both sides of the equation. Funcom here is only seeing the side that supports $'s in their pocket. A customer is calling within 1 day of this charge being made and making a complaint about unauthorized charge...the timing of this should help the customer's case. Also, in being able to see your side, if you saw mine we might have been able to say alright we'll charge you $1.5, or something like that. 1 day of logging in for who knows what time doesn't justify a months sub, especially when the authorization is contested.
I find it very hard to believe that Funcom would not have implemented IP tracking onto their log ins to maybe see that the ip location is different than where you are contacting them from or something similar. Kinda lame.
I had been seriously considering trying this game until I read this reply.
Hope this helps indeed.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
This ^^
It's funny you would mention this. Just checked my account and guess what? Billed! And this isn't the first time I've noticed Funcom popping up on my monthly. Removed my saved payment, maybe that'll help.
Do not trust this company.
well i'm no fan of funcom or any company, like they all have much more money than us and for them the 15$ is nothing, but there are some things not conecting and weird.
So i used to play a lot of mmos playing with my credit card, never striping off the details after cancelling the sub, and i NEVER (and hoepe still that way) was charged after cancelling.
So you mention that you for coincidence find out from youre bank acount the purchase, the next day of charge :S
I go a lot to my bank acount from internet make my payments and look at the state of the acount, but yey like the day before the purchase is a little weird or strange and make it suspicious that you may know what happened.
So that state that someone logged in youre acount after ressubing, well there is one easy way to see this, go to the log and see what the one logging in did, and sure they have ip traker, all ppl have, even me in my home know what ip's allways come in and out. So if it was the same that resub the game for them (company) it is a legit resub.
If they let everyone resub for a day and pay them back they EVEN having a good pocket go bankrupt.
Is like going to a store buy some shoes use them on a party and came the next day to get the money back.
So to finish like i said before i played AoC and canceled it and never had any problems letting there my info, Btw i Started and canceled a lot of times and with 3 or 4 credit cards meanwhile, so it's a little strange.
It's a difficult issue for sure and I can relate to issues like these, but it hurts us in the long run because we have to be fair as well consistent with our policies. Not having you for a customer does more damage than a 1-time payment in that regard. It's hard to stand on that side and say, "supports $'s in their pocket".
On the logging is really where the consistency has to kick in. Looking at it from our side for a moment, we don't offer that type of subscription plan to everyone else. The reason it wasn't an option is because it's not an option for everyone else. You have to remember, where does it end after you? But on the otherhand, I do understand your concern there. If you didn't log in, then who did? That's what's going through the GM's mind most of all I think. Again, moving back to our side there, it's not uncommon for people to trade their accounts away, let friends use them and all of that jive. So in return, it's hard to come to a conclusion on what really happen, even after seeing IP logins.
I'm not trying to point fingers here. I'm just trying to shed some light on why you got the result you received to better help you understand the result. There are many conclusions to consider that neither side, you as the customer, or us as the provider can conclude. It doesn't mean we are intentionally trying to move you away from the game because as above, it does more damage than good.
If there is anything I can do for you, hit me up with a PM and I'll surely look into it further. Or better yet, toss me some feedback on how we can improve the policy better. I'll ensure it gets somewhere, preferably the CS department.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Here's the problem with that particular line of logic.
These comanies have CC info for tens/hundreds of thousands of accounts. A company could very well pull this en masse and get a SUBSTANTIAL amount of money, hoping that the individual would go "Oh well, its only 15 bucks. Lesson learned." Even if a large portion fought it and got their bank to reverse the charges, they could be counting on some not going to the trouble over $14.99.
I am in NO WAY saying that funcom in this instance is indeed guilty of anything suspect (I have never had dealings with them and would not make baseless accusations), but vigilance against such activity is a must in this business.
It's not like this kind of theft hasn't happened before in our genre.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Indeed, but in reference you have less or more to fear account compromises over time with various other games. Thus, policies are a bit different when it comes to character restoration depending on the game. In most cases however, they are the same and we do restored hacked accounts unless something else is funky.
I can understand the frustration for sure. I mean, I don't think anyone is saying your wrong in cases like these. They are more about facts than anything else. I can tell you just from personal experience that anyone will say anything to avoid punishment. I think you can see that from your own gaming experience, everyone is innocent and no one is guilty. However, the GM's still try to be fair when possible and look at all the facts.
But like I said, I'll be happy to look into it further for you. Even if you don't play again, we should be able to find some middle ground in the long run. But if not, I'll make a note of this case to the CS Manager in order to gain some valued feedback in order to improve the process if possible.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Well it does happen with Funcom. I had the same thing happen. I happened to have the EMAIL of my Cancel and yet they started billing me a few months later. My bank was to happy to make sure I got my refund. And the person I talked to..lol EMAIL helped. See what helped me was there was no hack yet I was getting billed and NO ONE every logged into the game. So they new it was their fault.
So OP if you got billed and there was someone logged in and playing and NO password was changed how can FUNCOM know it was not you? You CANT blame them for something like this. I could for no one ever logged in. Sorry
Yepyep, if there is a mistake on our end, we will fix it. Thanks for bringing in that example.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Happened to me too. All info deleted know. Funcom Aholes!
I can understand this and unfortunately the "Thomas Hobbes" view of the world certailny supports that. However, if I am telling the truth, there is no way in my power to access your systems and compare the IP address to the known IP addresses of my personal computers to prove that, that is what happened. I would need Funcom's effort in this manner.
Now, I'm aware that something like that could take up valuable man hours, which is why, maybe dividing 14.99 over the coures of 31 days could give you the figure you could charge for "cases" such as these only. Which, me being a reasonable man could accept and see we are just in a rock and a hard place and that is the only fair thing to do in such a situation.
However, none of these options or equitable solutions were presented, it was basically, since you can't prove this isn't you, eat the 14.99, which again you would have to believe my story, but if its true, just doesn't set well with me cause I'm like how in the world did this happen!
If, I took the "Thomas Hobbes" view of your company, I could say that, someone could review accounts, see ones that have Billing information still saved, activate them, and have one of their employees log in from some IP other than one owned by Funcom, and then tell the customer to prove that it wasn't him? Not saying your doing this, but if looking at the most base motives on eithier side thats what your left with I suppose.
You could at least read more than the introdutory line before post, if you do you will see that i was putting someone nor the client nor the company as guilty, atherwise i did defenc the company policie, like i own a company too, and i don't give refund for nothing until confirmed.
And OP if you give them time to look at it, it dont take a lot of time, it is easy as see from where is the IP for example. Like they are all regional, if it was from like you say internal from the Funcom, it should log in from there country that i think to remember is north europe, Sweden i think, and i believe you re not from there.
BTW the point is if you are let's say from US NY, and the ip logged in was from let's say brasil, it wasn't you almost for sure, but even like that and they responce well you could had selled youre account for example on ebay, so it is really hard to find out.
But if it was a mistake from funcom, there should be a lot of ppl complaining, it not happen to one person only, and btw didn't you got the email saying youre acount had been activate and you purchase of game time was aproved???
Looks behind left shoulder
looks behind right shoulder
wth?
I want to own property too
TY for posting this!
I just checked my account, and there in fact was an attempt to reactivate my account, wich failed due to expired credit card !
Just deleted all my info.
Nope, I never got an email in my inbox telling me that my account was activated and ready to go. I noticed this from checking my bank account's website. And it does seem like at least 1 or 2 people have popped in this thread noticing that this happened to them too, or almost happened as was the case above...
Just because I didn't quote the whole thing doesn't mean I didn't read it. I just quoted the thought I was replying to.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
In defense of FC, I've been playing their games since 2003 and I have only had one billing problem and that was my fault.
I had reactivated an old AO account because they gave me a free month. I played it all of 10 mins, logged off then completely forgot about it. A month later, I bounce a couple of checks which is really odd because I never bounce checks. I go to the bank and check my account, only to discover that FC has taken a hundred and some odd dollars out of my checking account. Furious, I fire off an email to their tech support asking that the heck was going on, and I go to the account page and delete all of my account information. The GM that responded told me that I had not canceled my account before the month was up so they had reverted to normal billing. It was a hundred bucks because I had been paying for yearly rather than monthly access on that account when it was still active. He told me to put my info back and he would reverse the charges, which he promptly did. I still ended up paying out $120 for bouncing 2 checks, but I digress.
My point is that this wasn't FC's fault, it was my mistake for not canceling the account in a timely manner. They could have just as easily have said "sorry no refunds for prepaid time" but they didn't, they gave me my money back and they didn't have to. This tells me all I need to know about their billing practices.