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Will Xsyon become Eve online for PVP, player politics and Alliances?
Drmccoy
Member Posts: 52
I am the type of player where i need purpose in order to PvP otherwise I lose interest quickly. PvP to get points, titles, earn loot or only personal rewards from the"grind" do not give me enjoyment or reason to continue with these games. However PvP in order to protect your lands, your relics, your guilds property, protect your aliance from players deemed "evil" is what it is all about for me.
Daoc was the first feeling I got of this with the frontiers, keep and relic defenses. Eve Online went a step further by Corps and Aliances claiming important parts of space and policing it as they see fit. The game had built in UI to classify other Corps and alliances so that you can easily tell if they were allied friendlies, neutrals or enemies. The player driven politics this created was second to none out there. Corps declaring war on others for 'whatever' reasons. Possibly hiring mercenary corps to do their bidding etc all possible with the UI as well. Quite amazing and what all sandbox game should evolve into in my opnion. Of course Eve was a bit more hardcore as death hurt so much but because of the nature of space it was also a lot harder to be killed. This also made it such a huge adrenaline rush when you got a kill and looted all the floating remains... wow what a feeling, posting that kill record on your corps website 
So I realize Xsyon is not at this lvl today. I dont even know what the death penalty is in Pvp? From what you guys know about the game , the dev goals, interviews etc, do you see it going this way? Have they stated they will have Ui functionality to facilitate this type of player driven politics? Certain areas worth fighting over etc? I really hope so as it has peaked my interest from what I have started reading so far.
thanks
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Comments
death penalty is looting rights. Right now its a great crafting game, but the combat is more or less a place holder. Its too new to tell if the pvp will be good enough to keep the hardcore pvpers that make politics possible. The game seems to be either people only interested in pve, and not concerned with anyone outside their small clique, and darkfall players. Its going to be interesting to see how these polar opposites mix and what politics will result, or if one crowd will leave.
Your tribes base is a protected safe zone, i dont think they want it to be siegeable. However outside the protected tribe area you can wreck whatever they build and pvp them, not sure theres a comparable game so its going to be hard to tell how it all plays out.
I think if they did something along the lines of tribes banding together to make a nation, then building a seigable castle, then youll get some serious pvp politics, but for now its going to be griefers and anti griefers from the DF community, with isolated pve'ers uniterested in conversation or politics, just wanting to build their camp up, and they will be protected and allowed to do so.
Too early to tell basically, so much of the game is just on paper, and its hard to gague the community right now, given the server apocolypse that happend and the impending wipe.
I think we will know better about everything in a week or two after the game wipes and everyone returns. Mabey a year realisticly before we see a majority of the non craft related material fleshed out.
However, from what ive seen, the game does lack the typical "nothing is working as intended" plague that effects most indy sandbox makers, a lot of the sand in this game works right now. Where darkfall was a combat game with little sand other than that, this game does the opposite.
I don't have a quote but I read the lead dev mention tribal warfare and the mechanics, including destroying buildings and looting chests etc. however there were many mechanics so that pve tribes could opt out as well as a possiblity of a separate pvp warfare server so the pve players can be left alone if the pop is big enough and all..
this ws all speculation and will be at least 3-6 months down the line I'm sure, but came from the devs mouth. he does respect the pvp playerbase as much as the "carebears" swear this will be only a pve game.
Your putting that last big a bit wrong. Its not a matter of what one group thinks or the other, its what it really is right now. And the truth is the focus is not on PvP. What it will evolve into is up for debate still, but Notorious Games has already given hint towards its direction which should include more focus on PvP.
So when your going off up there about the difference between a PvP playerbase and "carebears" remember this games focus right now is on the crafting side (notice how I didnt say carbear there? You should try it some time, kinda like a carebear not calling you a f'in jackass.)
Right now Xsyon is for the carebears because the focus in on the carebear world (used the carebear term here so the previous poster didnt get all confused with big words and stuff). If your playing EvE, which I have for a long time myself, you should NOT be expecting Xsyon to be as focused on that type of gameplay at this time.
I wish people stopped thinking of PvP in black and white. Why does it have to be ATTID crafters haeven or DarkFall PvP arena.
We don't have PvP now becouse there is nothing to fight for, and out of war PvP was and is meant to be marginal.
Soon scrap piles will vanish. We'll know what resources have value and where to get them. We'll start claiming resources and that's where territorial conflicts will begin. And it will begin to gain resources, not to crush other tribe becouse "we don't like you". Main tribal grounds should be safe(not safezones, but not claimable), and we have to build walls and gates to keep people in them safe.
Tribes are able to set thier own currency, that gives us a lot of space for politics and economical warfare.
I'm in a biggest "carebear" tribe in game and we have about the same number of PvP crafters as most of PvP tribes have members.
We even have some "fans"(small evil tribe nearby) and we're fighting all day, while our non-PvP members are crafting in peace.
what is the point of building any defencive structure if nobody can attack you in your totem's radius? i would seem to me that all you need is more people to join your tribe so your safe radius becomes bigger.....hence no need to fight, just get a bigger tribe an bigger safe zone.
You can enter someone's radius and anything not in a basket/pack you can take.
"Sorting" their piles of stacked metal, plastic, clothe, leather etc into your inventory. Hence "raiding".
So you will want to fortify your territory to protect your collected/gathered resources for sure.
You ever watch Mad Max Road Warrior? Picture that. You can literally hold a group hostage in their territory if you wanted too. So even though you cannot "lose" the territory, you still want to build walls/ways to keep people out etc.
It's a sandbox, there are lots of scenarios. You have to use your imagination.
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In my opinion it's not really known yet how PvP will develop. Partly it depends on the vision the developers are following, but equally it depends on what players do. It's a difficult balance.
Right now (and, yes, this is my wild guesstimate) we have a population that consists of about 75% building, crafting, community building people and 25% PvP oriented people. As matter of fact, all PvP is FFA PvP now (tribal warfare isn't yet implemented) and that attracts a certain type of player. The number of gank squads in the game is increasing, as is the number of people and guilds coming to Xsyon from Darkfall and Mortal Online.
Whether the game can survive this I do not know. I believe it can but it wouldn't be the first game either where a minority of players with a certain playstyle are able to dictate their playstyle on others to an extent that the others leave the game. Whether Xsyon will develop into a DAoC or Eve style of PvP or whether it will develop into a Darkfall style can hardly be answered now.
(For the record, personally, I would prefer the DAoC and/or Eve style.)
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With the emphasis on defense structurs and keeping looters away from your tribal lands, this can easily fuel tribal wars and server politics as everything is about rights, ownership and resources.
To put it simply... no, it wont be like Eve online for pvp. But thats mostly because eve is very different, it has support for so many people to play. But, thats not to say i don't think it will have a big pvp purpose. It's a sandbox, tribes will grow big, and make enemies when trying to expand their land. You will have to fortify your holdings against enemy tribes trying to steal your resources, and go out hunting nomadic thief tribes.
Their is a lot of possibilities for pvp, and xsyon has support for a lot of different play styles(or will soon), the developers are really rolling out stuff fast, and doing a pretty good job compared to other indie companies (see av , starvualt, and whoever made earthrise), so I think their is a good chance we will finally have a great new sandbox on the horizon, and thats why its hype just exploded, which is something the devs weren't expecting.
edit: also, you gotta keep in mind that the game will evolve as time goes on, more land will be discovered more technology, resources ect. So their will always be more fuel to the fire.
Better not be scavenging on my land bro, or watch what I can do with even a bugged combat system
It's too early to tell how it will pan out but, the start is all about building a foundation in the empty world. They definately seem like the current set of rules are not the idea for the coninued game. I would be willing to bet on the fact that the safe zones for tribes will be changed or even removed. There is I feel a lot of qq'ing to come in the game in future.
As it stands right now, bug or otherwise, from my experience people who attack you in your safe zone you then become invulnerable to, in and out of the safe zone. 4 pvp'ers trying to pk me yesterday all died running away none of them took any hp off me despite me running miles away from my homestead where the attack first took place. Now even as I was laughing it still left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, kiting someone to the point where they have no choice but to die is a bit wrong. Had a hard time looting them too, it wouldn't let me take thier hats
I think a lot of people are looking for an opt in/out type of pvp, my issue with this would be the same one I had in SWG, the crafting only becomes kind of detatched from the rest of the game. Large tribes will have a seperate crafting tribe to supply the gear and what not at no risk to themselves, that single line of seperation removes a lot of tactics and diplomacy from a game.
Either way it will be interesting to see how it does evolve. My only problem is my guild are going to swtor whenever that may be so I may be gone before we get to the good parts.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
It would be interesting to see a game go in a different direction, but with no NPCs or factions, I'm not sure how they would do it. They do have more content planned, with old gods returning and whatnot, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. I know their intent was not for the game to turn into a primarily PvP driven game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I know they have just employed a new coder to work primarily on the combat mechanics which will help. But a poor combat engine can still be functional in PvP, people add the depth themselves, adaption and all that. But a bad combat engine in PvE is just enfuriating and pretty much pointless and counterproductive.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The proof is in the pudding !
So far they've talking about what pudding there are going to make, but no pudding has been made yet.
So really you cant really compare one pudding to another if one of the puddings hasnt yet been created.
Only when they have made the pudding, then you can get the taste and see if they are familar.
Therefore: Proof is in the Pudding !!!
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Currently theres a lot of developer discussion on pvp comming out of the xyson forums.
They are going to allow tribes the ability to opt out of tribal warfare, and maintain their safezone status.
Also, on top of thed anti-griefing policy, they are going to make it more of a pain to be an evil tribe, make death penalties stiffer for these players, and generally speaking give a nice advantage to those who choose to stay away from pvp.
Mabey someone could clear all of this up for me, but what im reading now, makes it appear that they are really making the FFA full loot PVP aspect of the game a shadow under the pve part.
You have to assume that 99% of tribes are going to opt for full saftey zones, and those tribes who wish to dabble in the evil side of pvp, will be punished for doing so.
So its looking like launch and the next 6-12 months of prelude is going to be a majority of good aligned, safe zoned, pve crafters. I know several tribes are still going to opt for the evil alignment, but im sure their number will dwindle, as the good alignment has more advantages.
I also hope they flesh out the ability to secure a highly strategic area, opt out of tribal warfare, and then serve as a resource hub for a pvp enabled tribe.
I get a sinking feeling that Xysom is moving away from the "Darkfall with sand" type sandbox, and more into a Sim game with limited pvp. This very well may be what they want, and what a majority of the community wants. Im not really for or against it. I still have the option of rolling my launch character as a full blown crafter over the combat ready pvp character. It seems you would be better off going this route untill they clarify where this game is headed on the pvp level.
It just seems they are reaching a point where they are choosing pve over pvp, understandably its hard to balance both in a game like this, however i thought the game would work just fine as a "anything goes" vpv sandbox, with a ton of sand.
Just be very aware if your looking into this game as a pvp game, its not looking too good, as it seems the bet route to take is to fully embrace the pve, join a good aligned tribe, and hope that there are still evil aligned tribes around come the tribal warfare.
Save zones will go, how destructive the power is you can wield on a tribes land ( player or building/tribe kill) is unknown.. but in a half year after the build up , friend and enemy making roaming outsite tribe land pvp then all save zones will go
proof? http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates
That is..comunity will be the focus of the dev direction, I highly dount the devs would ever let anyone walk around compleetly savely but I can see some mechanics in place that prefent compleet and utter destruction of tribes.
First 6-9 months is the Prelude, where the focus is building up society and more so waiting for some already done features be perfected and finished, and for more to be created.
This is a real creative way to allowing the company to start making money and not go defunct while still releasing a functional game. Since the people are just starting to reform into groups, and retake back the land from nature it makes sense they only have tents, basic weapons and tools, and not much to do. However, as people start getting more established, and the basics of life become less of a concern the world will slowly climb out of the dark ages.
Like I said it is really just a way to story wise make sense of features being added but I just think it is extremely clever.
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Exactly this. Looking forward to seeing the evolution of this game first hand.
We don't know much about PvP in this game yet. Jooky hasn't made his mind about how warfare will look like.
But, from what I've read, heard before recent wave of new players and all the PvP guessing, you're right. It's not going to be DF with sand.
FFA PvP is there in the shadows with harsh restrictions. Basicly you can kill someone, but you don't want to.
We will be fighting though, but for resources (resouce spots claimed by your tribe, not the ones you carry with you).
This type of PvP will be regulated by war system and it hasn't been introduced yet.
Even if you have your safezone if you're a big tribe you'll need/want to claim resource spot and you'll have to fight to keep it.
That's how I see it based on multiple posts and interviews I've read. How it'll look like we'll have to wait for Jooky to anounce it.
As of now, only your "capitol" is a safe zone. At some point larger tribes will be able to establish "colonies" and those will always be open to attack.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
In my opinion NO. It will probably turnout to be a small pop niche game.
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