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I love soul combinations... I hate roles and having every single soul.
Because the latter takes a lot of what's cool about the former away. You could make a unique combination that does a couple group roles well without overspecializing in a single one, and have fun, but there's no point with roles. One role you'd have every soul geared towards that purpose, then when needed, switch to the other set of souls.
It takes away the uniqueness that the first one gives the players, at least in a group setting, because everyone will expect a certain 3 soul build for whatever role they've invited you for. Someone tell me where I'm wrong here.
Comments
The system is flexible, that's enough for me. But I don't think they claimed to do away with the trinity...
In most MMO's u have to level what u have. a priest can only heal, a paladin can only tank.
with the role system they do away with that
Warriors, can tank and dps
Rogues can tank, dps, and heal (to a degree)
mages can dps and heal (to a degree)
clerics can heal and dps and tank (to a degree)
by giving more options u have more people able to find groups easier.
and most likely we wont see a cleric tank in endgame or a rogue healer that can main heal in endgame. thats fine.
but the viability to do all these things with one character. is truly awesome
Not sure if you get what i'm saying. First replyer did. It all comes down to this trinity, and speccing min/maxing for one of 3 things, instead of being able to work with hybrids, true hybrids. If you are a tank, then you are a tank, whether you call yourself a warrior or rogue. If you are a rogue tank you'll be just like every other rogue tank endgame. No variety.
at level 15 you can pick up all the souls in your 8 soul calling. You can then have up to 4 seperate rolls. There will be a 9th soul unlockable with PvP points.
So you are saying we should have to play out our 1 roll and not get the other 3 which would be ok if that was how it was designed. But in all honesty, for me the fun comes in mixxing. The more mixxing you can do the more fun you can have. Sure there will be some tank rogue specs that are similar to others but it's all in how you distribute your points that will seperate you as well as what gears and what crafting and other things you have decked yourself out with and how well you play your character.
I have tried mixxing my same guy with the same type souls differently and he really plays totally differently.
I guess it's all perspective. Have fun with it and don't be afraid to mix things up over the next 5 days of open beta. Now is the time to lean what your fav characters are for opening and how to craft and PvP and such.
Oh yes....the Rolls are important for switching back and fourth from PvP to PvE solo to PvE group. If you can't switch you won't be half as good at these things. I know since I tried pVp with a PvE spec at first and got slaughtered.
I don't think you understand the way the Soul system was intended to be used.
If you want to get your 51 point abilities you have to get EVERY ability in the tree you want it in, leaving you only a handful of talent points for the other two soul trees, which you'd mostly spec into abilities that supliment the main tree.
For instance if you are a Tank Rogue, the Riftstalker, you will put ALL your points into Riftstalker and when you have left over points you'd pick up Bard's baseline for the 10% more Health and Blademasters baseline for the 5% more dodge.
Play around the with soul trees and it will suddenly become clear to you that Rift is a game that has 36 classes, just they come from 4 base class arche types.
OP lost me completely.
More choice equals less choice? I don't see how that could be true.
If you only had one role and respecs were not cheap/easy, then people would be forced into cookie cutter builds. Having 4 roles gives you much more flexibility.
As far as party expectations, I think the roles give you freedom there as well. If you have a less typical build that you know works, but might leave some others sceptical, you can always say "I prefer this build, but if it doesn't work out, I can always switch if need be". You can be creative. You can prove your build can do what is needed. If you are wrong? You can have other options to fall back on, thus not wasting everyones time because of a failed experiment.
It can also go the otherway. You might start a run with a safer build, but then see that your role is a little redundant for the party and the content. Maybe you started offtanking, but found that the Main Tank was handling everything and you weren't really needed in that role, you can always switch to a DPS or a Support build instead.
It also aids with experimentation in general. You might have two similar builds you test against each other, or some wild idea you aren't sure about. Having fallbacks opens up a lot more freedom and provides tools to help fine tune your builds.
I think experimentation is key in this game. There have been a lot of combos I thought would be good, but were mediocre and others that at first seems to not go well together actually produced nice synergy and more engaging game play.
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If you intend to do endgame raid content within a guild, I expect you'd have this problem no matter what. With or without roles, you'll have the guild leaders who demand certain tank specs, certain heal specs, etc. I'd rather have a role available then have to respec each time the guild gets another 'brilliant' idea, or there's a new FOTM.
If a PUG expects a certain build from me, they're out of their mind.
I'm the kind of player who rerolls six times in the first two weeks before I settle on something I like. When I saw 4 classes and 32 roles, I was pretty sure I wouldn't get out of the starting zone for the first two month. Thanks to roles I can play around all I want before I settle on something, and with the absurdly low cost of respecs, I can even change my mind down the line. As it is I love having a DPS, an off tank and a support dps build at my fingertips.
I would think that the role system makes it easier for you to find quirky non standard builds. If every change you make is a pain to reverse, then there's less experimentation. With the roles, you can keep your guild happy and still play around with your own build. Everyone wins.
There are plenty of builds that would make hybrids good enough at more than one role to work. But you won't see those with the ability to have different roles, because people won't invite you to a group with a hybrid spec in endgame. Maybe it would be more fun for you, but too bad. You either spec all into damage or healing, or tanking, or go play with yourself.
I know a lot of people are used to this idea, from WoW endgame, but it doesn't have to be that way. Creative builds that do more than one thing are just as effective if not moreso. With one role, or soul choices limited across roles, you'd see it happen.
Obviously if encounters were changed to not rely on a holy trinity model, it would help. Like making it so a tank can't tank more than a couple enemies, Limit healing per second from a single player, require a lot more CC or support to outplay enemies who try to heal each other, etc. The only thing that keeps the holy trinity afloat is a completely unrealistic expectation that every hostile gangbangs a single meatshield for several minutes despite how retarded that would be tactically.
Anyways, enough ranting. My point is, don't bother trying to be creative, the min-maxers will have your spec figured out for you, and you won't have any defense like "but it would be more useful for me to fulfill either role when needed", because of roles.
I think what the origional poster is trying to state is that most games content in designed around min/maxxing and if you dont stick to and max one tree then ur going to suffer in what you do. Therefore even though there are many many choices they are really viable and just kind of there.
Why can't I post on the official forums, is it preorders only?!
Anyways, someone else had the same thought: http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?69977-Roles-Trivialize-the-Soul-System
But as is here, most people didn't get what the problem is. I'm sure eventually they will but it's going to be a well-established game feature by then.
I respect what the OP is saying. It is a fear of mine, that some how the uniqeness of the soul system will fade into cookie cutter classes.
I myself walk around with 2 roles. I use one role for PVE and my second role for PVP. The second role uses the pvp soul.
I think the true power of the soul system will come to play when you game with a group of friends. Friends do not demand anything other than you enjoy your character. At that point, you are free to define your own role. You can define it to a group role with your friends and then you can select role number 2 for solo based. Role number 3 for PVP based, etc.
It is really an inresting system and I am thankful for it. I am healer when I should be or a damage mage when I want to be. All changed on the fly. Brilliant
I think that's the problem, not the roles. So long as we have that model, we'll have to min/max and players will expect it. Taking away the roles doesn't solve that problem, it makes it worse. If you and I make a hybrid build without roles, we don't get to play. How is that better?
Even if you only had one build, you'd still have to specialize into something for instances and dungeons. Having multiple builds just means you don't need to have multiple characters to do multiple things.
Since instances are tuned for specific roles, having multiple possible roles in a single character by the time you get to the first instance makes sense.
Having multiple builds gives you the opportunity to have that hybrid build and use it while soloing and rift hunting, and then you can switch to a focused build in an instance.
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