Here is your simple solution. Rotation. guy X comes along, you keep a tally of how many times you kill him. write it down on a piece of paper or something. Once it gets to about 5 kills on him, give your tribemates a little jingle and ask someone to come out and assist you. Have your tribe mate just stay off a little way while you slowly keep killing him as he keeps coming back. Keep in mind the magic griefing number is 20, so kill him say.. 15 times, then "tag out" so to speak with one of the people you asked to come assist. There ya go, no possible ban at that point.
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If players must do this... they are being forced to fight the game mechanics.. which is a bad thing.
If this is a PvP game... then there should be no problem with someone "defending" whatever piece of pixel property they claim. That's kind of the point to PvP in a sandbox game.
I agree with you fully. you shouldn't HAVE to work around the system like that. But until it's changed etc, that is what people are going to have to do. Snail originally pointed out he's worried someone is going to be able to get him or someone else banned by letting him kill them 20 times. All i was suggesting is to take it one step further. IT boils down to the fact that there is a ruleset everyone has to follow. Some will exploit it to their benefit, and to make sure you arn't caught in the way they are trying to exploit it, is to exploit it in a different way. if you can't kill someone 20 times in a row, only kill them 15 and then get someone else from your tribe to take over. Carry around next to nothing and let them kill you a few times. If the devs are goign to be going by a ratio of 20 kills, then are they going to look at it as a 20:1 ratio? what about if you've killed them 20 times and they've kileld you 5? Do attacks interrupt actions in xsyon? i'm not sure, havn't tested it out, but if it does. wait tillt hey are crafting and smack them once with your lowest damage attack.
All i'm saying is that people that want to be dicks about something have found a way to be dicks, it is your job to find a way to out dick them so to speak to prevent them from ruining how the game was intended to be played.
Yes i do realise that having to "out dick" someone to have the game be the way it was intended is a bit of an unintentional playstyle thing.
Wait, its a PVP game with a limit to how many times you can PVP? From their website:
Jan 1st 2012.
War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
What if I join evil, can I kill people over and over? Thats what evil does. It seems like they want this to be a rpg where you can kill other players, but they dont want you to kill other playes.
All i'm saying is that people that want to be dicks about something have found a way to be dicks, it is your job to find a way to out dick them so to speak to prevent them from ruining how the game was intended to be played.
Wait, its a PVP game with a limit to how many times you can PVP? From their website:
Jan 1st 2012.
War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
What if I join evil, can I kill people over and over? Thats what evil does. It seems like they want this to be a rpg where you can kill other players, but they dont want you to kill other playes.
The ruling is more in the wy of sitting there killing the same person over and over again. you can kill 300 people a day if you want, just not really one person 20 times so to speak. tho i think they should elaborate it in the way of differentiating between ganking someone running along a road and someone actually fighting you.
Since there are humans on all sides of the equation, my guess would be that somebody has misunderstood something. This is almost always the case.
Either the OP misunderstood the devs/gm's response or the devs/gms misunderstood the OP's questions, or possibly everyone does not understand the intent of the game.
It does seem bizare (to me) that an unprotected junk pile in the wilderness cannot be 'protected' by a player...it seems exactly like the sort of thing that would cause conflict. It almost exists to create conflict. But...that doesn't mean that the developer thinks the same way.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
All i'm saying is that people that want to be dicks about something have found a way to be dicks, it is your job to find a way to out dick them so to speak to prevent them from ruining how the game was intended to be played.
Very true for all too many situations in online gaming, and very humorously worded.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So don't guard a junk pile alone. Have your tribe salvage the junk pile as quickly as possible and take turns killing the guy in the process. If you have 5 people you can kill then guy 95 times, each one of you killing 19 times, and not be griefers. 20 times seems like a fair number to me, we'll also have to wait and see what they do if/when they implement pvp servers.
I love the qame but it makes me laugh when people say it's not a pvp game. It has FFA PVP in it. You can call ita crafing game all day but...............it.................has..........FFA PVP......in ..............IT. Thus its a pvp game. They say good and evil is in the game,, well new flash carebears. Evil will kill you over and over till you cry to the devs. If they change the game to much ole jookie will not have a job to long and his lil dream on a game will die. Back on track with the topic though. If i kill you 20 times because you keep coming to my area now is that my fault? If a dog bites you when you try to come near it would you keep going to it? Some people are just that dumd to do it I guess.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
It is a PVP game, its also a deep crafting experience too.
The game is like double booking a raving night and a mosh pit night at your local club.
Both have equal rights to be there, but you know theres gonna be a fight on the dancefloor, especially when choosing tunes to play :P
My tip if your a fellow xsyon crafter, put ur tools in pounches and drop them in camp before you go exploring/gathering that way when ur robbed they'll only steal a few items!
PvP and looting is an element of the game. Doesn't make it a PvP game just because of some random criteria determined by some posters as to what constitutes a PvP game anymore than complaining about it being a "Crafting" game will make PvP disappear. (even tho the crafting nature of Xsyon obviously exceeds the PvP nature.... though I know saying so will draw contention).
Even " The Silence of the Lambs" had some funny elements..doesn't make it a comedy.
let's wait til the game launches correctly and when these issues arise we can flame on about them.. no point in speculating
Read my origional post. This isnt speculation. Read the scenario i laid out, that botht he guides in game and the lead developer confirmed would be treated as griefing.
Wait, its a PVP game with a limit to how many times you can PVP? From their website:
Jan 1st 2012.
War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
What if I join evil, can I kill people over and over? Thats what evil does. It seems like they want this to be a rpg where you can kill other players, but they dont want you to kill other playes.
The ruling is more in the wy of sitting there killing the same person over and over again. you can kill 300 people a day if you want, just not really one person 20 times so to speak. tho i think they should elaborate it in the way of differentiating between ganking someone running along a road and someone actually fighting you.
Confirmed by a guide in game: about 20 times in an hour is griefing. Doesnt matter the reason. All i have to do is keep comming back to you, letting you kill me, and now your a griefer, one step away from getting banned.
Wait, its a PVP game with a limit to how many times you can PVP? From their website:
Jan 1st 2012.
War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
What if I join evil, can I kill people over and over? Thats what evil does. It seems like they want this to be a rpg where you can kill other players, but they dont want you to kill other playes.
The ruling is more in the wy of sitting there killing the same person over and over again. you can kill 300 people a day if you want, just not really one person 20 times so to speak. tho i think they should elaborate it in the way of differentiating between ganking someone running along a road and someone actually fighting you.
Im probably just restating an argument that has gone on at the xyson forums, but Im in the camp of that in a pvp sandbox there should be no rules about greifing. Anyone can be killed for any reason at any time. Ive played darkfall and eve and been on the end of someone who kills you for fun, but I never complained to mommy.
However, I can totally understand how a developer or players would want some moderation. I just dont think FFA full loot games and moderation can coexist. Without evil, there is no good.
Since there are humans on all sides of the equation, my guess would be that somebody has misunderstood something. This is almost always the case.
Either the OP misunderstood the devs/gm's response or the devs/gms misunderstood the OP's questions, or possibly everyone does not understand the intent of the game.
It does seem bizare (to me) that an unprotected junk pile in the wilderness cannot be 'protected' by a player...it seems exactly like the sort of thing that would cause conflict. It almost exists to create conflict. But...that doesn't mean that the developer thinks the same way.
I oculdnt be more clear of the situation to the guide i talked to in game, its all in my OP. I then sent a message to the lead developer, he confimed what the guide said, restated that this was infact griefing and against the rules, and that the guides are encouraged to enforce the policy. I also threw int he situation of stalking and killing someone on a KOS list...which is more agregious but still...this is suppose to be a FFA Full Loot PVP game...theres no authority, it was all wiped int he apocolyspe.
I wish it all was a misunderstanding, as this wrecks the whole territorial warfare and control aspect of the game...
Perhaps their definition of griefing will change to a more accepted definition, however in a ffa pvp game, its only griefing if you refuse to get friends to help you, travel in a pack, and refuse to take advantage of this games very generous "running away in ghost form" that allows you to sprint for a few minuests away to respawn, or to go to your safe totem. There really should be no reason that anyone is able to gried, unless they choose to be griefed, as in my situation....which was more harassing towards me, the protector of the junk pile.
Again, the only people who get griefed, especially in this game, make the choice to get griefed.
The only reason i agree with some moderation is that RL interferes with virtual life (or vice versa..lol). At some point people have to log off and resources left unattended...so i believe it is acceptable to claim resources as untouchable ..at least within the bounds of a tribal area. Other wise we'd all just wait until all the tribes players are asleep and deplete the pile of all its shite. ..Tribes would have to post guard shifts in real time to watch over everything.....and I don't need my fun to be a second job...that's why I made the leap into this sandbox game.
As far as the 20 times banned thing for griefing...I think the moderators/GMs will be able to tell shit from silver and make an educated determination on who was griefing who. The 20 times thing was likely just a starting parameter to a system of measuring griefing.
The only reason i agree with some moderation is that RL interferes with virtual life (or vice versa..lol). At some point people have to log off and resources left unattended...so i believe it is acceptable to claim resources as untouchable ..at least within the bounds of a tribal area. Other wise we'd all just wait until all the tribes players are asleep and deplete the pile of all its shite. ..Tribes would have to post guard shifts in real time to watch over everything.....and I don't need my fun to be a second job...that's why I made the leap into this sandbox game.
As far as the 20 times banned thing for griefing...I think the moderators/GMs will be able to tell shit from silver and make an educated determination on who was griefing who. The 20 times thing was likely just a starting parameter to a system of measuring griefing.
Again, this isnt speculation, not sure how many time i have to repat this...this was confirmed by an in game guide and the lead developer. Read my OP, that was the situation presented to both the guide and the developer, both said it was griefing, as well as stalking someone on your KOS list and killing them repeatedly.
Ill say it again: get friends to travel with, hire mercenaries to kill griefers, find another spot to casually pve, if you get ganked, run far away in ghost form, its a very generous death penalty. There should be NO reasons someone is griefed unless its what they acuallly want, or are too stubborn to figure out a way around it. We dont need daddy GM to come in and make things all better. That or remove the FFA pvp and make it some sort of tibe only affair. The guy that i "griefed" was just being a stubborn jerk, he refused to leave the junk pile i had claimed (see territory CONTROL) i never chased him, i warned him after the first kill why it happend. He kept comming back, had the servers not gone down, i could have been warned and eventually banned for simply enforcing the games territory CONTROL aspect. These are the people that are going to make this policy suck, that and people who will now use it as a weapon. This scenario that was presented wasnt a case of the guide not knowing the situation, it was clearly laid out for him/her, and the rsulting opinion was that i was in fact griefing for maintaining control of territory.
Also, the safe zones are TEMPORARY, thats right temporary. Once they patch in defensive structures ect they go away. When you log off you better be sure that your totems gate is securly locked, or that you have guards in front, after they patch it all in of course.
Since there are humans on all sides of the equation, my guess would be that somebody has misunderstood something. This is almost always the case.
Either the OP misunderstood the devs/gm's response or the devs/gms misunderstood the OP's questions, or possibly everyone does not understand the intent of the game.
It does seem bizare (to me) that an unprotected junk pile in the wilderness cannot be 'protected' by a player...it seems exactly like the sort of thing that would cause conflict. It almost exists to create conflict. But...that doesn't mean that the developer thinks the same way.
I oculdnt be more clear of the situation to the guide i talked to in game, its all in my OP. I then sent a message to the lead developer, he confimed what the guide said, restated that this was infact griefing and against the rules, and that the guides are encouraged to enforce the policy. I also threw int he situation of stalking and killing someone on a KOS list...which is more agregious but still...this is suppose to be a FFA Full Loot PVP game...theres no authority, it was all wiped int he apocolyspe.
I wish it all was a misunderstanding, as this wrecks the whole territorial warfare and control aspect of the game...
Perhaps their definition of griefing will change to a more accepted definition, however in a ffa pvp game, its only griefing if you refuse to get friends to help you, travel in a pack, and refuse to take advantage of this games very generous "running away in ghost form" that allows you to sprint for a few minuests away to respawn, or to go to your safe totem. There really should be no reason that anyone is able to gried, unless they choose to be griefed, as in my situation....which was more harassing towards me, the protector of the junk pile.
Again, the only people who get griefed, especially in this game, make the choice to get griefed.
It sounds cute, and I doubt they will be able to enforce it. 20 times an hour is fairly low in a game with potential for guild warfare. Not to mention griefing shouldn't be quantified but instead qualified. If your getting killed over sheer stupidity, then its your fault, even if it happened thousands of times. I know people these days are emotionally disturbed over death in video games for whatever reason, but there are times where your subjective disgust and anger do not justify action outside of anything the game normally allows. However, if someone is exploiting the game, or harrassing beyond what the game allows to ignore or avoid, then you have a legitimate complaint. If there was a poorly placed spawn, or some other significant design flaw that can be easily exploited, it should be reported, along with the player abusing it, as soon as possible.
It sounds cute, and I doubt they will be able to enforce it. 20 times an hour is fairly low in a game with potential for guild warfare. Not to mention griefing shouldn't be quantified but instead qualified. If your getting killed over sheer stupidity, then its your fault, even if it happened thousands of times. I know people these days are emotionally disturbed over death in video games for whatever reason, but there are times where your subjective disgust and anger do not justify action outside of anything the game normally allows. However, if someone is exploiting the game, or harrassing beyond what the game allows to ignore or avoid, then you have a legitimate complaint. If there was a poorly placed spawn, or some other significant design flaw that can be easily exploited, it should be reported, along with the player abusing it, as soon as possible.
Couldnt agree more.
I am under the firm belief that games without a definde spawn to camp, that griefing is impossible.
This game has such a generous death penalty, that allows you to sprint for minuets (with no loss to energy) and your in ghost form. Just run far away, they will not be able to catch you, or even see where you are going.
If someone like me is in fact controlling territory, find some mercs, friends anyone to help remove me, its the fun in protecting territory. You wont see any QQ's from people like me who die, i am not emotionally distressed over pixel losses, as so many people are these days.
The problem is, its in the eye of the victem, whether its griefing. They were going to scavange that pile even if i had to kill him 30 times, and he was very upset about it. That isnt griefing, that is stupidity. Hell if that happens i might even send a ticket in for the stubborn guy griefing me, i dont want to have to kill him over and over again. I gain nothing out of ...
My fear is that the guides, evenw ith chat logs, will be unable to determine that a person was in fact griefed (though i believe its impossible inthis game). What is stopping someone from claiming grief, knowing that they were going to be repeatedly killed if they kept showing up....
Could i send a ticket in about a bear griefing me? Get the bear banned? Its all ridiculous in a ffa full loot pvp game. I understand it in games where you can spawn camp, but not in a game like this.
I honestly think they are just leaving things open for them to decide based on the situation. On one hand you have to use judgement to make the call as hard and fast rules are too restrictive to be meaningful. On the other hand without rules and too much being open to inturpretation you are destined to have bad decisions or favouritism. . or at least the compaint of that. Sort of like most justice systems.
I honestly think they are just leaving things open for them to decide based on the situation. On one hand you have to use judgement to make the call as hard and fast rules are too restrictive to be meaningful. On the other hand without rules and too much being open to inturpretation you are destined to have bad decisions or favouritism. . or at least the compaint of that. Sort of like most justice systems.
Ahh but a true sandbox, the players make the rules, and then live with the results of their actions.
At first i was botherd by this. With the addition of keeping the safe zones as an option for tribes, and the discussion about making it more difficult to be an evil aligned tribe...with more disadvantages over a good aligned tribe.....im seeing this game less and less as a good pvp sandbox, and more of a pve sim game. Hope thats not the case, but everything im reading out of the forums leads me to believe that the developers dont want this game to be a pvp sandbox. Still a fun game, just now i have to look at it diffrently. Theres really only a disadvantage to being an evil aligned pvp tribe currently. And we dont know how it will effect tribal warfare in the future....being unattackable tribe options.
I think they would have been better off leaving the game as a viable pvp sandbox, and letting its pve crowd learn how to deal with playing in such a setting, its really not difficult when you get the hang of it. However this can of worms is now open. The griefing policy is just a small slice of the pie now.
Sorry, I do not agree with your opinion. I think the developer has got it right. The sandbox is his and so are the rules. If you cannot live by them then find another game to play. You will grief and get banned if you impede the playstyle of others. If you want to define the game differently than Jooki then you are going to lose.
The game is not about PVP and never will be. You can PVP and it will be restrictive. I played both DFO and MO. I hope it never gets to that point where PVP is central to the game. If the resource is so important to you to protect then be prepared to be banned then this is the wrong game for you. I and many others will not lose any sleep.
If the PVP crowd takes over and as usual starts to exploit the game then I hope the dev brings down the hammer and bans quickly and if needed massively. Griefing, camping and ganking should form a very small part of the game that is monitored closely and controlled. That is my opinion about PVP in this game. I like it the way it is.
Sorry, I do not agree with your opinion. I think the developer has got it right. The sandbox is his and so are the rules. If you cannot live by them then find another game to play. You will grief and get banned if you impede the playstyle of others. If you want to define the game differently than Jooki then you are going to lose.
The game is not about PVP and never will be. You can PVP and it will be restrictive. I played both DFO and MO. I hope it never gets to that point where PVP is central to the game. If the resource is so important to you to protect then be prepared to be banned then this is the wrong game for you. I and many others will not lose any sleep.
If the PVP crowd takes over and as usual starts to exploit the game then I hope the dev brings down the hammer and bans quickly and if needed massively. Griefing, camping and ganking should form a small part of the game then is monitored closely and controlled. That is my opinion about PVP in this game. I like it the way it is.
Ahh so a FFA full loot pvp game focusing on tribal warfare and reource control isnt about pvp. That was my mistake on that one.
Sorry, I do not agree with your opinion. I think the developer has got it right. The sandbox is his and so are the rules. If you cannot live by them then find another game to play. You will grief and get banned if you impede the playstyle of others. If you want to define the game differently than Jooki then you are going to lose.
The game is not about PVP and never will be. You can PVP and it will be restrictive. I played both DFO and MO. I hope it never gets to that point where PVP is central to the game. If the resource is so important to you to protect then be prepared to be banned then this is the wrong game for you. I and many others will not lose any sleep.
If the PVP crowd takes over and as usual starts to exploit the game then I hope the dev brings down the hammer and bans quickly and if needed massively. Griefing, camping and ganking should form a very small part of the game that is monitored closely and controlled. That is my opinion about PVP in this game. I like it the way it is.
Ugh, another blind fandog. The sandbox is his, but he has to be careful with the rules he imposes. If the game isn't PvP friendly, he loses that whole crowd of potential players. Basically, this game is a crafting sandbox.. which isn't that interesting after a few months.
Comments
I agree with you fully. you shouldn't HAVE to work around the system like that. But until it's changed etc, that is what people are going to have to do. Snail originally pointed out he's worried someone is going to be able to get him or someone else banned by letting him kill them 20 times. All i was suggesting is to take it one step further. IT boils down to the fact that there is a ruleset everyone has to follow. Some will exploit it to their benefit, and to make sure you arn't caught in the way they are trying to exploit it, is to exploit it in a different way. if you can't kill someone 20 times in a row, only kill them 15 and then get someone else from your tribe to take over. Carry around next to nothing and let them kill you a few times. If the devs are goign to be going by a ratio of 20 kills, then are they going to look at it as a 20:1 ratio? what about if you've killed them 20 times and they've kileld you 5? Do attacks interrupt actions in xsyon? i'm not sure, havn't tested it out, but if it does. wait tillt hey are crafting and smack them once with your lowest damage attack.
All i'm saying is that people that want to be dicks about something have found a way to be dicks, it is your job to find a way to out dick them so to speak to prevent them from ruining how the game was intended to be played.
Yes i do realise that having to "out dick" someone to have the game be the way it was intended is a bit of an unintentional playstyle thing.
Wait, its a PVP game with a limit to how many times you can PVP? From their website:
Jan 1st 2012.
War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
What if I join evil, can I kill people over and over? Thats what evil does. It seems like they want this to be a rpg where you can kill other players, but they dont want you to kill other playes.
+1
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate!?
The ruling is more in the wy of sitting there killing the same person over and over again. you can kill 300 people a day if you want, just not really one person 20 times so to speak. tho i think they should elaborate it in the way of differentiating between ganking someone running along a road and someone actually fighting you.
Since there are humans on all sides of the equation, my guess would be that somebody has misunderstood something. This is almost always the case.
Either the OP misunderstood the devs/gm's response or the devs/gms misunderstood the OP's questions, or possibly everyone does not understand the intent of the game.
It does seem bizare (to me) that an unprotected junk pile in the wilderness cannot be 'protected' by a player...it seems exactly like the sort of thing that would cause conflict. It almost exists to create conflict. But...that doesn't mean that the developer thinks the same way.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Very true for all too many situations in online gaming, and very humorously worded.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So don't guard a junk pile alone. Have your tribe salvage the junk pile as quickly as possible and take turns killing the guy in the process. If you have 5 people you can kill then guy 95 times, each one of you killing 19 times, and not be griefers. 20 times seems like a fair number to me, we'll also have to wait and see what they do if/when they implement pvp servers.
I love the qame but it makes me laugh when people say it's not a pvp game. It has FFA PVP in it. You can call ita crafing game all day but...............it.................has..........FFA PVP......in ..............IT. Thus its a pvp game. They say good and evil is in the game,, well new flash carebears. Evil will kill you over and over till you cry to the devs. If they change the game to much ole jookie will not have a job to long and his lil dream on a game will die. Back on track with the topic though. If i kill you 20 times because you keep coming to my area now is that my fault? If a dog bites you when you try to come near it would you keep going to it? Some people are just that dumd to do it I guess.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
It is a PVP game, its also a deep crafting experience too.
The game is like double booking a raving night and a mosh pit night at your local club.
Both have equal rights to be there, but you know theres gonna be a fight on the dancefloor, especially when choosing tunes to play :P
My tip if your a fellow xsyon crafter, put ur tools in pounches and drop them in camp before you go exploring/gathering that way when ur robbed they'll only steal a few items!
PvP and looting is an element of the game. Doesn't make it a PvP game just because of some random criteria determined by some posters as to what constitutes a PvP game anymore than complaining about it being a "Crafting" game will make PvP disappear. (even tho the crafting nature of Xsyon obviously exceeds the PvP nature.... though I know saying so will draw contention).
Even " The Silence of the Lambs" had some funny elements..doesn't make it a comedy.
let's wait til the game launches correctly and when these issues arise we can flame on about them.. no point in speculating
Read my origional post. This isnt speculation. Read the scenario i laid out, that botht he guides in game and the lead developer confirmed would be treated as griefing.
Confirmed by a guide in game: about 20 times in an hour is griefing. Doesnt matter the reason. All i have to do is keep comming back to you, letting you kill me, and now your a griefer, one step away from getting banned.
Im probably just restating an argument that has gone on at the xyson forums, but Im in the camp of that in a pvp sandbox there should be no rules about greifing. Anyone can be killed for any reason at any time. Ive played darkfall and eve and been on the end of someone who kills you for fun, but I never complained to mommy.
However, I can totally understand how a developer or players would want some moderation. I just dont think FFA full loot games and moderation can coexist. Without evil, there is no good.
I oculdnt be more clear of the situation to the guide i talked to in game, its all in my OP. I then sent a message to the lead developer, he confimed what the guide said, restated that this was infact griefing and against the rules, and that the guides are encouraged to enforce the policy. I also threw int he situation of stalking and killing someone on a KOS list...which is more agregious but still...this is suppose to be a FFA Full Loot PVP game...theres no authority, it was all wiped int he apocolyspe.
I wish it all was a misunderstanding, as this wrecks the whole territorial warfare and control aspect of the game...
Perhaps their definition of griefing will change to a more accepted definition, however in a ffa pvp game, its only griefing if you refuse to get friends to help you, travel in a pack, and refuse to take advantage of this games very generous "running away in ghost form" that allows you to sprint for a few minuests away to respawn, or to go to your safe totem. There really should be no reason that anyone is able to gried, unless they choose to be griefed, as in my situation....which was more harassing towards me, the protector of the junk pile.
Again, the only people who get griefed, especially in this game, make the choice to get griefed.
The only reason i agree with some moderation is that RL interferes with virtual life (or vice versa..lol). At some point people have to log off and resources left unattended...so i believe it is acceptable to claim resources as untouchable ..at least within the bounds of a tribal area. Other wise we'd all just wait until all the tribes players are asleep and deplete the pile of all its shite. ..Tribes would have to post guard shifts in real time to watch over everything.....and I don't need my fun to be a second job...that's why I made the leap into this sandbox game.
As far as the 20 times banned thing for griefing...I think the moderators/GMs will be able to tell shit from silver and make an educated determination on who was griefing who. The 20 times thing was likely just a starting parameter to a system of measuring griefing.
Again, this isnt speculation, not sure how many time i have to repat this...this was confirmed by an in game guide and the lead developer. Read my OP, that was the situation presented to both the guide and the developer, both said it was griefing, as well as stalking someone on your KOS list and killing them repeatedly.
Ill say it again: get friends to travel with, hire mercenaries to kill griefers, find another spot to casually pve, if you get ganked, run far away in ghost form, its a very generous death penalty. There should be NO reasons someone is griefed unless its what they acuallly want, or are too stubborn to figure out a way around it. We dont need daddy GM to come in and make things all better. That or remove the FFA pvp and make it some sort of tibe only affair. The guy that i "griefed" was just being a stubborn jerk, he refused to leave the junk pile i had claimed (see territory CONTROL) i never chased him, i warned him after the first kill why it happend. He kept comming back, had the servers not gone down, i could have been warned and eventually banned for simply enforcing the games territory CONTROL aspect. These are the people that are going to make this policy suck, that and people who will now use it as a weapon. This scenario that was presented wasnt a case of the guide not knowing the situation, it was clearly laid out for him/her, and the rsulting opinion was that i was in fact griefing for maintaining control of territory.
Also, the safe zones are TEMPORARY, thats right temporary. Once they patch in defensive structures ect they go away. When you log off you better be sure that your totems gate is securly locked, or that you have guards in front, after they patch it all in of course.
It sounds cute, and I doubt they will be able to enforce it. 20 times an hour is fairly low in a game with potential for guild warfare. Not to mention griefing shouldn't be quantified but instead qualified. If your getting killed over sheer stupidity, then its your fault, even if it happened thousands of times. I know people these days are emotionally disturbed over death in video games for whatever reason, but there are times where your subjective disgust and anger do not justify action outside of anything the game normally allows. However, if someone is exploiting the game, or harrassing beyond what the game allows to ignore or avoid, then you have a legitimate complaint. If there was a poorly placed spawn, or some other significant design flaw that can be easily exploited, it should be reported, along with the player abusing it, as soon as possible.
Couldnt agree more.
I am under the firm belief that games without a definde spawn to camp, that griefing is impossible.
This game has such a generous death penalty, that allows you to sprint for minuets (with no loss to energy) and your in ghost form. Just run far away, they will not be able to catch you, or even see where you are going.
If someone like me is in fact controlling territory, find some mercs, friends anyone to help remove me, its the fun in protecting territory. You wont see any QQ's from people like me who die, i am not emotionally distressed over pixel losses, as so many people are these days.
The problem is, its in the eye of the victem, whether its griefing. They were going to scavange that pile even if i had to kill him 30 times, and he was very upset about it. That isnt griefing, that is stupidity. Hell if that happens i might even send a ticket in for the stubborn guy griefing me, i dont want to have to kill him over and over again. I gain nothing out of ...
My fear is that the guides, evenw ith chat logs, will be unable to determine that a person was in fact griefed (though i believe its impossible inthis game). What is stopping someone from claiming grief, knowing that they were going to be repeatedly killed if they kept showing up....
Could i send a ticket in about a bear griefing me? Get the bear banned? Its all ridiculous in a ffa full loot pvp game. I understand it in games where you can spawn camp, but not in a game like this.
I honestly think they are just leaving things open for them to decide based on the situation. On one hand you have to use judgement to make the call as hard and fast rules are too restrictive to be meaningful. On the other hand without rules and too much being open to inturpretation you are destined to have bad decisions or favouritism. . or at least the compaint of that. Sort of like most justice systems.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Ahh but a true sandbox, the players make the rules, and then live with the results of their actions.
At first i was botherd by this. With the addition of keeping the safe zones as an option for tribes, and the discussion about making it more difficult to be an evil aligned tribe...with more disadvantages over a good aligned tribe.....im seeing this game less and less as a good pvp sandbox, and more of a pve sim game. Hope thats not the case, but everything im reading out of the forums leads me to believe that the developers dont want this game to be a pvp sandbox. Still a fun game, just now i have to look at it diffrently. Theres really only a disadvantage to being an evil aligned pvp tribe currently. And we dont know how it will effect tribal warfare in the future....being unattackable tribe options.
I think they would have been better off leaving the game as a viable pvp sandbox, and letting its pve crowd learn how to deal with playing in such a setting, its really not difficult when you get the hang of it. However this can of worms is now open. The griefing policy is just a small slice of the pie now.
Sorry, I do not agree with your opinion. I think the developer has got it right. The sandbox is his and so are the rules. If you cannot live by them then find another game to play. You will grief and get banned if you impede the playstyle of others. If you want to define the game differently than Jooki then you are going to lose.
The game is not about PVP and never will be. You can PVP and it will be restrictive. I played both DFO and MO. I hope it never gets to that point where PVP is central to the game. If the resource is so important to you to protect then be prepared to be banned then this is the wrong game for you. I and many others will not lose any sleep.
If the PVP crowd takes over and as usual starts to exploit the game then I hope the dev brings down the hammer and bans quickly and if needed massively. Griefing, camping and ganking should form a very small part of the game that is monitored closely and controlled. That is my opinion about PVP in this game. I like it the way it is.
Ahh so a FFA full loot pvp game focusing on tribal warfare and reource control isnt about pvp. That was my mistake on that one.
Whats next? linear quest lines?
Ugh, another blind fandog. The sandbox is his, but he has to be careful with the rules he imposes. If the game isn't PvP friendly, he loses that whole crowd of potential players. Basically, this game is a crafting sandbox.. which isn't that interesting after a few months.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
No, your mistake is that you think about Xsyon as a "FFA full loot pvp game focusing on tribal warfare and resource control".
It isn't.
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