The sole purpose of a MMORPG is to play and interact with alot of other people. Hence it's called Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
I play MMOs for socialization in the first place, no matter if it's allready known people, friends or strangers.
If I want to play alone and or not socialize, then I can play tons of single-player games with or without online-modus.
The misconception here is that multiple player = socialization.
I play MMO to do coop PvE content (and a little PvP). Excessive socialization (like chatting) is not needed. I do sometimes chat with guildies when i feel like it, but that is NOT the purpose of an MMO. I have MSN for that.
You can do that in multiplayer games. Where does the MMO come in then?
The same place it comes in for clubs, concerts, BlizzCon and any other large gathering. Most people go to them to enjoy them with their immedaite friends and to be around others with common interests - interacting with others outisde the immediate tier or two of relationship cam often be a plus but is not always expected or even desired.
People often like to feel like there are others buzzing around them. They often like to feel like they are part of something bigger. People, in gneneral, do not like to feel alone or like they are in a 'dead' environment.
Now, granted, there are some people at a concert or in an MMO that are running around chatting it up everywhere they go, introducing themselves, etc but for the most part people talk to who they came with, bounce a comment or two to a couple people they happened to make eye contact with (that there is a whole other discussion ) and the leavehaving very little interaction withthe tens of thousands of epople outside of their immmediate group. Now, has their immediate group been the only ones there at that concert or in that MMO, they more than liekly would not have found it anywhere near as fun.
So, you're agreeing with me? That the "Massive" includes all the other people? Nariusseldon's comment leaves me wondering if he wouldn't just as well play a Single Player game in Muti-Player mode (or the typical so called "MMO" these days). But that still leaves me wondering where the "Massive" is in that game play.
I think you are trying to argue 'massively' to mean you need to interact within the game or why play when all it does is give you the possibility of interaction. What massively multiplayer does is give you the possibility of multiple interaction but it does not mean you interact with everyone which is not possible unless you take global chat into consideration. Global chat where anyone anywhere could in the world talk is the only time the word massively makes sense. Otherwise what you do is form microcosms within the world with your guild or group or trade cronies. You are not at any time actually taking part in the massively part except that you are part of the game.
That is why people who condemn others who do not want to chat within the game with strangers and not group just solo are doing their own interaction their way in my book. You cannot impose your definition because MMORPG does not in reality allow you to interact with everyone just the possibility of meeting someone who are the inhabitants of the world. You can also solo and just use the chat channels while soloing and you are part of the MMORPG universe. Your definition is very narrow. I personally love grouping but far be it for me to impose my ideas on socializing on others. How can you define socializing to mean you cannot solo. I know of individuals who spend a lot of time just chatting away in guildchat but never groups with us while I was in WoW. They make items and talk like mad but I have never grouped with them.They group with two other people and are part of the guild and give away items in the cities and talk on the general chat . They seem to be socializing. If you confine your definitions to exclude soloing your interpretation is very narrow and that is not in my opinion what socializing means.
I think you are trying to argue 'massively' to mean you need to interact within the game or why play when all it does is give you the possibility of interaction. What massively multiplayer does is give you the possibility of multiple interaction but it does not mean you interact with everyone which is not possible unless you take global chat into consideration. Global chat where anyone anywhere could in the world talk is the only time the word massively makes sense. Otherwise what you do is form microcosms within the world with your guild or group or trade cronies. You are not at any time actually taking part in the massively part except that you are part of the game.
That is why people who condemn others who do not want to chat within the game with strangers and not group just solo are doing their own interaction their way in my book. You cannot impose your definition because MMORPG does not in reality allow you to interact with everyone just the possibility of meeting someone who are the inhabitants of the world. You can also solo and just use the chat channels while soloing and you are part of the MMORPG universe. Your definition is very narrow. I personally love grouping but far be it for me to impose my ideas on socializing on others. How can you define socializing to mean you cannot solo. I know of individuals who spend a lot of time just chatting away in guildchat but never groups with us while I was in WoW. They make items and talk like mad but I have never grouped with them.They group with two other people and are part of the guild and give away items in the cities and talk on the general chat . They seem to be socializing. If you confine your definitions to exclude soloing your interpretation is very narrow and that is not in my opinion what socializing means.
Wow. Global chat is a chatroom, and nothing more. It has nothing to do with socializing inside a game, i.e. in game play. However, the people in your example seem to be going beyond the chatroom, and into game play. They don't need global chat to do that, it's just a side thing that they could just as easily substitute this forum for. Or IRC or ICQ would be better substitutions, I guess.
I can see why you're interested in Rift. No offense by that, go for what you want and like. But you don't see socialization in game play the same way I do, that's for sure.
By the way, I don't think anyone's trying to force anything on anyone. I think it's more about making as actual Massively Multiplayer game environment, instead of a single player environment with a chatroom slapped on top.
It is the main reason I play MMO instead of single player RPGs or FPS games.
I agree with this. It can be challenging sometimes, because I am a fairly anti-social person. It's easy to say that socialization has taken a huge backseat to progression in MMOs, but I find myself doing a lot of the things I complain about on here sometimes. Nothing like a good break from MMOs to bring back that desire for interaction though. I'm always very open and talkative, trying to find new friends when I start playing after a long hiatus. It seems like the longer I play (obsess) the less I start to care about everyone else. It should be the opposite, in my opinion.
I'd like to blame the gameplay in hopes that an MMO comes along that really focuses on community and interaction without being a huge porn billboard, but I think I might just be damaged.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I am an old EQer I can socialize with the best of them. Huge talker in fact people often ask me to shut up in Vent. I am playing Rift for now lol it does not mean much I just spent an afternoon doing some signature does not mean I am a huge supporter of the game. For now I am playing on the Time Locked Progression server of Everquest.
I think chatting is socializing. You socialize in real life by talking and chatting with others why not in game in fact I think most people regret ever asking me to speak ? This is what I don't get why confine your socializing to gameplay ? Why is socializing in a MMORPG limited to grouping and why isn't other forms of interaction like trading and crafting not considered socializing ? Even if a person solos all day he comes back and decides to trade in the trade channel isn't that interaction counted or can you qualify and quantify interaction ?
In Vanguard there was this goblin who spent all the time yelling yes using /yell and then using the chat channels to talk about how he can make houses. That was all he did he made houses for people and other than that I heard he only grouped with his guild and his socializing involved his roleplaying as a goblin builder. He used to have elaborate advertising would you consider him socializing although he was using a form of globat chat ? I knew one guild in Vanguard who had Mordebi slaves who would not speak. That was really weird.
How about the performers in the Bird and Baby Inn in LotRO where they belonged to very strict guilds and outside of performing they do not talk to you.
I edited because he was a goblin not a gnome and I am using these examples not to confuse or obfuscate the issue but asking where do you draw the line ,what do you consider as socializing or are roleplayers who play as social outcasts not qualify ?
i wish MMos would do more for socializing like adding ingame minigames like.. walk in to a taverns and have tables you can sit at and play chess or checkers or a dart board. Maybe some sort of interactive group crafting/gathering where it actually takes cooperative participation.
I loved the old days of SWG where people would gather in hospitals for healing or cantinas for temp buffs or playing music and dancing or for finding someone to redo your hair or add tatoos etc. To me that and chat are socializing.
According to my thread "Slit their wrist or shut your mouth" socialization is actually NOT that important to a lot of people.
With the amount of trolls which assaulted that thread and attacked the OP personally, I really think there is a significant amount of players who don't care about socialization at all, or even tend to be AGAINST it.
I never realized that so many players would support a "Mime" type group member who is so anti-social they would not even answer simple group questions such as "What do you guys want to do?" or "Do you have any quests we can do?"
Some people seem to invoke the Bystander Effect when it comes to socializing, as if it's something to be feared. "Oh...someone else will answer the group leader's question. I have quests, but someone else will put theirs forth."
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
According to my thread "Slit their wrist or shut your mouth" socialization is actually NOT that important to a lot of people.
With the amount of trolls which assaulted that thread and attacked the OP personally, I really think there is a significant amount of players who don't care about socialization at all, or even tend to be AGAINST it.
I never realized that so many players would support a "Mime" type group member who is so anti-social they would not even answer simple group questions such as "What do you guys want to do?" or "Do you have any quests we can do?"
Some people seem to invoke the Bystander Effect when it comes to socializing, as if it's something to be feared. "Oh...someone else will answer the group leader's question. I have quests, but someone else will put theirs forth."
birds of a feather flock together..but, sometimes its very hard to find birds like yourself though. Especialy with the rush to the end crowd. people used to chat more when there was more interdependance between players and classes. when you had to have a healer and a tank and CC and someone who pulled or lead. Nowadays classes can nearly do it all themselves and have the attitude "if i dont need you, why talk to you"
Ive even noticed when people DO talk or respond they dont even bother to use the persons chosen name. its all Hey tank! or WTF healer?!?
According to my thread "Slit their wrist or shut your mouth" socialization is actually NOT that important to a lot of people.
With the amount of trolls which assaulted that thread and attacked the OP personally, I really think there is a significant amount of players who don't care about socialization at all, or even tend to be AGAINST it.
I never realized that so many players would support a "Mime" type group member who is so anti-social they would not even answer simple group questions such as "What do you guys want to do?" or "Do you have any quests we can do?"
Some people seem to invoke the Bystander Effect when it comes to socializing, as if it's something to be feared. "Oh...someone else will answer the group leader's question. I have quests, but someone else will put theirs forth."
birds of a feather flock together..but, sometimes its very hard to find birds like yourself though. Especialy with the rush to the end crowd. people used to chat more when there was more interdependance between players and classes. when you had to have a healer and a tank and CC and someone who pulled or lead. Nowadays classes can nearly do it all themselves and have the attitude "if i dont need you, why talk to you"
Ive even noticed when people DO talk or respond they dont even bother to use the persons chosen name. its all Hey tank! or WTF healer?!?
Wow, you are right, and that's pathetic "Hey tank! Wtf Healer?" They really don't use names anymore. They don't even bother to stop and check WHO the healer is.
The thread I made was forced to close (I was about to as a moderator to close it anyways) because of the enourmous amount of trolling and off-topic posts which seemed to ignore the facts and instead attack assumed character.
These trolls were so threatened by socialization that they assume anyone who talks must be "overly talkative" or uninteresting/annoying. They seemed to ignore the fact in the story I was mature and it was mostly silent the majority of the time.
Onwards, one poster even claimed that he ONLY talks when he needs the group to finish a quest for him, or he feels the need to lecture others on how to play--- otherwise he is too busy grinding and grinding. All of the trolls seemed to be from the "Rush to the end" crowd, and some didn't understand why I felt the need to want to PK the mimes, quoting "You are immature and arrogant like all of the hardcore PvP players" who want a FFA PvP game where they can PK others.
Granted I love UO and Darkfall and I love PvP and could definitely be considered "hardcore" sometimes, but I'm also heavily into PvE as well. In fact, I loved DAOC's PvE as much as PvP, because I loved that game so much!
No one takes the time to play the MMORPG's anymore. Everyone seems to rush to end game ASAP with one hand while munching cheetos watching a MOVIE on other side of the screen on hulu.
No offense...wait...I mean 100% offense to those people, but if you are watching hulu while "grinding" then you obviously aren't into the game very much and should play something else...or at the very least take a time out to watch whatever it is you're watching.
Maybe it is this new generation who believes they can multi-task and focus? I'm sorry, but no one can do that. If you want to FULLY enjoy a movie, you have to "get into it" by watching it, and nothing else. One's focus cannot be everywhere at once, so the more ADHD your attention becomes, the less you'll be able to enjoy what you're doing.
Ugh... people who multitask make me sick because of how they are missing out so much on living. I also deal a lot with people who have mental disabilities (I am in the field of psychology) and it is very common for these people to have an ADHD-like focus where they believe they can multi-task, nay they MUST multi-task to keep their mind busy. For instance, people with severe mental scars seem to be unable to handle silence and must have music playing 24/7. Quite annoying to those of us who have a sound mind and thus can enjoy the silence of focus. I'm not saying a lot of people seem to have mental disabilities, but that lack of focus and this kind of multi-tasking is a clear form of boredom or some form of problem because it is heavily associated with what is common in problematic minds.
And I know what it's like. I spent many hours grinding away while doing something else. Why? Because honestly, I was bored and shouldn't have been playing the game in the first place. The moment I realized life was so much more enjoyable when I focused on a single objective at a time, I never wanted to ever go back to multi-tasking and even have a very hard time doing it.
One just cannot enjoy themselves unless they focus on living life, instead of avoiding it. Sadly, this new generation is so ADHD with their focus, they don't even know the beauty of focus, so they believe what they are doing IS enjoying, just like I once did when I was never able to focus. It only takes tasting life once to realize you were never living it.
When I log in to a MMORPG, I do so to play the game-- not to watch a movie while grinding.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
"in the real world you don't talk to random strangers, why should games have mechanics to encourage you to do so?"
I've heard this too and I actually have a respsonse to this that puts the issue to bed quite nicely:
In the "real world" If someone throws a party and invites a lot of people, many who may not know each other, they will often have things to do or offer games to play to get the people who don't know each other to interact. To break the ice. This is a common dynamic. The better a host does in getting their guests to mingle the more successful the party will be seen to have been.
In MMO's the devs are the hosts, the players are the guests. Its makes complete sense that the devs provide 'ice breakers'.
Complaint: Negated
Excellent way to look at it, I agree that it makes perfect sense to frame it in this light, and I'll be using this next time it gets tossed into the discussion.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, funny thing that. I realize that we here at the MMORPG.com forums are probably not a great representation of the greater gaming community, but you'd think judging from the responses so far that some developers might be interested in incorporating more socialization mechanics in their game designs that has been the case recently.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"in the real world you don't talk to random strangers, why should games have mechanics to encourage you to do so?"
I've heard this too and I actually have a respsonse to this that puts the issue to bed quite nicely:
In the "real world" If someone throws a party and invites a lot of people, many who may not know each other, they will often have things to do or offer games to play to get the people who don't know each other to interact. To break the ice. This is a common dynamic. The better a host does in getting their guests to mingle the more successful the party will be seen to have been.
In MMO's the devs are the hosts, the players are the guests. Its makes complete sense that the devs provide 'ice breakers'.
Complaint: Negated
Excellent way to look at it, I agree that it makes perfect sense to frame it in this light, and I'll be using this next time it gets tossed into the discussion.
What agreat analogy. Indeed, I shall do the same.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Yeah, funny thing that. I realize that we here at the MMORPG.com forums are probably not a great representation of the greater gaming community, but you'd think judging from the responses so far that some developers might be interested in incorporating more socialization mechanics in their game designs that has been the case recently.
Bringing players together--- ugh what a feat! Being the "party host" is definitely not an easy task. Not even in theory, let alone practice!
Here are some of the features I have to encourage community in Emergence Online. I state some of them to perhaps refine the ideas and garner opinion from those who may think otherwise.
1) Realm Pride. There are multiple Realms, and the entire game (PvE and PvP) is based on these Realm's and their success. Both PvE and PvP as well as Crafting, Harvesting, and Trading all progress the Realm further, making it more powerful. (PvE indirectly affects PvP, as does Trade). Our attempt is to try to make people feel pride and unity as their actions are "For the Realm!"
2) Crafting, Harvesting, and Trade. These are a huge deal. All items decay and break, so there is always a need for items. Items are lost upon death as well. Player crafting is about more than just equiping one's self, but also all of the Realm. Other players need crafters, NPC's need crafters because they run out of items. There are "Trade Adventures" which involve moving large amounts of items across the world. (A town running low on food or weapons, would need these food or weapons, or else that town may be lost when an enemy realm NPC army invades.
3) Invasions & a Changing World. Although this deals with PvP as well as PvE, it is entirely both. Every [time] if [conditions] are met then an enemy Realm sparks an invasion. NPC's fight NPC's. Depending on player involvement in PvE and PvP, their Realm grows stronger/weaker. For ex, if players from Realm #1 quested to "recruit more soldiers" there will be more NPC's to fight. If the NPC's all had Copper Swords, and players crafted Iron Swords to give to the NPC's via crafting quests, then those NPC's will be stronger. If a town loses, it is taken over, and the "zone" changes in PvE.
4) Taverns. These are where all information is found. In every city, there are taverns. Quests and Adventures, as well as player-made quests and groups are formed in taverns. Although this is not required, these are hotspots where players can sit and wait.
Taverns have mini-games from chess to playing as a bartender if a spot is available, or brewing in the basement. The longer players wait in Taverns and remain active in social mini-games or conversation, the more buffs they get, the more XP buffs they get, and the better / more rare the quests become.
See, as players wait, quests and events occur. Perhaps a NPC spawns (comes in the tavern) and says "I need 5 mercenaries for a trade quest to help me take 200 swords to the Mountain Town." or perhaps a random ! pops up above a barmaid and when the players click it, they get a rare quest to fight a dragon-- something that is uncommon. Every [time] a single quest is given, and the players decline or accept, with each decline making it a better and better quest. (Better reward, better style, etc.)
5) Local Trade Hotspots- hotspots where players can buy/sell their items. Player trade is limited to the marketplace. A player must be in the marketplace to trade. Items have a max gold value based on NPC's highest amount, so players can only trade gold via items, and the items have a max gold limit. If NPC's sell the same sword for 100 gold, a player may not sell the sword for 1000 gold. (This is also to prevent gold farmers). But the player may sell it for slightly more or give it away for free. Gold farmers would have to craft items to give to players to sell gold-- but the more of one item in the area, the less it is worth. Players can also setup their own shops here, and NPC's will come in to buy from them as well as PC's.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
The social aspect is pretty important and every game developer should be concerned about it. It is inevitable that at some point a MMORPG will get to be redundant. Without the social hook, there's nothing to keep playerbase interested.
MMORPG played in order played: Sims Online, WoW, CoX, EQ2, LinksRealm, LOTRO,TOR...and counting
I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions of what socializing is in MMOs. Socialization as far as MMOs are concerned is the ability of the developers to provide the necessary tools that help a player function as productive (not postive or negative) member of his/her community. It's not something that can be compared from MMO to MMO. Let's take a basic mmo and a new player. Does the mmo have something in place that teaches the basic mechanics? The function of their class in a group setting? A raid setting? And a PvP setting?
Does the mmo teach new player how to sell, repair and create items? Do they have a function like an auction house or bazaar feature? Do the developers teach new players how to use these features? How about chat. Is there means to add other players as friends? Ignore features or reporting tools? These are all things that a player needs to function as a productive member of a online community.
So where does speaking nice to others come in? Saying thank you? Showing courtesy? Unfortunately these are thing that players need to have a grasp on BEFORE they come into games. It's not something that can be learned in 30 day trial period. All developers have to do is make sure that by the end of the journey, the new player knows how to play the game. That's socialzing. If they choose to do so nicely is entirely up to the player themselves. Because when you get into the realm of being judgemental of the behavior of others, you run the risk of appearing like a angry mob chasing away undesirables from your small hick town. But if that's what you want in the first place, then by all means continue. But if you want others to see how nice things can be, then start showing a little small town hospitality and show them city folk how community is done.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"How important is socialization to you in MMORPG's?"
For me it's critically important.
An MMORPG that successfully implements a system where people *want* to work with each other, network, has a major hook at retention. A system where people feel compelled to naturally help each other and group up. The best I saw had people grouping up because it was the natural thing to do. Newbies weren't left to rot and die on the vine. It was quite common for veterans to see a struggling newbie and show them pointers to play the game better.
Now let me say this though: There is a major line in a game that encourages, nudges players to group up and help each other, compared to a game that forces grouping. I totally despise MMORPGs that forces players into aspects of gameplay, and forced grouping is one of those aspects.
The game that I once played had it right. Most of the time I found myself playing in groups. Quite a significant bit of it were with strangers in rather pleasant *gasp* PUGs. Anyways, the game encourged grouping for the better. But there were times that I just wanted to be Lone Wolf. And doing the occasional solo play was not a problematic experience at all. The community was very, very tight knit because all characters were integral to the game, even pure non-combat type of characters.
"No man is an island" in that game.
People socialized with each other in the town / city cantinas, bars, medical centers, etc. You TALKED to the doctors patching up your wounds at the hospital, as well as the other recovering players there. You TALKED to the entertainers at the cantinas (think of them as clubs in the game) as well as other visitors there. Party members in PUGs TALKED to each other.
In that game, my friends list was the largest I've ever had compared to any MMORPG I played before or since. The community was the tightest I've seen on any MMORPG I have ever played before, or since.
I've played MMORPGs that even though you saw a bunch of other players, nobody ever gave each other the time of day, much less help someone. If I wanted that kind of experience in a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game where I was essentially alone, I'll play Fallout 3, Oblivion, or whatever Single Player RPG.
Anyways, I said at the beginning that a MMORPG with good socialization and networking within the playerbasae has a major advantage of a "hook" at retention. Because being part of a damn good community makes it alot tougher in leaving the game.
The game that I once played had major, lingering issues that the developers were slow to resolve (and much later in hindsight, never did resolve). There were times that I wanted to leave. But even me, as a player that never, ever joins guilds in any MMORPG, I couldn't get myself to leave in those days. Because I would have missed the community I felt I was a part of. All the happenings. Even the drama, both good and bad, on the server. All the friends I had from all that grouping. The newbies that became friends because I took the time to show them how to really play the game. All the awesome PUGs that lasted for hours upon hours, and the random ass discussions we had. I didn't want to leave the people, the community that I felt a part of, even though the majority were strangers to me.
That of course changed when the developers altered the game finally that made people leave in heaping droves. I hated the changes, and the resulting changes were bad enough that the community was destroyed. So... no worthwhile community? I simply had no reason to play the game anymore.
The Cancel button was much easier to hit. But when the community and the game's social nature were in stride, hitting Cancel was like tearing off an arm. I couldn't bring myself to do it in those few times I did want to leave prior.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Social interaction is nice as long as you know about the large number of damaged people out there. Many of us have seen people in MMO's that suddenly change from nice to evil in the space of a millisecond.
Social interaction is nice as long as you know about the large number of damaged people out there. Many of us have seen people in MMO's that suddenly change from nice to evil in the space of a millisecond.
My answer to that is don't put the community in a bad light because of the idiots that you do come across.
"There's always that 10%" out there.
Hell, even in the FPS gaming community, for all the smack talking and what not involved, there's alot of good people there. Guys that'll cover your 6. And not just because they'll get a kill credit for saving your ass
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Comments
So, you're agreeing with me? That the "Massive" includes all the other people? Nariusseldon's comment leaves me wondering if he wouldn't just as well play a Single Player game in Muti-Player mode (or the typical so called "MMO" these days). But that still leaves me wondering where the "Massive" is in that game play.
Once upon a time....
I like socializing with other introverts. In the presence of even one extrovert, I'd rather play alone.
I think you are trying to argue 'massively' to mean you need to interact within the game or why play when all it does is give you the possibility of interaction. What massively multiplayer does is give you the possibility of multiple interaction but it does not mean you interact with everyone which is not possible unless you take global chat into consideration. Global chat where anyone anywhere could in the world talk is the only time the word massively makes sense. Otherwise what you do is form microcosms within the world with your guild or group or trade cronies. You are not at any time actually taking part in the massively part except that you are part of the game.
That is why people who condemn others who do not want to chat within the game with strangers and not group just solo are doing their own interaction their way in my book. You cannot impose your definition because MMORPG does not in reality allow you to interact with everyone just the possibility of meeting someone who are the inhabitants of the world. You can also solo and just use the chat channels while soloing and you are part of the MMORPG universe. Your definition is very narrow. I personally love grouping but far be it for me to impose my ideas on socializing on others. How can you define socializing to mean you cannot solo. I know of individuals who spend a lot of time just chatting away in guildchat but never groups with us while I was in WoW. They make items and talk like mad but I have never grouped with them.They group with two other people and are part of the guild and give away items in the cities and talk on the general chat . They seem to be socializing. If you confine your definitions to exclude soloing your interpretation is very narrow and that is not in my opinion what socializing means.
Wow. Global chat is a chatroom, and nothing more. It has nothing to do with socializing inside a game, i.e. in game play. However, the people in your example seem to be going beyond the chatroom, and into game play. They don't need global chat to do that, it's just a side thing that they could just as easily substitute this forum for. Or IRC or ICQ would be better substitutions, I guess.
I can see why you're interested in Rift. No offense by that, go for what you want and like. But you don't see socialization in game play the same way I do, that's for sure.
By the way, I don't think anyone's trying to force anything on anyone. I think it's more about making as actual Massively Multiplayer game environment, instead of a single player environment with a chatroom slapped on top.
Once upon a time....
I agree with this. It can be challenging sometimes, because I am a fairly anti-social person. It's easy to say that socialization has taken a huge backseat to progression in MMOs, but I find myself doing a lot of the things I complain about on here sometimes. Nothing like a good break from MMOs to bring back that desire for interaction though. I'm always very open and talkative, trying to find new friends when I start playing after a long hiatus. It seems like the longer I play (obsess) the less I start to care about everyone else. It should be the opposite, in my opinion.
I'd like to blame the gameplay in hopes that an MMO comes along that really focuses on community and interaction without being a huge porn billboard, but I think I might just be damaged.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I am an old EQer I can socialize with the best of them. Huge talker in fact people often ask me to shut up in Vent. I am playing Rift for now lol it does not mean much I just spent an afternoon doing some signature does not mean I am a huge supporter of the game. For now I am playing on the Time Locked Progression server of Everquest.
I think chatting is socializing. You socialize in real life by talking and chatting with others why not in game in fact I think most people regret ever asking me to speak
? This is what I don't get why confine your socializing to gameplay ? Why is socializing in a MMORPG limited to grouping and why isn't other forms of interaction like trading and crafting not considered socializing ? Even if a person solos all day he comes back and decides to trade in the trade channel isn't that interaction counted or can you qualify and quantify interaction ?
In Vanguard there was this goblin who spent all the time yelling yes using /yell and then using the chat channels to talk about how he can make houses. That was all he did he made houses for people and other than that I heard he only grouped with his guild and his socializing involved his roleplaying as a goblin builder. He used to have elaborate advertising would you consider him socializing although he was using a form of globat chat ? I knew one guild in Vanguard who had Mordebi slaves who would not speak. That was really weird.
How about the performers in the Bird and Baby Inn in LotRO where they belonged to very strict guilds and outside of performing they do not talk to you.
I edited because he was a goblin not a gnome and I am using these examples not to confuse or obfuscate the issue but asking where do you draw the line ,what do you consider as socializing or are roleplayers who play as social outcasts not qualify ?
i wish MMos would do more for socializing like adding ingame minigames like.. walk in to a taverns and have tables you can sit at and play chess or checkers or a dart board. Maybe some sort of interactive group crafting/gathering where it actually takes cooperative participation.
I loved the old days of SWG where people would gather in hospitals for healing or cantinas for temp buffs or playing music and dancing or for finding someone to redo your hair or add tatoos etc. To me that and chat are socializing.
According to my thread "Slit their wrist or shut your mouth" socialization is actually NOT that important to a lot of people.
With the amount of trolls which assaulted that thread and attacked the OP personally, I really think there is a significant amount of players who don't care about socialization at all, or even tend to be AGAINST it.
I never realized that so many players would support a "Mime" type group member who is so anti-social they would not even answer simple group questions such as "What do you guys want to do?" or "Do you have any quests we can do?"
Some people seem to invoke the Bystander Effect when it comes to socializing, as if it's something to be feared. "Oh...someone else will answer the group leader's question. I have quests, but someone else will put theirs forth."
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
birds of a feather flock together..but, sometimes its very hard to find birds like yourself though. Especialy with the rush to the end crowd. people used to chat more when there was more interdependance between players and classes. when you had to have a healer and a tank and CC and someone who pulled or lead. Nowadays classes can nearly do it all themselves and have the attitude "if i dont need you, why talk to you"
Ive even noticed when people DO talk or respond they dont even bother to use the persons chosen name. its all Hey tank! or WTF healer?!?
It's the most forefront reason I play these games.
glad to see the majority said yes.
i was worried
Wow, you are right, and that's pathetic "Hey tank! Wtf Healer?" They really don't use names anymore. They don't even bother to stop and check WHO the healer is.
The thread I made was forced to close (I was about to as a moderator to close it anyways) because of the enourmous amount of trolling and off-topic posts which seemed to ignore the facts and instead attack assumed character.
These trolls were so threatened by socialization that they assume anyone who talks must be "overly talkative" or uninteresting/annoying. They seemed to ignore the fact in the story I was mature and it was mostly silent the majority of the time.
Onwards, one poster even claimed that he ONLY talks when he needs the group to finish a quest for him, or he feels the need to lecture others on how to play--- otherwise he is too busy grinding and grinding. All of the trolls seemed to be from the "Rush to the end" crowd, and some didn't understand why I felt the need to want to PK the mimes, quoting "You are immature and arrogant like all of the hardcore PvP players" who want a FFA PvP game where they can PK others.
Granted I love UO and Darkfall and I love PvP and could definitely be considered "hardcore" sometimes, but I'm also heavily into PvE as well. In fact, I loved DAOC's PvE as much as PvP, because I loved that game so much!
No one takes the time to play the MMORPG's anymore. Everyone seems to rush to end game ASAP with one hand while munching cheetos watching a MOVIE on other side of the screen on hulu.
No offense...wait...I mean 100% offense to those people, but if you are watching hulu while "grinding" then you obviously aren't into the game very much and should play something else...or at the very least take a time out to watch whatever it is you're watching.
Maybe it is this new generation who believes they can multi-task and focus? I'm sorry, but no one can do that. If you want to FULLY enjoy a movie, you have to "get into it" by watching it, and nothing else. One's focus cannot be everywhere at once, so the more ADHD your attention becomes, the less you'll be able to enjoy what you're doing.
Ugh... people who multitask make me sick because of how they are missing out so much on living. I also deal a lot with people who have mental disabilities (I am in the field of psychology) and it is very common for these people to have an ADHD-like focus where they believe they can multi-task, nay they MUST multi-task to keep their mind busy. For instance, people with severe mental scars seem to be unable to handle silence and must have music playing 24/7. Quite annoying to those of us who have a sound mind and thus can enjoy the silence of focus. I'm not saying a lot of people seem to have mental disabilities, but that lack of focus and this kind of multi-tasking is a clear form of boredom or some form of problem because it is heavily associated with what is common in problematic minds.
And I know what it's like. I spent many hours grinding away while doing something else. Why? Because honestly, I was bored and shouldn't have been playing the game in the first place. The moment I realized life was so much more enjoyable when I focused on a single objective at a time, I never wanted to ever go back to multi-tasking and even have a very hard time doing it.
One just cannot enjoy themselves unless they focus on living life, instead of avoiding it. Sadly, this new generation is so ADHD with their focus, they don't even know the beauty of focus, so they believe what they are doing IS enjoying, just like I once did when I was never able to focus. It only takes tasting life once to realize you were never living it.
When I log in to a MMORPG, I do so to play the game-- not to watch a movie while grinding.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Excellent way to look at it, I agree that it makes perfect sense to frame it in this light, and I'll be using this next time it gets tossed into the discussion.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, funny thing that. I realize that we here at the MMORPG.com forums are probably not a great representation of the greater gaming community, but you'd think judging from the responses so far that some developers might be interested in incorporating more socialization mechanics in their game designs that has been the case recently.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What agreat analogy. Indeed, I shall do the same.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Bringing players together--- ugh what a feat! Being the "party host" is definitely not an easy task. Not even in theory, let alone practice!
Here are some of the features I have to encourage community in Emergence Online. I state some of them to perhaps refine the ideas and garner opinion from those who may think otherwise.
1) Realm Pride. There are multiple Realms, and the entire game (PvE and PvP) is based on these Realm's and their success. Both PvE and PvP as well as Crafting, Harvesting, and Trading all progress the Realm further, making it more powerful. (PvE indirectly affects PvP, as does Trade). Our attempt is to try to make people feel pride and unity as their actions are "For the Realm!"
2) Crafting, Harvesting, and Trade. These are a huge deal. All items decay and break, so there is always a need for items. Items are lost upon death as well. Player crafting is about more than just equiping one's self, but also all of the Realm. Other players need crafters, NPC's need crafters because they run out of items. There are "Trade Adventures" which involve moving large amounts of items across the world. (A town running low on food or weapons, would need these food or weapons, or else that town may be lost when an enemy realm NPC army invades.
3) Invasions & a Changing World. Although this deals with PvP as well as PvE, it is entirely both. Every [time] if [conditions] are met then an enemy Realm sparks an invasion. NPC's fight NPC's. Depending on player involvement in PvE and PvP, their Realm grows stronger/weaker. For ex, if players from Realm #1 quested to "recruit more soldiers" there will be more NPC's to fight. If the NPC's all had Copper Swords, and players crafted Iron Swords to give to the NPC's via crafting quests, then those NPC's will be stronger. If a town loses, it is taken over, and the "zone" changes in PvE.
4) Taverns. These are where all information is found. In every city, there are taverns. Quests and Adventures, as well as player-made quests and groups are formed in taverns. Although this is not required, these are hotspots where players can sit and wait.
Taverns have mini-games from chess to playing as a bartender if a spot is available, or brewing in the basement. The longer players wait in Taverns and remain active in social mini-games or conversation, the more buffs they get, the more XP buffs they get, and the better / more rare the quests become.
See, as players wait, quests and events occur. Perhaps a NPC spawns (comes in the tavern) and says "I need 5 mercenaries for a trade quest to help me take 200 swords to the Mountain Town." or perhaps a random ! pops up above a barmaid and when the players click it, they get a rare quest to fight a dragon-- something that is uncommon. Every [time] a single quest is given, and the players decline or accept, with each decline making it a better and better quest. (Better reward, better style, etc.)
5) Local Trade Hotspots- hotspots where players can buy/sell their items. Player trade is limited to the marketplace. A player must be in the marketplace to trade. Items have a max gold value based on NPC's highest amount, so players can only trade gold via items, and the items have a max gold limit. If NPC's sell the same sword for 100 gold, a player may not sell the sword for 1000 gold. (This is also to prevent gold farmers). But the player may sell it for slightly more or give it away for free. Gold farmers would have to craft items to give to players to sell gold-- but the more of one item in the area, the less it is worth. Players can also setup their own shops here, and NPC's will come in to buy from them as well as PC's.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
The social aspect is pretty important and every game developer should be concerned about it. It is inevitable that at some point a MMORPG will get to be redundant. Without the social hook, there's nothing to keep playerbase interested.
MMORPG played in order played: Sims Online, WoW, CoX, EQ2, LinksRealm, LOTRO,TOR...and counting
It's the primary reason I play. People ARE the game, not pretend places and pixelated prizes...
...people.
I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions of what socializing is in MMOs. Socialization as far as MMOs are concerned is the ability of the developers to provide the necessary tools that help a player function as productive (not postive or negative) member of his/her community. It's not something that can be compared from MMO to MMO. Let's take a basic mmo and a new player. Does the mmo have something in place that teaches the basic mechanics? The function of their class in a group setting? A raid setting? And a PvP setting?
Does the mmo teach new player how to sell, repair and create items? Do they have a function like an auction house or bazaar feature? Do the developers teach new players how to use these features? How about chat. Is there means to add other players as friends? Ignore features or reporting tools? These are all things that a player needs to function as a productive member of a online community.
So where does speaking nice to others come in? Saying thank you? Showing courtesy? Unfortunately these are thing that players need to have a grasp on BEFORE they come into games. It's not something that can be learned in 30 day trial period. All developers have to do is make sure that by the end of the journey, the new player knows how to play the game. That's socialzing. If they choose to do so nicely is entirely up to the player themselves. Because when you get into the realm of being judgemental of the behavior of others, you run the risk of appearing like a angry mob chasing away undesirables from your small hick town. But if that's what you want in the first place, then by all means continue. But if you want others to see how nice things can be, then start showing a little small town hospitality and show them city folk how community is done.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
From your keyboard to the Game God's eyes.
I agree 200%.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Yes. I also agree. People are the most important thing when it comes to MMOs for me.
Sadly most of those folks seem to be employed making modern MMORPG's.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"How important is socialization to you in MMORPG's?"
For me it's critically important.
An MMORPG that successfully implements a system where people *want* to work with each other, network, has a major hook at retention. A system where people feel compelled to naturally help each other and group up. The best I saw had people grouping up because it was the natural thing to do. Newbies weren't left to rot and die on the vine. It was quite common for veterans to see a struggling newbie and show them pointers to play the game better.
Now let me say this though: There is a major line in a game that encourages, nudges players to group up and help each other, compared to a game that forces grouping. I totally despise MMORPGs that forces players into aspects of gameplay, and forced grouping is one of those aspects.
The game that I once played had it right. Most of the time I found myself playing in groups. Quite a significant bit of it were with strangers in rather pleasant *gasp* PUGs. Anyways, the game encourged grouping for the better. But there were times that I just wanted to be Lone Wolf. And doing the occasional solo play was not a problematic experience at all. The community was very, very tight knit because all characters were integral to the game, even pure non-combat type of characters.
"No man is an island" in that game.
People socialized with each other in the town / city cantinas, bars, medical centers, etc. You TALKED to the doctors patching up your wounds at the hospital, as well as the other recovering players there. You TALKED to the entertainers at the cantinas (think of them as clubs in the game) as well as other visitors there. Party members in PUGs TALKED to each other.
In that game, my friends list was the largest I've ever had compared to any MMORPG I played before or since. The community was the tightest I've seen on any MMORPG I have ever played before, or since.
I've played MMORPGs that even though you saw a bunch of other players, nobody ever gave each other the time of day, much less help someone. If I wanted that kind of experience in a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game where I was essentially alone, I'll play Fallout 3, Oblivion, or whatever Single Player RPG.
Anyways, I said at the beginning that a MMORPG with good socialization and networking within the playerbasae has a major advantage of a "hook" at retention. Because being part of a damn good community makes it alot tougher in leaving the game.
The game that I once played had major, lingering issues that the developers were slow to resolve (and much later in hindsight, never did resolve). There were times that I wanted to leave. But even me, as a player that never, ever joins guilds in any MMORPG, I couldn't get myself to leave in those days. Because I would have missed the community I felt I was a part of. All the happenings. Even the drama, both good and bad, on the server. All the friends I had from all that grouping. The newbies that became friends because I took the time to show them how to really play the game. All the awesome PUGs that lasted for hours upon hours, and the random ass discussions we had. I didn't want to leave the people, the community that I felt a part of, even though the majority were strangers to me.
That of course changed when the developers altered the game finally that made people leave in heaping droves. I hated the changes, and the resulting changes were bad enough that the community was destroyed. So... no worthwhile community? I simply had no reason to play the game anymore.
The Cancel button was much easier to hit. But when the community and the game's social nature were in stride, hitting Cancel was like tearing off an arm. I couldn't bring myself to do it in those few times I did want to leave prior.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Social interaction is nice as long as you know about the large number of damaged people out there. Many of us have seen people in MMO's that suddenly change from nice to evil in the space of a millisecond.
My answer to that is don't put the community in a bad light because of the idiots that you do come across.
"There's always that 10%" out there.
Hell, even in the FPS gaming community, for all the smack talking and what not involved, there's alot of good people there. Guys that'll cover your 6. And not just because they'll get a kill credit for saving your ass
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)